Author Richard Price on 'Lazarus Man' (Get Lit)

Summary

All Of It: Author Richard Price on 'Lazarus Man'

Hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, January 31, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, acclaimed author and screenwriter Richard Price joins the show to discuss his latest novel, "Lazarus Man." Known for his vivid portrayals of New York City life in works like The Wanderers and Lush Life, Price delves into the intricate layers of his new book set against the backdrop of East Harlem in 2008.

Overview of 'Lazarus Man'

"Lazarus Man" centers around the aftermath of a catastrophic tenement building collapse in East Harlem, resulting in numerous casualties and missing persons. The narrative intricately weaves the lives of four central characters—Mary, Felix, Royal, and Anthony—each profoundly impacted by the tragedy. The novel explores themes of survival, community resilience, and the quest for second chances within the vibrant tapestry of Harlem.

Richard Price's Inspiration and Setting (00:38 - 07:36)

Richard Price recounts a personal experience that significantly influenced "Lazarus Man." Reflecting on the day a building near his residence at 129th Street collapsed, Price describes the visceral impact it had on him:

“The boom, it just went right through my body.” (02:26)

He spent hours observing the unfolding chaos, capturing small, poignant moments amidst the disaster. This firsthand experience provided authentic material for his novel, allowing him to portray the community's response with genuine insight.

Price chose to set the novel in 2008 to avoid the tumultuous political climate of the early 2020s, aiming instead to focus on the human and communal aspects of the story. He notes:

“I didn’t want to deal with a lot of political moments of the moment... It was just a time.” (05:54)

Moving to Harlem in 2008 opened his eyes to the neighborhood's unique dynamics. Price emphasizes the multifaceted nature of New York City, stating:

“There are a billion New York Cities... I moved to Harlem, and it's like I moved to the city of Harlem where I'd never lived before.” (07:30)

Character Development

Mary: The Community Affairs Cop (12:35 - 15:08)

Mary, one of the novel's protagonists, is a dedicated community affairs officer navigating the complexities of East Harlem. Price explores her role in bridging the gap between law enforcement and the community:

“Her job, basically, is to calm people down, and she gets paid for that.” (13:29)

Mary's personal struggles, including her impending divorce and challenging relationships with her children, add depth to her character. Price intentionally crafted her as a domestic figure within the police force to diverge from typical crime fiction stereotypes.

Felix: The Upstate Photographer (15:08 - 18:56)

Felix, a newcomer to Harlem and a passionate photographer, serves as the novel's lens into the neighborhood's evolving landscape. Price's fascination with street photography is evident in Felix's character, reflecting the transient yet impactful moments captured through his lens.

When discussing Felix, Price shares his admiration for street photographers:

“I love street photography... James Van Der Zee, Joseph Rodriguez...” (16:48)

Felix's journey mirrors the changes in Harlem, capturing the last echoes of a bygone era as the community faces gentrification and shifting dynamics.

Royal: The Funeral Home Director (19:09 - 22:14)

Royal, the funeral home director, offers a unique perspective on life and death within the community. Price immersed himself in the lives of Harlem's funeral directors to authentically portray Royal's character. He explains:

“I hung out with black funeral directors in Harlem... I believe in osmosis.” (19:24)

Royal's interactions provide both graphic and humorous insights into his profession, humanizing a role often shrouded in solemnity.

Anthony: The Miracle Survivor (23:37 - 32:44)

Anthony, the "Lazarus Man," emerges as a pivotal character whose miraculous survival sparks a transformation in his life. Price delves into Anthony's psychological journey post-rescue, exploring themes of rebirth and self-discovery.

When discussing Anthony's miraculous survival, Price remarks:

“He's really good speaking to people, speaking to people. Really feels like he's been reborn.” (24:23)

Anthony's interactions and evolving relationships underscore the novel's exploration of personal redemption and the complexities of human connections.

Writing Process and Style (09:10 - 15:08)

Price elaborates on his writing methodology, particularly his approach to developing multiple characters and perspectives. He draws inspiration from ensemble films and emphasizes the importance of rhythm and balance in his narrative structure:

“It's like a Robert Altman film... constantly shifting... ships passing in the night.” (11:12)

He acknowledges critiques regarding his writing style, distinguishing his prose from traditional screenwriting:

“I wrote four books before I wrote my first screenplay... that's how I like to write. It goes fast.” (11:04)

Peripheral Characters and Narrative Structure (26:36 - 28:16)

In response to audience questions, Price discusses his creation of peripheral characters—those who add color and depth to the narrative without necessarily driving the main plot. He believes in giving these characters recurring appearances to enrich the story's fabric:

“Give them as much life as you can for the brief time that they're on the stage.” (28:16)

Examples include recurring figures like the woman claiming familial ties to public figures, adding layers of realism and humor to the novel.

Themes of Relationships and Rebuilding (28:43 - 31:15)

A prevailing theme in "Lazarus Man" is the fragility and resilience of personal relationships amidst chaos. Each main character grapples with their romantic and familial ties, mirroring the broader community's efforts to rebuild after the tragedy.

Price reflects on the authenticity of these relationships:

“It's just life... you live long enough, you've been in all kinds of scenarios.” (30:22)

The characters' struggles with love and connection serve as microcosms of the neighborhood's healing process.

Audience Interaction (25:33 - 32:44)

The episode features an engaging Q&A segment where listeners pose questions about Price's writing techniques and character development. Highlights include:

• Run-On Sentences: Price candidly discusses his tendency towards long, unbroken sentences, attributing it to his natural writing flow rather than a deliberate stylistic choice.

  “It's like my mind is a run on sentence.” (25:46)

• Peripheral Characters: He elaborates on the necessity of recurring peripheral characters to maintain narrative continuity and enrich the storytelling.

• Anthony's Father: Addressing Anthony's father, Price describes him as a complex character embodying conflicting identities and societal roles:

  “He's an Irish Italian, pugnacious race warrior... you cannot be black by connection.” (31:21)

  This exploration underscores themes of identity and belonging within the multicultural landscape of Harlem.

Conclusion

Richard Price's "Lazarus Man" offers a nuanced exploration of community, survival, and personal redemption set against the vibrant and dynamic backdrop of East Harlem. Through intricate character development and authentic storytelling, Price captures the essence of a neighborhood grappling with tragedy and striving for renewal. This episode of All Of It provides listeners with a deep dive into the creative process behind the novel, highlighting Price's commitment to portraying the multifaceted nature of New York City life.

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For those interested in further exploring "Lazarus Man," you can engage with the All Of It Book Club selections and join the vibrant discussions facilitated by WNYC.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Ad]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name youe Price Tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[Richard Price]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Author and screenwriter Richard Price has spent his career capturing snapshots of New York City in novels like the Wanderers, Lush Life and and now his latest novel, Lazarus Man. It was our choice for our January get lit with all of it Book Club. Richard's new novel is set in East Harlem in 2008. It tells the story of the aftermath of a tenement building collapse that leaves many dead, injured or missing. Central to the novel are four characters whose lives are affected by this tragedy. There's Mary, a community affairs cop who becomes determined to locate a missing resident of the collapsed building. She's also in the midst of a divorce. She's not really sure what she wants. Then there's Felix, a newcomer to the neighborhood and a photographer who is on the scene capturing the aftermath of the collapse. Also on the scene is Royal, a funeral home director who uses this moment to advertise his services. And finally there is Anthony, a man who was pulled out of the rubble of the building more than 24 hours after the collapse. Miraculously, he, he is still alive. Lazarus man is a book about second chances and a colorful portrait of life in East Harlem. Richard Price joined us for a sold out event at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library. Let's listen now to our conversation of our January get lit with all of it book club event. You told us you came on the show earlier this month and you said that there was a building collapse that was near where you lived and you told us you spent a day just watching. What were you watching for?

[Richard Price]

I lived on, I do live on 129th and the building collapses on 116th, two blocks east. And the boom, it just went right through my body. And I don't know, I just went there and the building already had collapsed. I was, it couldn't get too close. But I spent a couple of hours just watching the crowds and you know, that whole municipal block party, you know, EMS and fdny, ABC and dce, it was just, and just listening to people and watching, you know, how people moved and they would do this thing that you couldn't see what you're doing because of the rise of, I want to say detritus, but you know, just the ash that was coming up. But people had their phones out like this. Like it was like they were hailing a cab. And by reflex, people, everybody with a cell phone's a photojournalist and. But by reflex, you know, because we do this now, they were going like this, like a searchlight looking for an image. I'm just small things. I just focus on small things. And after the. That day, I found a video that somebody took. I tracked down the guy who made the video. He lived right across the street and he was an emt, but he wasn't working that day. And I just got his eyewitness. Then it went to the cops. What was their experience that day? I just went to anybody who would have me, which is my usual mo.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you have your author hat on at that point?

[Richard Price]

Not really. But I told him I'm writing a novel and I am a card carrying novelist. So it wasn't like I'm thinking about writing my first book, you know, so you know that. But I also had friends that, you know, there was a couple of cops I knew one of them was supervising, looking for people that they could, you know, you have a building like that, it's maybe you have 12 apartments and the rent rolls say there are 30 people or 40 people. But a lot of people, you don't know who else was in that building. You don't know who left before. You don't know if they had their daughter and granddaughter sleeping over because the daughter had a fight with her husband or boyfriend or whatever. Somebody, the person on the rent rolls actually died three years earlier. But they didn't want to tell the landlord and all their relatives moved in. You don't know who was there. It's like ghost tenants. It's like double the number on the rolls. And now you gotta find all these people. And you look at old CCC cameras, okay, you see people leaving the building beforehand, but then you see people going in right before now they're now coming out. And just the whole thing, how a neighborhood, it was just how a neighborhood copes, how people cope.

[Alison Stewart]

Why did you want to set it in 2008?

[Richard Price]

That's a good question. I didn't want to deal with a lot of political moments of the moment. I didn't want to write about Obama, I didn't want to write about Trump. I didn't want to write about black lives matter, blue lives matter. I just. And 2008 was the year that I moved to Harlem. So. And the Harlem that was is no longer the harm that I saw in 2008 is no longer there. It was just a time. It's just by instinct. I just didn't want to deal with politics. I didn't want to deal with current events. I didn't want to be a newspaper.

[Alison Stewart]

You told me that when you moved to Harlem in 2008 that you felt like you had a lot to learn. What did you feel you had to learn about the neighborhood?

[Richard Price]

Every time New York City, if you move five blocks, you're in a different city. I forgot who told me this, but they said, or I read it in the paper. Somebody said they moved literally five blocks away from where they lived. And after about a month, they came back to that five block area because they needed to use the laundromat. And somebody said, you're back. You know, I mean, it's like this, well, whose New York City is it? Louis Auchenslotz's New York City? Is it my New York City? Is it Spike Lee's New York City? Is it Whit Stillman's New York City? I mean, there's a billion New York Cities, and, yes, so I moved to Harlem, and it's like I moved to the city of Harlem where I'd never lived before.

[Alison Stewart]

What about the city of Harlem? Did you know that you had to get right in Lazarus, man?

[Richard Price]

Oh, well, yeah, everything. I mean, not everything. It just. Well, one big difference. In all the other places I've lived in Manhattan, you're on the street, somebody's coming the other way. You don't make eye contact. In Harlem, you make eye contact. You nod your head, hello. Somebody talks to you, you speak back. It's rude. You know, you're passing somebody. I just remember the first day that we moved in on 118th street in Atlantic. I was walking. Sorry. To the end of the block to cross the street, and there was a woman there, and she had a walker, and she was there every day and being, like, from different neighborhoods, I didn't look at her. And this woman, right after we passed, she said, good morning. You're supposed to say, and I just elevated. Oh, good morning, Good morning. How are you? Can I marry you? You know, I had to learn manners. Oddly enough, people think of Harlem is, like, rough or its reputation is rough, but I have to learn manners. I had to. This is the most engaging neighborhood I've ever lived in in terms of eye contact and people's being willing. It's Like Dublin. You just say hi. And every. They tell you the story of the Iliad in Gaelic. It was. You talk to people on the street, you know. You know, it's different.

[Alison Stewart]

With a head nodded.

[Richard Price]

It's absolutely. You are on the street, they're on the street. You engage. You know, this isn't Gramercy Park. This isn't even the West Village. This isn't Dumbo, Soho, Moho, you know, it's. This is. I mean, I walk from my house across the street to get a. To get a carton of milk. I come back with, like, you know, six scenes for a play.

[Alison Stewart]

The four characters in the book, Anthony, Mary, Felix and Royal. Who was the hardest to write?

[Richard Price]

Anthony. I mean, I don't know how to answer this quickly without telling people who each is. The four characters. One guy's a funeral director. That's. Funeral director is failing because people are not dying to get in. One woman is a community affairs officer based in East Harlem, who's there, you know, to talk to people and work with missing persons. One guy is a photographer who lives right across the street, is a kid from upstate New York. And the fourth character, Anthony, who. It gets trapped in this. In the collapse. And like, two days later, after the cadaver dogs have been through and everybody went over that rubble with a fine tooth comb and a telescope, periscope, microscope, stethoscope, all of a sudden, they find him and it's a miracle. And he asks. It's about what's going on in his mind after he's found. And I don't want to say any more, you know, because we'll save it for the end. He's the Ajita guy. I mean, he's, you know, angel and devil shoulders.

[Alison Stewart]

What was your process on deciding when to switch between each character's point of view?

[Richard Price]

I just developed a rhythm of just. I mean, Spike Lees was interested in the rights to the film, rights to this book. And I could see it because I do the right thing. It was a drifting. It's an ensemble. It is no hero. You know, there's no. It's just people living, and you're shifting from one character to another character. Also, like a Robert Altman film, like Nashville or mash, you know, you're just constantly shifting. Everybody's like ships passing in the night. And, you know, I got to a point, I just kept people abreast of things. They don't know each other, or they marginally know each other, or they get to know each other, or they barely interact, but it's four perspectives, and each person's story kind of climbs in parallels. And I like to just go back and forth a lot. That being said, one of the things that I hate is when I get reviews. Well, you know, his screenwriter skills were at play. I was writing like this. I wrote four books before I wrote my first screenplay. It's like, no, that's me. You know, it's not what I've learned as a screenwriter. You know, that's how I like to write. It goes fast.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk about Mary. She's a cop. She works in the public information office. What did you want to explore about the relationship between cops and the neighborhood?

[Richard Price]

And specifically through Mary, her, what they call the rabbi. Her rabbi, which is her mentor, figured out he's going to assign her to community affairs. You just go where people get pissed off and there's danger of things escalating. And that's her job. People know her. She knows people. She knows the neighborhood. She's Irish. She doesn't differentiate between races of people. She never. She never makes things worse. And her job, basically is to calm people down, and she gets paid for that.

[Alison Stewart]

We get a little taste of her personal life, and she and her husband, who she separated from, and he confides in her that the kids think that she is afraid of them.

[Richard Price]

Well, she never wanted to have kids, but, you know, like, you know, I'm supposed to have kids because I'm a woman and, you know, I just want to write about a cop where it's not like copy, you know, not like tough street wisdom or capturing somebody or chasing somebody. I mean, God forbid somebody even touches their gun. It's about as domestic as I can make a copy in any book I've ever written because I don't want to be called a crime writer ever.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, why not?

[Richard Price]

Because the thing about genres is they have a formula. And so in genres, there's nothing wrong with genres. There's fantastic writers in every genre. But in a certain type of book, this happens and this happens, then this happens. And it's a. It's. It's a pattern that's mostly obeyed. And it's like it's not enough, you know, I mean, look at Dashiell Hammett or Raymond Chandler or Octavia Butler in science fiction. I mean. I mean, a lot of people feel like genres are bull because, you know, it's literature. But it feels to me like a cubby hole.

[Alison Stewart]

Felix. Felix. Why did you want to make Felix a photographer?

[Richard Price]

Because I love street photography, and he's this upstate kid and he's living in a brownstone back in the day. This is another reason why I made it 2008. Back in the day, these brownstones were cut up into like many apartments. And like the brownstone next to mine, when I moved in, there was like 10 guys living there. They each had like a kitchenette and, you know, they hung out. And then all of a sudden real estate wants what it wants, you know, and one by one, it was the last time like a brownstone was used like that. When you can get so much money, if you get them out of there and sort of rejig this place. And he knows that these guys who live in the building with him, I mean, most of them are gray market people, like burning CDs with somebody or make somebody dies in the culture. But by the next day they sell them T shirts on the street, you know, Michael Jackson with angel wings. They're hustlers. They're hustlers. They're not illegals. They're just in the gray market. You know, you gotta be inventive to survive. And it was a snapshot at the end of an era of a community and a building. It's hard to find a building like that.

[Alison Stewart]

What photographers do you like? Do you like Ouija? Do you like Elliot?

[Richard Price]

Yeah, Ouija's the cliche, but I love Ouija. Yeah, but. Oh God, so many. It's like, like when I was, when I was in 11th grade, my quote unquote guidance counselor get making a profile of me said, what was the last book you read? And I read so voraciously that I said Native Son by Richard Wright. And she wrote it down. It was one of 50 books. The next year as a senior, she said, what was the last book that you read? I said, native Son. And she said, you're a liar. You said that last year. I said, I'll get it a life, you know, how long do you have to live? Give you an hour. But anyways, it was like that. You asked me a question like, who's your favorite photographer? I mean, there's so many different types of photographers. Bruce Davidson, the German portraitist, August Sander. I always mess up his name. I want to say Mikimoto. He's a Japanese photographer who does 24 hour exposed light on a theater screen or on ocean Sugimoto. I was gonna say Mikimoto. Oh, no. Oh, that's a guy that sells pearls. Anyway, but so I'm Malik Sibaday, who was a Malian, like society portraitist, had worked out of a studio. James Van Der Zee, this guy Joseph Rodriguez who did all these shots, he was driving a cab at 4:40 in the morning in the late 80s. He would go past when the leather bars were closing down and you know, and the drag bars were closing down. He would do portraits of the people hailing him.

[Alison Stewart]

Cool.

[Richard Price]

And he didn't get his head handed to him. I mean, just. There you go. Oh, and my favorite photographer is Richard Wright, who photographed Native Son.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's talk about royal and funeral directors. There's a lot of great graphic, sometimes funny details about being a funeral director. What research did you do into it? What did you learn?

[Richard Price]

I hung out with black funeral directors in Harlem, traditional funeral directors, and got a feel, you know, some guys were more inviting me into their world and you know, other people were very paranoid or protective. Like, who is this guy? He says he's writing a book. What do I know? He might be working for the, the health department. I got pretty friendly with a couple of guys and you know, just. I believe in osmosis. I believe in, you know, the thing is when the boilerplate thing you learn in a creative writing class is write about what you know. But what do you know when you're young, you know, you know, and I would be, you know, Thomas McGuain. This is things I always say. Thomas McGuain said, I've done a lot of horrible things in my life, but I never taught creative writing. Well, I did. I mean, I just, I lost my train of thought. That's our question again.

[Alison Stewart]

I just asked you what you learned from funeral directors.

[Richard Price]

Oh, so you know, so what I learned my first four books I wrote myself into a corner because it was all self referential. Every, every character was a stand in for me. So hey, guess what? I'm 30 and I got four novels out and my experience is like elephant ears leaving a casino bust. And that's why I went to do screenplays for eight years, just to cleanse my palate. And I had enough grapefruit to sorbet and I came back and when Clockers happened, I saw a housing project in Jersey City that was built at the same time. But this is the hide of the crack epidemic and it was like a tiger cage and it freaked me out and had my own drug problems in the past and all of a sudden I wanted to learn. So write about what you know. I don't know that much. Well, go out. What are you interested in? Go out, hang out, learn that. And that becomes part of what you know, what else what else, what else, what else? You know, it's like I always say, it's like trying to empty the ocean with a colander. You know, it's like there's a whole world out there. You know, it's not about, you know, seeing your parents at Thanksgiving and, you know, being happy, but by the second day you were in a rage and the third day your girlfriend dumped you and then you couldn't wait to get back to the dorm. So, I mean, that's the story. I got 40 stories like that.

[Alison Stewart]

You're listening to my conversation with author Richard Price about his new novel Lazarus Man. It was our January get lit with all of it book club selection. We'll hear more from Richard and hear some questions from our audience after a quick break.

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[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We continue my conversation with Richard Price, author of the new book Lazarus Man. It was our January get lit with all of it book club selection. Thanks to our partners at the New York Public Library, 3,273 New Yorkers were able to check out an E Copy to read along with us. As always, our audience had great questions for our author. We'll get to some of those in just a minute. But first, here's more of my conversation with Richard Price. All right, we're at Anthony. There's so much we can discuss about Anthony. He gets pulled out of the rubble. He finds he's really good speaking to people, speaking to people.

[Richard Price]

Really feels like he's been reborn, you know?

[Alison Stewart]

Does he believe what he's saying?

[Richard Price]

Read the book.

[Alison Stewart]

I did. Twice. So there. What do you think? What do you think?

[Richard Price]

What do I think? Does he believe what he said? Yeah, I think he believes what he's saying. But that doesn't mean everything is true.

[Alison Stewart]

Why are people so moved by his words? Even if someone might consider his words trite?

[Richard Price]

Well, you know, some of the reviews I thought, what I wrote for him to say, he becomes sort of like a motivational speaker, and he speaks at funerals, and he speaks at Stop the Violence rallies. And I thought I wrote beautiful speeches for him. And then the reviews came out. He says, well, there's a genius, because Price purposefully put all these trite blah blahs in there. What are you talking about? I brought myself to tears. You know, trite. You're trite. Where's your novel?

[Alison Stewart]

Let's take some audience questions. Let me see if I've got. There we go. I see a gentleman in the back.

[Richard Price]

Yes, sir. His hand in the back there on the right.

[Alison Stewart]

I do. And he's got a microphone. There we are. Hello, sir.

[Richard Price]

I used to be a school teacher. I don't need a microphone, I don't think.

[Alison Stewart]

Can you talk a little bit about.

[Richard Price]

The beauty and the danger of run on sentences? No, period. I mean, my first, like. Like my. My. My first paragraph is one sentence. And I didn't realize it was one sentence, you know, because it just kept coming to me. Go, go on, go on. You know, throw a semicolon in there. Or wait, wait, colon. I don't know, comma, what, you know, and it just kept going. And I'm not saying it was. I don't want to be romantic about it or magical about it, but I wasn't purposefully trying for a run on style. It just happened because it's like my mind is a run on sentence.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, I see Simon back there.

[Richard Price]

Great, thank you. You create these. I'm going to call them peripheral characters. They don't necessarily move the story, but they color the narrative. Like Ellis and Tony G. The kid, the guy on the stoop. And I'm wondering, do they come to you, like in whole cloth? Because you give these vivid descriptions of them, you know, first of all, in a way, almost every character is peripheral. I mean, because, I mean, there are four key characters that you follow. But I mean, the whole book is matter of fact, you know, and in the process of writing, okay, he lives. Felix lives in the building One of the last kitchenette SROs in that section of Harlem. I mean, all of a sudden these guys are on the stoop and once again. And they're talking and. But the thing with peripheral characters, just don't put them in once because then it feels really like peripheral. I mean, return to them like there's a woman who claims to be Prince's mother holding court on a street. I mean, I had to come back to her and second time I came back to her, it's the same lady, but now she's claiming to be Senator Obama's sister. I mean just peripheral is twice for me. But also the characters. I mean, give them as much life as you can for the brief time that they're on the stage.

[Alison Stewart]

Thanks so much. I wanted to ask about. You know, it seems like all four characters struggle throughout the book with their. With their romantic relationships in different ways and they're kind of collapsing and rebuilding. And you know, even Felix has this very short relationship with this woman he kind of meets casually. So I wanted to know what the. You know, that was kind of a theme throughout the book. And I wonder if you could talk more about that decision and what that represents it in the book.

[Richard Price]

Well, it's like if Mary struggles, she's having an affair with another cop, but she's kind of half living with her soon to be divorced husband. Then I thought I wanted Anthony when he. When he gets out, good things start happening to him and he meets this woman who listens, hears. All of a sudden he goes, well, what's. Then I started thinking, well, what. What's Felix up to? I mean, sometimes these things just evolve on the page. I mean it's not magic, like I said, but one character's spending a night with. With another person begets like. Is rondelet a right word? All four of them are doing stuff that night with other people, you know, of a. Not exact nature, but similar nature. You know, it just evolves like that. It's like bebop, you know, I mean it sounds like scatter, but there is pattern beneath the scatter. One thing, I mean one thing I haven't seen in your work earlier to this extent is. And this comes from like the right. What you know, or research what you don't know. A whole so many really funny, sad human bad sex scenes or scenes of people sort of trying and deciding not to have sex. Just the negotiations around sex were just. I don't think I've ever seen it that real and that like hilarious and tragic comic frequently. And I Was wondering. You can't like, ask people about, I don't know, like how. Where is the.

[Alison Stewart]

Where does the awkward trouble.

[Richard Price]

Getting laid? Is that what you're saying? Is it just stuff you pick up as you age or like, I mean, listen, what is this, National Enquirer? No, I mean, listen, you live long enough, you've been in all kinds of scenarios. It's not like I have to go out and Google bad sex or great sex or like, stop start sex or almost sex or did I have a good time last night sex, you know, it's just life, you know, and you just, you know, listen, I'm 30 years old now. I've lived a long life. And Sidney, the more life you live, the more you know, just by osmosis, just. You don't even have to think about it. It's all in your head. And what you forget is not that important.

[Alison Stewart]

We've got time probably for one or two more questions. Can you talk a little bit about Anthony's father?

[Richard Price]

I'm sorry, say again? Can you talk a little bit about Anthony's father and his role in the novel? Can I talk about Anthony's father? Anthony Carter? He's, like I said, he's in his early 40s and of a mixed marriage. His mother's from black funeral home money in the South. His father is an Irish Italian, pugnacious race warrior. Like, he's the guy that wants credit for, you know, for getting punched by a cop or hit by a cop at a rally. He, he's the loud liberator of a race that's not his. All of which is to say, no matter, like I said, no matter how many rallies you show up, no, no matter how many fists you raise in solidarity or how many creative writing classes you teach in prison, you know you're white. You know when the car gets stopped, you're white. You cannot be black by, by connection. Just because you, you have mixed race kids and a black wife does not make you anything but white. You might know more than the average bear for Caucasian, but you know, because of your experience. But you're white. Oh, by the way, he teaches African American history.

[Alison Stewart]

Of course.

[Richard Price]

That's like Dalton.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with Richard Price, author of the new book Lazarus Man. It was our January get lit with all of it book club selection.

[Richard Price]

I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7. Our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.