Best Picture Nominee: Conclave

Summary

All Of It Podcast Summary: Best Picture Nominee – Conclave
Host: Alison Stewart
Release Date: February 17, 2025
Guests:

• Stanley Tucci – Actor
• Edward Berger – Director

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Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC, the spotlight is on Conclave, a compelling film nominated for Best Picture at the Academy Awards. The episode delves deep into the artistry behind the film, featuring insightful conversations with Stanley Tucci, who portrays Cardinal Aldo Bellini, and Edward Berger, the film's director known for his Oscar-winning work on All Quiet on the Western Front. Together, they explore the intricate process of bringing the intense political and spiritual drama of selecting a new Pope to the silver screen.

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Film Overview

Conclave presents a gripping narrative set within the Vatican, where the sudden death of the Pope plunges the Catholic Church into a fraught conclave. A diverse group of cardinals, each representing different factions and ideologies, converge to elect the next pontiff. The film masterfully intertwines themes of tradition, conservatism, progressivism, and personal conviction, all while maintaining the tension of a political thriller.

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Behind the Scenes with Stanley Tucci and Edward Berger

Starting Conclave

Director Edward Berger discusses the genesis of Conclave, highlighting the meticulous effort required to bring the project to fruition. He emphasizes the importance of timing and the challenge of securing Stanley Tucci for the role:

“It became timely right now. So it's the perfect timing, actually, for both of them. ... I needed him to be in the film. And so sometimes, you know, you've scheduled your movies around fantastic people like Stanley.”
[03:16]

Source Material and Inspirations

Stanley Tucci shares his connection to the source material, Conclave by Robert Harris, and how the script resonated with him amidst contemporary political climates:

“I read Conclave about four years ago. ... a couple of years later, the script came to me, and I was more than thrilled, also more than thrilled that Edward was directing it.”
[04:09]

Character Dynamics: Bellini and Lawrence

Alison Stewart probes into the relationship between Tucci's character, Cardinal Bellini, and Ralph Fiennes' Cardinal Lawrence. Tucci elaborates on the foundation of their friendship:

“Sometimes you may have different views politically ... but morally, they are twins, I think. ... That's what brings them together.”
[05:18]

Balancing Tone and Performance

When discussing the interplay between the film’s tone and his portrayal of Bellini, Tucci underscores the importance of aligning with the director's vision:

“Your job as an actor is to fit into the story perfectly and to tell that story the way it's meant to be told or the way the director has chosen for it to be told.”
[07:09]

Exploring Themes of Self-Doubt and Trust

The conversation delves into the central themes of self-discovery and trust. Tucci reflects on Bellini's internal struggles:

“He thinks he doesn't want it because he thinks he's purer than he is. But we all do.”
[09:43]

Director Berger expands on the significance of doubt within the conclave's decision-making process:

“The next Pope, I hope someone who has doubts ... invites discussion and invites a discourse with other.”
[10:44]

Personal Reflections on Religion

Tucci offers a candid look at his relationship with the Catholic Church, shaped by his upbringing and personal beliefs:

“I was raised Catholic ... but by the age of 18, 19, I chose not to go to church any longer. I don't think that to me, I'm not a religious person, and that's my choice.”
[12:29]

Filming in Rome: Capturing Authenticity

Berger discusses the decision to film Conclave in Rome, highlighting how the city's authentic atmosphere enriched the film's narrative:

“Rome became such an important element to the shooting and to the atmosphere of the film. ... the humanity became the main driving force for the film.”
[14:31]

Contemporary Relevance and Political Intrigue

In light of recent global political shifts, Tucci connects the film's portrayal of political maneuvering within the Church to broader societal dynamics:

“We're on a sort of precipice politically in America and throughout the world... a lot of that communication because of technology is polluted, distorted and unreal.”
[15:49]

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Notable Quotes

• Stanley Tucci on Friendship and Morality:
  “Sometimes you may have different views politically ... but morally, they are twins, I think.”
  [05:18]

• Edward Berger on the Role of Doubt:
  “The next Pope, I hope someone who has doubts ... invites discussion and invites a discourse with other.”
  [10:44]

• Stanley Tucci on Acting Alignment:
  “Your job as an actor is to fit into the story perfectly and to tell that story the way it's meant to be told...”
  [07:09]

• Stanley Tucci on Personal Beliefs:
  “I was raised Catholic ... I'm not a religious person, and that's my choice.”
  [12:29]

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Conclusion

The episode offers a profound exploration of Conclave, highlighting its intricate portrayal of faith, power, and personal integrity. Through the perspectives of Stanley Tucci and Edward Berger, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the film's thematic depth and its resonance with contemporary issues. As Conclave continues to garner accolades, this conversation underscores its significance as a culturally impactful cinematic work.

Stay tuned to All Of It as Alison Stewart prepares to welcome Oscar-nominated actor Mikey Madison to discuss her role in another Best Picture nominee, Honora.

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Episode Teaser

After an insightful discussion on Conclave, Alison Stewart previews the next segment featuring Mikey Madison, who will delve into her portrayal of a tenacious sex worker in the Best Picture nominee Honora. Listeners are encouraged to stay tuned for more engaging conversations on culture and its creators.

Transcript

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[Stanley Tucci]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Today we're sharing some of our recent conversations about a few of the best picture nominees at this year's Academy Awards. Let's get into our next conversation about Conclave, which has been nominated for best Picture. Actor Stanley Tucci and director Edward Berger joined us to discuss how they made the election of a new Pope feel like a thriller. So let's get into my conversation with Edward Berger and Stanley Tucci. In the new film Conclave, the Pope has died and a group of cardinals are convened to select a new one. Factions are formed on papal and political lines. One candidate represents staunch traditionalism. Another is more center right conservative. Another espouses homophobic views. And one newcomer enters the fray with exceptionally liberal views. Actor Stanley Tucci plays Aldo Bellini, an American cardinal who champions progressivism. He says he doesn't really want the petition. Until he does. Here's a clip from early in the film to which Tucci's character, Cardinal Bellini, is speaking to Cardinal Dean Lawrence, played by Ralph, finds Father Bellini.

[Stanley Tucci]

Aldo, Am I the last?

[Edward Berger]

Not quite. How are you?

[Stanley Tucci]

Oh, well, you know, fairly dreadful.

[Ralph Fiennes]

Have you seen the papers? Apparently it's already decided it's to be me.

[Edward Berger]

And I happen to agree with them.

[Stanley Tucci]

What if I don't want it? No sane man would want the papacy.

[Edward Berger]

Some of our colleagues seem to want it.

[Stanley Tucci]

What if I know in my heart that I am not worthy?

[Edward Berger]

You are more worthy than any of us.

[Stanley Tucci]

I'm not.

[Edward Berger]

Well, then tell your supporters not to vote for you to pass the chalice.

[Ralph Fiennes]

And it'll go to him.

[Stanley Tucci]

And I could never live with myself.

[Alison Stewart]

Conclave is nominated for the Critics Choice Award with 11 nominations. It's also nominated for several Golden Globes, including Best Picture. It's now available to stream on Peacock. Please welcome Stanley Tucci. Hi, Stanley.

[Stanley Tucci]

Hi. How are you?

[Alison Stewart]

I'm doing well, thank you. And director Edward Berger, who won an Oscar for Best International Film for All Quiet on the Western Front. Nice to meet you, Edward.

[Edward Berger]

Hey there.

[Alison Stewart]

Hey there, Edward. You started thinking about Conclave around Conclave. Excuse me? Around the time or even a little bit before All Quiet on the Western Front. You said that went quickly. All Quiet Conclave took a while. What took a while? Why did it take a while?

[Edward Berger]

Some movies sort of have a dynamic, and they just happen quickly. And All Quiet was sort of, you know, a timely film at the time. And this became timely right now. So it's the perfect timing, actually, for both of them. It's just, you know, getting the script right, finding wonderful actors like Stanley Tucci. He wasn't available for years, and I tried to find, you know, like, followed him around, and then I just. I needed him to be in the film. And so. And sometimes, you know, you've scheduled your movies around fantastic people like Stanley.

[Alison Stewart]

So Stanley, you weren't around for years.

[Stanley Tucci]

It said, the man is a pathological liar, but I love him.

[Alison Stewart]

This is going to be interesting. Then you read the book La Fortuna. When did you hear about the film adaptation?

[Stanley Tucci]

Oh, well, yes, I read. Excuse me. Read Conclave about four years ago. It was during the last election, so I remember very distinctly when I read it. And I was sort of sequestered in Spain making a television series, and I just loved it because I loved Robert Harris's writing. And anyway, a couple years later, the script came to me, and I was more than thrilled, also more than thrilled that Edward was directing it. And then all of the pieces came together, as Edward said, because I think the timing was absolutely appropriate because it mirrors a lot of what's happening in our world politically.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm sorry, I said you read. You were filming La Fortuna.

[Stanley Tucci]

Yeah, I was filming La Fortuna.

[Alison Stewart]

Sorry.

[Stanley Tucci]

That's all right. That's all right. I didn't want to correct you.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, they appreciate it, but please do. If you, you know, you never know. You know, when we meet Bellini, early on, he's the Cardinal Dean's person. He's this guy, as we heard in the intro clip. What are they united by?

[Stanley Tucci]

What are. What are who united by?

[Alison Stewart]

Sorry, what is Bellini and Lawrence? What are they united by? Why are they friends in a way?

[Stanley Tucci]

Well, you know, sometimes you become friends. You don't know why you become friends with people. Sometimes you may have different views politically or, you know, sort of aesthetically, but morally, they are twins, I think. And I think that they. That's what brings them together. Now, I say that because you can be moral twins with someone because you trust them. But the key thing is that you have to trust yourself. And that is so much about, you know, that's what this movie is about. So much is about trusting yourself and knowing yourself. And as it turns out, that trust of yourself and that trust between them becomes slightly broken because of the machinations that are going on. But in the end, their friendship, Their friendship succeeds. Their friendship goes on because Cardinal Bellini makes it admission that he understands that he. Well, I won't give it away. Let's say that.

[Alison Stewart]

Fair, Edward.

[Stanley Tucci]

It's really about friendship, is about trust and love and sharing a moral ground.

[Alison Stewart]

Stanley, I'm interested in how you think about the tone of the project overall versus what you have to bring to the character.

[Stanley Tucci]

Well, no, they're part and parcel. I mean, I. I think. Excuse me, I. You have to fit, as an actor, you have to fit into the tone of the film. If you don't, if you're playing a tertiary role or a secondary role or, you know, whatever, and. And that the director, first of all, the script, second of all, the director, they set the tone very clearly. And you must be a part of that. If you're not, you're just kind of showing off or trying to be different or trying to get attention or something like that. Separate yourself and you can't. Your job as an actor is to. Is to fit into the story perfectly and to tell that story the way it's meant to be told or the way the director has chosen for it to be told. And that's it. As I said, if you try to do something different, then it's a bit, you know, show offy.

[Alison Stewart]

My guests are actor Stanley Tucci and director Edward Berger were discussing Conclave about all the machinations behind selecting a new Pope. Let's listen to another clip from Conclave. Bellini claims he doesn't want the papacy, but when people start voting for Lawrence and taking votes away from him, his tune changes a little bit. Let's layer a clip featuring you and Ralph Fiennes.

[Ralph Fiennes]

I thought we had your support. If we liberals are not united, Tedesco will become Pope. You have no idea how bad it became, Thomas. The way he and his circle attacked the Holy Father towards the end. The smears, the leaks to the press. It was savage. He fought him every single day of his pontificate. And now that he's dead, he wants to destroy his life's work. If Tedesco becomes Pope, he will undo 60 years of progress.

[Edward Berger]

You talk as if you're the only alternative, but Adeyemi has the wind behind him.

[Ralph Fiennes]

Adeyemi?

[Stanley Tucci]

Mm.

[Ralph Fiennes]

Adeyemi, the man who believes that homosexuals should be sent to prison in this world and hell in the next. Aunt dme's not the answer to anything. And you know it. If you want to defeat Tedesco.

[Edward Berger]

This is a conclave, Aldo. It's not a war.

[Ralph Fiennes]

It is a war, and you have to commit to a side.

[Alison Stewart]

Why does. Why does Bellini at first say that he doesn't really want it, Stanley?

[Stanley Tucci]

Because he thinks he doesn't want it because we don't. He doesn't know himself yet, which he says later in the film. He doesn't know himself yet. He thinks he knows him. We all think we know ourselves, but we don't. Which is the beautiful part of growing older and the awful part of growing older and the not knowing and suddenly realizations or epiphanies are what create regrets. So I think that he. He thinks he doesn't want it because he thinks he's purer than he is. But we all do.

[Alison Stewart]

Interesting. Before the voting begins, Edward Cardinal Lawrence delivers a speech to all the cardinals in which he says, let. Let us hope the next pope is one who has doubts. How is that message central to the theme of the film?

[Stanley Tucci]

Yeah.

[Edward Berger]

Well, I think it's a. You know, he says, the next Pope, I hope someone who has doubts is because the world is full of certainty. We are surrounded by people who say, this is the way. That's the way. But actually, no one knows, you know, in faith or politics or anything or even directing movies. You know, to me, the expression of doubts and doubt invites discussion and invites a discourse with other. And hearing other people and getting. Then making the wisest decision based on advice and on. On. On listening within yourself rather than shouting the loudest. And. And, you know, that's Rafe's internal journey. He's. He's, you know, he says, basically, I'm. I'm. You know, I have difficulty with prayer. You know, he goes through a crisis. He doubts his profession. He doubts his faith. And it's almost like I'm saying, like, I have difficulty believing, you know, in the power of the camera, or you saying, I'm definitely believing in my words, you know, like. And. And you go through this existential crisis, and that is, you know, you start to embrace doubts and. And in the end, he comes out having overcome that and. And, you know, embracing the possibility of a future that brings change to his organization. And that's the, you know, that's the wonderful arc that he goes through.

[Alison Stewart]

Stanley, you grew up in the Catholic Church right up in Westchester. How has your relationship with religion changed since childhood and even changed in doing this film?

[Stanley Tucci]

Doing the film was interesting because it was. I was revisiting certain aspects of the Catholic church, that I remember. Yeah. I was raised Catholic. Went to church every day, made my first communion. My catechism was confirmed. But by the age of 18, 19, I chose not to go to church any longer. I. I don't think that. To me, I'm not a religious person, and that's my choice. And if someone is Catholic and they believe in Christ, great. If someone is a Buddhist, if someone is a Muslim, if someone is whatever, great. Just don't foist it upon me, that's all. If it makes you happy and it helps you be a stronger, better person, that's great. That is the only issue I have with a lot of organized religion today, which is it seems to be if you don't believe what I believe, then you're a bad person. And I don't believe that. I. My late wife was a secular humanist. And that made a bit more sense to me. And yet I'm a little bit like. I'm a little like Groucho Marx in the sense that I don't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.

[Alison Stewart]

Edward, you filmed in Rome. Was that always the plan?

[Edward Berger]

Yes, it was. Of course, we evaluated other places for financial reasons, because obviously you want to shoot this movie in Rome. But in the end, you know, Rome became such an important element to the shooting and to the atmosphere of the film. And it influenced the film tremendously. Not only the architecture, but also the people and the experiences we had there. For example, you know, when you. When you wake up in the morning, you have your coffee there, and you look out the window and you see a nun smoking a cigarette on the street, or two archbishops having a coffee in the cafe downstairs. You realize they're just people, you know, people going to work. And that humanity became the main driving force for the film that became the movie, you know, trying to discover the humanity within. Rafe, Stanley, John Lisko, Lucien Massimati, all the actors in the movie and their characters.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, the movie came out a little over a week after the US general election. Germany's chancellor lost vote of confidence yesterday, which leaves it in the hands of a caretaker government until next year. Stanley, how have the messages of this movie taken on a new meaning for you given recent political events?

[Stanley Tucci]

I don't know. I don't know. The movie has a message. As much as it just simply shows the machinations of what's happening and the political intrigue. I can't say it has a message. If you take a message from it, that's up to you. It lays out who these people are and how the Catholic Church deals with the choosing of a new pope. I think obviously we're in a very. What do I want to say? We're on a sort of precipice politically in America and throughout the world. The world has not, not, not been here before. However, I don't know. It's simply because we're living through it and it's not in the past. We're not watching documentaries about it that are in black and white. We're here and it's in full color and we're seeing it unfold before us. It's very scary. I think that the more people are able to communicate, the better things are. However, a lot of that communication because of technology is polluted, distorted and unreal. So we've lost not only what we've lost is a sense of what's real and what isn't real because of where we are technologically. And that will obviously affect us emotionally and on the ground. So does this speak to what's happening now? Yes, it does, but I don't think it tries to signal anything.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with actor Stanley Tucci and director Edward Berger about the best Picture nominated film Conclave about all the machinations behind selecting a new pope. After the break, Oscar nominated actor Mikey Madison joins me to discuss starring as a tenacious sex worker in the best Picture nominated movie Honora. Stay with us.

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