All Of It (WNYC) – "Best Picture Nominee, 'Past Lives'"

Date: March 8, 2024
Host: Alison Stewart (with guest hosting by Kushan Avadar)
Guests: Celine Song (Writer/Director), Greta Lee (Lead Actor)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the acclaimed film Past Lives, nominated for Best Original Screenplay and Best Picture at the Oscars. Host Alison Stewart speaks with writer/director Celine Song and lead actor Greta Lee about crafting a cross-continental, cross-cultural love story, the personal inspirations behind the film, the significance of bilingual storytelling, and what the movie reveals about longing, identity, and fate — especially through the unique Korean concept of "inyon." The conversation emphasizes representation, complex female leads, and the fabric of New York City.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Frame: Introducing Mystery and Perspective

[04:25]

• The movie opens with Nora, her husband Arthur, and childhood sweetheart Hae Song in a bar, with other patrons speculating about their relationship.
• Celine Song chose this as her opening to invite the audience into the story’s mystery and to frame the exploration of hidden relationships:

  "I saw people at the bar looking at us because we look like such a strange trio… what if I really did take the time to tell you about it?" (Celine Song, 04:53)

Power and Presence in Storytelling

[06:30]

• Greta Lee describes Nora’s empowering role, reinforced by the camera’s focus on her at the start, inviting viewers to decode her relationships.
• Celine Song reflects on Nora as the bridge between two worlds and two men, her power coming from just existing as that link:

  "She just has to be there… she becomes a portal and a bridge between these two worlds… a really powerful thing." (Celine Song, 07:09)

Deconstructing the "Love Triangle" Trope

[08:40]

• Greta Lee praises the movie’s departure from the typical, passive female character in love triangles:

  "So often we see the woman at the center… who's maybe lost or uncertain… In a more conventional love triangle, she would maybe be looking to two men to fill in certain gaps… This is not that, which is such a flex." (Greta Lee, 08:40)

• Nora is described as self-assured, ambitious, in control of her trajectory.

Bilingual Script, Authenticity, and Directing

[10:16]

• The script was written in both English and Korean to respect the realities of bilingual characters and actors.
• Celine Song:

  "It felt important to write in both languages." (Celine Song, 10:16)

• Greta Lee emphasizes how directing in both languages shaped authentic relationships between the characters:

  "There’s so much intentionality behind the choices Celine made in the writing… in the language they’re choosing to speak in that moment." (Greta Lee, 10:54)

Theater Roots and Story Craft

[12:10]

• Both Song and Lee have theater backgrounds.
• Celine Song credits theater with her ability to focus on story, character, and scene work:

  "Just connection to story and character… the basic building blocks of storytelling… I had a decade's worth of experience doing." (Celine Song, 12:19)

Nora’s Ambition and New York Identity

[13:43]

• Nora’s ambitions (Nobel, Pulitzer, Tony) are intentional details, shaping her as unapologetically driven.
• Greta Lee:

  "That kind of unbridled, unabashed ambition is so central to who she is… It was such a joy to embody that." (Greta Lee, 13:43)

Filming New York: A City of Immigrants and Dreamers

[15:03]

• Song explains why certain iconic New York shots, like the Statue of Liberty, are woven into the film:

  "Statue of Liberty is so romantic to tourists and immigrants… for two of them… it’s a really special place… It had to be shot like the way you see it on the boat…" (Celine Song, 15:03)

Reconnecting with the Past: Diaspora and Identity

[16:50]

• Nora’s draw to reconnect with Hae Song is about rediscovering parts of herself:

  "Certain people in your life can serve as like a hologram or like a mirror… of your identity, your past. And I think that's true of Haesung at that moment in her life…" (Greta Lee, 16:50)

Destiny and the Korean Concept of “Inyon”

[18:10]

• The concept of "inyon," a fated connection between people across past lives, is central to the film—and unique in its cultural specificity.
• Celine Song:

  "There are some relationships… that can't really be described in another word. It can only be really described by this ineffable feeling… something that spans time and space and endures through time and space…" (Celine Song, 19:37)

Playing with Audience Expectations

[21:09]

• Celine Song sought to subvert expectations by making all central characters intelligent and emotionally complex:

  "It was really important for… Arthur to have a sense of the story… it's this commitment that I had to make the characters be as smart and emotionally deep as just the people we know in our lives." (Celine Song, 21:09)

Representation, Process, and Artistic Fulfillment

[22:31]

• Greta Lee discusses how the project raised her standards for future work and why stories like this are rare yet vital:

  "It was such an incredible way of making this movie… It's restored my faith in… fighting for making sure that there's space… for stories like this… to do this with Celine and tell this story in this way… not in service of any kind of, you know, gaze, whether it's like a white gaze or a male gaze…" (Greta Lee, 22:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "What if I really did take the time to tell you about it? What if I really made the effort to show you what it’s been like… to end up sitting here with my child, sweetheart and my husband?"
  – Celine Song, 04:53

• "She’s a real woman, full of knowingness in terms of what she wants out of life. She’s powerful."
  – Greta Lee, 07:58

• "That kind of unbridled, unabashed ambition is so central to who she is… so incredibly self-assured."
  – Greta Lee, 13:43

• "Nora is reconnecting to that part of herself through this person… it expands from being cultural… to so much more… two people who are so undeniably connected."
  – Greta Lee, 16:50

• "There are some relationships… that can't really be described in another word. It can only be really described by this ineffable feeling… something deep and something that spans time and space…"
  – Celine Song, 19:37

• "To be able to do this with Celine and tell this story… not in service of any kind of… gaze, whether it’s a white gaze or a male gaze. I don’t know what’s better than that."
  – Greta Lee, 22:31

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Episode Context & Introduction: 01:33 – 02:08
• Framing the Mystery & Bar Scene: 04:25 – 06:24
• Nora’s Power and the Lead’s Perspective: 06:30 – 07:47
• Redefining Love Triangle Narratives & Ambitious Woman: 08:40 – 09:52, 13:43 – 14:28
• Bilingualism & Directing: 10:16 – 12:10
• Theater to Film Transition: 12:10 – 13:24
• Depicting New York: 14:28 – 16:31
• Connecting Past and Present, Diaspora: 16:50 – 17:56
• Explaining “Inyon”: 18:10 – 20:46
• Subverting Expectations & Smart Characters: 21:09 – 22:19
• Representation and Process: 22:31 – 23:44

Overall Tone & Language

The conversation is insightful, warm, and deeply reflective. Both Celine Song and Greta Lee emphasize artistic intent, personal identity, and authentic representation, with a consistent undercurrent of gratitude and pride for bringing such a nuanced, culturally specific story to mainstream audiences. The episode is empowering and invites listeners to consider the layers beneath ordinary life and familiar stories.