Alison Stewart (2:40)

How about for you? Why did you think that was the right time?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (2:44)

That's exactly what we need today. We need to build bridges. We need to understand each other better, and we need to spark conversation, and we need to love one another.

Alison Stewart (2:55)

One of the first things we hear someone say about Preston and the doc is he was built for show business. He was not built for show business. Are both of these things true, Paris?

Paris Barclay (3:08)

Yeah, they are very true for Billy Preston. I mean, he was built for show business because he was a performer who had what David Ritz in the film calls perfect anticipation. He never write any sheet music. He walked into the studio, he would figure out what the song was, like that, and then he'd be able to play it. And so anytime you give him any genre, country, pop, soul, rock, he could just play it. And that's just an amazing talent. So someone who can do that and then dance and then be the effervescent personality was. Is a show business personality. On the other hand, he's also a really sensitive guy. And I. By sensitive, I mean capital sensitive. He felt everything and took everything in. And he had a really tough time growing up. He had some very bad experiences that we believe really, according to his friends, really changed who he was. But he kept that hidden and he kept going on. And so the show business triumphed over the pain that he was feeling. And that's what we get to explore in the documentary.

Alison Stewart (4:02)

It's. It's really interesting. You can see the light in his eyes when he plays music. He's like. He's just happy. He's beyond happy, actually.

Paris Barclay (4:10)

I think. Yeah. David Ritz says he's. When he's playing, he's, you know, great, but he's. But when he's not. What was wrong?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (4:16)

He's in his bliss. Well, when he's playing, he's in his bliss. And when he's not, he's a holy mess.

Paris Barclay (4:20)

Something like that.

Alison Stewart (4:21)

Yeah.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (4:21)

Holy mess. That's what he said.

Paris Barclay (4:22)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (4:23)

Do you remember the first time you heard Billy Preston?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (4:25)

I do. I do remember the first time I heard Billy Preston. I was on the. On my. I was about 10 years old, listening to Let It Be in Abbey Road with my parents on their, you know, Shag Rust carpeting. And my dad said, I know I have these records of this kid. And he meant Billy. Cause you could hear the organ out of that music. And sure enough, he had about six or seven of Billy. Or five. Sorry, five of Billy's top albums. And it was, you know, my mind was just blown.

Alison Stewart (5:03)

Let's talk to Mark, who's pulled over his car to talk to us.

Paris Barclay (5:08)

Thank you for driving safely, Mark.

Mark (Caller) (5:11)

It's a driveway moment, which we like to talk about here on wnyc.

Alison Stewart (5:18)

So, Mark, you're on the air.

Mark (Caller) (5:20)

So I just wanted to mention that as a lifelong Beatles fan, as a lifelong Billy fan, one of the things that Struck me in Peter Jackson's Get Back film. The expansion of the Let It Be film is as soon as Billy makes his appearance, everything starts to gel between his presence making the others behave themselves, and his contribution which ties it all together. It's just a miraculous transformation right there on the spot and right there captured on film. Yeah, every musician I know was stunned by that moment.

Paris Barclay (5:59)

And, Mark, you get to see a different version of it in the film. We actually, you know, Peter Jackson, with the help of Jonathan Clyde and Olivia Harrison, allowed us to use the footage and some of the footage that's on scene to sort of cut together the Billy perspective of coming in there with Glenn Johns and with Ringo Starr narrating it. So. And Billy Preston got. That's the way God planned it. You see the story from inside Billy Preston and you hear about what was going on from some of the people who were there. So I hope you'll tune in to see that kind of story and you

Jeannie Alphont Festa (6:27)

can witness everything that you said prior to this about that anticipation and the way he was in the room and how it wasn't just that anticipation. It was that when he walked into a room, he didn't suck the air out of the room. He could read a room like no other. And he was an empath, you know, so that anticipation, musically and emotionally, got him just to just be. And all that flowed over everyone.

Alison Stewart (6:56)

I'm speaking to director Paris Barclay and producer Jeannie Alphont Festa about the new documentary Billy Preston that's the Way God Planned It. Listeners, you can join in here. Did you ever get to see Preston perform? Do you have a special connection to one of his songs? Give us a call or text us. 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. We have a clip here, and it's Billy Preston at 11 years old on the Nat King Cole show from 57. Let's listen. We can talk about it after Nat King Cole speaks first.

Mark (Caller) (7:31)

I see. I see you can do a little practicing, huh?

Paris Barclay (7:34)

Always, Mr. Cole.

Mark (Caller) (7:35)

Well, let's hear that song that you wrote. Let me see, what is the name of it?

Paris Barclay (7:38)

Billy's Boogie.

Mark (Caller) (7:39)

Billy's Boogie.

Paris Barclay (7:40)

Okay,

Billy Preston (singing) (7:43)

Sam.

Alison Stewart (8:11)

So Preston stars a young version of W.C. handy in the 58 film St. Louis Blues alongside Nat King Cole, who was playing him as an adult. How did Billy Preston get access to the national spotlight? Paris or Jeanne?

Paris Barclay (8:24)

Anyway, Billy Preston played in the church from the time he was five years old. He played for Myelia Jackson and he got a little bit Notorious. He was actually on television. I think they recorded one of the sermons in which he conducted the choir at, you know, the ripe old age of five. So he was born to be in front of the camera. And I think they looked at him and said, this guy has a magnetism, you know, that stayed with him throughout his life. And suddenly they put him on.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (8:52)

That's right, yeah. And you could see, I think it's Pearl Bailey and Mahalia Jackson in that clip that you just from, you know, from that movie. And so, you know, he did sing with Mahalia and the Kojiks, of course. So his gospel roots started, you know, at when he was born.

Alison Stewart (9:11)

How did this. Yeah. How did the church shape Billy Preston as a performer and then how the church shaped Billy Preston as the person?

Paris Barclay (9:20)

That's a really good question. Deep question. Well, let's deal with the easier part, which is as a performer. So you're playing. And we go through this in the film, and when you're a church accompanist, you are basically orchestrating a movie. You play for the preacher, you play under it, you play the hymns, and you bring everyone together. And I think Corey Henry says in the movie, if you do it right, you know, the contributions increase. I'm paraphrasing. And so he was very natural with that. He could play any song, follow any musician. That was great. So he was at home in the church. That was his place. His sisters, his mother were church going, and they brought him, and he loved it. But as a person, it became complicated because he was also discovering his sexuality. And in discovering that the church has got an opinion on it, especially the Baptist church as he was growing up. And so it became a difficult conflict in his life. And we talked to people who knew him then and people who knew him later in life who felt that's a complication he could never quite resolve.

Alison Stewart (10:14)

Let's talk to Anthony from Nutley, New Jersey. Hi, Anthony. Thank you for taking the time to

Jeannie Alphont Festa (10:19)

call, all of it.

Anthony (Caller) (10:20)

Thank you. Love the show. The documentary sounds absolutely wonderful.

Mark (Caller) (10:24)

I love Billy.

Anthony (Caller) (10:25)

I saw him with George Harrison in the Dark Horse show, and George let him do all his songs, and he was so wonderful with George, and he was fabulous. And I saw him with the Rolling Stones, and they let him do his numbers also. They got another drummer. And nobody had the tickle that Billy had. If you hear, like, get back with the Beatles on the roof, he tickles. Nobody had that tickle.

Paris Barclay (10:50)

That's great. The Billy Preston tickle will go down. But that's part of what is amazing about him. Because when you can play with the Beatles and you can play with the Rolling Stones and you can continue on with George Harrison and with Ringo Starr and he even played with John, there's something there that they want to keep near them that Billy Preston offered. There was something there that they wanted to hold onto.

Alison Stewart (11:09)

It was interesting. I thought that his relationship with George Harrison was particular. It was special. What do you think it was?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (11:17)

You know, Olivia said they saw each other. That was the expression that she kept using.

Paris Barclay (11:23)

Yeah, it's a great expression.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (11:24)

They saw each other and they were very, very, very close.

Alison Stewart (11:30)

Let's talk to Elle from Long Island. Hi, Elle, thanks for calling all of it with your Billy Preston memory.

Elle (Caller) (11:36)

Oh, yes. You know, he was quite a genius. Okay. And one thing that I remember during the time he came up and started playing was after, you know, coming out from under the wings of the church and playing in the secular world, he played for Little Richard and he traveled. He was the pianist for Little Richard and his band for quite some time. And in fact, they were somewhat two of a pair.

Paris Barclay (12:11)

Yeah, there's a lot of history there.

Elle (Caller) (12:14)

He was influenced and encouraged and even directed by Little Richard in many things, you know, And I just think that him going on to. Oh, my goodness, Roberta Flack and doing. Where is. Yeah, where is the love?

Paris Barclay (12:35)

Yeah.

Alison Stewart (12:35)

Yeah. Thank you so much for calling in. We appreciate that. What was Little Richard's influence on him?

Paris Barclay (12:41)

It's a really good story because Little Richard found him when he was just 16 and said, come to Europe with me and play the keyboards. And he did. And Richard was the headliner when he met the Beatles. So a lot of it is all intertwined. And I find. And the movie gets into this. It's really interesting that two of his biggest influences were Little Richard and Ray Charles, who are not exactly the same kind of performer. But you could see Billy Preston is sort of a combo of both of those with Ray Charles's soulful, you know, careful phrasing and really beautiful balladry. And then Little Richard's flamboyant is the word I think we use, and playful and delirious way of performing. And Billy Preston sort of took those two together and fused them into one.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (13:26)

And you can hear it on that song, one after 909. Right. Is that the right title?

Paris Barclay (13:30)

I think I got that right. One after 9:09, the Beatles album. It's one of the first songs John Lennon ever wrote. And they did it Again and Let It Be with Billy Preston going crazy in Jerry Lee Lewis mode on the keyboards. It's just an extraordinary life, an extraordinary performer. Yeah, it is. It was very Little Richard.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (13:46)

You're right, it was, yeah.

Alison Stewart (13:47)

We're talking about the new documentary Billy Preston. That's the Way God Planned It. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking to director Paris Barclay and producer Jeannie Alphont Festa about their new documentary, Billy Preston that's the Way God Planned It. It will be at Film Farm, starring this Friday. This is a great text. It says, having a nice flashback to childhood, watching Billy Preston on the Midnight Special. My fave album he played on was the Stones Black and Blue, arguably their funkiest recording here in New York.

Paris Barclay (14:36)

I agree. It was the funk. He brought the funk to the Stones and they loved it.

Alison Stewart (14:40)

It's interesting cause he was on Apple Records at first, and then he went to A and M. There's a part in the film talking about what that campus was like. And then he signed to Motown. Paris, what's interesting about the labels that Billy Preston landed on through the course of his career.

Paris Barclay (14:56)

Oh, that's really interest. Forgotten that question. Well, starting with Apple was huge for him because as your first label to be taken under the wing by George Harrison and have access to the biggest, you know, producers and the AA of the Beatles. But unfortunately it was just as the Beatles were splitting and the company was in disarray. So then he lands at A and M, where pop music is just, you know, growing like weeds there with Carol King and with James Taylor and. And suddenly he's in this pop stratosphere. And that's where his biggest records were made. Nothing from Nothing and will go around in circles. And then eventually, as they sort of. And we talk about this in the film, tried to put him into a little bit of a black box. He became frustrated. And then coming to Motown, you know, with Gary Barry Gordon's assistance was a delight at first because Suzanne DePass was there. She was his friend, she took care of him. And he had that huge hit record with what with youh I'm Born Again, that, you know, sort of cemented his later legacy. So each one sort of provided a different Billy Preston as he moved through them.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (15:56)

Yeah, listen. Absolutely. And that song with Sarita. Oh, that song is magnificent.

Paris Barclay (16:03)

Yeah, it's beautiful.

Alison Stewart (16:04)

I want to play another song by Billy Preston. He co wrote it with Joe Cocker. You are so beautiful. And in the documentary, it Suggested that the song was about his mother. Let's listen and we can talk about it on the other side.

Billy Preston (singing) (16:20)

You are, you are so beautiful to me. You are so beautiful to me. Can't you see?

Paris Barclay (16:48)

Yeah.

Billy Preston (singing) (16:49)

Everything that I hope for. And what's more, you're everything I need. You are so beautiful, baby, to me.

Alison Stewart (17:11)

What changes about that song if you think it's about his mother?

Paris Barclay (17:15)

Well, he says it's about his mother. And although I can remember a time when I couldn't go to a wedding without hearing that song, it was the wedding song for a while. And just to correct the record, he wrote it with Bruce Fisher, who was interviewed in the film.

Alison Stewart (17:29)

Bruce Fisher, Sorry.

Paris Barclay (17:30)

And Joe Cocker was the first recorded and made it a huge hit record. But Billy's recording was out there as well. And I love Billy's recording. I love the strings. I love the sound of his voice. I think it's extraordinary.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (17:41)

It is. It's extraordinary. It's absolutely beautiful. And as Bobby Watson articulates it with his expression. Bobby Watson, he said, and you're telling me about his mama, you know, and he actually wipes away tears. And it was so beautiful. In the moment he was.

Paris Barclay (18:00)

Bobby Watson was one of his bass. Longtime bass player.

Alison Stewart (18:04)

This text says his live rendition of Summertime, where he does it in the style of both Bach and Ray Charles, is such a wonderful intro to Preston that I've played it for a number of folks to inculcate them into the Church of Preston. That is for Clarence.

Paris Barclay (18:19)

We got a lot of great clips and video in our film, and we spent a good deal of money getting them. That's when we couldn't get. I mean, when you get into the George Gershwin estate. But you can go on YouTube and find it, because he plays Summertime as Bach, he plays Summertime as Ray Charles. It's so brilliant to see how quickly he can shift between these different styles.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (18:39)

And with that song, Music Is My Life also, at the very beginning, it kind of gives you that glimpse of it.

Paris Barclay (18:43)

A little flavor of it.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (18:44)

A little flavor of it. That song takes me away.

Alison Stewart (18:48)

It's interesting because Billy, he was purely an entertainer. He loved to entertain, but he was also a private person. How did the privacy show up in his relationship?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (18:59)

You know, everyone said he was hard pressed to learn about who he, you know, his life. You know, I mean, David Ritz was saying how I tried to get him to speak about his personal life because I wanted to write a book about him. And so he couldn't. They remained, quote, very close Friends, you know, and then Kenny Burke, they became very close friends. And I think he opened up to Kenny, definitely opened up to Tony Jones, but. But, you know, there's some things that he kept back. And I remember it's Suzanne DePass interview, and it still chokes me up when she said, I wish I said the things that were none of my business. Am I right? Am I quoting that right? And it was. So we all choked up when she said that.

Paris Barclay (19:43)

And for me, it's part of the reason why I identified with him so much. I'm not nearly as private, but I've had a lot of therapy, so I can deal with things like some early abuses that I had and my alcoholism and all the problems that Billy had, I shared. And I can sort of work through them in a way that allows me to sort of use them as educational tools or to help other people. But 10 years, the difference of 10 years, I'm 10 years younger than Billy Preston, has been huge because the world is changing, and there's more tolerance of people who are not necessarily straight. Like, Billy was not necessarily straight. And I just wish he had been born a little bit later, because we'd still be enjoying him like Stevie Wonder, you know, he'd still be there producing music that could be, you know, greater than what he was ever able to do in his lifetime. So the secrecy, I don't. I don't begrudge him for that, because he was in a time when this could be very destructive. And you really only wanted to let the people you're really close to in.

Alison Stewart (20:37)

One of the things I thought was interesting in the film was he wore a lot of wigs.

Paris Barclay (20:42)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (20:43)

And that's sort of fun, and that's big on stage, but the wigs are something else. The wigs mean you're sort of hiding who you are, truly.

Paris Barclay (20:51)

Yeah. We were talking about that last night that maybe we should have, you know, called this Billy Preston take the wig off or something. But Mick Jagger in the film gives him a little jostle about that. But I always thought that was his actual hair, and I'm sure many listeners did, too. I always thought Billy had a big Afro. But Mick Jagger will explain to you when you see the film that it's just all a series of wigs, and he would choose different ones to wear and different performances. And he says he loved the wig because he could take it off and then he wouldn't be recognized. And he could just go through life without being recognized. And it's kind of a metaphor for Billy in his life.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (21:24)

Yes, it is. That and the complication of playing the B3 organization.

Alison Stewart (21:29)

Oh, that's an amazing. When you hear about learning how to play the B3 organ.

Paris Barclay (21:33)

Yeah. If you don't play the B3 organ, it's not just sitting there with a keyboard. It's two keyboards and lots and lots of switches and pedals that do bass. And it's just a complicated beast. And Corey Henry, who's a great organist himself, breaks it down. And then David Ritz really says something. This complicated instrument perfectly suited Billy Preston's complicated self. And that's one of the reasons why they just fit together so well.

Alison Stewart (21:55)

We're talking about the documentary Billy Preston. That's the way God planned it. I'm speaking to his director, Paris Barclay and Jeannie Elphont Festa.

Paris Barclay (22:04)

You said it right. Every single time. Perfect.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (22:06)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (22:08)

We should talk about drugs. They come up in the film.

Paris Barclay (22:10)

Who doesn't love to talk about drugs?

Alison Stewart (22:13)

When did Billy's drug use clearly become self destructive?

Paris Barclay (22:20)

I don't know. That's hard to say.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (22:21)

What would you say the crack at

Paris Barclay (22:23)

around the Rolling Stones time?

Jeannie Alphont Festa (22:25)

Yeah, I mean, Rolling Stones, sure. He said it was a party all the time. But I think when it became, I think the crack epidemic, when that drug became so available and so cheap and so, you know, highly charged, you know, it's a shame. It really did a lot of people in crack.

Paris Barclay (22:46)

Weird thing about Billy played extremely well. Hi. And that probably prolonged his use of drugs because everyone talks. Bill Maxwell talks about how he could come into a session completely high and still be amazing on the keyboard. Something about that musical soul was still working, despite the fact that the mind may have been riddled with cocaine. And that's one of the amazing parts of Billy Preston's story too, because he's truly a functional alcoholic drug addict until he's not. And when he's not, then everything goes down. Him.

Alison Stewart (23:16)

Other people you talk to, did it affect him personally?

Paris Barclay (23:21)

Yeah, he became a different person. And I mean, Bob Ellis and other people talk about this. He became meaner and he became harder and is his thing. And Suzanne De Pass talks about it too. There was just a different person that came out. And I, having had experience with drug and alcohol addiction, have seen that it can change you. It can make you the meanest version of yourself. It can make you the most selfish version of yourself. And so I can see. And I would have loved to have met Billy and known him personally, but I can see how that can sort of take those demons and bring them to the fore.

Alison Stewart (23:53)

Yeah.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (23:53)

I mean, and Robert Margaleef was saying in the film that, you know, we didn't have the tools back then. There wasn't AA or oa. We didn't have those tools to say, I'm gonna take you to a meeting. It wasn't that. It wasn't so prevalent. Yes, we know Alcoholics and I'm a. Was founded years ago. Then it was happening, but it wasn't acceptable. It wasn't something that you could. This is where I'm going, and this is what you need, and let me help you. So when it came to him finally, and he went and sought treatment, he had something to stand on. But I think it was really because of that judge I was gonna bring up.

Alison Stewart (24:34)

The judge is in your documentary?

Paris Barclay (24:36)

Yeah. For the first interview ever, we have Judge Kamins, who was one of the people who sentenced Billy over and over again and who, you know, looked at all of his life, and he eventually protected him a bit by sending him to prison. And Billy wrote him a letter back saying, that changed my life. You may have saved my life by sending me to prison. And that's, you know, for me, one of the really moving points. And when we got that interview, and it's all due to Nigel Sinclair and the White Horse people actually convincing this judge to come from retirement to talk in a documentary, which he's never done before, and that sort of changed our perspective on him. I mean, there were some crimes and some things that he did that we don't sugarcoat that. But the judge puts it in perspective.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (25:18)

He certainly does. And he did it as a teaching tool. He said it. I've never done an interview before. I'll never do an interview again.

Alison Stewart (25:24)

This is a great text. It says, when I was the ripe old age of 11 years old, my big brother and I were blessed with a pair of complimentary tickets to the matinee show at Madison Square Garden of the Concert for Bangladesh. It was my first rock concert. There was a lot of love and light coming off that stage that day. And Billy certainly was the source of love emanating from that stage.

Paris Barclay (25:47)

That's beautiful. I mean, he would love to hear that, but. And part of the joy of making the documentary is just to bring that joyful, effusive self to life and for people to experience it. Now he's kind of been forgotten a little bit. Get back help to people to be a little curious about him. But when we did the doc, and it began with Jeannie and the White Horse people, just to say this is a subject worth telling. And as we got into it, there was a lot to tell.

Alison Stewart (26:11)

Yeah, Billy Preston, that's the Way God Planned it premieres at Film form on Friday. Thank you so much for being with us.

Paris Barclay (26:19)

Really enjoyed it. Great questions. Thank you.

Jeannie Alphont Festa (26:20)

Thank you.

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