← All Of It with Alison Stewart
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- [00:04]
Paolo Velez
Listener support, WNYC Studios.
- [00:19]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Happy almost New Year to everybody. Or maybe I should quote Jose Feliciano and say Prospero ano y felicidad. Because we're about to hear a conversation about some tasty bakeables inspired by the Bronx's Dominican bodegas. And just a heads up, when we first had this conversation, we had listeners call in. But because this is an all of it encore presentation, we won't be able to take your calls today. So let's get into some bodega bakes. We've talked before in the show about bodegas, where you can pick up your basic home supplies. Supplies. Candy sandwiches, pet a cat. Now we're going to talk about a new cookbook called Bodega Recipes for Sweets and Treats, inspired by my corner store from baker and community organizer Paolo Velez. She grew up in the Bronx, where bodegas helped her connect to her Dominican roots and where she fell in love with sticky buns, thickum cookies, fried doneas, and a number of members of the flan familia, she calls it. And I must know more about the dolce de leche babka. I must know more. Paolo Velez joins us in studio to talk about bodega bakes. Nice to meet you.
- [01:34]
Paolo Velez
It's so nice to meet you, Alison. Thank you so much for having me. I can't believe I'm back home.
- [01:39]
Alison Stewart
Hey, you cite different versions of the corner store around the world. Kobini's in Tokyo, Tabac's in France. What makes a corner store a bodega to you?
- [01:48]
Paolo Velez
At least for me, like, you know, I actually saw a thread this morning that was like, you know, why do people call them bodegas? They're corner stores, you know, And I'm like, okay, corner store bakes, you know? You know, But I really do think that in the essence of it, a bodega, a deli, a corner store, what makes it that place, very special in my eyes, is that it's a third space, right? It's where the community meets, right? When you're hungry, when you're sad, when you're happy, when you're running to work, when you're coming home from work. And that kind of like, like, meeting point of intersectionality happens, right, for all New Yorkers of all walks of life. And it's something that we hold fast to even once we move out of New York. You know, I had to move out of New York to support my husband and his career. But I'm a New Yorker at heart, and like, everything that I have done, everything that I have envisioned for pastry, and, you know, even as a United States culinary diplomat, now what I do is I make sure that I'm kind of representing the essence of third spaces for people when they can't come to New York. They've never been to New York, and they don't know how cute the bodega cat is.
- [03:06]
Alison Stewart
You said the bodega for you was a place that allowed you to connect with your Dominican roots.
- [03:11]
Paolo Velez
Yes.
- [03:12]
Alison Stewart
What's a strong memory or two that you have about a connection you felt at the bodega?
- [03:17]
Paolo Velez
So for me, there's two, right? Like, I. I learned how to do very quick math, you know, when I was young, because I had a dollar and I needed to buy all the candy. Luckily, back then there was like 1 cent candy, 5 cent candy, 10 cent candy. If you were balling, you know what I mean? Like, if you were out of control ballin'like, wow, you know, were like, oh, I want the 15 cent candy. But that wasn't me. I was like, give me the peppermint candy for one cent. Give me the Dominican mentas, you know, because I don't know why, but Dominicans love menta holes. Like. Like holes like cough drops. I don't know why we like it, but we like it, you know, But. But, you know, I was able to kind of like, figure out how to pick the things that I like to eat, I want to eat, and how to, like, make a dollar stretch as a kid, you know, like, it's very. Wh. Very magical at that time when you're growing up and you have all of these possibilities and all of these combinations, you know, and if you want it to be really, really cool, you would figure out how to include that 25 cent jug, that 25 cent bag of chips, and then, you know, divide your $0.50 leftover into candy, you know, and then another one for me would be like, when I think of, like, I had two neighborhood bodegas, right? I had one that was. I lived in the Van Cortlandt park area, and we had one down, like some, you know, stairs. That was like a Mexican bodega, right? So I would have, like, tamarind candies covered in chile. I would have. I know, right? I would have like, so many different things, like, you know, masapang and like, all these things that I just didn't grow up with because I'm not Mexican, I was exposed to at a young age. So, like, My brain started already firing off on all cylinders that the world is bigger than the two faces that I see in the morning. You know, my parents, right? And then I had, right across from my middle school, the Sheila McIntyre School, I had a Dominican bodega, you know, and, you know, you walk in and be like, hola, mami. Pero como tuta y como ta tu mama. Which is like, hey, you know, how's your mom? You know? You know, and I'd be like, oh, you know, she's good. You know, she's at work. I only got 50 cents today. He's like, no, I see a dollar, you know, so it taught me my favorite moment is that it taught me kindness, right? It taught me how to be a part of the community, understand. Like, he knew, like, the bodega owner knew all of the kids at school. We would walk in and he would knew, he would know every single one of our struggles, happiness, et cetera, and he would make sure that we never felt the pangs of living in the inner city part of the Bronx, you know what I mean?
- [06:09]
Alison Stewart
We're talking about cooking with Paola Velez. Her new cookbook is Bodega Recipes for Sweets and Treats, inspired by my corner store. Let's talk to Nick from Manhattan. Hi, Nick. Thanks for calling, all of it.
- [06:23]
Caller
Hey, how you guys doing?
- [06:24]
Alison Stewart
Doing great, Nick.
- [06:28]
Caller
I was just calling to say that I'm a huge fan of the black and white cookies at my local bodega. There's also a fabulous chocolate cake. I like a chocolate cake that's like, no frills, you know, I don't need to be going to some fancy Upper east side bake shop to get my chocolate cake just down and dirty, you know, from a box even. It doesn't matter.
- [06:48]
Alison Stewart
Love that, Nick. Thanks for calling in.
- [06:50]
Paolo Velez
That's delicious. I make a passion fruit half moon cookie, so I kind of like one. You have to explain to folks that are not from New York that, like, a black and white cookie and a half moon cookie are slightly different, right? Like, they're. They look very similar, but they're not the same. But I infuse those flavors of, like, a traditional black and white cookie. You have that deliciously soft cookie. You have your wonderfully chocolatey ganache and your icing, right? Usually it's plain vanilla regular, right? Well, not really, you know, but traditional. And I flip it on its head because sometimes I want to feel like I'm eating sour straws at the bodega. So I have my passion fruit half moon cookies now that I'm introducing to the world.
- [07:35]
Alison Stewart
I have to look this up because you had a whole thing about vanilla.
- [07:38]
Paolo Velez
Oh yeah, in there.
- [07:39]
Alison Stewart
Wait, here it is. Unpopular opinions about vanilla. And some says, listen, I need you to sit down because I'm about to drop some truth bombs on you. Unpopular opinion. I think vanilla is awesome. Vanilla is not boring. It's not sad, it's not plain. So stop disrespecting it so much. Unpopular, unpopular opinion. Imitation vanilla sometimes tastes better than real vanilla. Wait, you're walking away? Imitation vanilla sometimes tastes better than real vanilla. Don't me. Just try it. If you still have a problem with this statement, then your complaint is with God. It's above me.
- [08:15]
Paolo Velez
It's above me. Also, we're in a recession. You know what I mean? When you bake with chocolate espresso, I don't know, even like peanut butter, you will not know the difference, I promise you. I went to school well for savory, but I could still eat a cookie. And I can tell you without a shadow of doubt in my mind that you will not know if it's wonderfully delicious. Cultivated Madagascar and vanilla, which cost $25 a bottle.
- [08:45]
Alison Stewart
Cuz I tried to buy some over the weekend and I said it's more.
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Paolo Velez
Than that, it's more. Where. Where'd you find it for 25?
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Alison Stewart
I'll tell you.
- [08:51]
Paolo Velez
Oh my God, give me the plug. But you know, I think that I. I truly think that there's also like different types of imitation vanilla. Imitation vanilla isn't created equally right. And I think that depending on what region of the world you source your imitation vanilla from, it will have different characteristics of flavor too. So it's, you know, try it. You know, I don't know, I just, you know, got nominated for James Beard or whatever, you know what I mean? So I don't know what I'm talking about.
- [09:21]
Alison Stewart
Yeah, it's fair to say that you have some formal training, shall we say, and, you know, could help you making bodega bites. Could not help you making bodega bites. Tell me from your formal training what has worked for you and then maybe tell me something that you just have to know. You just have to know.
- [09:38]
Paolo Velez
So when I was making this book, I had to kind of like actually break it down, right? Like I had to break down the process of explaining what I know and how I think, right? Because I would be like, oh, you grab your sugar, you grab your butter, your flour, bam, bam, boom. And then you make the cake. And then, you know, publisher was like, girl, what are you talking about, girl? What are you talking about? Where are the steps in between?
- [10:02]
Alison Stewart
Who are those?
- [10:03]
Paolo Velez
You know? And I'm like, oh, my God. They don't know. It's implied. It's an implied science. No, like, they should. Okay? So I had to kind of, like, learn how to break down the processes of my own recipes. And, you know, I actually grew up baking by sight, so even, like, learning how to transcribe, when I sprinkle in a little bit of flour because the dough doesn't look right, I was like, oh, my God, this is hard. You know, to whoever, you know, wrote a cookbook or will write a cookbook, shout out to you.
- [10:44]
Alison Stewart
All right, let's talk about some staples that you need for bodega baking. Give me your top three.
- [10:50]
Paolo Velez
I think you need to have a good whisk, right? Invest in a nice, strong whisk, because you don't have to have a stand mixer. You don't have to have a lot of other tools, right? But a whisk will help you do a lot of multitasking baking, right? I think. Find what your pantry is and learn how to bake from that. The things that you already have in your house are the things that will make you the best baker for your family, for your friends, for yourself, so you don't have to go out and buy more stuff, you know? And what I love about bodega bakes is that everything that I talk about you can source from either, you know, a multicultural market. You can go to a bodega, you can go to a deli, you can find these things and bake from it, right? And if I include something that might be a little bit whimsical, right? Like gooseberries, right? Which is something that in the Dominican Republic, we like to eat, you know? And I found that the DMV area, which is not, you know, where people get their licenses, but D.C. maryland, Virginia. We also, you know, grow ground cherries or husk cherries, you know, which is gooseberries. And if I. If you can't find that, I try to find substances that are reasonable for you. If you're in the Midwest, if you're in New York, if you're in Long Island, Staten island, everywhere in between, you know, and then what's another one? Oh, that imitation vanilla, of course. Please try. Give it a try. Your life might change forever.
- [12:32]
Alison Stewart
We have a caller named Reed who's calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Reed.
- [12:37]
Caller
Hi, Alison. Long time. Long time. So I heard dolce de la say leche babka. And I had to call in because there's this cake that I get at a Russian Uzbek supermarket called Tashkent Supermarket in, like, central Brooklyn. And I cannot recommend it any higher. It's basically, it's the Russian equivalent of dulce de leche, which. It's like maloka. I don't know what they call it, but it's like caramelized condensed milk. It's a can, blue and white with a cow on it, and they have layers of that with, like, a frosting and what I can only describe as cannoli wrapper in between the layers of sponge cake, all topped, interspersed with walnuts. And it is, like, the best thing I've ever had in, like, the sweets category. Tashkent Supermarket highly recommend that place. Otherwise, great, Great supermarket.
- [13:29]
Alison Stewart
Reed, thanks for making the call. You talk about the Dominican cakes that are in the book.
- [13:35]
Paolo Velez
Yes. You.
- [13:36]
Alison Stewart
Is it biscocho?
- [13:37]
Paolo Velez
Yes.
- [13:38]
Alison Stewart
Okay, so tell me a little bit about this.
- [13:40]
Paolo Velez
So biscocho Dominicano is a cultural staple for the Dominican Republic and most of Washington Heights, you know, and parts of the Bronx, parts of Brooklyn, parts of Queens, you know, and Long Island, Right. And what I love about this cake, it's like a hybrid pound cake, right? It's like a cross between yellow cake, right? Even if you, like, envision yellow cake, like, you think of, like, box yellow cake, right? Then you think of, like, a very beautiful, compact pound cake, right? Very rich, very decadent. And then Dominican cake lives somewhere in between that, right? And that is, like, the base for all the rest of the stuff that just makes this cake wonderful, right? So then you layer in your filling, right? And it could be pineapple jam, or it could be guava spread. It could be pastry cream, or, you know, whatever you want. Because if you're making this book recipe for my book, you can do whatever you want. You know, I encourage people to really play in the book, you know? But it's finished with the piece de resistance, you know? You know, Chef Jacques Torres, if you're hearing this right now, I hope I did you proud in my pronunciation. But we finish it with a stabilized meringue. So this meringue is kind of structured so that the protein in the egg whites coagulate to a certain point when you introduce simple syrup to a certain heat, a heated point, and it makes it fortified. So when you think of meringue, you always think of something that is light and delicate and clouds floating in the sky. And this one is more like, I'm ready to rock and roll in the Caribbean. I'm ready to rock and roll in 95% humidity. And I'm just gonna be I'm strong. I'm a New Yorker. I'm proud. You know what I mean? Like, this this cake can withstand quite a lot, you know, and it fortifies itself when it's introduced to cold, you know, so most meringues weep. They kind of deflate. They you know, when you when you think of meringue, you think of souffle, Right? And souffles are always like youe know, but Dominican cake is like all the best versions of all your favorite aspects, whether it's like, jelly jam, fluffy meringue cake, and then you have that in a slice. Can you imagine being like five or six? Like, there's pictures of me, like, almost face diving into the cake. Yeah. And my mom's like, no, Paola catutaciendo. You know, for the other listeners, you know, I just said, what are you doing, Paola? You know, and and it's like it's overwhelming. It's it's, like, so wonderful. Like, you take your first bite and you expect it to be dense and rich and, like, heavy, and it's light and fluffy and airy. And, you know, it's great. It's amazing. If you haven't had one, go to your local bodega and try a slice.
- [16:57]
Alison Stewart
Let's talk to Kyle from Verona, New Jersey. Hi, Kyle. You're on the air.
- [17:02]
Caller
Hi. Just moved out of Astoria about a year ago, and I've been missing my favorite bodega. If you know it in Astoria, it's the best Othello's. But the sweet I would always go for was the tricolor cookie cake. Like, bars. I couldn't tell you what the three flavors are. I know one of them is pistachio. The other two, no clue. I just knew it tasted amazing and I'd get every chance I could.
- [17:28]
Alison Stewart
Love it. Thank you so much for calling in. Yeah. Your cookbooks, your cake, your your cookies in this book are described as thickums.
- [17:35]
Paolo Velez
Oh, yeah.
- [17:37]
Alison Stewart
Tell us about the variations on thickums.
- [17:39]
Paolo Velez
So thickums. Right off the bat, I wanted people to not feel this, like, bad feeling or, like, the connotation of sweets and having cookies. Like, it's always like, you're cheating on your diet. You're doing this. And I'm like, no, baby, we sick. Baby, we thick. And now you eating a thickum. You know, you gotta make sure that, you know, the wagon stays big, you know? You know what I mean? Bbl Hoo. We don't need that. We got thickums, you know, but thickums are this, like, really giant cookie that is, like, very crunchy on the outside, but gooey on the inside. And as you travel to the center, if you eat it right as it comes out of the oven, it's almost like lava cake. And it's delicious. It's like three textures and one cookie. It's the best of all the cookie worlds. And I have matcha thickums. I have raspberry white chocolate, and cranberry thickums. I have, you know, a tres leches thickum. And then the O.G. the O.G. my main girl, Thicky McThick, Miss Thickums herself.
- [18:55]
Alison Stewart
You have family dedicated to the flan familia. All right, what. What is the hardest part about making flan?
- [19:02]
Paolo Velez
I think it's really treating. You have to be. There's a sign on your wall that says, work hard and be nice to people. It's, you know, work hard and be nice to the flan. Be nice. All the positive intentions that you have, you know, you can't tell the flan, like, you better not break because she's gonna break. She's like, I'm stressed. I have a nine to five, you know, I'm working nine to five, you know what I mean? And then she's gonna get all messed up. So I really do think that it's making sure that you're going through the process and then you make. You. You're treating that Banya Maria or water bath or Bain Marie, for those avid bakers that are listening in to kind of like give it time to cook low and slow. You want to create this insulation within the water bath. You don't want to just pop in a flan and then just hope for the best, because then you're just going to be making scrambled eggs, you know? And I think one of the things that I. I always warn people is you're gonna want to jiggle it. Don't jiggle it. You know, that's like that one song I'm jiggling, baby. Don't do it.
- [20:09]
Alison Stewart
Don't do it.
- [20:10]
Paolo Velez
Don't do it. Don't do it because it's gonna crack. You're gonna make a. A Grand Canyon size crack in your flan, you know, so you gotta, you know, almost like, let it do the low and slow, set it and forget it. Put it in the fridge, and then see it tomorrow. I see you manana, baby, because you're doing a great job. You're working nine to five. You're working hard. You got overtime and I'll see you manana.
- [20:37]
Alison Stewart
The name of the book is Bodega Bakes. It's by Paolo Velez. I'm not giving my copy back. This is for me. Thank you so much for joining us. In studio.
- [20:45]
Paolo Velez
Thank you so much.
- [20:51]
Alison Stewart
Coming up, it's hot toddy season. We'll talk about those and more with the authors of the new book. Every Cocktail has a twist, which offers some fun variations on classic drinks like Manhattan's Daiquiris and, yes, eggnog. That's next. NYC now delivers breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening. By sponsoring our programming, you'll reach a community of passionate listeners in an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to learn more.