Brandy Clark's Six Grammy Nominations

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Brandy Clark’s Six Grammy Nominations"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Brandy Clark
Date: February 2, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode spotlights acclaimed Nashville songwriter Brandy Clark – fresh off her first Tony nomination for the Broadway hit Shucked and just days ahead of the 2024 Grammy Awards, where she celebrates six nominations. Clark joins Alison Stewart in studio with her guitar, sharing the songs and stories from her self-titled fourth album, discussing her songwriting process, and delving into her Broadway experience. The conversation reveals what makes this project uniquely personal, how collaboration (notably with Brandi Carlile) catalyzed its sound, and the journey behind Shucked's unlikely success.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why a Self-Titled Fourth Album

[03:35–05:15]

• Clark initially contemplated naming the album Northwest, a nod to her Washington State roots, which producer Brandi Carlile strongly encouraged exploring.
• As the songs came together, Clark realized the album transcended any single descriptor.
• Quote:

  “These were the songs that I love and that resonated with me... there wasn’t one song that summed it up.” – Brandy Clark [04:33]

• Brandi Carlile observed that the album felt so personal, "like you wrote them in your bedroom."
• Clark’s manager finally suggested making it self-titled, reflecting its "return to self" nature.

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2. Songs & Stories Behind the Music

“She Smoked in the House” – A Tribute to Her Grandmother

[01:31–03:34]

• Performed live: vivid lyrical portrait of her grandmother’s quirks and working-class wisdom.
• Specific details, like “she saved in Folgers cans, swore credit was a scam, bought everything at Sears on layaway,” provide intimate glimpses of family and heritage.
• Quote:

  “I hate cigarettes, but I miss all that smoke my grandma blew...” – Brandy Clark [02:42]

“Northwest”

[06:10–08:12]

• Clark describes this as a “rocking” homage to her rural childhood in Washington State, mentioning local traditions like the “Lewis County loggin’ show.”
• Clarifies a common fan mishearing: it's logging show, not Kenny Loggins show!
• Most poignant lyric for her: “Hickory shirts will pay the bills”—an ode to the local loggers, including her father.

“Dear Insecurity”

[15:03–21:10]

• Written during a difficult moment in LA, inspired by a friend’s maxim: “insecurity is the ugliest human emotion.”
• The track is a vulnerable “letter” to insecurity, originally envisioned as a duet—Brandi Carlile’s impromptu participation became essential to the final recording.
• Behind the scenes:

  “It was magic in the room ... I knew it was magic.” – Brandy Clark [16:20]
  “On the record, it’s our scratch vocals.” [16:55]

• Memorable lyric excerpt:

  “You take up half this bed living rent free in my head…” [17:56]

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3. Songwriting Philosophy: Which Songs She Keeps

[07:41–09:08]

• Regularly writes for others (Reba, Sheryl Crow, Toby Keith), but keeps songs that feel too personal:
• Quote:

  “When the thought of somebody else singing it is one I don’t like … there are several songs on this record that never got played for anybody because I was like, ‘that’s for me.’” [07:54]

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4. The Impact of the Pandemic

[10:39–12:15]

• Clark recounts promoting an album via screens, learning how essential live audiences are for her as an artist:
• Quote:

  “I need that audience as much as they need my music…” [11:36]

• Listeners told her previous album got them through the pandemic.

What Got Her Through

[12:15–14:39]

• She organized a virtual book club; Untamed by Glennon Doyle was a standout, as was Valentine (“one of my favorite books I’ve ever read”).
• Currently reading Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver:

  “That book made me cry... and books don’t make me cry a lot.” [14:17]

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5. Collaboration with Brandi Carlile

[09:40–10:25]

• Carlile encouraged Clark to embrace her unique cross-genre position and take bold steps sonically, nudging her toward Americana.

• Quote:

  “Brandi Carlile was a huge part of that step ... she said, ‘I think I’m part of that step, and I think a big part of that is to step further into the Americana space, and I can help you do that sonically.’” [09:44]

• Fun Fact:
  Their managers referred to them by their middle names—“Lynn and Marie”—to avoid Brandi/Brandy confusion. [10:26]

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6. Broadway Breakthrough: Shucked

[21:27–26:19]

• Clark discusses Shucked’s origins as a Hee Haw musical, its years-long evolution, and eventual reinvention after early setbacks.
• Key takeaway from theater:

  “Musicals aren’t written, they’re rewritten ... I believed them, but not to the extent that’s really true.” [25:37]

• The show became “overwhelmingly joyous”—gaining a cult following with audience cosplay (corn and carrot costumes). [30:48]
• Collaboration and rewrites have been central—new score required for Broadway, team effort with choreographer and music director.
• Quote:

  “What Shane and I both were great at was telling lifelong stories in three minutes … here, we have two and a half hours to tell the story.” [26:30]

Themes & Diversity in Shucked

[29:45–30:36]

• The story uses corn withering as a metaphor:

  “The corn dies because the town is stuck in their ways and they don’t want to let outsiders and outside ideas in … maybe if we would treat people who are different than us with love first … we might be able to grow some corn.” [29:53]

• Praised for diverse casting, including a non-binary Black lead.

Songs From Shucked

• “We Love Jesus” [22:29] – Showcases the musical’s witty, irreverent tone.
• “Somebody Will” [28:36] – Clark says: “I always hear Blake Shelton singing it! We wrote that song specifically for Andrew Durand, who plays Bo.” [28:07]
• “Friends” [31:17–35:08] – Sung live in studio, highlights friendship between two women leads:

  “I have to call your family but I get to call you friend. My best friend.” [33:06]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On keeping songs for herself:

  “When the thought of somebody else singing it is one I don't like…” – Brandy Clark [07:54]

• On the pandemic:

  “I need that audience as much as they need my music.” – Brandy Clark [11:36]

• On writing for musical theater:

  “Musicals aren’t written, they’re rewritten.” – Brandy Clark [25:37]

• On the themes of Shucked:

  “Maybe love just needs a little love. And maybe if we would treat people who are different than us with love first instead of hate or indifference, we might be able to grow some corn.” [30:08]

• On her book club:

  “I love books so much … there’s nothing I love more than sitting here in this interview and thinking, I can’t wait until I have that hour break so I can open that book up again.” [13:43]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Introduction & Grammy preview | 00:16–01:31 | | “She Smoked in the House” performance | 01:31–03:34 | | Album title and themes | 03:35–05:15 | | “Northwest” and song backstory | 05:15–08:12 | | Songwriting for self vs. others | 07:41–09:08 | | Brandi Carlile’s influence, next chapter | 09:40–10:25 | | Discussing pandemic’s impact | 10:39–12:15 | | Book club and reading recommendations | 12:15–14:39 | | “Dear Insecurity” story and performance | 15:03–21:10 | | Shucked’s origin and revision process | 21:27–26:19 | | Songwriting for musical theatre vs. Nashville | 26:30–27:51 | | Diversity, themes, and audience cosplay | 29:45–30:48 | | Live performance: “Friends” | 31:14–35:08 |

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Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, the conversation is warm, reflective, and often humorous. Clark exhibits humility about her accomplishments and affection for her roots, collaborators, and creative process. Stewart’s questions draw out both the craft and the heart in Clark’s storytelling, blending serious artistic talk with moments of lightness (as when discussing corn costumes or book clubs).

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Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, engaging look into Brandy Clark’s artistry at a pivotal moment—showcasing her commitment to honesty in songwriting, her adaptability across genres, and her collaborative spirit. The mix of live performances, candid conversation, and behind-the-scenes insight makes this a must-listen for music and theater fans alike.

Clark is up for six Grammy Awards, and her career is, as Stewart says, entering its “next chapter”—with listeners eagerly along for the ride.

Transcript

[WNYC Studios Host]

Listener support, WNYC Studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it from wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. The Grammys are coming up this weekend. Today we'll hear from some of the nominated artists. In a bit, we'll get into some poetry with Aja Monet, whose debut record when the Poems do what they do is nominated for best spoken word album. Later in the show, we'll talk with Noah Khan, whose viral and extremely Vermont Y song Stick Season helped land him a nomination for best new artist. And we'll also hear some jazz from an album called Love in Exile featuring vocalists Aroosh Aftab, pianist Vijay Iyer, and multi instrumentalist Shahzad Ismaeli. But now let's get into our first conversation with one of Nashville's best modern songwriters, Brandi Clark. She joined us fresh off her first Tony nomination for the Broadway musical Shucked, which also earned her a nod at this year's Grammys. And on top of that, she's been nominated in five other categories for her self titled album, which includes the tracks Buried and Deer Insecurity featuring Brandi Carlisle. When Brandi Clark joined us in our studio with her guitar, it happened to be her grandmother's birthday, which is who she wrote this first song about. Let's hear it.

[Brandi Clark]

She smoked in the house burned holes in the couch lipstick circled butts in the ashtray she saved in Folgers cans swore credit was a scam bought everything at Sears on layaway she was Ford over a Chevy Pepsi over co Coke country or western Owens or Jones that kitchen radio was playing loud she smoked in the house wouldn't throw nothing out she'd cut the mold off cantaloupe and cheese the farmer's almanac told her when to plant petunias potatoes in peas she.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Was never take a hand out always.

[Brandi Clark]

Stand up for the flight black country and western Loretta and hag and that kitchen radio was singing loud and I hate cigarettes but I miss all that smoke.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

My grandma blew back when I.

[Brandi Clark]

Grew up with her in that radio she smoked in the house she laughed and crushed one out light another put coffee in her cream and it's 1984 and I'm asking for one more story I see her in my dreams.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Brandi Clark.

[Interviewer/Producer]

So this is your fourth studio album and this one's self titled, even though it's number four. Why did it make sense for this one to be self titled?

[Brandi Clark]

You know, I think originally the idea for me was to call this record Northwest because Brandi Carlisle, who produced it, when she approached me about Us making a record. She said, I see it as your return to the Northwest because a lot of people don't know this because I've lived in Nashville for so long, but I'm from, I'm from Washington state and that was so intriguing to me. And so I actually went to the Northwest with a co writer of mine, Jesse Joe Dillon, and we wrote a song called Northwest, thinking it would be the title of the album. But as we got into the record, making the record, it was just, it was bigger than just Northwest. It really was. This record takes me back to not only home, literally, but figuratively, why I ever wanted to make music. Things are stripped back, you know, I recorded the songs that I just really loved. You know, I mean there were other people, other voices involved in choosing the songs and other voices involved in creating the songs. But these were the songs that I love and that resonate, that resonated with me. And it was actually Brandi Carlile who pointed that out. She said, you know, this record, all these songs, I. When I hear them, I feel like you wrote them in your bedroom. And so they're just. There wasn't one song that summed it up. And I've never had a self titled album and I think it was my manager who said, I think this is, this is the time to self title a record.

[Alison Stewart]

We actually have the song Northwest pulled. What would you like people to listen for in this track?

[Brandi Clark]

Wow. I mean I love this track. It's kind of rocking and every place in this. Here's a funny thing. The second verse starts out with Lewis county login show. In my hometown they have a login show every year. Logging show. But when I say login show, so many people have said to me, I love that you reference a Kenny logging show. So I just want when people, if you want to come sing this at my shows and we can change it to Kenny Loggins show. But it is Lewis county login show. And you know, I guess the most poignant lyric to me is in this is hickory shirts will pay the bills. Because my dad and so many of my friends dads growing up wore hickory shirts to work. They were loggers. And so that. That's probably the most important lyric I think in the song.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear from Brandy Clark. This is northw.

[Brandi Clark]

St. Helen's ashes, evergreen forever Raining in my dreams I don't need a picture to remember T River rolling back behind our house of all the byways I've been down Highway 508 knows me the best the compass in My heart still points northwest the trees.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Roll mountains all course of summer feels like fall and running eagles.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Thomas Stiefler worked as a long time for other artists written songs for their artist. Toby Keith, Reba McEntire, Sheryl Crow. I can go on and on. How do you know when you want to hold on to a song for you?

[Brandi Clark]

When the thought of somebody else singing it is one I don't like. You know, when I think, oh, I have to have that song for me. I want to point out one other thing about that song that I just realized when it says St. Helens Ashes, Evergreen. This is the anniversary of the eruption of Mount St. Helens.

[Interviewer/Producer]

All right, there's a third one that's going to happen during the course of this interview. We've got Grandma Ruth's birthday.

[Brandi Clark]

Well, yeah, Grandma Ruth's birthday was the day Mount St. Helens erupted. But anyway, sorry to digress back to that. It just this. It just feels, I don't know, otherworldly that those. Those coincidences are happening today. Feels kind of blessed. But, yeah, when I know usually, and a lot of times I know it right when I write it, there are several songs on this record that. That never got played for anybody because I was like, that's for me. And there were songs on this record that were written just for me because a lot of days I'm just writing songs. You know, I'm just. I'm. I'm around. I'm on this earth. I think one of the reasons I'm on this earth is to write songs. And so I'm writing songs most every day if I'm not doing something like this. And so a lot of days I am just writing songs. And they. They might not be for me, they might be for someone else, but. But there are those days where I know they're for me.

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Well, when you're just writing songs, you're put on the earth to be a storyteller and to write down people's stories, whether they're your stories or stories of people you observed or moments that maybe a song can immortalize that otherwise it might be fleeting and no one would never know that this thing happened.

[Brandi Clark]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Producer]

When you think about this album, your last record, your life as a record you called a breakup record.

[Brandi Clark]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Producer]

How would you describe this one if you had to give it a subtitle? Brandi Clark Colon.

[Brandi Clark]

I would say Brandi Clark, the Next Chapter. You know, this is definitely a step for me in a different direction. And I know I've mentioned her already, but Brandi Carlisle was a huge part of that step. You know, she said to me, I really feel like you are a unique artist in that you straddle these worlds of country and Americana, and. And I think you need to take a bold step, and I think I'm part of that step, and I think a big part of that step is to step further into the Americana space, and I can help you do that sonically. And she really did. I think you hear it in songs like Northwest, so I would say this is Brandi Clark, the Next Chapter, a bold new step.

[Alison Stewart]

How did they keep the two of you straight in the studio? Because you're both B.C.

[Brandi Clark]

B.C.

[Alison Stewart]

And both Brandy.

[Brandi Clark]

Yeah, well, you know, she's the I and I'm the Y. But our managers, when they would. When they would have emails about us, they would call us Lynn. That's my middle name. And Marie is her. So. Lynn and Marie.

[Alison Stewart]

So you've obviously had music come out, not during a pandemic. What difference did you notice in the way people responded to your music in the pandemic during the pandemic, as opposed to other times when you've released music?

[Brandi Clark]

Well, you know, I think that people really needed the music that was coming. I mean, people always need music, but it was a different sort of need right then. And I now, you know, now that we're coming out of that pandemic, I think I feel that more now than I did then, because one thing that was difficult for me as an artist, and I'm sure I haven't talked about this to a lot of other artists, but I'm sure I'm not alone in this, was we were performing to a computer screen, you know, because for me, when the world shut down, I was promoting an album and so instantly pivoted into doing as much as we could that way. And even some festivals I was a part of, they would send us kits with. With cameras so we could stream our performance. And I didn't realize just how much I need that audience. I need them as much as they need my music. And that was. That was one of the gifts that I learned in the pandemic was, oh, wow, I knew I loved that part of it, but. But I don't think I realized just how much I need that part of it until then. And so I learned that. And I think now coming out of this, hearing fans tell me stories of, oh, you know, your life as a record got me through the first part of the pandemic. I've heard that from more than a handful of people.

[Alison Stewart]

What Music or culture got you through the pandemic.

[Brandi Clark]

You know, this is crazy, but at the beginning of it, I had a book club. My whole plan. I was going to do this book club. I'm so. I mean, I'm just so rock star that I would do a book club on. On tour. But I was going to do soundcheck parties, and we were going to have a book every month because I'm a. I'm a voracious reader. And we were even going to have coffee. We were going to have. The guy who was playing drums for me was a great barista, and he was going to make coffee during soundcheck, and that fell apart. And so we. We just did the book club online. And so many of the people who were participants in the book club said, we need to read Untamed. Glennon Doyle. Not the kind of book I would typically read, but that book, really, it got me through. And then there was another book. I think it's called Valentine. I hate that. I can't remember that. That's for sure, the title. But I think it was Valentine. One of my favorite books I've ever read. But those two books, especially Untamed, because it really did uplift me in a time where, man, we were all feeling like we were under a cloud.

[Alison Stewart]

My entire team's eyes just got really big when you said you have a book club. Because we have a book club called get lit, which is a partnership with the New York Public Library. And we always have music at our book clubs. So we'll be giving you a ring next time you're passing through to be. Rosanne Cash has been our musical guest. Laurie Anderson. We've had some really amazing people, so.

[Interviewer/Producer]

That'S an open invitation.

[Brandi Clark]

Yes. Anytime you let me know, because I don't have to be passing through. I can make the trip for it. I. I love books so much. In fact, I just. You know, I was talking to, actually, my hairdresser about how I haven't had a book in a while that I couldn't put down. And I love. There's nothing I love more than sitting here in this interview and thinking, I can't wait until I have that hour break so I can open that book up again. And she turned me onto a book. It's not a new book, and I'm sure you've probably read it called Demon, Copperhead.

[Alison Stewart]

We had Barbara Kingsolver on. It's so good.

[Brandi Clark]

I've never read any of her books, and I don't know why until now. And I I mean, I'm sure I'm gonna have to fight people, but I might be her number one fan. That book, it's riveting. Absolutely riveting. I'm not done with it, but, man, it's just one. I cried the other night, and I don't cry. Books don't make me cry a lot. That book made me cry.

[Interviewer/Producer]

I've got one for you when you're done.

[Brandi Clark]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Producer]

It's the one we're reading this month. Lone Women, about female homesteaders in 1915 in Montana with secrets.

[Brandi Clark]

I love that.

Lone. Just the title.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Lone Women.

[Alison Stewart]

We're here to talk about your record.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Brandi Clark is my guest.

[Alison Stewart]

The new album comes out tomorrow. Can we hear another song as we go to break?

[Brandi Clark]

You bet. So this one, do you want the story behind it or.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[Brandi Clark]

Okay. So this is a song I wrote. I was out on a writing trip in la, and I was set up to write with a guy named Michael Pollock, who I'd never written with. And I was on the way to the right. And I always want to. When I'm writing with somebody for the first time, I always want to bring in something great. And I didn't really feel like I had anything great. And I was in the car and something happened with another person, and my feelings were really hurt. And so I'm sitting there in that LA traffic, caught between tears and anger, but wanting to stay focused on the right. And I remembered something that a really good friend of mine always says, which is insecurity is the ugliest human emotion. When someone is mean to you, it's usually their insecurity. And so then I started to get past the hurt of what had happened and started to think about my own insecurities and the things in my life that they got in the way that they get in the way of. And I thought, wouldn't that be something to write a. Write a letter to? Insecurity. And so that's where this started. And so Michael and I wrote the song, and then when we sat down to make the record, Brandi had the idea of, could we make this a duet? And I loved that idea. And she had a very specific female artist. She wanted to be my duet partner on it, but she said, I'll sing it today while we're recording it. So we sang it, and it was magic. And I knew it was magic in the room. But then when I took the board mix and was listening that night, I thought, oh, I'm in trouble because I want this to be Brandy. And I love the magic that's going on between us and we're similar age and come from a similar space and we have similar insecurities and it just feels so real for us to sing this. And so the next day I I had this whole argument to try to get her to. To do it and I said I just want it to be you and me. It just touches me. And she said, oh buddy, that's all you had to. All you had to do is ask. And so on the record it's, it's our scratch vocals. Of course she's not here today so I'm going to just do it as a non duet. But it's. It's called Dear Insecurity.

Dear insecurity oh we meet again don't try to flirt with me.

You'Re not.

Really my friend but you take up half this bed living rent free in my head all insecurity you show up.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

In my mirror point out the worst.

[Brandi Clark]

In me.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

You whisper in my ear.

[Brandi Clark]

That my lips are way too thin too many miles on my skin if.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

I can't find a way to get.

[Brandi Clark]

You gone.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Can we find a way.

[Brandi Clark]

To get along along along you're careless.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

And you're cruel and oh you're mindless maybe you could try a little kindness.

[Brandi Clark]

Instead of hurting me all insecurity.

Now.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Where did you come from your immaturity.

[Brandi Clark]

It'S the thing I can outrun you're.

A mean girl you're a bully and I hope you're having.

Cause insecurity.

You.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Try on all my clothes it just.

[Brandi Clark]

Occurred to me.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

That you may live.

[Brandi Clark]

In my phone you tell me I don't fit in push me close to.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Quitting if I can't find a way.

[Brandi Clark]

To get you gone.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Can we find.

[Brandi Clark]

A way to get along along along.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Careless and you're cruel and oh you're mindless maybe you could try a little.

[Brandi Clark]

Kindness instead of hurting me cause insecurity this time feels like love she's really sure of me.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

So please don't mess.

[Brandi Clark]

This up if you cut in on this dance I may never get another chance I'll never find a way to get you gone.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Wish I could find.

[Brandi Clark]

A way to know you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong you're careless and you're.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Cruel and oh you're mindless maybe you.

[Brandi Clark]

Could try a little kindness instead of hurting me.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Why you hurtin me?

[Brandi Clark]

Insecurity.

[Alison Stewart]

That was Brandi Clark. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll have more with Brandi Clark and hear all about her work on the hit musical Shucked. This is all of it.

[Interviewer/Producer]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stan and we're back with.

[Alison Stewart]

Singer, songwriter and now Broadway vet Brandi Clark.

[Interviewer/Producer]

As we heard earlier, Clark has a new album out and she's now a.

[Alison Stewart]

Tony nominee this season for her work on the Broadway musical Shucked, a project she and her longtime songwriting partner Shane McNally began more than a decade ago. Shucked is about a tiny town that is rocked when its main cash crop suddenly fails. Everyone panics when all the corn in Cobb county mysteriously begins to wilt. It means trouble with a capital T that rhymes with C and that stands for corn. These folks, they're Shucked. So a headstrong gal named Maisie heads.

[Interviewer/Producer]

To the big city, Tampa, obviously in.

[Alison Stewart]

Search of help, and she recruits a corn doctor, as in the ones on your feet, to come back with her. And he agrees because he has a shady agenda and a mint green leisure suit. Clark co wrote the music and lyrics for the show. Here's a number where the locals explain to the city slicker visitor what they really care about. Here's a clip of the song we love Jesus.

[Cast Member from Shucked]

We go to church on Sunday twice and even on a Wednesday night so our chances into the early days are tripled. That leaves us five old days in all kinds of crazy to get in.

[Brandi Clark]

Yeah, we love Jesus but we drink a little, a little too much, a.

[Cast Member from Shucked]

Little too often we get started there's no stopping when someone busts out and.

[Alison Stewart]

The or.

[Cast Member from Shucked]

We turn water into wine we turn corn into.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Feel good Production has been the surprise hit of the season, winning over critics and audiences alike. Lin Manuel Miranda posted. I haven't laughed this hard at a musical since Avenue Q. Brandi Clark is with me in studio. So Shucked began as a very different kind of project. It had a Hee Haw origin story.

[Brandi Clark]

Yes, it started out the way that Shane McEnally and I got involved was Steve Buchanan, who used to run the Opry. I guess it was Gaylord and it was Opry. He was interviewing teams of songwriters to potentially write the Hee Haw musical. And he really wanted the musical to feel authentic to country and roots music. So he wanted to use actual Nashville country songwriters. And so we met with Robert Horn, the book writer, and he chose us. Actually, it's funny that you would play We Love Jesus because he chose us based on a song Shane and I had written on my first record, 12 stories called Pray to Jesus. And he said, I want this. This is the tone. And so Shane and I knew how to do that. And so we started working on it. It became very evident very quickly that Hee Haw just did not test well with Broadway audiences. So the show became Moonshine, that Hee Haw musical. We opened it in Dallas in, I think, 2015, 2016, got mixed reviews, and the show kind of fell apart. And then Steve retired from the Opry, and so we kind of. We thought it was over. And then Robert Horne won the Tony for Tootsie. He wrote the book for the musical Tootsie, and so he had all of this attention on him, and people wanted to know what he wanted to do next. And lucky for us, he said this show. And so we kind of started over, and a new producer, Mike Bosner, came in, brought in Jack o', Brien, who's a legend, directed Hairspray, among many, many things, and Jack really inspired us to write an almost completely new score. And we happened upon Shucked. I remember there were some different titles flying around Cobb county, usa, you know, all this. And then. And somebody came up with Shucked, and it just stuck, and we became the Korn musical. It's crazy. I've never been involved in something that has been so overwhelmingly joyous as this show in this process.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you know about making theater.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Now that you didn't know before and.

[Alison Stewart]

You could never know from the outside?

[Brandi Clark]

Wow. Well, just, you know, someone told. Told me when I stepped into this, you know, musicals aren't written, they're rewritten. And I believed them, but not to the extent that that's really true. I mean, I think all of us, except maybe Robert, if somebody would have told us in 2012, hey, it's going to be 10 years for you guys to get into a Broadway rehearsal room. I don't know that we would have jumped on that train. And so I'm glad they didn't, that we didn't know that part, because it took every day of those 10. For Robert, it was longer than 10 years. But for Shane and I, every day of those 10 years to get to where we got it.

[Alison Stewart]

When you were writing the music for Shucked, what part of your experience as a country music writer was helpful? And then what part of it did you have to put aside to write a musical?

[Brandi Clark]

Oh, that's a great question. It was the same thing. Storytelling. I think my strength as a songwriter is storytelling, whether I'm telling someone else's story or my own. But what Shane and I both were great at was telling lifelong stories in three minutes, and so we have two and a half hours to tell the story. And so we need to tell little bits and pieces of that story from different perspectives. So I think we both got better at that, at telling just a little bit of the story. The other part that we didn't know up front is how much the story was going to change and how when it would change, it would require us to maybe go back and either rewrite or just write nine new songs. You know, there's so much of that. And you're working with a team. You're working with not only a director, but a choreographer, a music director who we have a guy named Jason Hallen is our music director and a woman named Sarah Ogleby is our choreographer. And they have been integral in the process. We wouldn't have these songs without those two people. You know, sometimes there were things that Sarah needed that Shane and I would have to figure out how to do in song, and there were things that the stage needed that Shane and I had no idea how to do that Jason Howland would know how to musicalize and bring to life.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Brandi Clark.

[Interviewer/Producer]

She has a new album out and she's nominated for a Tony for best.

[Alison Stewart]

Original score for Shucked. Now, on the flip side of writing songs for musical.

[Interviewer/Producer]

There's a song in here which I heard right away. I thought I could hear this on country radio in a second.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you know which one?

[Brandi Clark]

I'm gonna say Somebody Will.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes.

[Brandi Clark]

Everybody says that, you know, and I don't know why that is. And I always hear not to cast it, but I'm going to. I always hear Blake Shelton singing it. That's. That's who. When I. When I hear it. We wrote that song specifically for Andrew Durand, who plays the character of Bo. I remember we were having a reading and Jack felt like we needed a new song for Bo, and that's what we, you know, something to toughen him up. And that's what we wrote.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Let's hear a little bit of Somebody Will from Shucked.

[WNYC Studios Host]

If you ask me, I turned out okay. My dogs are fed and my soul is saved I'm a damn good man with my hands in the field if she don't want me, will somebody will yeah, somebody will.

[Cast Member from Shucked]

Oh, yeah well, I'm.

[WNYC Studios Host]

Pretty good looking if you look around here I can skin a bucket Never spill my beer I pay for dinner and I open up the door Manners like that don't matter no more I'm an old fashioned guy in an old fashioned world up until now I had an old fashioned girl. I'm a damn good man.

[Interviewer/Producer]

That's somebody Will from the musical Shucked. My guest is Brandi Clark. So there's a nod to the multicultural casting in the play. The diversity, gender, race, sexual orientation. There's a non binary black lead. This all takes place in a part of the country that might be called Murica.

[Brandi Clark]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Producer]

What do you think is the subtext of the show beyond the really hilarious puns and the toe tapping tunes?

[Brandi Clark]

You know, I think it's that the corn is a euphemism for growth and the corn dies because the town is stuck in their ways and they don't want to let outsiders and outside ideas in. And so I think the underlying message is that you need to. You need to be open to new people and new ideas, even if they don't look like you or sound like you. And I think really the overriding message there's a song, and it's my favorite song in the show called maybe Love, is that maybe love just needs a little love. And maybe if we would treat people who are different than us with love first instead of hate or indifference, we might be able to grow some corn.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Before we got on the air, we were talking about I told you that I went to see it and people were dressed up, that we had some gingham shirts, a little bit of cosplay going on. You've heard the same? Yes.

[Brandi Clark]

Oh, I've seen it. You know, the first night of the first preview, there was a guy that was there in a corn costume. And then the next night I see a few more corn costumes. And then a couple nights later, this girl walks in in a carrot costume. And I just love that I was sharing with you before. To me, it's taking on a very Rocky Horror Picture show sort of cult following, which I never would have guessed. And it makes me so happy you've.

[Interviewer/Producer]

Been kind enough to agree to play one of the songs from show.

[Brandi Clark]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What are you gonna play?

[Brandi Clark]

So I'm gonna play a song called Friends and this is actually a duet. I'm not gonna sing it as a duet, clearly, but between our two lead women, Maisy and Lulu, who are played by Caroline Enerbichler. And then as you mentioned, we have a non binary lead in Alex Newell. I cannot sing this as well as either of them, but I'm going to give it my best.

It's hard to say I'm sorry. It's hard to say I'm wrong when it's been so easy for us to get along for all my best intentions. I'm the one who's built a wall. If we're being honest, I've been known to know it all. Truth is I just love you. And with everything we've lost I couldn't.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Stand to lose you.

[Brandi Clark]

Cause each other's all we've got. So let's not waste a minute being mad and keeping score. Could you just forgive me? If you'll forgive me more?

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Sometimes I call you crazy. Sometimes I call you out. Sometimes I call you up at 2am I call you when you're happy or when you're missing your daddy.

[Brandi Clark]

I have to call your family but I get to call you friend. My best friend.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

I'll be yours until the end. Blood is thick and whiskey's thin when.

[Brandi Clark]

We'Re together, together, friend, my old friend.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Ins and outs and outs and ends. We've been family all our lives but we'll be friends?

[Brandi Clark]

Friends forever. We've all got our secrets we wish nobody knew.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

I'm so glad that I'm the one.

[Brandi Clark]

You'Ve always told them to? I'd give you my happy if it made you happy more you know I'd never take it. What's mine is always yours.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Sometimes I call you sister, Sister from another mister. Cause you've always got an ear that you can lend. You're my most prized possession since my since mama went to heaven.

[Brandi Clark]

I have to call your family but I get to call you friend? My best friend.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

I'll be yours until the end.

[Brandi Clark]

Blood is thick and whiskey's thin when we're together, friend, my old friend.

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

Ins and outs and outs and ins. We've been family all our lives but we'll be friends?

[Brandi Clark]

Friends forever?

[Brandi Clark (singing parts)]

We've been family all our lives but.

[Brandi Clark]

We'Ll be friends, Friends forever.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with Brandi Clark, who is nominated in six different categories at this year's Grammys. The awards are this Sunday. Up next, poet Aja Monet will talk about her album when the Poems do what they do, which is nominated for best spoken word poetry album. This is all of it.