Buddy Drama 'Twinless' With Dylan O'Brien & James Sweeney

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Buddy Drama 'Twinless' With Dylan O'Brien & James Sweeney”

Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guests: James Sweeney (Writer, Director, & Star), Dylan O’Brien (Actor)
Date: February 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Alison Stewart speaks with James Sweeney and Dylan O'Brien about their film Twinless, which was recognized at the Independent Spirit Awards for its nuanced exploration of grief, friendship, masculinity, and loneliness. Sweeney, who wrote, directed, and starred in the film, joins O'Brien (who plays both twins Rocky and Roman) to discuss their creative process, the inspiration behind the movie, and their approach to complex characters dealing with profound loss.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inspiration and Cultural Fascination with Twins

• James Sweeney's lifelong interest in twins
  • Sweeney shares that he "always wanted a twin" and even dated an identical twin in his twenties, which influenced the writing of Twinless after that relationship ended (02:45).
  • He expresses the cultural presence of twins—referencing Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen and Sister, Sister—and their connection to the idea of “the perfect best friend.”
  • Quote:

    “I think it sort of encapsulated the idea of the perfect best friend. Somebody who wanted to share your clothes and do all the activities you wanted to do. And that was very appealing to me at the time.”
    — James Sweeney (03:08)

2. Dylan O'Brien's Initial Reaction and Process

• First reading the script
  • O'Brien describes being "immediately so taken by it." He emphasizes the script’s humor and emotional depth as major draws for him (03:56).
  • Quote:

    "...I couldn’t put it down, you know, I absolutely devoured it, choked it down, and then couldn’t wait to see who this guy was. And we still haven’t met."
    — Dylan O’Brien (05:05)

  • O'Brien also watched Sweeney’s previous film the same night to get a sense of his style and was impressed.

3. Casting and Chemistry

• Sweeney’s casting background and reasoning

  • Sweeney discusses how his experience in casting shaped his view that "it doesn't matter how good an actor is… If they are right for the part, they are right for the part" (06:36).
  • He emphasizes choosing O'Brien for not just his dramatic and comedic talents, but their real-life chemistry, crucial for a small, independent film.

• Collaboration and partnership

  • Their mutual respect and friendship developed over the long pre-production period, leading to authentic on-screen chemistry.

4. Approaching the Theme of Grief and Research

• O’Brien on preparing for twin roles
  • O'Brien admits to not doing extensive research into twins, focusing instead on the universal themes of loss, grief, and humanity that anchor the story (07:19).
  • They discuss the existence of actual support groups for twins and the story’s inspiration from these real-life spaces.

5. Navigating Directing, Writing, and Acting

• Sweeney’s internal conflicts
  • Sweeney describes the decision anxiety between his roles as writer, director, and actor—like including a necessary but vulnerable sex scene (09:00).
  • O’Brien echoes the vulnerability, both physical and emotional.

6. Friendship, Masculinity, and Loneliness

• Complex portrayals of male friendship and loneliness
  • Sweeney:

    “These are two people who both carry a lot of shame and regret and they are both searching for solace in their own individual ways… The film explores friendship and masculinity in a very contemporary way...” (10:00)

  • On loneliness:

    “I think loneliness is a killer. I think the science supports that. I think what we see in this film is a place where loneliness leads to desperation.”
    — James Sweeney (10:56)

  • O'Brien shares how his character (Roman) lives in his brother’s shadow, admiring Rocky's “fearlessness” and “infectious popularity” (12:51).

7. Constructing Dual Characters (Rocky and Roman)

• Creating distinct identities for the twins

  • O’Brien was intentional in differentiating Roman (“a little dim but lovely”) from Rocky (gay, extroverted, worldly).
  • He worked with the hair and wardrobe departments to reflect their differing journeys and personalities (11:55–12:39).

• Nuance and spectrum of masculinity

  • Sweeney and O'Brien had deep conversations about masculinity, performative femininity, and how these factors play into the characters’ public and private selves (13:53).

8. Trust and Creative Freedom

• Collaborative approach and mutual trust

  • O'Brien values the “permission” Sweeney gave him as a director, fostering confidence and authenticity in the performance.
  • Quote:

    “The thing he said about permission is the greatest gift that you can receive from your filmmaker.”
    — Dylan O’Brien (15:21–15:39)

• Long creative process

  • The project took four years to come to fruition, allowing the script and real-life friendship to deepen, ultimately benefitting the film’s chemistry and depth (16:44–17:01).
  • Sweeney notes all actors in the support group (including extras) are real twins, adding authenticity (17:01).

9. Narrative Structure and Editing Challenges

• Strategic reveal of information
  • Sweeney explains that the film’s structure, especially when to reveal certain information, evolved into a "Jenga puzzle"—balancing suspense and surprise like a Hitchcock film (18:34–20:03).
  • Major edits were made (removing 50 minutes of footage!) to maintain pacing while ensuring interconnected plot points stayed intact.

10. Response from the Twin Community

• Feedback from twins
  • O'Brien shares that feedback from actual twins has been positive and affirming—they feel his portrayal is authentic rather than distracting (20:10).

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On desire for a twin:

  “It was a repeated request that I gave to my parents that was also repeatedly denied.”
  — James Sweeney (02:47)

• On how fast Dylan O’Brien read the script:

  “Yeah, I devoured it.”
  — Dylan O’Brien (04:55)

• On loneliness and danger:

  “I think loneliness is a killer. I think the science supports that. I think what we see in this film is a place where loneliness leads to desperation… Love can make you do crazy things.”
  — James Sweeney (10:56)

• On creative trust:

  “The thing he said about permission is the greatest gift that you can receive from your filmmaker.”
  — Dylan O’Brien (15:21–15:39)

• On friendship’s importance:

  “Our own friendship parlayed into the chemistry between the characters that you see on screen.”
  — James Sweeney (17:01)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:45 – Sweeney discusses fascination with twins and the film’s personal origins.
• 03:56 – O’Brien recalls how he first read and responded to the script.
• 06:36 – Sweeney on how casting experience influenced his approach.
• 07:19 – O'Brien on researching twins (or not).
• 09:00–09:52 – Sweeney and O’Brien discuss sex scene and vulnerability.
• 10:00–10:54 – Exploring male friendship, masculinity, and loneliness.
• 11:56–12:51 – O’Brien and Sweeney on differentiating Rocky and Roman.
• 13:53–14:44 – Discussing masculinity, identity, and performance.
• 16:44–17:01 – Four-year production timeline and its benefits.
• 18:34–20:03 – Narrative structure, editing challenges, and strategic reveals.
• 20:10–21:01 – Feedback from twins on the film’s authenticity.

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Summary Takeaway

Twinless is a film that deeply examines loss, friendship, masculinity, and loneliness through the unique but relatable lens of twinhood. The episode highlights the thoughtful collaboration, vulnerability, and authentic storytelling brought forth by Sweeney and O'Brien. Their creative process was marked by trust, open communication, and a commitment to nuanced, truthful performance, resulting in a film that resonates with universal human experiences and has earned praise from the community it represents.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Today we're talking about some of the films that were recognized at this year's Independent Spirit Awards. The awards were held last night. Now we'll turn our attention to Twinless, which centers the characters Dennis and Roman as unlikely friends. Roman is a quiet gym rat who loves hockey and admits he's not, quote, the brightest tool in the shed. He meant the brightest bulb. Dennis is a smartish, self contained man, maybe a little lonely until he makes friends with Roman. Dennis and Roman meet in a grief support group specifically for twins who've lost a sibling. Roman's brother Rocky was an extroverted guy who traveled the world before he was hit by a car. Dennis shares that his twin died in an accident on his way to pick up Dennis from the airport. Soon, Dennis and Roman become best friends, bonded in grief despite their differences. But it turns out Dennis might have some ulterior motives for getting to know Roman and he might know more about Rocky's death than he lets on. Twinless was written and directed by James Sweeney, who also stars as Dennis, and actor Dylan o' Brien plays twins Rocky and Roman. The film was nominated for best feature and best Screenplay at this year's Independent Spirit Awards, and Dylan was nominated for his leading performance. When James and Dylan joined us on all of it to talk about the film, I asked James why he was interested in making a movie about twins.

[C]

Well, I always wanted a twin. It was a repeated request that I gave to my parents that was also repeatedly Denied. I did date an identical twin in my 20s, and I wrote the first draft shortly after he broke up with me. But I think he's alive, to be clear. But I do think the fascination with twins came from a place of seeing twins imprinted in my cultural landscape, from Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen to Sister. Sister. I think it sort of encapsulated the idea of the perfect best friend. Somebody who wanted to share your clothes and do all the activities you wanted to do. And that was very appealing to me at the time.

[B]

I have to ask you, in the screen, there's a. There's, like, a man over your shoulder.

[D]

Really?

[C]

Yes. A mannequin.

[B]

Who is that?

[D]

Yeah, he's in his apartment.

[B]

I think so. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, that's his mannequin. It's his mannequin, yeah.

[B]

Oh, okay. Just one without a desk. As long as we're making fun.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So, Dylan, can you describe where you were when you first read the script?

[D]

Yeah, I was at my home in Los Angeles at the time. I live here now. It's so funny. That's the first location question. I've gotten so far on where I was when I first read it, but that's where I first took it in. I think I was outside. Nothing. Nothing like an outdoor read. And, I mean, I just was immediately so taken by it. It was such a complete script. It was such a wild ride. I felt like it was so beautifully written. I really felt like I understood the humor in the voice overall, but. But just, like, loved that and was really struck by the emotional through line, which, for me is, like, such a combination that I enjoy in films. And anytime you get to be a part of something like that, it's so special. So, yeah. And then I watched James's first film later that night that he directed and wrote and was in as well, and I thought it was fantastic.

[B]

Did you read it in one sitting?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I devoured it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Why? Yeah, yeah. Why do. Instead of, like, the walk away, walk away? Well, that's never a good sign.

[B]

That's not a good sign, really.

[C]

Right.

[D]

I mean, I would think so. I couldn't put it down, you know, I absolutely devoured it, choked it down, and then couldn't wait to see who this guy was. And we still haven't met.

[C]

James.

[B]

What convinced you that Dylan was the right person for these two parts?

[C]

Well, I used to work in casting as my day job, so I do feel like I have an affinity for seeing the potential for actors maybe outside of their previous work, because I Think sometimes Hollywood can. I don't think this is a surprise. Any listeners lack imagination. So I am familiar with the dramatic and comedic versatility in his filmography. But really the thing that was sort of the.

[B]

The.

[C]

Yes. Was just meeting him and seeing what kind of person he was. Because I knew this is a small independent film and it was really our chemistry that would make or break this film. And I was looking for a partner in crime and he turned to be. Turned out to be all that and more. And, yeah, it's sort of, in retrospect, was extremely fortuitous how it all aligned.

[B]

That's interesting that you worked in casting. What did you learn in casting that you were able to put to use in this film?

[C]

Well, I think one lesson I learned is that I would see a lot of very talented actors come in who would just be wrong for a part. And so it was not necessarily a strong performance. And that really sort of concretize this idea that it doesn't matter how good an actor is or how maybe not good an actor you might think they are. If they are right for the part, they are right for the part. And I think that's. I think we have a tendency to think that talent is fixed, but I think it's. It's really a lot more subjective than that.

[D]

That's so true. Mike White does this really well. Mike White casts really well. It is a science.

[B]

What kind of research, Dylan, did you do into twins?

[D]

That's really interesting. It might be unpopular to say not a ton.

[C]

We.

[D]

You know, I think the amazing thing about the themes in the story, I mean, we certainly had our own specific thoughts in terms of, like, twin grieving. And that obviously is such a unique type of loss. These groups, these support groups really do exist. It's. It was the initial impetus for the screenplay for James. But I think we definitely have our own specific feelings in terms of. We've been asked if we entered any of those support groups. That was not something that I felt comfortable doing or felt would be appropriate. But in terms of the themes in this film, they're entirely universal, as well as also being obviously such a fundamentally unique experience and type of loss on this earth. I think that was what was such a intriguing part of the role to me and the film as a whole was that, you know, here was this kind of device used and honored truly, like this twin relationship in existence. Right. And loss by somebody who held a deep interest in that. And the universal themes of humanity that kind of came from that I thought were really beautiful and really resonated with me.

[B]

James, you're a writer, director and actor. In the film, directors always, that's their job is to make decisions. That's a big part of direction. What is decision that you had to make that maybe the writer wouldn't have agreed with or the actor wouldn't agree with it, but the director said, we're doing it.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Well, I actually am somebody who has a lot of decision anxiety, which is, I think, part of what I like about directing because it forces me to make decisions. I mean, to be blunt, there is a sex scene in the film, which as a director, I feel was very necessary as an actor. Made me a bit self conscious.

[D]

That's true. Those were opposing forces, really.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[D]

Yeah, for sure. Tell Me More was a very naked physically and vulnerable. Vulnerable thing to do, obviously. But yeah, he knew as he. The filmmaker, he knew what he wanted and he knew that it certainly wasn't gratuitous and it was so right for the sequence and for the film and how he wanted to capture it. So it was. It was interesting watching him toe that line.

[B]

James, how would you describe the friendship between these two men in your film?

[C]

I think these are two people who both carry a lot of shame and regret and they are both searching for solace in their own individual ways. And while they are so different, I think they are very complimentary. I think we see them lift each other up at various points throughout the film. And while, you know, the. The film overall takes some twists and turns and I wouldn't necessarily point to this as a role model of male friendship, I do think the film expl friendship and masculinity in a very contemporary way that I think there's a lot to dissect there.

[B]

James, this movie is a lot about loneliness. I do want to say it's funny, though. I do have to say that it is funny, but it is a lot about loneliness and what can happen when someone is really lonely. What do you think can be so dangerous about loneliness?

[D]

Hmm.

[C]

Well, I think loneliness is a killer. I think the science supports that. I think what we see in this film is a place where loneliness leads to desperation. I think people who are so yearning for intimacy, when that doesn't meet their expectations, it can. Love can make you do crazy things.

[B]

Crazy things. Dylan, you spend most of the film as Roman. He's just a sweet guy. He's just a little dim, but he's really lovely. And you also play his brother Rocky, who is gay and is much more extroverted and Speaks Japanese, and he's quite extraordinary. He also has a big mustache. We should say that.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

What went into the process for creating this second character? Testosterone. And.

[D]

For creating Rocky.

[C]

Yeah, a lot.

[D]

I mean, there was a lot of conversation with James, and we also had a great team of department heads in the ground who obviously all contribute their ideas. When we're having the hair makeup discussions, we're having the wardrobe. I remember being a huge day for me, as it, like, tends to be depending on the character, especially when that's, like, a real huge part of their expression.

[C]

Right.

[D]

I think for Rocky, I really wanted that to be the case, and. Yeah. Just sort of signifying his worldly experiences and his journey and evolution versus kind of what we see in his brother, which is a lot more stunted.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And I think contributes to the. The dimness that you reference. Right. And we've been trying to find the word to describe this type of thing too. It's so hard.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's not. You don't want to sound awful.

[D]

Well, certainly. And I also don't think that he's, like, not a smart human being. Right. It's like. It's a representation of experience on this earth and, like, evolution as a human. Right. And I think so much of the insecurity that he feels and felt his whole life in the shadow of his brother was this. You know, Rocky had this fearlessness about him, and he. He took on the world. He took on who he was inside. He wanted to experience all of it, you know, and. And some people are. Are, I think, quicker to do that than others, you know, And I think. I think these sort of infectious popularity that Roman would always perceive from Rocky came from something that he very much so admired in him himself. You know what I mean?

[B]

James, what were you looking to draw out of Dylan in his performance as Rocky?

[D]

Hmm.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I mean, with the marionette strings.

[C]

I don't want to take too much credit, because I think Dylan resonated so deeply with. With Rocky and Roman. I mean, I think in terms of you asking a straight actor to play a queer character, the best thing I could do for Dylan was just give him permission and let him know that I trusted him and that he was in safe hands and that we were in this together. I think we talked a lot about how masculinity and performative femininity exists on a spectrum and how that can shape, depending on, I guess, the circumstances that you're in, who you behave as in public. You might code switch if you are in. In Private settings. And I think that played into the nuances of the character.

[B]

It sounded like Dylan that you guys just did a lot of talking.

[D]

A lot.

[B]

And I mean, in a good way.

[D]

Yes, we talk a lot.

[C]

We do.

[D]

And like, in an absolutely great way. I mean, communication is so paramount in this type of partnership of collaboration. And it lent itself to our production, especially it being four years of, like, occasional talking before we even got going. And then, you know, when we got on the ground. Yeah, all of these conversations were so inform. Informative, you know, for me, even though I had these guys percolating and swimming around in my brain for so long, which was an added benefit at that point. But James and I can talk for hours. And that is, you know, you learn a lot. I think we learn a lot from each other. And I think we love to talk about the world and our feelings about things. And it really helps. I mean, the thing he said about permission is the greatest gift that you can receive from your filmmaker. You know, and there's so many different shapes and sizes of sort of how people approach the directing position. A lot of people can be very handsy in your performance and sort of like constantly, almost out of insecurity, feeling.

[C]

Like they got to give you a.

[D]

Note every take or else what are they doing? They're going to look like they're doing something. You know what I mean? And there's just so. There's so much to be said for someone who has the confidence to, like, know what they want, be so precise in terms of his filmic execution, which I really appreciate, because I know within the confines of what the performance is being captured, that goes a long way for me. And then for the trust and permission and not always, you know, sometimes leaving me alone, take after take, which is, you know, nothing breeds confidence more than.

[B]

That it took four years for this to come to fruition. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, since I met Dylan, since I was a draft in 2015, what was.

[B]

Better about the film that it took four years to make?

[D]

That's a wonderful question.

[B]

What do you think?

[C]

I mean, you know, hindsight's 20 20, I think the, you know, just our own friendship, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Parlayed into the chemistry between the characters that you see on screen. I think just letting the. The themes and the script marinate. I. There was just a refinement process. Writing is rewriting, so I don't know, it kind of. It felt like all the things that went wrong turn to be happy. Accidents. And that is sort of the. The miracle of filmmaking in. And of itself. I have to aside for a second. I got excited when I heard your previous guest, Wycliffe John, talk about Tasha Smith directing his next music video. Because she is in our film. She's also an identical twin herself. And yeah, all the actors in our support group were twins, including the background talent. And that was like something that, you know, maybe wasn't an initial idea when I wrote the screenplay, but was something that sort of came to the foreground in the years of what can we do to make this feel authentic? What can we do to. Because I think for me, the thing I. The biggest thing I've taken away from this film is that process is everything. And we had a really. As hard as it was, we had a really lovely creative process.

[B]

Without giving too much away, we've been doing a good job of no spoilers.

[D]

Yeah, thanks.

[B]

By the way. Yeah. How did you decide when to reveal certain information about the main characters?

[D]

James, nicely done in terms of the.

[C]

That was a discreet question. Yes. So the very first draft of the script was not told with a perspective shift. I will say that was a major revision that happened once I met my producer, David permanent, which was motivated by me partially wanting to balance out the film because it is such a two hander. I think it's sort of. It's a bit like a Jenga puzzle. It's trying to deliver these plants and payoffs, which was also, to be frank, the maddening thing. Once we got to the edit, because it was so precisely constructed that to pace the film up and excise, we had to excise 50 minutes of footage to get to our eventual runtime, which is a lot, to be honest. And the trickiest part about that was if you. Because everything is connected and intentional, if when you lose something on the front end, it has a connective tissue to something later. So it's a bit of a snowball effect. So we had to be very careful with what information we were introducing and when and trying to keep the audience in suspense while also keeping them surprised. So sort of that classic Hitchcock conundrum. And we tried to have a little bit of. Excuse me, a Best of Both Worlds.

[B]

Dylan, have you heard from twins who have seen this movie and what have they been sharing with you.

[D]

Outside of screenings? Not much, but we've definitely had occasional pairs of twins at our screenings. We had several show up to the premiere, which was really cool. It's been mostly feedback that's been really positive. And in terms of, I guess, you know, my capturing of like the twin experience, I have gotten I don't know if they're just being nice, but so far it's been good in terms of, you know, at least them watching this, knowing that I'm not one myself and being able to take in the story and live in the world and not be bumped or taken out of it by my performance, you know, I mean, that's all I can ask for, to bring that type of humanity and authenticity so as not to distract them from the film.

[B]

That was my conversation with filmmaker and actor James Sweeney and his co star Dylan o'. Brien. The film is called Twinless, and it was nominated in three categories at this year's Independent Spirit Awards. Up next, we'll talk about another of this year's nominees. EFIs, the small town baseball movie about a recreational league preparing for one last game before their field is replaced by a school. We'll talk about it with filmmaker Carson Lund after a short break. This is all of it.

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[B]

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