Cameron Crowe on His Rock Memoir 'The Uncool'

Summary

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Podcast Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Cameron Crowe on His Rock Memoir 'The Uncool'
Date: December 16, 2025
Guest: Cameron Crowe, Oscar-winning screenwriter, director, and former Rolling Stone music journalist

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Episode Overview

This episode features a lively and intimate conversation with Cameron Crowe about his new memoir, The Uncool. Crowe recounts his experiences as a teenage music journalist in the 1970s, his journey through the world of rock and roll, the impact of family and loss, lessons learned from musical legends, and his ongoing relationship with creativity. The episode interweaves listener questions with Crowe's anecdotes, exploring what it means to love music, feel like an outsider, and ultimately find your place—even if it isn’t on stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of 'Uncool'

[01:26–02:22]

• Crowe addresses the irony of titling his memoir The Uncool despite his remarkable teenage achievements, explaining he never felt cool and identified with being an outsider.
• The title reflects how many musicians and music lovers he admired were also outcasts who found their community through shared passion for music.
• Quote:
  “So much of the music that I loved and the people that opened doors for me as a young journalist were similarly kind of outcasts growing up.” (Crowe, 01:41)

2. The Happy-Sad in Music and Life

[03:35–05:43]

• Crowe discusses the deep influence of his family, especially his late sister Kathy, whom he dedicates the book to.
• He describes how Kathy introduced him to music that evoked complex emotions, particularly the "happy-sad" quality (ex: The Beach Boys), shaping his taste and even his approach to storytelling.
• Crowe uses this emotional complexity as inspiration in both journalism and filmmaking.
• Quote:
  “It’s the thing that makes you appreciate the highs, those aching lows serve a purpose...and a great song can just transport you...that’s the passion of being a fan.” (Crowe, 05:13)

3. A Seismic Moment: Losing the Allman Brothers Tapes

[06:10–09:29]

• Listener Brian asks Crowe about a pivotal, traumatic moment when Greg Allman confiscated all of Crowe’s interview tapes.
• Crowe recounts the event as “emotionally violent” and “scary,” revealing that even much later, recounting the story in his audiobook, the pain resurfaced.
• He frames it as a defining challenge: moments like these test your resolve and shape your path.
• Quote:
  “It was a knot in my soul, and it was very scary. But it’s the kind of obstacle you get early in your life...you either make it over and learn from it, or you succumb to it.” (Crowe, 08:53)

4. Lessons from Lester Bangs: “You’re Not in the Band”

[09:29–13:41]

• Crowe elaborates on advice from famed rock critic Lester Bangs—not to try to be friends with bands, but to “write truths” about them.
• This becomes a throughline in Almost Famous, where Philip Seymour Hoffman’s portrayal of Lester Bangs delivers tough-love guidance.
• Crowe shares a personal anecdote of being relieved of a guitar at an Allman Brothers jam—his realization that his “instrument” was the typewriter, not the guitar:
• Quote:
  “[Lester Bangs] was saying...don’t try and be in the band because they’re nice to you...you’re there to report and write.” (Crowe, 12:15)

5. The Power of Music to Tattoo the Soul—Then and Now

[14:14–16:12]

• Listener Molly wonders if, with streaming, music still profoundly impacts young people’s lives the way it once did.
• Crowe acknowledges the nostalgia for older formats but affirms that the passion is unchanged; it isn’t about medium but about connection—especially when a song becomes part of a meaningful moment.
• Quote:
  “Culture and music is a rushing river...and I just feel the same passion, though the delivery system is different.” (Crowe, 14:38)

6. On Mothers, Inspiration, and Frances McDormand

[16:12–17:57]

• Crowe reflects on his mother’s influence and her reaction to her portrayal in Almost Famous.
• His real-life mother took her on-screen depiction in stride—with one hilarious objection: “I never went barefoot on the rug. That’s weird.”
• Frances McDormand and Crowe’s mom famously met and reached an understanding about embodying a character “that’s not you, not me...it’s someone else.”

7. L.A., Love, and the Small Things in Almost Famous

[18:15–19:49]

• Listener Mike highlights a beloved scene in Almost Famous—an intimate Harmony sung at the Hyatt House—which Crowe reveals was a nod to the partnership of Gram Parsons and Emmylou Harris.
• Crowe values these lived details, the “romance and music,” as important truths he wanted to capture.

8. Recognizing the Writer’s Calling

[19:53–22:09]

• On looking back, Crowe admits he only gradually recognized that writing, not performing, was his talent.
• Rejected from a short-lived band called The Masked Hamster, Crowe realized music journalism could be his way to stay close to what he loved.
• He describes penning early drafts of The Uncool on hundreds of yellow legal pad pages.
• Quote:
  “If I kept at it...instinctively did the 10,000 hours of doing it, I might have a certain bit of craft...That’s where I’m meant to be—not in the Masked Hamster, sadly.” (Crowe, 21:08)

9. Joni Mitchell: Upcoming Biopic and Lifetime Creative Bond

[22:18–23:45]

• Crowe gives a brief update on his long-gestating Joni Mitchell project—not a traditional “biopic” but a film about a unique person’s relentless curiosity and resilience.
• Crowe’s relationship with Mitchell spans decades, since his first major interview with her in 1979.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Feeling Uncool:
  “At the time, I didn’t feel cool...I named it The Uncool because so much of the music I loved...came from people who found their own kind of community.” (Crowe, 01:41)
• On Family and Musical Influence:
  “I owe everything to [Kathy], because...she said, you know, this music that I love, you should love too. And it’ll give you that feeling.” (Crowe, 04:08)
• On Surviving Challenges:
  “It was more seismic than I even knew as of eight months ago.” (Crowe, 09:12)
• On the Role of the Critic:
  “No, you’re there to report and write. And I would always go back...never try and be in the band.” (Crowe, 12:24)
• On Music in the Streaming Age:
  “There’s passion out there and it’s always best...if a friend actually shows you a song or a song is playing when something great is happening in your life.” (Crowe, 15:18)
• On Working with Joni Mitchell:
  “[Her story is] more of a story about a person who happens to be Joni Mitchell...not because she was born with it, but because she never gave up.” (Crowe, 22:34)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• The Origin of "Uncool": 01:26–02:22
• Influence of Family & "Happy-Sad" Feeling in Music: 03:35–05:43
• The Allman Brothers Tapes Incident: 06:10–09:29
• Lester Bangs’ Advice & “Not in the Band”: 09:29–13:41
• Is Music Still Tattooing Souls? (On Streaming): 14:14–16:12
• Crowe’s Mom & Frances McDormand: 16:12–17:57
• Scene Tribute—Gram Parsons & Emmylou Harris: 18:15–19:49
• Finding the Writer’s Path: 19:53–22:09
• Joni Mitchell Biopic Update: 22:18–23:45

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Tone and Style

Crowe’s style throughout is reflective, witty, and conversational—often self-deprecating, always passionate about music and storytelling. The conversation toggles easily between serious emotional recollections and warm, humorous asides, giving listeners both deep insight and an inviting sense of camaraderie.

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For Listeners: Takeaway

This episode is a resonant meditation on how music shapes us and how those who feel like outsiders can still find belonging through passion and persistence. The Uncool isn’t just a memoir about music, but a philosophy of creativity, resilience, and the joy of being devoted to something, even if you’re not center stage.

Transcript

[A]

Cameron Crowe, Oscar winning screenwriter, acclaimed director and celebrated music journalist, thinks he used to be Uncool. At least that's the title of his new memoir. The book follows Cameron's childhood in California and his dive into the world of rock and roll. When he was still a teenager in the 1970s, he was working for Rolling Stone, interviewing acts like the Eagles, the Allman Brothers Band, and Kris Kristofferson, all before he was legally allowed to be in some of the clubs where they are playing. This memoir is full of anecdotes about David Bowie, Joni Mitchell, Emmylou Harris. Fans of his movie Almost Famous will recognize some of the real stories that formed the inspiration behind the scenes in the movie. The Uncool A Memoir is out now and Cameron Crowe joins us to talk about it. Welcome.

[B]

It is good to be here. By the way, those opening chords of Take It Easy never get old, right?

[A]

It's irresistible. It's so great, so great, so recognizable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I should mention, if anybody has a question for Cameron Crowe about his career in music journalism or anything, we'll be taking some of your calls. 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. And I gotta come back to the name of this, the name of this book.

[C]

Let's do it.

[A]

The Uncool. I mean, you must have been one of the coolest teenagers in America at that time. You want to check out Uncool? I mean, I wasn't writing for Rolling Stone when I was 15 and getting backstage at who concerts.

[B]

It feels good when you say it, but at the time I didn't feel cool and I kind of, I don't feel it. I still feel like kind of the outsider I was in high school and a little younger than everybody else because my mom skipped me all these grades, consequential grades. But no, I just, I, I named it the Uncool because so much of the music that I loved and the people that opened doors for me as a young journalist were similarly kind of outcasts growing up. And so this was music that came from people that found their own kind of community of, of, of, of people that loved music. So that was, that was where I fell in, that made me feel among friends.

[A]

I mean, that love of music that you're talking about, that is infused in almost every line in this book that.

[B]

I love that you say that because it is about loving music and how you love music that comes from your family and your friends and your background. It's the music you choose that kind of tattoos your soul a little bit. I just wanted to write about that and you know, I've had a wonderful time as a director and I do that and I love that. But I didn't want to write a book about, you know, one of the memoirs that you read. Sometimes it's like, here are my tablets from the lofty mountain of my memory, the sepia toned brilliance of my past. It's like, no, I just wanted to write a book about the people that opened the doors for me as a young guy with a lot of questions and a love of, of music. And I really got so much help from people that looking back, I probably should have been more intimidated by.

[A]

Was it because you were so young that you weren't intimidated?

[B]

Maybe. My mom used to say, like, put on your magic boots. I thought like, wow, this really works. Until of course, the day that it did not work and then you're like, there are no magic boots. Well, you don't exist.

[A]

You mentioned your mom. This book is also this really emotional look at your family history, including the loss of your older sister Kathy. And in fact you dedicate the book to her. Can you talk about that?

[B]

Well, Kathy passed away early. She was 19, I was 10, my sister was 15. And it was something we didn't talk about in the family. She took her own life, which none of us really understood. And for many years I wanted to write something about her. And then the time arrived where I kind of realized that I owe everything to her because she was the one when I was 8 and, you know, had a crush on somebody in my school and I was already younger than everybody else. She said, you know, this music that I love, you should love too. And it'll give you that feeling. And you can even give a record to this girl that you have a crush on. And it was Beach Boys music. It was like that luscious, happy, sad, don't worry baby, God only knows type type stuff. And I just felt like, boy, this is the music I love. This is the happy, sad kind of feeling and emotion. And it defined like everything that I chased as a journalist, like to, to capture that feeling that great music can give you, that transporting thing. And it came from Kathy and also my, my sister Cindy.

[A]

Does that happy sad define a lot of your work as well? That happy sad?

[B]

I love it. You know, it's the, it's the feeling of life, you know, it's, it's the sweet and the sour. It's the, it's the thing that makes you appreciate the highs, those aching lows serve a purpose, you know, And a great song can just transport you to that place where you feel. You don't feel alone. You just have to listen to this, this thing that makes you feel a certain thing, like 20 times in a row, you know, and that's, that's the passion of being a fan, and that's kind of what the Uncool is about.

[A]

Well, we are speaking with director Cameron Crowe, talking about his new memoir, the Uncool, following his life and career as a teenage music writer in the 1970s. And we could take some calls. 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. And let's hear from Brian right now, calling in on the Upper west side. Welcome to all it.

[D]

Thanks for having me. And, Cameron, pleasure to chat with you. I'm reading your book right now as we speak, and I started reading it appropriately while in San Diego. I thought it'd be a cool vibe to start when I was on business there. But I have to ask, I have to ask you, how did you really feel? I don't want to ruin the book for anybody or your story, but when those tapes were asked, when they took the tapes from you for that big interview and the COVID story, my heart sunk into my chest when that happened. I have chills right now thinking about that moment. And you were so young. What was going through your head? And how did you really feel?

[A]

Well, let's explain what this is all about. This is tapes from your interviews with the Allman Brothers Band, right, when you're working on a piece for Rolling Stone. Is that correct?

[B]

Yeah, it was my first big tour that I got invited on, and, you know, I just felt like, boy, I, I belong here. And I asked, by the way, I love this question. I love that you started the book in San Diego, because that's where this, this began. But, yeah, Greg Allman, you know, his, his brother Dwayne had died in a terrible motorcycle accident. There had been another member of the band that died, too. And the band also got a terrible story in Rolling Stone where the writer kind of, you know, made fun of them for being Southern and stuff like that. So I kind of walked into it like, I don't know, like, I just have these questions to ask. And the band took me in and trusted me. And then the night before I left to go back home to write the story, Greg Allman, then the leader of the band, you know, he called the room, he had a call made to me at 2, 2 in the morning saying, bring all the tapes. Come to my room and bring your id. And basically what he did was in a state of kind of paranoid, I don't know, fury, really. He took all my tapes. And I gotta say, when I was. I didn't think I'd ever get them back. It was emotionally violent. And I did get the tapes back, and I wrote the story. And many years later, I got to kind of have an interaction with Greg where we kind of addressed it. But the truth is, to this question, I was scared to death. I thought I was going to get beaten up. Greg Allman wanted me to sign a contract saying the tapes now belong to him. It's now like three in the morning. And I literally could not stop shaking. So when I did the audio version of the Uncool, it all came back to me. I had to stop. I was. I realized that the pain of that, of being 16 and. And roughed up in that way was still there. And. And I've been talking about it since, and I wrote about it. So I've kind of worked my way through it. But it's a great question, because when I was 16, I thought, well, I'll just deal with this and move through it. But here I am many years later, and it was a knot in my soul, and it was very scary. But it's the kind of obstacle you get early in your life, and you either make it over and learn from it or you succumb to it, really, and out of fear, go and do something else. But I kept going, thinking that there would be other challenges as a journalist. But your question is great because it was more seismic than I even knew as of eight months ago.

[A]

Well, at one point, your detail in this memoir, you meet the rock critic Lester Bangs, someone whose writing you really admired, and you get this advice that you should not try to be friends with the bands that you cover. This is a scene that is fictionalized in Almost Famous with Philippa Famous, Philip Seymour Hoffman playing Lester Bangs. Let's hear that scene.

[C]

God, it's gonna get ugly, man. They're gonna buy you drinks, you're gonna meet girls, they're gonna try to fly you places for free, offer you drugs. And I know it sounds great. These people are not your friends, you know? These are people who want you to write sanctimonious stories about the genius of rock stars. And they will ruin rock and roll and strangle everything we love about. About it, you know, because they're trying to buy respectability for a Form that is gloriously and righteously dumb. You're smart enough to know that. And the day it ceases to be dumb is the day it ceases to be real.

[A]

Boy, tell us. Yeah, tell us about that moment and about Lester Banks and that advice and were you able to follow it?

[B]

Yeah, I know what he meant. The big thing that I remember from that day, and it was the first scene. That was the first scene we filmed in Almost Famous. And it was pretty much word for word shot in the same restaurant as this happened near my apartment, where we live. So that was pretty trippy. But what he was saying more than anything else, I think, was he was using the word us. And I was 15, talking to my hero, you know, who's, like, larger than life. And he's. I've only written a few things, and he's already welcoming me into the club of writers. I couldn't believe it, you know. And what he was saying is, yeah, write about music. It's dying, it's dead. It's almost over. But, you know, hey, you're here. And, you know, don't try and be in the band. You know, you're not there to be in the band. You're there to write about it. And I think that's. And write truths about it. I think that's what he was saying. Because Lester had friends that were in bands for sure. But. But really, I think what he was saying, besides it welcome. Welcoming me into a place where he could say us, which is amazing. I totally didn't deserve. What he was saying was, you know, don't think you're in the band because they're nice to you. And I've seen journalists show up and, like, dress like the people they're interviewing and think that they're there to be kind of in the touring party that continues forever. No, you're there to report and write. And I would always go back to my room and transcribe and never try and be in the band. Well, once I tried to play guitar in an Allman Brothers kind of jam session that was after one of their concerts. And I could. You know, the guitar was sitting there. They were kind of doing a hoot Nanny. And I was like, I'm gonna play this guitar. I know two chords. And I start. I started strumming. And I felt their head roadie was a guy named Red Dog who'd befriended me. And I'm starting to strum, and I'm looking at Greg Allman, who's looking at me kind of like, that's Interesting what you're trying to do. It's messing up my song, but, you know, it's kind of interesting. I felt the guitar lifting out of my hands almost like a. A holy mission to, like, remove it from me, but in the most delicate way and give it to somebody who could actually play. And it was at that moment I realized, you know, your instrument is the. Is the. The keyboard and not the musical keyboard. It's a. It's a typewriter. You don't belong in the band. And that's what Lester's saying, by the way, Philip Seymour Hoffman brought Lester to life in a way that I could have only dreamed about. And I. I don't know much about how Lester, who. Who died young. I as well. I don't know how much Lester would have liked, you know, the movie Almost Famous or whatever. He was a. A prickly but fun guy. I know one thing, he would have loved Philip Seymour Hoffman. Those two would have gone off and. And maybe we never would have gotten the performance from Philip Seymour Hoffman because they would have had too much fun on their own. Those two belong together. So I'm really. I always enjoy hearing that scene.

[A]

Well, our guest is writer, director, music journalist, and one time member of the Allman Brothers Band. Cameron Crowe here today.

[B]

45 seconds.

[A]

45 seconds.

[B]

I would put it at 45 seconds.

[A]

Your new memoir is the uncool following your life and career as a teenage music writer in the 1970s. If you have a question, give us a call. 212-433-9692. And let's take another call right now. Molly calling in from the West Village. Welcome to all of it.

[E]

Hi. Thank you so much, Cameron, for taking my question. I can't wait to read the book you spoke earlier about the way that music, you know, is tattooed on our souls so early by family, by friends and all these experiences. And I hope that that's still the case. But I worry that with the rise of streaming and how most of us consume music now, that that's becoming less and less the case. And I'm curious on that.

[B]

So it's once again, really good question, Molly. It's like, it's too easy in a way to say, like, oh, I remember time before there was streaming, or like, oh, vinyl is. You got to listen to it on vinyl. And it's all. That's true. But also true is like, it. Culture and music is a. Is a rushing river, you know, and it's just blasting, you know, away, you know, and we're just on the riverbank watching it, watching it flow. And I just feel the same passion, though the, the delivery system is different. I feel the same passion about music that I did then and I felt it really. Recently. We did a little book tour for, for the Uncool and I, I met a lot of music fans. I got out of my writing room and got to actually, you know, hang with people that loved music like me. And people were talking about Geese, this band, the way I used to talk about the Allman Brothers Band, you know, so there's passion out there and it's always best, I found if a friend actually shows you a song or a song is playing when something great is happening in your life and you realize, you know, this is, this is a song that's always going to remind me of this moment. And suddenly music is fresh and new and as powerful as it ever was. So I'm just happy it exists in any form and it's there. If you look for it both algorithm wise or just like friends passing along something that moved them, it's the fan experience. I love it.

[A]

I love hearing that. And really at the center of not just this memoir, but the movie Almost Famous really is your mother, Alice, who provided so much wisdom, scolding, education, guidance. And if you have seen Almost Famous, the fictionalized version of your mother is very familiar to fans. What did she think about her portrayal in film? She's played by Frances McDormand in the movie.

[B]

She loved it. She loved it. And she just said like, my one quibble is that I never went barefoot in the house. I don't want people to think that I went barefoot on the rug. That's weird. That's. I would never do that. Other than that, I think she watched in wonder at how Frances brought that character to life. There was a moment where I told my mom on the set, you know, she was, we were shooting in our hometown. So my, I knew my mom was going to show up. And so she showed up and I said, please don't bother Frances McDormand. You know, she's an Oscar winning actress and please don't talk to her. Let her do her thing. And my mom was like, okay. I turn around, you know, two minutes later and she's got Frances McDormand off in a corner and they're talking, you know, in this fevered kind of looking conversation. And later I asked Francis what it was and Francis said, I love your mom. But I had to tell her, what I'm going to do is not you, and it's not me. It's going to be someone else. So I hope you enjoy it. And so Frances McDormand was able to handle my mom, like few ever were able to do. She. She went. She went toe to toe with my mom and, like, they went to the other corners of the ring and I think they were satisfied with each other.

[A]

That's fantastic. If you'd like to join this conversation, we're going to take another call right now. 212-433-9692. We're speaking to director, music journalist Cameron Crow here on wnyc. And let's hear from Mike in Sparta, New Jersey. Welcome.

[F]

Hey, Cameron, how you doing?

[B]

Hey, Mike, how you doing?

[F]

Great, thanks. I just wanted. I just finished the book, finished the audiobook. It's fantastic.

[D]

I absolutely loved it.

[F]

Almost Famous, one of my favorite movies. And there's something you mentioned in the book that was one of my favorite scenes in the film, which is Petrifuget. You know, you guys are at the Hyatt house, his first time there with Penny Lane. You're walking through the hallways and he stops and looks into a doorway and. And it's Pete Roach playing that guitar and singing, you know, harmony with that other woman. And he, you know, stands there for 10 seconds and then gets pulled away.

[D]

And I thought it was just. It just captured such a great part.

[F]

Of L. A at that time, I would imagine. But also just the song itself was a beautiful little snippet. So I just want to say my appreciation for that. It was such a beautiful little snippet of Mike.

[B]

I just saw Pete and his wife Elaine, and those are the two people that are in that scene. And thanks for mentioning that. It's one of my favorite parts of the movie. And it's a mini tribute to Graham Parsons and Emmylou Harris and the song, who I got to see up close as a young journalist when they were just starting to play together. And I wanted to attribute to that feeling because there was such an amazing kind of spark, the sparks that those two threw off. And I. So I wanted for like 10 seconds of William to see something like that. Romance and music and what. Here's what love looks like. Love and music and then he gets yanked away. But this. I love that song. It's. It's called Small Town Blues and I just love it.

[A]

Pete.

[B]

Pete and Elaine wrote a great song there. I love that you mentioned that scene.

[A]

And let's take another call. Philip in the East Village. Welcome.

[F]

Hey. Hey. Thanks. Hey, Cameron.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

That thing you were talking about earlier, feeling really connected to music from early on in your life, but not necessarily having the musical talent or ability, like getting handed the guitar by Greg Allman and trying your best. I feel like I really relate to that. But, yeah, at what point was it kind of like a. Almost semi disappointment to you that, you know, you weren't necessarily musically inclined or at what point did you kind of realize that you're a good writer and music journalism is still a way for you to like, keep that connection alive?

[B]

I'm only now realizing kind of how much I was supposed to be a writer. I. I was just ready for any road in. I even tried to be in a band. It was called Masked Hamster. It was three guys.

[A]

Masked Hamster.

[B]

The Masked Hamster. Fantastic. I know it's a much better name than a band, but, you know, that happens sometimes. And they. They threw me. We played I Can't Explain the who song and they. They told me the band was breaking up at the end of our first day together. And then a couple days later, walking through the neighborhood, I heard the Masked Hamster playing I Can't Explain without me. So that was. That was my first lesson in interband politics. And also I was starting to really love Lester Banks and Dave Marsh and some of the great, you know, rock critics Grill, Marcus and Ben Fong Torres. You know, they were. They were. They were as epic as some of my rock heroes. So I realized that, that if. If I kept at it, you know, and. And did instinctively did the 10, 000 hours of doing it, that I. I might have a certain bit of craft. And so I think it. It was really fun to go back and write the uncool because that was kind of going back to the analog beginnings of just learning to write. I would write on yellow legal tablet pages and just go forever. And I did that on this book and had to cut it down from 400 to 600 pages of yellow legal tablets. That's where I'm meant to be, you know, not in the Masked Hamster, sadly.

[A]

Well, it sounds like we heard about you getting kicked out of two bands today, so.

[B]

It's all they do. It's all they do is they, they. I sample my wares and it's like they move on.

[A]

Well, in the few moments that we have left in just the last few seconds here, you write a bit about your relationship with Joni Mitchell throughout the years. You're currently working on a biopic about her, is that right? Can you give us any updates?

[B]

Well, biopic I am and biopic we're going to do it. This, this next year biopic kind of has the, the feeling of genre, you know, like there's, there's a kind of story that you tell where, you know, it just, it feels like genre. This is going to be different. It's more of a story about a person who happens to be Joni Mitchell, who happens to become, you know, the top of her field. Not because she was born with it, but because she just never gave up. She never stopped trying to be better. And that curiosity and that kind of light hearted feeling of like, well, I'll just dust myself up off and keep on going is like one of my favorite feelings about feeling about a character. And so her life kind of lines up with what I love to write about. And, and it did. As a young journalist, she picked me to do one of her first big interviews when I was, I don't know, it was 1979 and I've really been interviewing her ever since. And that morphed. I'm just so happy that it happened. But it morphed into doing this movie. We've been working on it for about four years and the movie is is her life from her point of view. And I'm very honored to be the the the Handmaiden.

[A]

Well, thank you so much for the update and thank you so much for talking with us today. Cameron Crowe's new book, the Uncool A Memoir is out right now. Thank you so much for joining us on all of it, David.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[G]

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