Carrie Coon (3:11)

Everybody auditions for Mike White.

Alison Stewart (3:12)

Really?

Carrie Coon (3:13)

Yes. He does not cast anyone without audition tapes.

Interviewer (3:18)

So did you do for Lori specifically or was it in general?

Carrie Coon (3:21)

I think my sides were Lori heavy. I do think the sides were dummy sides, we call them, but I. I think they were, you know, geared toward one character or another. And I think casting recognized that I was very much a Lori. And I know some actresses were then called back to read science for other parts, but that did not occur with me. I was just. I was a Laurie. From the jump.

Interviewer (3:42)

When you first realized you were a Laurie, what interested you about Laurie?

Carrie Coon (3:47)

Well, I knew that whatever Laurie went through and I didn't see the scripts right away, of course, that it would be psychologically interesting acting challenge because it's Mike White. So I was primarily interested in Mike White. Less interested. I mean, Laurie, I knew, you know, Laurie, whatever. I would have played anything. I would have played. I would have played anything to work with Mike White. That was my primary interest in doing the show.

Interviewer (4:10)

What's so great about Mike White?

Carrie Coon (4:12)

He's just been doing extraordinary work for a long time, and he's been doing risky, transgressive, morally complicated work for a long time. And that's the work that interests me the most. I think being a human being is messy business. I think we're seeing that play out.

Interviewer (4:28)

Yes, we are. In the penultimate episode, Kate and Jacqueline, the. They tell Lori that she is chronically disappointed. Do you think that's true about Lori?

Carrie Coon (4:41)

I think she has a negative bias. Yes. I see that in. I contend that way in my own life. How are you? Oh, well, you know, it's raining and the kids got up at 5. You know, I will have a tendency to list some of those things that happen before I get to. But I'm fine. I see it in my siblings. Maybe it's a Midwestern thing. I don't know. It's like to, like, in order to entrench ourselves in our stomach, we first have to list our obstacles.

Listener (5:08)

Oh, maybe.

Carrie Coon (5:10)

Maybe she's just. Yeah, I think she does probably have that in her. And I think, you know, the fact that her. Her friends are speaking truth to that is what leads her on her escapade with Alexei, whatever she's proving to herself or to them, which really ends up just reinforcing the idea that maybe she's not made great decisions. You know, she's really reflecting on the decisions she's made in her life.

Interviewer (5:31)

The story goes that Mike White saw a group of women on vacation, and they all sort of looked interchangeable with each other. And then one left the group, and the other two talked, and then another left the group and the other two talked. When you think about these women going on vacation together in the White Lotus.

Alison Stewart (5:49)

What is it that they have in common, that they truly have in common?

Interviewer (5:53)

And then what separates them?

Carrie Coon (5:55)

I think the thing they have in common the most is their history. They have a shared history. They knew each other when. But other than that, I think their lives have really diverged. And yet I experienced this. This idea that how strong of a tether is history when your life starts to diverge from your friends? I mean, my life is wildly different than my life when I was growing up in Ohio and arguably more different than probably just about anyone I went to high school with. So I'm a bit of a Jacqueline in my hometown. Right. When I go back to my hometown, I'm Jacqueline. So I don't know. I recognize how challenging it can be to maintain those old friendships, and yet making new ones isn't very easy either. But I do recognize, in Mike White's interest, a lot of conformity. You will see women geographically who look the same. You go to a yoga class in Tribeca. Everyone is dressed exactly the same. Everyone has the same sleek ponytail and a matching set and fancy shoes. And it's just, you know, there's a lot of conformity. So I think there's also a commentary on sort of how much we're striving to be the same, when, in fact, there are many things that distinguish us.

Alison Stewart (7:03)

We got a great question. This says, how much did you know about the other characters, storylines, and subplots during the production of the White Lotus?

Carrie Coon (7:12)

I read all of the scripts before I went to Thailand. I was given them almost immediately, but then I wanted to forget them because I wanted to consume the show also as a viewer and a fan. And so when we were in Thailand, because they were so worried about the material getting out, we were only allowed to see our scenes, and we had to give our scripts back every time we moved.

Interviewer (7:30)

Oh, interesting.

Carrie Coon (7:30)

I intentionally kept a very loose grip on the other characters and tried to forget what happened. And, in fact, I was successful. I was I was as surprised last night as you were, but I have two kids, so I don't remember anything.

Interviewer (7:43)

Let's talk to Mark from Ewing, New Jersey. Hi, Mark. Thanks so much for making the time to call. All of it. You're on the air.

WNYC Studios (7:50)

Hey, thanks for taking my call. Carrie, I just wanted to say I was really moved by your performance in the scene at the table, which was a little bit of a resolution for the. For the friendship and her finding sort of her own piece. It was very emotional, and I was really touched by it. And thank you for all your hard work. And I just wanted. I. I also want to just make a quick comment that I felt the Ratliff family the resolution. I wanted see a little bit more of, you know, the father facing the music or, you know, what had taken place. He hit it with, you know, hiding the phones. And I thought it was a beautiful ending on the boat, but I wanted to see him face the music from the family. And the. Him rescuing the son was pretty crazy.

Interviewer (8:45)

Thanks for the call, Mark.

Carrie Coon (8:46)

I. I know what you mean. I just think that maybe. Maybe Parker Posey's character wouldn't have stopped talking or would have murdered Jason. Maybe they were done with murder. They would have tossed him over the side. But I understand. I mean, we were. I think it says a lot about Mike's writing that we were eager to see that come up and send that conversation and just how all of those characters would have located themselves inside that particular tragedy for that family. But, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, leave them hungry for more. That's maybe one of the old adages about entertainment.

Interviewer (9:16)

My guest is Carrie Coon. We are talking about the finale of the White Lotus. It happened last night. Our texts are so interesting. I'm gonna read a couple to. I thought this storyline perfectly captured the complexity and beauty of female friendship's best storyline of the season. I thought the emotional turn Laurie's speech took was the biggest surprise of the season. More, even the way the season ended, it was the most moving part of the whole season to me. Another text said, I love the girlfriend's resolution. Women friendships, especially lifelong ones, can be complex. And it felt true and honest. Amazing job. Carrie Coon, you're my favorite. That's so interesting that it is really resonating with our listeners.

Listener (9:57)

It is.

Carrie Coon (9:58)

You know, it's interesting. When the three of us read the script, Leslie and Michelle and I, we felt that our story was smaller, not as Greek, not as transgressive. It's not the flashy stuff, right, though. We had some fun things to do and a lot of it was also cut. So we recognized we had a responsibility to provide, I think, a way in for the audience because our storyline was the most relatable in a way. And I recognized that in some ways we were the heart of the piece. Our ending, it seems like it's headed for cynicism and cattiness, but in fact, it ends up being the most wholesome and forgiving of all the storylines in a way. And I so appreciated that about what Mike was doing. He's very smart. He always gives the audience a cipher. You know, I think we relate to Belinda. We root for Belinda. Even though you could argue her ending is kind of cynical, though, who would be grudging her that opportunity? But. But I think the women ended up being just a really recognizable dynamic for people. And that's. It's smart when you're also going to introduce, you know, incest and Greek tragedy.

Interviewer (11:01)

Let's. Let's play a little bit of that speech last night that we've all been talking about. This is a speech Laurie gives at dinner. And I'll play about a minute long clip. This is from the White Lotus.

Listener (11:11)

I have no belief system and I. Well, I mean, I've had a lot of them, but I mean, work was my religion for forever, but I definitely lost my belief there. And then. And then I tried love, and that was just a painful religion, just made everything worse. And then, even for me, just like being a mother, that didn't save me either. But I had this epiphany today. I don't need religion or God to give my life meaning because time gives it meaning.

Carrie Coon (11:45)

We.

Listener (11:46)

We started this life together. I mean, we're. We're going through it apart, but we're still together. And I. I look at you guys and it feels meaningful and. And I can't explain it, but even when we're just sitting around the pool talking about whatever and name sh. T, it still feels very. I'm glad you have a beautiful face and I'm glad that you have a beautiful life. And I'm just happy to be at the table.

Interviewer (12:25)

I love that line. Time gives it meaning.

Alison Stewart (12:29)

I wrote it down as I was watching the show.

Carrie Coon (12:31)

Oh, yeah, I. I think. I mean, but I. My kids are, you know, 7 and 4 right now, and I. I look back and I can't believe how quickly that time is passing. My grandmother used to say, you blink and you're 70 and there is something about having people in your life who, when they look at You. They see all of you. I imagine when I look at my son when he's 30, I'll see the baby in there somewhere, you know, which feels really moving and strange to me to imagine. I imagine it's what my parents experienced. But, you know, I agree. I think we're living in an increasingly secular country, and we're looking for the places where we find meaning. And there's something about the accumulation of that experience that is meaningful. It's probably one of the reasons why I don't have plastic surgery, because I agree, you know, it's like this. Everything that I've been through is written on my face. And you earned all that.

Interviewer (13:26)

I earned all that.

Carrie Coon (13:27)

That's right. That is right. And I think there's something about valuing that and honoring it and caring, carrying it forward into whatever comes next. And so I love that that was Mike's conclusion for those women and that you're able. That she was able to take the criticism her friends gave her and she gave it back, you know, and then also take responsibility for her part and metabolize that and have a. And have a shift. I mean, it's always more interesting to play a character that changes. Right? That's, I think, good art. People change. And so I was grateful to have that opportunity for Laurie to have that opportunity to maybe make a paradigm shift and see maybe how her values change going forward from this moment.

Alison Stewart (14:03)

Talk to another listener. This is Max calling in from Brooklyn.

Interviewer (14:07)

Hey, Max, thanks for calling all of it.

Alison Stewart (14:09)

You're on the air.

Max (14:11)

Hey, thanks so much. And thank you so much. Carrie Coon. I'm a big fan. Also love doing the leftovers. I wanted to talk about that. Deeper meaning. Exactly. And maybe see what you think about kind of the way that the show depicted honesty and the way that it impacted how characters played out. Just, you know, you and your character and her friends kind of had a happy ending. And I think that your honesty with the whole Valentine situation, it was rough in the middle, but it kind of led to being able to have that happier ending, whereas the rat lips went a different way because of their dishonesty. And, you know, Guy Talk had his own honesty situation, as did Belinda, but theirs took them into happy endings, but maybe not spiritually fulfilling. So kind of the role that secrets and honesty played in the characters outcomes, was there any kind of deeper meaning that you saw in the kind of different paths people took around the truth?

Carrie Coon (15:05)

What a lovely question. I mean, that's. Yes, I do think that truth is valuable, and we are living In a time when the truth is not so clear, when the truth is elusive, when we had. When the Internet, the rise in. The rise of the Internet, everybody thought that the truth would rise to the top, but it sinks to the bottom, and we are more lost than we have ever been. And so in some ways, maybe our own personal truth is the thing we can be most certain about, but it's also most clouded by the modern world and very difficult to find that still small voice. I know certainly, speaking as a woman, that's very hard. I, you know, I was taught to say yes, and it was very hard. And metabolize other people's feelings, most importantly, and take into consideration what other people were feeling. And so I do think. And I. I've said this before, but if the women had walked into the villa and just said, listen, this is what's going on in my life. This is what's really happening, they would have had such a different vacation. But instead, they felt this pressure to keep up, this posturing, this idea of performing self. And, you know, it's very intentional that it's set in a Buddhist country. The question is always, you know, if I can. If I. If I let go of this identity, what is left? And I think in Buddhism, the argument is made that there is no there there, that it's just a series of impulses and neurons firing it, but there's no actual cohesive person. It's like standing in a river. You are standing in the river. It's the same river, but the water is rushing past you. It's not the same water. And that's what it means to be a human. And the question I think Mike is asking and what these ladies really embody is if we let go of our storytelling, the stories that we tell over and over about who we are, can we be less reactive? And if we let go of that storytelling, what is the freedom that's on the other side from our history or from our trauma or from our past? And I think that freedom is something Laurie maybe gets a little taste of.

Alison Stewart (16:57)

Got an interesting text that says, Ms. Koons is a treasure. I have to ask her, though, to go from that, to make the U turn from that speech to running from bullets. Made me wonder how she processed that with her friends afterwards. So there's two parts. It's you as the actor, your ability to turn on a dime, and then also how she processed that with her friends after giving that speech.

Carrie Coon (17:20)

Oh, well, you know, what was interesting is that we had, you know, we shoot out of order I shot, for example, crying in my room from episode one. And also Jacqueline coming into my room after my event with Alexi on the same day, my first day of Holy cow. Before I any of it. So we don't have the benefit of shooting those things in order. I can't honestly remember if I did the speech before the running or not, but I think that was the order of things with maybe a week in between. So what was fascinating about doing that speech in this job is that we were actually living together for six months and our time together was coming to a close and I had not known Michelle and Leslie, so I had lived this six month friendship with these women with whom I had lived and not only just worked, but lived. And so there was a lot of truth in the speech. Right. Just being happy to be at the table is very real in a time when a lot of actors aren't working, when we still haven't recovered from COVID and the strike. And to be able to say honestly to those women that I am glad for the things they have that we all have. And then also to be. It was satisfying to get to do that with those women who I normally wouldn't be in a show with. We'd all be in our own show. We wouldn't be acting together. So that's meaningful. But then also I'm an American and I'm playing a New Yorker and if you hear gunshots, you are getting out of there. You are getting out of there. And I just, I just felt like, what would a person do? And that person would get out of there. I know every exit in any building I'm in in this country. Sadly, like we are all primed for that. And we will all know someone who has been in this kind of situation. I do. You know, I have a family member who was. Who got shot in the head in Drive By Shooting. Like we will all know somebody. And it was important for me to embody getting the heck out of there when things are going down, because that is the American way.

Interviewer (19:11)

You said something interesting in your answer, that you three women would have all been in different shows, that you wouldn't been cast together in a show along.

Carrie Coon (19:20)

With Natasha and Parker. Right. We're all women of the same age.

Interviewer (19:24)

That brings me to my point. That's unusual.

Carrie Coon (19:26)

It is unusual, yes. I have that in the Gilded Age a little bit, but of course it's a period piece and I don't see those other women as often as I'd like. But it's just so rare to have that opportunity. And it's rare we would be pitted against each other or we wouldn't see each other because we're operating in different worlds. And so the fact that I had the benefit of working with other women who are at similar stages in their careers and their lives with similar experience with the kind of work ethic that I share, it was just a very moving and satisfying way to work because, you know, that monologue doesn't happen without speaking into the listening of those other women. And so I give them all the credit as my scene partners throughout the season for, you know, every. We culminated together in that moment, you know, and it's just. It's just a rare pleasure we don't get. And I hope I see more of it because I know women are economic drivers and we are consumers of art, and we deserve to have our stories told.

Interviewer (20:21)

Well, after 40, my guest is Carrie Coon.

Alison Stewart (20:25)

We are talking about the season finale of the White Lotus.

Interviewer (20:29)

How did you find Laurie's voice?

Carrie Coon (20:32)

She's so much closer to me in some ways than Bertha. You know, when my family saw the episode five, the club scene, they said, well, it's nothing we haven't seen you do at a wedding. So there are many ways in which, you know, her. Her goofiness and her sense of humor are closer to me than almost any character I've ever played. I would say between that and Lake George, a film I did with Shea Wiggum this year, I mean, I think that these characters are more recognizable to my friends. Maybe not the drunkenness and not all the bad decisions. I'm a pretty reasonable gal. But. But, yeah, she was kind of similar to me. I had to make sure I wasn't honking out too many Midwestern ass. But I caught a few. I wasn't as vigilant.

Alison Stewart (21:11)

You recently spoke that certain scenes had been deleted from the show which were.

Interviewer (21:16)

The saddest to see go.

Carrie Coon (21:17)

Oh, well, you know, there's a beautiful dream sequence having to do with Leslie's character with Kate and Leslie. Leslie gives such a beautiful and nu and funny performance this season. It was a shame that we lost that along with the monologue she gives about pickleball. Very relevant and more, you know, just more sort of more insight into what's going on with her. And it was a beautiful dream sequence we shot with those old tungsten lights that are 800 degrees. And it was so hot. It was horrible, but. But also gorgeous. And there was also. We. We got to, you know, we talk about Jacqueline being the face doing that puppet where I'm the arms. And we did that twice. We did that in the dream sequence and we did it at the end in the room. Kate comes out of the bathroom and Jacqueline and I are set up doing the puppet. And so we were sad to see that go because that was. We shot that at three in the morning one night. Just absolutely unhinged night. But, you know, you see those little details go and it breaks your heart a little bit. But, you know, you have to cut for story. We had a lot of characters to balance.

Alison Stewart (22:13)

So do they help you as an actor to have done them?

Carrie Coon (22:17)

Yes, I think so. I think one, you know, if we shot in order, it would help more. But one scene certainly informs the next. And anytime you're, I don't know, put into extreme circumstances or doing something physical or fun, it's galvanizing, I think, especially when you're forming new relationships and you're building intimacy. But it's all, you know, my life is lived in the making of the show. My life isn't lived in the viewing of the show. Right. I'm back. I was at the grocery store this morning. You know, the glamour of Thailand, the challenge of Thailand is well behind me. It's, you know, it was a year ago that I started that challenge. And so in some ways, I don't know, just you're all processing it when it's already my past, you know.

Alison Stewart (22:57)

This is an interesting text. It says, I'm too nervous to call, but I'm still thinking about Carrie's monologue from last night. She nailed it and brought the show home. I'm wondering how many takes that took. How early or late in the season that they shot it.

Carrie Coon (23:10)

It was pretty late. We were at the Rosewood, which is one of our final destinations. It was like shooting in a greenhouse. It was so extreme. There was a pile of tissues on the floor by me because we were just pouring sweat. And we were so hard not to move because it was so hot that night. I came in with a really emotional take, my first take, and and Mike had something really specific he was after. And I think we ended up doing it, I don't know, maybe five or six times, which is a lot for TV and a lot for that heat. We're trying to get it before lunch. But, you know, I, I I love Mike because he, even if you're doing something that works and is effective if he has something in mind that he needs, he will not let it go. And he stayed on me until he got the tone that he wanted. And also, there were just technical things. You know, I was looking around and, you know, kind of more inward, I think. And, you know, he reminded me that because of the camera angles, I had to deliver one line to Leslie and one line to Michelle just because we only had three cameras to cover it. And the DP ended up putting a camera in the middle to give me a little bit more freedom in my process. But I think that's why I noticed that it was maybe one of the later takes because I could tell that I was doing one line to each woman, which I maybe wasn't doing in the first early take. But I'm not cursed with that kind of memory. Some actors are like, why didn't you use take three? That was my bad. I don't have that problem. Just like, oh, thanks for making me look good. Editor.

Alison Stewart (24:27)

What was really a tough time for you on the shoot? It was a long shoot. People have talked about it. It could be either a scene that was hard, it could be the heat, it could be what. What was the hardest thing about working on this particular show?

Carrie Coon (24:41)

Well, for me, you may notice that when other actors post some of their behind the scenes fun shots, I'm not there because anytime I had a break in shooting, I had to fly home to New York. So I was commuting home on the longest flight in the world to see my family because it was too hot for them to be there because of climate change. So the temperatures in that region were the hottest they've ever been in the history of keeping track. Until this year, they're actually much hotter. So schools were shut down. I was not outside between 9 and 4 because the heat and the UV index were so high. And so I could not bring my very pale children to Thailand, especially not flying a 3 year old 18 hours. So the hardest thing for me was that when I got home and I landed in New York, I was back into my role as a mom. There was no jet lag, there was no nap. There was just like school drop off, grocery store, swimming lessons. And then when that week or 10 days was over, I got on a plane, I flew back to Thailand. And usually I was on set, you know, that day or, you know, 24 hours later. So I didn't have a lot of time to adjust. And so work, life balance was pretty challenging.

Interviewer (25:41)

That's really interesting.

Carrie Coon (25:43)

It was hard. Yeah, it was really hard. And I, and I have to give all the credit to my husband for saying, we're gonna, we're gonna figure this out and make this work. But, you know, it was not easy on my kids, and it was not easy on my husband, and it was not easy on me. And also I missed out on a lot of the community building. That happens when you're, when you're living together like that on a set. And so there's a little bit of a loss on that side as well.

Interviewer (26:03)

Is that the life of, of actors that you have to make those kind of choices?

Carrie Coon (26:07)

Yeah, there's a lot of sacrifice. And as a mom, you know, it's hard in any job. You know, I know women who are commuting to New York City five days a week. They see their kids in the morning, they see their kids maybe at bedtime. That is harder than what I'm doing, arguably, because maybe I disappeared for a few months. But I'm also around for a lot of the stuff some moms aren't around for. So I can't say that it's harder, but when I'm in production, you know, when I came back and I was on Gilded Age set, 48 hours later, we were working 16 hour days. So I leave at 3 in the morning and I get home after bedtime. So it's hard. The hours are long. And, you know, it's not just, it's not. It's an endurance test. So much of it, it's a great pleasure to do.

Alison Stewart (26:47)

I say you're in demand, which is.

Interviewer (26:49)

Hard, which is hard opportunities, right?

Carrie Coon (26:51)

That's true. And the great, you know, the privilege of being where I am in my career now is the power of no. I get to say no to more things because it's likely that some other job will come. When you're a young actor, you say yes to everything and you don't know when the next opportunity will come. And you have to capitalize on every mom. And I've now gotten to a place where I get to be patient. And when I say to my kids I'm going to stay home for a while, I can actually honor that and keep my word with them, which is something you have to do to recover from the moments when you're, you know, commuting to Thailand.

Interviewer (27:20)

Tell Tracy that we really. I thought he was great in Eric LaRue.

Listener (27:24)

Thank you.

Carrie Coon (27:25)

Yes. I haven't seen it yet. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm so proud of Mike Shannon. It's, you know, what a great debut.

Interviewer (27:31)

And will we see the Gilded Age in 2025?

Carrie Coon (27:34)

Indeed. Indeed you will. I can't say specifically when, but yes, it's coming.

Interviewer (27:39)

My guess.

Carrie Coon (27:39)

And if you all watch it, maybe we'll get a Season four.

Alison Stewart (27:42)

All right. Like that promo.

Interviewer (27:44)

My guest has been Carrie Coons. We're discussing the season finale of the White Lotus. It is always a joy to talk to you, Carrie.

Carrie Coon (27:51)

Thanks for having me. I'll see you again, I hope.

Progressive Insurance (27:54)

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