← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Cartoonist Harry Bliss On Grieving His Dog Through Drawing
00:19:06
In his new graphic memoir, You Can Never Die, cartoonist Harry Bliss commemorates his deceased dog, Penny, and explores what it means to grieve a pet.
Loading summary
Transcript84 lines
- [00:00]
Progressive Insurance
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [00:29]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart, illustrator, author and New York magazine cartoonist Harry Bliss has a new book out. Its cover features a drawing of his dog Penny, and it's titled you Can Never A Graphic Memoir. Well, Penny has died and Penny was one of the most important relationship in Harry's life. Grieving her has helped him make sense of other parts of his life. Some of it difficult, like his abusive childhood and his relationship with his parents. And some of it uplifting like, like his connection to nature and animals and his need to create art. You Can Never Die was published yesterday and joining me now to talk about it is Harry Bliss. Harry, welcome back to all of it.
- [01:08]
Harry Bliss
Thanks, Alison. Nice to be here.
- [01:10]
Alison Stewart
So you start the book not with an introduction, but with an intention. You say that introductions seem cold to you. Why did you start with an intention?
- [01:19]
Harry Bliss
The idea was to create intimacy in the book. That was my objective with the whole project. Yeah, it's like a curated, intimate view of my brain during three years of loss, but interspersed with some humor, I hope.
- [01:37]
Alison Stewart
Why did it feel like the right.
- [01:38]
Harry Bliss
Time to write was cathartic for me to write to get through the process of grieving? You know, if pet owners in the world who lost a dog can, you know, appreciate how tough that can be. I had never experienced grief like that before in my life. So when Penny died, it was, I wailed, you know, it was very difficult. So it was writing about it was a way to cathart and transcend it a little bit.
- [02:11]
Alison Stewart
How would you describe your creative relationship with Penny?
- [02:15]
Harry Bliss
Well, I wouldn't have a career if it weren't for Penny. She has inspired countless cartoons, a couple covers for the New Yorker and God, she was in the first book I did with Steve Martin. You know, he wrote he knew Penny, so and we both kind of grieved there. But yeah, she was an intimate part of my, my wife and I, our lives for 17 years. You know, that's a long time.
- [02:43]
Alison Stewart
How did Penny help you relate to other people in your life?
- [02:50]
Harry Bliss
Relating to other people? You know, there's a patience that you have with animals, with your pet, and a kindness that I certainly didn't have growing up. And that's in the Memoir. It was fairly abusive. And I would. I would say most of my childhood was fear based. But the relationship with Penny opened up a window to empathy, kindness, love, patience. Some pretty good stuff.
- [03:18]
Alison Stewart
They're also, it's really quite simple dogs. They walk up to you. Hey, you want to hang out?
- [03:22]
Harry Bliss
It's true.
- [03:23]
Alison Stewart
You should. Great. If you don't want to. Okay, next.
- [03:25]
Harry Bliss
It's true.
- [03:26]
Alison Stewart
That's the thing that I learned from my dog. Passed away pretty young at like 5 years old. And I was just like. I was so, like, just down for months.
- [03:35]
Harry Bliss
Yeah.
- [03:35]
Alison Stewart
Just like, aw. I know he wasn't here, and I learned so much from him. Go, Rocco. But that was one of the things I learned when I was walking him was like, he just goes up to people and says, hi, how you doing? You want any friends? No. Okay.
- [03:49]
Harry Bliss
Right? Yeah. You think about how many people Rocco's. You know how they smiled at your dog on those walks and they thought, oh, that's cute. You know, we take that stuff for granted. Well, some of us do, but that's another essay I write in the book, is just how many people. We would take our dog Penny up to the University of Vermont. We have a house there, and we'd walk on the campus and the students would just melt, man, when they walk around the campus and they would see Penny. So, you know, that's significant. You know, a being that brings that kind of joy. It's pretty cool.
- [04:23]
Alison Stewart
Harry Bliss is a cartoonist, a New York magazine cover artist and illustrator of children's book. His new book is titled you'd Can Never Die A Graphic Memoir. It's about his life, his art, and his late dog, Penny. As a cartoonist, you need to be very careful with language because you only have a certain number of words you can use. How did you approach language in this memoir?
- [04:43]
Harry Bliss
Well, I went for it, really. I didn't hold back on it. And so the language is pretty frank. And I talk about some things that, you know, that were not necessarily tough for me to talk about, but difficult for me to release into the world. And some of those things are the death of my parents, drug use, my fondness for alcohol.
- [05:08]
Alison Stewart
Yeah, there's a line. I was a cocaine enthusiast. I illustrated three of my best children's book while snorting the stuff.
- [05:14]
Harry Bliss
Yes.
- [05:14]
Alison Stewart
Why did you want to be so frank?
- [05:19]
Harry Bliss
Well, part of it, when you're writing a. When you write, it's really an autobiography. I mean, it's labeled a memoir, but in some ways, in fact, Sy Hersh is the one that called it an Autobiography, because he had read it and he said that this. This is more of an autobiography. But I want it to be frank because that's the only way you're going to get intimacy with people. You know, people are only going to be able to relate to you and have a certain connection to you. If you lay it all out.
- [05:43]
Alison Stewart
It's not memories. They're facts about your life.
- [05:46]
Harry Bliss
Yes.
- [05:47]
Alison Stewart
As opposed to a memoir, how you remembered, how you experienced it, versus, like, no, this happened.
- [05:52]
Harry Bliss
Yeah, but it's. You know what, Alison? It's like time is such a weird concept. Right. And memories are fascinating. And that's. That's one of the reasons I kept a journal for. Or keep a journal is to record the memories. Because, again, I say this in the book. It's my way of holding on to my life. Because I can go back in a journal from 10 years ago and read about a dream I had and think, now, oh, that was an interesting dream or an interesting encounter with. With Allison in New York City at the studio. So whatever it know, it's there.
- [06:27]
Alison Stewart
In the book. You write about your parents, there's a lot to take in about them. Did the book help you understand them more?
- [06:37]
Harry Bliss
Yeah, I think that. But most, you know, sadly, most of my understanding came from my parents passing because it all kind of unfolded organically as I was writing about Penny, my parents both passed within a month of each other. Yeah. So I learned about them by going through the house and reading my mom's. I'm still in the process of doing this, by the way. It takes a long time, but. Yeah, so. But it. It's all part of the process of just being human, really. You know, we have to. We have to deal with this and. And understand it so we can move forward in life with more of an understanding.
- [07:21]
Alison Stewart
I mean, you came to the understanding, I think you're right, that your mom. The truth was she was sick.
- [07:26]
Harry Bliss
Yes. She had dementia.
- [07:28]
Alison Stewart
And you dedicate your book to them. Why did you decide to dedicate you Can Never Die to your parents?
- [07:37]
Harry Bliss
Well, because I wouldn't be here without them. And the gift of life, of being alive and experiencing as much of the curiosity that is out there is because of them. How can you not dedicate a book to them, even in light of all the dysfunction and physical abuse they dished out? So it felt right.
- [08:06]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Harry Bliss. His new book is titled you Can Never Die, A Graphic Memoir. He will be at PNT Knitwear tonight at 6:30pm for tickets and more information, head to PC ptnitwear.com All right. I should tell listeners that you have an imaginary interview you did with Terry Gross. Yes, in this book. First of all, why did you use an imaginary interview with Terry Gross in the middle of the book?
- [08:33]
Harry Bliss
Well, the interview. The couple reasons. First of all, the shows take place. The show takes place in Philadelphia. And I spent many years in Philadelphia, formative years. I went to art school there. I worked in various restaurants and. And most of that interview is about giving up my baby for adoption with my then girlfriend in 1986. I couldn't find a window into that topic. It was the only way I knew how to talk about it was if someone was asking me questions. When I started to write about it, it didn't work. So I thought this is a vehicle or some sort of scaffolding for that to be discussed.
- [09:13]
Alison Stewart
It's interesting. You put where she laughs. She laughs at your jokes.
- [09:17]
Harry Bliss
Well, you know what? I did some research. You know, I listened to the show, and I'm a fan, and I, you know, I looked at excerpts and actually figured out exactly what she says, like, so I wanted to sound authentic.
- [09:30]
Alison Stewart
So as you're listening to radio, obviously you had to listen to radio to be able to write this. What did you listen to? Were you listening to Fresh Air? What were you experiencing as you were thinking, like, I'm going to use this as a device, Just objectively, how did you listen?
- [09:44]
Harry Bliss
Well, I. I imagined it. First of all, I'm a huge radio fan. I just. I love radio. I. I wish I was. I wish that was a career for me, but it's too late now. But I love radio. And I really just. I was there in my mind with Terry, you know, and that's how I wrote it. I mean, that's a. A lot of writing. Good writing, I think, is just putting yourself in the moment, you know, and as an artist, I do a lot.
- [10:12]
Alison Stewart
Of that in the moment.
- [10:15]
Harry Bliss
Well, I imagine myself in the studio with Terry, and I imagine what she says, you know, what kind of questions would Terry Gross ask me? What would she laugh at? I know. I'm pretty confident that if Terry reads this interview, I'm pretty sure she'll say, you know what? That's pretty good.
- [10:34]
Alison Stewart
I would laugh there. I would have laughed at the beginning of that question. You have a son, Alex? Yes, from a later relationship, not with Terry Gross. Have your children read this?
- [10:47]
Harry Bliss
Yes. In fact, my son and his partner, Sarah, they live in Brooklyn. They were both very helpful in putting the book together. I wanted youthful kind of eyes on it. And they're both very smart people, and. And I trust them implicitly, and they helped me curate the book.
- [11:06]
Alison Stewart
How so?
- [11:07]
Harry Bliss
Well, the book is a compilation of journal entries, prose, and cartoons. So we needed those things to be kind of meshed together, integrated in a way that was coherent and somewhat funny and interesting. So you can read one of the essays, and the opening cartoon relates to that essay in some way. And Alex and Sarah were really helpful in that. And then the journal pages that may follow the essay have to do with the prose there, too, so they're all kind of related.
- [11:44]
Alison Stewart
And also, you had to figure out how to organize it.
- [11:46]
Harry Bliss
That's right, yeah. Oh, my God, it was so hard to do. Yeah, it was such a. It was like. I want to say it was such a drag, and it kind of was. But it was a very difficult process because we wanted it to be an arc. It had to be an arc. It had to be coherent in a way and true. And people. It's one of the. I think you can pick the book up at various stages. It was over 500 pages when we first did the first edit, and it stands at 400 now. Now, there's a lot of art in the book, but, yeah, it was a lot of work.
- [12:20]
Alison Stewart
That must have been an emotional process.
- [12:23]
Harry Bliss
It was.
- [12:23]
Alison Stewart
And it's so windowing it down.
- [12:25]
Harry Bliss
Yeah, it's tough. We had to decide. There's a couple essays. There was one with James Gandolfini that I really like. That's not in the book. There are a few. And there are some art school essays. Who knows? Maybe I'll get to write another one. Because, honestly, there's some funny stuff in there. But it was really. It was emotional for me, and I cried when I had to do the copy edit, which is brutal. I've not had to do that. But we had to do three and four copy edits of the manuscript, so. And every time I did that, I would cry. I really would. I would laugh, too, because there's some pretty irreverent cartoons in there that would never get published. So.
- [13:02]
Alison Stewart
Just thinking, huh? My guest is Harry Bliss. We're talking about his new book, you Can Never A Graphic memoir. You were. Last time you were on the show. It was with Steve Martin, I think, during the COVID period. The book number one is walking here. What did you learn from working on that project that you were able to use on this project?
- [13:26]
Harry Bliss
Well, I learned from Steve. Working with Steve is great because, first of all, most people don't know this about him. He's really good in the moment. He won't let anything linger. He'll do it right then and there. And he's great off the cuff. But I'm not sure how much I learned from Steve in terms of putting this book together.
- [13:52]
Alison Stewart
How about just the publishing industry about putting books together?
- [13:56]
Harry Bliss
Well, I've published, like, 25 kids books, so I'm not sure. I think the copy edit was important.
- [14:01]
Alison Stewart
Copy edit.
- [14:02]
Harry Bliss
And going back and looking at all the material Steve's also really. He's very particular about. He wants to make sure that it reads right. It has to read right. Or that has to. Has to have a certain rhythm to it. I mean, I kind of knew that stuff going in because those are cartoons and it has to have a rhythm to it. But it's more about the things I learned from Steve are more about the person he is, as opposed to. Yeah. Anything else?
- [14:28]
Alison Stewart
Well, what did you learn about yourself while you were writing this?
- [14:32]
Harry Bliss
I learned that I loved my parents. I loved my parents. It's too bad. I learned that after they died, I had love that was. It was there. And it's unfortunate that I'm expressing it now, and I had ample opportunities to express it when they were alive, and that was the big learn. But they didn't make it easy for me, so. Yeah. And people would tell me, you know, you should go talk to your parents, but you should go, you know, know, spend some time with your parents. But I didn't listen. I didn't listen.
- [15:15]
Alison Stewart
You're spending time with them now.
- [15:17]
Harry Bliss
I am. I wake up. Yeah. My brother got me this little. A little oven mitt that has a photograph of my parents on it. And every morning I. I come down to that. I'm in Cornish, New Hampshire. I come down to the house in the kitchen and look at the oven mat, and I say, hey, Mom. Hey, dad. What's going on? How you guys doing? Good to see you. And same thing with Penny. You know, Penny is buried out back, and, you know, she's around. They're around.
- [15:42]
Alison Stewart
I have to ask you. You live in Cornish. You live in Salinger's former home? Yes, yes.
- [15:49]
Harry Bliss
Is that Jerry? We call him Jerry.
- [15:53]
Alison Stewart
Is the address that's written in the front of your book your address?
- [15:57]
Harry Bliss
It is my address. And it's funny, because my wife said the same thing. You mean you put your actual address in the book and. Yes, but it's not hard to find. All you have to do is Google JD Salinger's house and you can find it. It's not like we live in this world today where people can't find me, it doesn't get any easier than a flip phone. Or not a flip phone, but an iPhone.
- [16:19]
Alison Stewart
Do people visit? Just show up?
- [16:21]
Harry Bliss
Some people stop by the. We'll drive by and take pictures of the house. But it's a dirt road. There's a lot of deer. There's a lot of ticks. You know, good luck. Good luck coming to my house. You know, it's not easy to get there.
- [16:35]
Alison Stewart
So if you go on an average day, you're gonna draw. People are gonna see you draw. You draw every day?
- [16:40]
Harry Bliss
Yes, I draw every single day. I draw and write every day. I draw, read, and write every day and drink.
- [16:50]
Alison Stewart
What's your practice like? Do you just. Are you doodling around? Are you sitting down to truly draw something?
- [16:58]
Harry Bliss
My. Most of my practice is in a journal. I wake up every morning, take the dog out across the street, come back in, make the coffee, feed the dog, drop down in a lazy Boy, break out the journal, the Mont Blanc miser, stuck fountain pen, and I start writing. You know what? How did I sleep? What's the day look like? What. What dream did I have last night? What's on my palette for the day? You know, what's going on for the day? And then I'll draw a square. I'll just draw a square and start putting ink to paper. It could be a tree. It could be a dog at the tree, and maybe the dog's looking up at the tree. These are things I like to draw, but there's no cartoon idea there. I'll draw something that is begging for a narrative, and the narrative informs a caption, and then it becomes a bliss cartoon. They're. Now they're. They're not always all funny. They can be cute, you know, but that's my process.
- [17:57]
Alison Stewart
And there's a new canine person in your. In your family?
- [18:01]
Harry Bliss
Yeah, Junior. Yeah, he's.
- [18:03]
Alison Stewart
Tell us about Junior.
- [18:05]
Harry Bliss
He's amazing. He's amazing. He's an Aussie shepherd, and he's brown, like mocha and white, and, you know, he's just the best. He's so sweet. You know, they're very active, hyper dogs. Most of them are. I wouldn't say hyper, but they need a lot of running around. But he. And he does as well. But he's also just so sweet. Everybody calls him the Timothy Chalamet of dogs. He's gorgeous. He really is gorgeous. And. But I'll tell you, it's this thing of pet loss when you lose a pet. I look at Junior now. And I know it's coming. I know this massive grief is coming and I'm still reckoning with it. I just don't know. I don't know how to deal with it. Just suffering. It's just. I know the suffering is coming.
- [18:51]
Alison Stewart
You could go first.
- [18:52]
Harry Bliss
What's that?
- [18:53]
Alison Stewart
You could go first before him. It's not worried. Ya. That's his problem.
- [18:57]
Harry Bliss
It's very Charles Adams of you. You're right. You know what? That might not be so bad. I wouldn't have to go through it. But suffering is part of the love, you know, if you suffer, you know, you've loved. So yeah.
- [19:15]
Alison Stewart
The book is called you'd Can Never Die. A Graphic Memoir. Harry Bliss will be at PNT Knitwear tonight at 6:30pm thanks for coming to the studio.
- [19:24]
Harry Bliss
Thanks, Alison.
- [19:26]
Progressive Insurance
Since WNYC's first broadcast in 1924, we've been dedicated to creating the kind of content we know the world needs. Since then, New York Public Radio's rigorous journalism has gone on to win a Peabody Award and a Dupont Columbia Award, among others. In addition to this award winning reporting, your sponsorship also supports inspiring storytelling and extraordinary music that is free and accessible to all. To get in touch and find out more, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.