Celebrating Children's Music in 'Happy and You Know It'

Summary

All Of It — “Celebrating Children's Music in 'Happy and You Know It'”

Host: Tiffany Hansen, in for Alison Stewart
Guest: Penny Lane (Director, Happy and You Know It)
Date: December 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a joyful, insightful dive into the world of children’s music, using Penny Lane’s new HBO documentary Happy and You Know It as a catalyst for conversation. From beloved classics like "The Wheels on the Bus" to viral sensations like "Baby Shark," the episode explores what makes kids’ music tick and why it’s such a powerful—and sometimes divisive—force for families.

Listeners call and text in to share their nostalgic favorites, while Lane and Hansen go behind the scenes on the creative process, the career of notable artists like The Wiggles and Laurie Berkner, and how children’s music has evolved (and sometimes stubbornly stayed the same!). There’s also a celebration of community and intergenerational bonding through the simple act of singing together.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes a Great Children’s Song?

• Catchiness Is Key:

  “It’s got to be catchy. That’s the number one thing. That’s the thing that makes it great and the thing that can make it a little crazy. Crazy-making for the parents sometimes.” — Penny Lane (02:22)

• Humor Matters:

  “The big thing that we tend to forget about is humor. Kids love a joke, they love a setup, they love a punchline, they like something silly, something surprising. They like a good joke. And the humor factor is huge in kids music.” — Penny Lane (02:52)

The Evolution and Endurance of Kids’ Music

• Standards That Don’t Fade:

  “These songs that work for the youngest among us kind of remain the same from generation to generation.” — Penny Lane (07:16)

• Media Ecosystem Shifts:
  Kids now find music through YouTube, video games, Spotify, rather than LPs or cassettes.
• Sharing Across Generations:
  Nostalgia is a powerful thread, binding parents and children through shared favorites and traditions.

Creative Process & Artists’ Motivations

• Knowing Your Audience:

  “A great children’s artist is good at...knowing their audience. The age group we were looking at in the film is really kind of zero to five...they aren’t little adults.” — Penny Lane (03:30)

• From Educator to Star (Laurie Berkner):
  Laurie Berkner’s breakthrough came when she stopped trying to predict what kids should like, and instead asked them—and wrote “We Are The Dinosaurs” on the spot. (14:28)
• Personalization:
  Songs using a child’s name offer “a little bit of magic” that draws kids deeper into the music. Personalized children’s music was discussed by caller Cindy (18:48).

The Parent Perspective:

• Not ‘Dumbing Down’ the Music:

  “My entry point into that music was not dumbing down music for children and making sure that the adults in the background are enjoying the experience as much as the kids.” — Mike, caller and family musician (10:05)

• Aiming for Intergenerational Enjoyment:
  Penny Lane highlights that the best music “brings the family together, like everyone in the same room singing the same song.” (11:01)
• Parental Agony (and Ecstasy):

  “Most parents, they don’t know whether to, like, punch me in the face or give me a hug...on the one hand, it makes their kids so happy, but on the other hand, it can be tough on the parents to have, like, a song like ‘Fruit Salad’ play 17 times in a row.” — Penny Lane, quoting Anthony from The Wiggles (32:28)

Representation and Genre Diversity

• Broadening the Sound:
  Divinity Roxx brings hip hop into the children’s music space, addressing the genre’s limitations and the desire for authentic diversity. (22:28)
• Honoring Pioneers:
  Ella Jenkins and Gullah Gullah Island praised for incorporating African American culture and humor.
• Kids’ Music is ‘Genre Agnostic’:

  “Children’s music, again, is genre agnostic. It can be anything. It can be country, it can be Latin, it can be folk, whatever.” — Penny Lane (22:28)

Why Do Kids Love Repetition?

• Repetition Aids Mastery & Regulation:

  “Repetition is really important. For kids, like, that’s what helps them gain confidence...it helps them own it and master it.” — Penny Lane (32:53) Adults, too, find emotional regulation in familiar music or TV.

Music and Human Connection

• It’s About Bonding More Than Teaching:

  “Singing to your kids is like the most beautiful thing I can possibly think of...it’s about creating this bonding experience between generations.” — Penny Lane (23:46)

• Music Starts Pre-Verbally:

  “Music is so deeply human. It’s like inside of us from before we’re even born. We understand music, we love music, but it’s preverbal.” — Penny Lane (16:01)

• Rawness of the Audience:

  “Kids are just the craziest kids. If these kids act this way at a Fugazi show, you’d kick him out.” — Penny Lane (quoting Caspar Babypants, 27:09)

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Listener Favorites & Memorable Moments

• Raffi: Overwhelmingly the G.O.A.T., as several callers/texts affirmed. His music described as timeless, soothing for homesick college students, and beloved across generations. (12:01)
• Mary Poppins, Julie Andrews, and Dick Van Dyke: A source of lifelong appreciation for caller Stephen. (09:00)
• The Wiggles:
  Described as “the Rolling Stones of toddler music.” Huge, international, multigenerational fan base. Their song “Fruit Salad” gets a play and sparks parent confessionals. (31:03)
• Laurie Berkner: Focused on what kids want—like dinosaurs!—and never gets old, according to multiple callers. (15:19)
• They Might Be Giants & Barenaked Ladies: Surprise mentions as artists who made kids’ albums that still hold up for parents. (12:35, 22:02)
• Caspar Babypants: Former rockstar turned kindie legend, praised for creativity and family-friendly tracks. (27:09)
• Divinity Roxx: Brings hip hop influences—“Worldwide Play Date”—and the energy of parental genres. (25:15)
• Classical Music: Shout-outs to “Peter and the Wolf,” the Classical Kids series, and the belief (tongue-in-cheek) that it can make kids smarter. (26:04, 26:38)
• Wee Sing, Gullah Gullah Island, Danny Kaye, Ella Jenkins, Pete Seeger, Free To Be You and Me: All receive loving tributes from callers.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

• The Unstoppable “Baby Shark” Factor:

  “The germ of it was really Baby Shark...finding out one day that there was this thing called Baby Shark that was not only so successful that it was the most played YouTube video of all time...that toddlers could have that big of an influence in the market. That was the beginning.” — Penny Lane (04:20)

• Why Move and Sing?

  “For the 0 to 5 year olds, the thing they remind you of immediately about music is that music is physical...even a little four-month-old baby...they’ll bounce to the rhythm...It’s preverbal.” — Penny Lane (16:01)

• On the Purity of Kids’ Tastes:

  “They don’t care about what’s cool. They have a very more pure relationship to art, I think.” — Penny Lane (27:57)

• On Parental Endurance:

  “There’s something special about music that they understand was made for them...it’s a kind of ownership for them. It’s their music. They know it’s different than mom and dad’s music.” — Penny Lane (13:20)

• Nostalgia’s Power:

  “The art that you take in at that age really does stay with you for life in ways that you can’t kind of believe in some ways.” — Penny Lane (29:52)

• Describe the Wiggles:

  “The Wiggles are like the Rolling Stones of toddler music. They can sell out Madison Square Garden 10 nights in a row.” — Penny Lane (30:38)

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Featured Songs & Segments

• Laurie Berkner – “We Are The Dinosaurs” (15:19)
• Divinity Roxx – “Worldwide Play Date” (25:15)
• The Wiggles – “Fruit Salad” (31:03)
• Baby Shark closes the show (34:47)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

| Time | Segment/Event | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:10 | Introduction, episode preview | | 02:22 | What makes a good kids’ song (Penny Lane) | | 04:20 | Why make a film about kids’ music? The “Baby Shark” phenomenon | | 10:05 | Family musician Mike on not dumbing down music for children | | 14:28 | Laurie Berkner’s origin story (“We Are The Dinosaurs”) | | 18:48 | Cindy on personalized music cassettes & NASA wakeup song | | 22:28 | On Divinity Roxx broadening kid’s music genres with hip hop | | 23:46 | On the importance of singing to kids and family bonding through music | | 25:15 | Clip: “Worldwide Play Date” by Divinity Roxx | | 27:09 | Caspar Babypants: Comparing playing for kids to a “drunk audience” | | 29:52 | The lasting emotional power of childhood music | | 30:38 | Penny Lane explains the enduring power and fame of The Wiggles | | 31:03 | Clip: “Fruit Salad” by The Wiggles | | 32:28 | Parent reactions to kids’ music (cynicism and delight) | | 34:47 | Closing: “Baby Shark” |

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a playful, inclusive, and reflective tone, honoring both the joyful chaos of children’s music and its ability to generate both laughter and exhaustion for parents. Listeners’ voices present a chorus of nostalgia, celebration, and honest humor about what it means to love—sometimes reluctantly!—the music of childhood.

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Final Takeaways

The documentary Happy and You Know It and this conversation with Penny Lane reveal that children’s music isn’t just educational, or just fun, or just for kids—it’s a cultural glue that links generations, builds family memories, and reminds us all of the profound, simple joy of singing together. Whether it makes you sing along or cringe, whether you’re in it for the nostalgia or the new beats, kids’ music matters.

Highly recommended for parents, music lovers, and anyone interested in how culture starts—joyfully—at the very beginning.

Transcript

[A]

This is all of it. I'm Tiffany Hansen in for Alison Stewart. Thanks so much for spending part of this rainy Friday with us. We're so glad you're here. On today's show, we're going to mark a couple of big anniversaries. Alexander Calder's Circus turns 100. We'll talk about the exhibit at the Whitney Museum that celebrates this iconic work. And the national dance institute turns 50. We'll learn about the benefits of getting kids involved in dance at an early age. And then tomorrow, the West Village Corral will embark upon their traditional Greenwich Village Carol Walk. But first, they're going to join us in studio for a live performance. That's the plan. So let's get started with the documentary Happy and you. From the Wheels on the Bus to the Itsy Bitsy Spider, some children's songs just grab you at a young age and never let go. But being a children's musician is about more than the ability to write a catchy tune. It's about engaging kids, getting their minds and bodies working and helping them embrace their imagination. The new documentary Happy and you know it spotlights children's musicians and their careers, from mainstays like the Wiggles to newcomers like Divinity Rocks. These artists open up about their creative process and what drives them to make great songs for kids. And yes, they do talk about Baby Shark Happy and you know, it was directed by acclaimed documentarian Penny Lane. It'll pre it premieres on HBO and HBO Max on Christmas Day. And Penny Lane joins us now to discuss. Hi, Penny.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

And of course, listeners. We want to hear from you. What was your favorite children's musician, your favorite kids song when you were growing up? What musicians do your kids love to listen to? What song can't they get enough of? What song can you get enough of? Maybe. Penny, 212-433-9692. You can call us, you can text us at that number. So you've spent a good amount of time now, Penny, talking about kids music. So I'm sure you I'm imagining you have an opinion about what makes a good kid song.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. It's got to be catchy. That's the number one thing. That's the thing that makes it great and the thing that can make it a little crazy. Crazy making for the parents sometimes.

[A]

Do you think it's different? Obviously, I think it's gonna be different between what you and I as adults think that's a great that's a good kid song. I can get behind that kid's Song and what if I had, if we had someone sitting here who was seven, who would say, you know, what makes a good kid's song? What do you think the difference is? Or is there a difference?

[B]

I think the main thing that we adults like to think about is like educational value, which is really important and great. And that might be like counting or the Alphabet or any of those things which are very important. I think the big thing that we tend to forget about is humor. Kids love a joke, they love a setup, they love a punchline, they like something silly, something surprising. They like a good joke. And the humor factor is huge in kids music.

[A]

You talked to a lot of the musicians for the film. Did they give you any insight about how, you know, what their process is and how they go about writing a quote unquote, good kids song?

[B]

Yeah, I mean the thing that, that, that a good, great, a great children's artist is good at is knowing their audience. You know, the, the age group that we were looking at in the film is really kind of zero to five. Like we wanted to really hone in, hone in on like those youngest fans of music and what we could learn about music from them and what these kids, you know, really, they, they aren't little adults. Like they're, they're, they've got very different minds. Like the mind of an infant or the mind of a toddler. It. They're interested in different things than grownups, of course.

[A]

Right. And when did you get interested in kids music? I mean, obviously you were a kid, so you probably listened to some kids music when you were little. Was this. You know, I'm just, I guess I'm thinking more about like how this documentary came. Idea came to you.

[B]

Yeah, the Germany, the germ of it was really Baby Shark. I'm not a parent, so I am very much outside of this world in my day to day life. And finding out one day that there was this thing called Baby Shark that was not only so successful that it was the most played YouTube video of all time by like a huge factor. Like there's nowhere, nothing else is even close. And that, that it's essentially kind of a toddler pop song. That toddlers could have that big of an influence in the market. That was the beginning of the, of the exploration for me, which is finding that out. I didn't know. I learned about it from a culture journalist named Willa Paskin who's in our film. And I just sort of started diving into the world of children's music from there. Trying to learn More about it.

[A]

Penny, we got a text here. I made my older siblings absolutely bonkers. Playing. Playing on repeat and on my record player. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and singing along loudly. We're talking about kids music listeners. We want you to join this conversation. Penny Lane here has a new documentary out on HBO and HBO Max coming out on Christmas Day. It's called Happy and you'd know it. You can let us know your favorite musician, your favorite kids song, what you love, what you hate about kids music. You can give us a call at 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that number. Did you listen to kids music when you were growing up?

[B]

I don't know that I really did. I mean, I think I did to the extent that a lot of people do, which is I listened to music that was associated with like my favorite Disney movies or maybe Sesame Street.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna Sesame Street. Yes.

[B]

There's a huge overlap with like media, like popular culture and like film and tv. But as far as like art, like we didn't listen to Raffy growing up or anything like that. So for me it was more like my mom liked the B52s and so did I. Like. So we got, we got down to some rock lobster in my house.

[A]

Right. I want to get back to that because I think there's some. There's a nugget there about us listening as kids to our parents music. But you mentioned Rafi. Here we have a text. Rafi's Baby Beluga was one of my favorite favorites as a kid in the 80s and my favorite bedtime song for my kids today. His music feels timeless. Doesn't make me cringe in the way that some kids music does today. Not naming names, but Baby Shark, this person says that's Casey and Sleepy Hollow. I think that kids, you know, we're talking about Rafi in the 80s. I think kids music has evolved quite a bit from, you know, our Sesame street days to, I don't know, Frozen. Right. And so how do you think about that evolution? Is it kind of going along with kids as they become more sophisticated, the music is becoming more sophisticated or I.

[B]

Don'T know if the music is becoming more sophisticated. I think, you know, again, aiming at that 0 to 5 year old range, like they're always going to like the kind of music that 0 to 5 year olds like. And I don't think that's why so many of these songs end up becoming standards that we pass down from generation to Generation. Like you mentioned Itsy Bitsy Spider. That one still works. Like, you don't need to. You don't need to change anything about Izzy. Bitsy Spider, you know, so these songs that work for the youngest among us kind of remain the same from generation to generation. What changes is, of course, the media ecosystem that we have. Right. So maybe you put on an LP record on your, like, Fisher Price record player. That's not what a kid is doing today. They are likely finding music through video games or through YouTube or maybe Spotify. Like, it's just a very different kind of ecosystem that they're working inside of.

[A]

Yeah, you, you mentioned Rock Lobster. I had a 45 of Alec alligator Rock. Is that. Oh, yeah. So I used to love that.

[B]

Kids like animal songs.

[A]

Kids like animal songs. Another text. Rafi. Duh. Another one. Puff the Magic Dragon, Peter Paul and Mary. At my first concert when I was a kid, it captivated me. All right, let's bring Stephen to the conversation. Hi, Stephen.

[C]

Is that me?

[A]

It is you.

[C]

Oh, Tiffany to you and everybody. Happy holidays. Listen, and, and safe and safe and healthy. So for me, when, as soon as I hear this, I immediately it's. It's Mary Poppins. It's super califragilistic. It's Chim Shimmery, it's.

[D]

It's.

[C]

Especially anyone who's, you know, of this vintage will remember when medicine, you needed a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down because it was not, you know, it was not fashionable to sweeten, you know, format, you know, any oral pharmaceuticals at the time. And, and then, and then that became for me, this just this lifelong appreciation, I don't want to say obsession and appreciation for, for Julie Andrews.

[A]

Love it.

[C]

You know, all things Julie Andrews and Dick Van dyke.

[A]

Yeah. Just 100 years old Dick Van Dyke. Oh, we love that. Thank you, Stephen. Also, you know, Mickey Mouse Club was back in the day, you know, M I C. See you real soon. All right, let's go to Mike in Hudson Valley. Hi, Mike.

[C]

Hey, how are you doing?

[A]

Doing all right.

[D]

You had awesome.

[C]

Well, I was really happy to hear this program on. And I come from the kids music world. I co wrote some albums with Family Jam Band. And my entry point, my entry point into that music was not dumbing down music for children and making sure that the adults in the background are enjoying the experience as much as the kids. And we thought that was really important. Again, I haven't seen this film. I'm really excited to see it. So I don't know, you know, the Basic, you know, premise is what I'm hearing as I'm listening to this program. But that was really important to us and many of in the what's called the kindy world that were really trying to write progressive music and music that had weight and that would have staying power.

[A]

Love it. Yeah. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate that. Penny, any reaction to that first, because you're chiming in here, so.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. No, I think that, you know, it was important to us that we were making a music documentary about musicians. So that's why the movie's not about, like, you know, sort of the Disney music or the Sesame street or even Mary Poppins, all of which is fabulous and a huge part of what kids love for us. We wanted to make a movie about adult musicians who. Working musicians, professionals who choose to make music for this audience. And what your caller said that's so important is that the best music of this genre doesn't make the parents crazy. It makes them happy, too. We're looking to make music that brings the family together, like everyone in the same room singing the same song. And that is the sweet spot that these artists are looking for. It's really music for families.

[A]

Yeah. And we, you know, man, we're getting a lot of love here for Raffi. Raffi was a. Rafi is the goat. Right. A staple for the car ride with my kids when they were babies. Toddler recently found out. This speaks to your point here. Penny recently found out that my daughter played him when she got homesick while away in college.

[B]

Oh, I love that story so much. I think that's so beautiful. That was part of the audience we were thinking about was, you know, like, the Wiggles are in our film. They're a big part of the film. And the Wiggles have been around long enough now where adults can listen to the Wiggles and feel that beautiful nostalgia for their own youth, or parents can listen to it. Whose kids have grown up and remember that era.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Where the Wiggles was the soundtrack of. Maybe they haven't thought of the wiggles in 20 years, but, you know, it's. It can be a really nostalgic thing.

[A]

Couple shouts out here, too, for Lori Berkner.

[B]

Yeah. Lori Berkner.

[A]

They Might Be Giants. Another. They did a great kids album.

[B]

They've done a few, I think.

[A]

Oh, have they? Okay. You can tell when my kids aged out, right?

[B]

Well, I should say Lori Berkner's in our film. She's one of our stars. She's huge. We love Lori.

[A]

We love Lori. Okay. My parents are Beatles fans, and they have so many kid friendly songs like Yellow Submarine, Rocky Raccoon. You know, this is one thing I was gonna ask you about is that we as kids, I think, are introduced a lot to, like, the music of our parents generation. Like, I was listening to.

[B]

Well, my name is Penny Lane, so you may be surprised to hear the Beatles was a big part of my childhood too.

[A]

But we're whatever our parents are into, whatever they had on the radio when you were in the car is kind of like an introduction to music that is outside of the quote unquote kids genre, definitely.

[B]

And I think that that's important. So for, you know, a lot of parents would say, oh, we don't need, like, kids music, per. My kids love the Clash or whatever, and that's awesome. Kids love all music, but there's something special about music that they understand was made for them, that it's a kind of ownership for them. It's their music. They know it's different than mom and dad's music, and that's like a way of paying respect to them as well.

[A]

Yeah. All right, we're going to bring Cece in the conversation here. Penny. Hi, Cece.

[D]

Hey, thanks so much. Lori Berkner.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

When she was first starting, my mother saw her on a show, one of the morning shows, and she immediately bought the cassette, which, of course, back then you could buy cassettes and you could play them in the car, and we did nonstop. And I'll tell you, we never got sick of her.

[B]

No, you can't get sick of her. I sing her to this day.

[D]

My son is 30, I'm 71, and she's fabulous. So I understand she's part of. Part of your program, so that's great. Thanks so much.

[B]

Oh, good. Thank you.

[D]

And thank you all for being there. And happy holidays.

[A]

Yes, thank you. All right, so tell us a little bit about Laurie's presence in the film.

[B]

So the film is a kind of group portrait of five artists, and Laurie's one of them. And Laurie tells her origin story, which is that she was a music educator in, I think, a preschool class. And she just was terrible. She could not figure out how to keep these kids attention. She was trying to figure out what would hook them in. And then finally, after many, many months of sort of stress and trying to hook them in with music that she loved, she was like, what do you gu want to sing about? And the kids were like, we want to sing about dinosaurs. And she kind of, on the spot, kind of wrote this song. Which if any of your listeners are familiar with Laurie, they'll know We Are the Dinosaurs, a classic tune that emerged out of that moment of desperation of trying to figure out what do these kids want to sing about.

[A]

Penny, we have that song. Let's listen to it a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We are the dinosaurs Marching, marching We are the dinosaurs what do you think of that? We are the dinosaurs Marching, marching We are the dinosaurs that make the earth flat.

[A]

I, I lost a text in my thread here, but we had someone say, you know, some great kids songs have like arm movements that go with it or some kind of like dance move that they can get it right. So there's lots of stomping in the. Dining in the. We are at the dinosaurs.

[B]

Yeah, those again, for the 0 to 5 year olds, the thing that they remind you of immediately about music is that music is physical. It's like you feel it in your body. You feel the emotion. You want to move, you want to, you know, get. You know, as Laurie says in the film, even a little four month old baby who's barely moving, they can start. They'll bounce to the rhythm of a song. And so it reminds you that music is so deeply human. It's like inside of us from before we're even born. We, we understand music, we love music, but it's preverbal. It's essentially preverbal. Like at its core it's about your body and your feelings and like. Yeah. So all the great kids songs are going to have movements. They're going to be really clear with like what the movements might be that you can do even if you're barely moving around as a human yet.

[A]

All right, Penny, let's talk with Kathy in Somerset, New Jersey. Hi, Kathy.

[D]

Hi. I'm really excited about the documentary. Also. I was raising very young children in the 1980s and I have a few artists I want to throw out. Ella Jenkins.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

African American. I started playing her for my kids and it was a while listening. After a while, it was just from an lp. I told myself, oh, wow, I think she's black. I didn't realize that at first and then once I realized that and started listening closely, she brings in beautifully beautiful music and African American culture. Another artist that does that is Gullah Gala Island. Yes, that was. I really love the music and the humor in that. Jim Gill, to me, is brilliant. He's hilarious and extremely beautiful music and very touching. The lyrics are just wonderful.

[A]

Kathy, thanks so much for that call. You have another artist that I want to touch on when we come back to Divinity Rocks. So let's put that on our docket. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll also get to more more calls. We're talking about a new documentary called Happy and you know it premiering on HBO and HBO MAX on Christmas Day. The filmmaker Penny Lane talking with us now about it. Of course, we want you to join this conversation, 212-433-9692. We'll get to more of your calls in just a minute. It I'm Tiffany Hansen in for Alison Stewart. Don't go anywhere. This is all of it here on wnyc. I'm Tiffany Hansen. We are talking kids music and specifically the documentary Happy and you know it, directed by acclaimed documentarian Penny Lane. It's premiering on HBO and HBO MAX on Christmas Day. And we're going to, as I promised here, Penny. We're going to get right back to our callers. Cindy in Danbury. Hi, Cindy.

[D]

Hi.

[B]

Hi.

[D]

My name is Cindy Rosenbaum. And back in 1989, my husband and I started a company called Happy Kids Productions, and we wrote personalized music for kids using their names in the songs. And the kids absolutely love this. We sold hundreds and hundreds of thousands of audio cassette tapes back in the day. And one of songs from that first album called Magical Journeys we had written for our son Jason, who's now 41, I think, and he was really into the space shuttle. So we wrote a wonderful song called the Space Shuttle, the Space Shuttle Boy or the Space Shuttle Girl. And actually the the space shuttle astronauts, when they used to go up on space shuttle missions, they could pick a song for their wake up up Call song. And one one time one of the astronauts picked our space shuttle song.

[A]

That.

[D]

Was their son's favorite song.

[A]

I love it. Cindy. That's so great. Cindy, thank you so much for that call. You know what it reminds me of? I don't know. There's a show, I'm forgetting the woman's name where she used to look into a mirror and she would say I see so and so and I see so and so at the end of her show. And like you would, I waited every episode for her to say my name. Oh, I love that. Of course, she never did.

[B]

It just reminds you of like that that like little bit of magic that you can really see in a chat room.

[A]

Thank you. Kate, our producer, coming in with Romper Room. Yeah. You know, there's something about personalizing, like Cindy was saying about bringing the kid. You know, it just draws them in Even further. Right.

[B]

Well, kids are pretty egocentric.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, so you have to appeal directly to them. Yes.

[A]

The world. I mean, evolutionarily speaking, there. The world still revolves around that until a certain age. All right, Eileen and Weehawken. Hi, Eileen. Hi.

[B]

Can you hear me?

[A]

We can.

[D]

Hello. Yes. Oh, good, good. Well, first, I want to reflect back on Mommy, Give Me a Drink of Water, which was a Danny K record. The songs were written by words and music by Milton Schaeffer and Gordon Jenkins, the great orchestrator for Sinatra and stuff. The songs were these lush, beautiful orchestrations, and I don't know. Anyway, that was a seminal thing in my childhood, but it was also in the mix of other people have said, you know, musical theaters, cast albums, Mary Poppins, all that stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you, Eileen. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for that. You know, going way back in the Wayback Machine for Danny Kaye.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But, you know, we also got a text here. I was raised on the songs of folk artists like Bur Lives, Pete Seeger. Very kid friendly, fun, encouraging audience participation.

[B]

It's great stuff. And it's, you know, whatever you loved as a kid, I think you can feel confident your kids are going to love it, too. Like, it really is. They don't care if it came out this year or 20 years ago or like, 40 years ago. They don't care what genre it is. They don't care if it's cool. Like, if you loved singing it as a kid, it's a good chance your kid will love it, too.

[D]

Go.

[A]

Amanda in Maywood, New Jersey, says the Bare Naked Ladies had an amazing children's album called Snack Time. Wow.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

I did not know that either.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I also promised Penny that we would talk about Divinity Rocks. We see her in your film. She used to be a bass player in Beyonce's band. Well, we can listen to one of her songs here in a second, but tell us what's kind of new and exciting and fresh about what she's doing.

[B]

What Divi is doing is she is trying to draw on, you know, hip hop as a kind of, like, baseline place from which to make children's music. Children's music, again, is genre agnostic. It can be anything. It can be country, it can be Latin, it can be folk, whatever. She was kind of responding to a perception that she had that there was a lot of folk music but not a lot of other genres that we were drawing on for kids. So that's where she's coming from.

[A]

Penny, let's bring Martin in. West Windsor, New Jersey, into the conversation. Hi, Martin.

[C]

Hi, I'm here. Yeah. There's an album by Barbara Streisand, kill My name is Barbara. And she has two great kids, sings on it. One is I'm five, which actually was a Danny Kaye thing way back. And she also has one called Kid Zoo, which my daughter, to put her to bed every night, I would sing it to her. And I'm not a good singer, but it starts out, I dream of a sense that I was a tiger in the jungle. And it goes through all these different animals and ends with, I enjoy being an oyster. My daughter would love singing it and I would joy being. And I let her do the last line. Oyster.

[A]

Yeah. Thank you so much for that. Martin and Margaret in Manhattan. Hi, Margaret, are you there? Margaret? Margaret. Margaret is not there.

[B]

I would just say one thing about that, which is that singing to your kids is like the most beautiful thing I can possibly think of. And none of us need to be good singers. Your kid doesn't care if you're a good singer. And there's something so beautiful about that. One of the kids in the film, I asked this little four year old boy, what do you love about music? And he answered immediately. I like to sit next to my mom and I could just cry thinking about that. Like, that's what. That's what matters. It's about creating this bonding experience between generations, between parents and grandparents and kids and siblings, and that's what this music is all about. It's not, you know, there just to teach you how to count. It's there to connect you to, like, the people that you already love.

[A]

Well, that brings me back to Divinity Rocks because I do want to play that song I promised we were gonna play. And that is that, you know, it is a little bit about connecting to the type of music that your parents listen to. Right. Because she comes from a genre that parents listen to. Is she aware of that?

[B]

Yeah, she may not. You know, she's saying, specifically, I'm making music for people whose references are a little different. Like, maybe they're not that excited to listen to Pete Seeger, even though Pete Seeger's great.

[A]

Right? Right. All right, let's listen to. Let's listen to Worldwide Play Date. It's Divinity Rocks. It's a play Date. Everybody jump in.

[D]

Hey, go get your.

[A]

I want to play. Calling up my friends to make a play day. Best day ever.

[D]

I just want to say I hope it never ends.

[A]

Can we do this every day? See this little baby got it started. Okay, one of the things that I also immediately notice about this song, aside from the. The catchiness of it. Right. Is the kids chorus in the back. There's a little bit of that hearing yourself kind of reflected back in you that I think kids love, too.

[B]

Again, toddlers egocentric. That's their developmental stage. So hearing a kid's voice is, like, really, really helps to hook them in a little bit.

[A]

Speaking of genres that we haven't necessarily talked much about yet, we'll get back to Margaret here. Margaret, I think you're there.

[D]

Yes, I am here. I wanted to mention Peter and the Wolf because I adored that when I was young. I'm old, and I used to listen to Eleanor Roosevelt narrating it. And then my. My son used to listen to Peter Ustinoff. And then my grandchildren listen.

[A]

Oh, shoot, we lost Margaret.

[B]

Oh, yep. Oh, you're cutting.

[A]

You're cutting in and out. But, Margaret, we got you.

[B]

It's like many classical places. I mean, you know, think about, you know, the Aquarium song. Like, I can hear it right now.

[A]

You know, there's classical kids that you. That I played for my. Both of my kids when they were in. Yeah, in utero. I put the headphones on, and there was that, like, Classical Kids album that was like. I don't. I don't remember what it is now, but it was supposed to make them smart.

[B]

I'm sure it did.

[A]

You know, one of the things that A comment that you got in the film that, like, stuck with me is that. And I can't remember now who said it, but that playing for kids is like playing for the best drunk audience ever.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that was Casper Baby Pants. Okay, who should know, because he used to be the front man of a big rock band called the Presidents of the United States of America in the 90s. And he retired from being a pop superstar, and now he's like this legendary kindy music artist. And he said, yeah, kids are just the craziest kids. If these kids act this way at a fugazi show, you'd kick him out.

[A]

We got a text, actually, from Jeremy in Montclair, says, caspar Baby Pants, best album for our kids from 2015 on. And we still sing Bad Bluebird, Emotional Robot. Super creative and smart and sweet.

[B]

So good.

[A]

So good.

[B]

The best, honestly. He's got 19 albums. Every one of those songs is terrific. And it's so great for the whole family to sing along to.

[A]

What is refreshing about the way kids interact with music.

[B]

They don't care about what's cool. They haven't gotten there yet. The day you find out. The day you go to school and find out some music that you love is not cool is a sad, sad, sad day, in my opinion. They just aren't there yet. They have a very more pure relationship to art. I think.

[A]

They can also be really brutally honest.

[B]

Very honest. They will not sit there and clap for you and pretend to be into it. Like, they will just walk away.

[A]

Let's talk with Ness in Morristown. Hi, Ness. Ness, are you there? No, we don't have.

[D]

Hello?

[A]

Oh, there she is. Hi.

[D]

Hi. It's actually Heath, but I wanted to give a shout out because I haven't heard yet about we sing on this segment yet. I gotta talk about we sing. I'm a 90s kid.

[C]

And.

[D]

There were cassettes. There were also movies on vhs. And when I tell you that these movies are like works of art in terms of the costume design, the background design, never mind the music. But the music is so awesome and not patronizing at all. There are songs that I grew up with that I later learned were, like, part of the American Songbook that were spiritual or folk music. It's just incredible. I've tried showing my boyfriend and, like, my friends as adults. I was like, you gotta watch We Sing in Sillyville. You gotta watch the marvelous musical Mansion. And I don't know if they entirely got it. I don't know if they were into it the way I was. But I. I'm 32 now. I'm an artist, and it had a huge impact on me and Bank's mom and dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I think we had almost the complete collection of the beauty.

[A]

Love it, Ness. Thank you so much. Nostalgia is a big part here.

[B]

It is, Yeah, I think so. Because everyone understands that there's something special about, like, what's going on in your life when you're just a little, tiny kid. And the art that you ingest at that. Ingests is a weird word, but the art that you take in at that age really does stay with you for life in ways that you can't kind of believe in some ways.

[A]

You know, we're getting a lot of texts here about free to be you and me. That's a sesame. Is that Sesame? Was that Sesame Street?

[B]

I don't know, actually. I don't know if it's Sesame Street.

[A]

That was Alan Alda and Marlo Thomas Kate coming in. You know, we can't leave this conversation without talking about the Wiggles. The Wiggles. For people who don't know, explain the Wiggles.

[B]

I mean, how do you explain the Wiggles? The Wiggles are like the Rolling Stones of toddler music. You know, they. They can sell out Madison Square Garden 10 nights in a row. Like, the Wiggles are huge. They've been around since the early 90s. They've raised multiple generations of kids at this point. So you've got families now where the parents listen to the Wiggles and the kids are listening to the Wiggles.

[A]

Let's listen to the Wiggles.

[B]

Fruit salad.

[C]

Yummy, yummy fruit salad. Yummy, yummy fruit salad.

[D]

Yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy fruit salad.

[B]

Let's make some fruit.

[A]

Okay. All right. Yeah, we got the little ahaha in there. I just wonder, so I will confess. I made my mother take my son to see the Wiggles. Cause you didn't want to be fair. I framed it as a bonding experience. I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was. But I was a bit cynical.

[B]

I understand. But if you'd gone, I'm telling you right now, you would have had a great time. It's impossible to be in a bad mood at a Wiggles concert. Like, I dare you. Like, give it a shot.

[A]

But in the film, you do talk to some cynical parents.

[B]

Oh, sure. Yeah. I think that's the baseline.

[A]

So what did you hear?

[B]

Well, you know, we did some kind of man on the street interviews at a playground in Park Slope, and we heard a lot of like, oh, this stuff makes you want to blow my brains out. You know, it makes me crazy. It's so dumb. I wish they would listen to better music, or I wish they had better taste in music. And that's really, like, kind of the baseline from which we're starting the film. And we're trying to kind of like, build up from there, right? Like, let's just sort of start by admitting, you know, and as Anthony Wiggle says in the film, he's the founder of the Wiggle. You know, many.

[A]

Wait, is that really his last.

[B]

Well, no, of course not.

[A]

I was like, wait, hold on.

[B]

No, of course not. Anthony Wiggles says in the film, you know, most parents, they don't know whether to, like, you know, punch me in the face or give me a hug. Like, you know, on the one hand, it, like, makes their kids so happy, but on the other hand, it can be tough on the parents to have, like, you know, a song like fruit salad play 17 times in a row.

[A]

You know, or 17 bajillion times in a row.

[B]

And that's another part of the film we Try to get into the. Repetition is really important. Like, you know, for kids, like, that's what helps. Helps them, like, gain confidence. Like, to hear that song over and over again. It helps them to, like, own it and master it.

[A]

Well, because then you can sing it with confidence. Absolutely right. And also, I just saw something. I have no idea if there's truth to this, that watching something for adults, that watching a show, a television show, let's say, for that you have seen before and that you know is going to happen, can be emotionally regulating.

[B]

Absolutely is. There's no question. Yeah. And that's, by the way, that's art. It's repetition and surprise, repetition and surprise. So they're just doing what art is, you know, repetition and surprise.

[A]

What do you think the documentary shows us about the power of music?

[B]

Well, like I said earlier, I think it shows that music is just deeply human. It's so tied into who we are. Not everyone has a favorite painter or novelist, but really everyone has favorite music. Like, music is really intrinsic to who we are as human beings. And again, even infants know that. They know that before any of the other stuff we put onto it, before it becomes about taste and social groups and, you know, like all these other things that, you know, we put onto it. It's just deeply human. It bonds us together.

[A]

Last text I'll read for you here. Penny, prepare yourself. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. Danzane. Dan Zane is great.

[B]

We talked to Dan Zane. Unfortunately, he's not in the movie. But the movie was not an attempt to put everyone. We tried to put everyone in. We'd fail. But let me just say. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. Dan Zane. I agree.

[A]

Yeah. All right. The docum is happy and you know it. It was directed by acclaimed documentarian Penny Lane. We've been talking with Penny. The documentary itself appears on HBO and HBO Max on Christmas Day. Penny, thanks.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Now we're going to do something that a lot of people are going to hate us for.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Which is we're going to close out on Baby Shark.

[B]

No, that's good. Baby Shark's a good song. I will stand on this hill.

[A]

All right, let's do it.

[B]

Baby Shark. Baby. Hey, Fidelity.

[A]

What's it cost to invest with the Fidelity app?

[B]

Start with as little as $1 with.

[A]

No account fees or trade commissions on US stocks and ETFs. That's music to my ears. I can only talk. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss.

[B]

Zero account fees apply to retail brokerage accounts. Only sell order assessment fee. Not included.

[D]

A limited number of ETFs are subject.

[B]

To a transaction based service fee of 100. See full list of fidelity.com Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE, SIPC.

[A]

Hey girl, what's happen?

[B]

Is that your antiperspirant?

[A]

Uh, yeah. Let me see that can.

[B]

Aluminum butane. I cannot pronounce that. You have to switch to native deodorant.

[A]

Native simple formula has only clean ingredients.

[B]

It gives you effective 72 hour odor protection with no hydrocarbon carbon propellant. Wow, this smells heavenly clean effective 72 hour odor protection isn't a myth, it's native.