Summary of "Chasing Artistic Success in NYC in 'Lonely Crowds'"

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Stephanie Wambugu, author of Lonely Crowds
Episode Release Date: July 31, 2025

All Of It, a WNYC production hosted by Alison Stewart, delves into the intricate landscapes of culture and its creators. In the episode titled "Chasing Artistic Success in NYC in 'Lonely Crowds'," Stewart engages with Stephanie Wambugu to explore her debut novel, Lonely Crowds. The conversation offers a deep dive into the novel’s themes, character dynamics, and the personal inspirations that shaped Wambugu's storytelling.

Introduction to Lonely Crowds

Alison Stewart introduces Lonely Crowds as a narrative centered around the enduring friendship between Ruth and Maria. Both characters meet as children in Rhode Island, bonding over their shared experience of being the only two Black girls at their private Catholic school. This foundational friendship evolves as they transition into adulthood and venture into the competitive art scene of New York City.

Alison Stewart [00:09]: "A new novel follows two women on their journey through a lifetime of friendship."

Character Perspectives and Development

Wambugu explains that the novel is told from Ruth's perspective, offering a retrospective look at her and Maria's lives. Ruth is depicted as being in her late 30s or early 40s, working as a college painting professor. Her obsession with Maria becomes a central theme, especially as Maria's artistic career flourishes while Ruth's stalls.

Stephanie Wambugu [01:03]: "She's working as a college professor. She's teaching painting to students. And so it's looking back, it's like a retrospective glance on her childhood."

Origins of Ruth's Character

When asked about the inception of Ruth's character, Wambugu shares that Ruth's voice emerged organically as she began her graduate studies in New York City. Ruth felt almost real to Wambugu, prompting her to document Ruth's thoughts and experiences diligently.

Stephanie Wambugu [01:21]: "I was starting grad school and I just started to kind of be preoccupied by this woman's voice... she came sort of almost fully formed."

The Emergence of Maria

Initially intended as a minor character, Maria's role expanded as the dynamic between her and Ruth grew more complex. Wambugu describes Maria as a foil to Ruth, embodying qualities that Ruth is both drawn to and challenged by.

Stephanie Wambugu [02:12]: "As I wrote Ruth, the more Maria emerged as a character in contrast to her."

Exploring Obsession

A pivotal theme in Lonely Crowds is obsession. Wambugu likens Ruth's obsessive nature to the passionate drive of artists, blurring the lines between dedication and fixation. This obsession affects Ruth's ability to form other meaningful relationships, as she remains deeply entwined in Maria's life.

Stephanie Wambugu [03:34]: "I wanted to explore the parallels between a vocation, an artist having a vocation, and being obsessed with a person."

Family Dynamics and Personal Struggles

Ruth's family life significantly impacts her character. Her parents are portrayed as arguing frequently, leaving Ruth feeling peripheral despite being an only child. This lack of parental attention fosters her deep reliance on her friendship with Maria.

Stephanie Wambugu [07:20]: "There's so much of the scenes in her home where she's really just narrating the conversations between her parents and the attention is not really directed on her."

Influences Shaping the Narrative

Wambugu cites several literary figures who influenced her writing, including Saul Bellow, Gary Indiana, and Toni Morrison. She also references Tove Djilfossn's Copenhagen Trilogy as a parallel to her own storytelling approach.

Stephanie Wambugu [04:56]: "Gary Indiana... Toni Morrison... Tove Ditlofsson's Copenhagen trilogy."

Impact of Early Life on Maria

Maria's troubled childhood, marked by the loss of her parents and living with a bipolar aunt, shapes her adult demeanor. Wambugu portrays Maria as inherently callous and demanding, traits she developed as coping mechanisms for her unstable upbringing.

Stephanie Wambugu [13:55]: "She sees the world as a result of the way she was brought up as fundamentally unstable."

Critical Encounters and Relationship Tensions

A significant moment in the novel involves Maria reuniting with her estranged father and dragging Ruth along unannounced. Wambugu describes this meeting as fraught and emotionally charged, highlighting Ruth's role as an observer rather than an active participant.

Stephanie Wambugu [14:19]: "It's really just reporting what's happening... They are able to break down simultaneously."

Sexuality and Self-Discovery

The novel also navigates themes of sexuality, with Maria coming out as a lesbian before Ruth begins to understand her own sexual identity. However, Ruth's journey towards self-acceptance remains ambiguous throughout the narrative.

Stephanie Wambugu [15:17]: "It remains ambiguous throughout the book."

Excerpt from Lonely Crowds

Wambugu reads a passage that encapsulates Ruth's internal struggle during Maria's disappearance. The vivid description portrays the family's emotional disconnection and Ruth's contemplations on trauma and existence.

Stephanie Wambugu [07:53 - 12:47]: (Excerpt not reproduced here, but detailed in transcript)

Summer Reading Recommendations

Wambugu shares a curated list of five books for the summer reading challenge, reflecting her literary tastes and influences:

1. Classic: Sorrows of Young Werther by Goethe
   Reason: An exploration of obsessive, unrequited love.

   Stephanie Wambugu [15:57]: "It's about obsessive love, obsessive, unrequited love. So it felt fitting."

2. Novel Set in NYC: Horse Crazy by Gary Indiana
   Reason: A seminal work in the New York City art world, influential to Lonely Crowds.

   Stephanie Wambugu [16:20]: "It's an art world novel... very much inspirational for my book."

3. Recent Debut Novel: Great Expectations by Vincent Cunningham
   Reason: Its elegance and lyrical quality despite being a debut.

   Stephanie Wambugu [16:55]: "It's so well executed. It has really lyrical moments..."

4. Memoir/Biography: Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
   Reason: Its profound depiction of dehumanization and resilience.

   Stephanie Wambugu [17:32]: "I've been stripped of my humanity... incredible moments in the book."

5. Upcoming Novel: Flat Earth by Anika J. Levy
   Reason: Its humor and emotional balance make it timely and relevant.

   Stephanie Wambugu [18:17]: "It's very of the moment... balances intense emotionality with a light touch."

Advice for Aspiring Authors

Wambugu offers valuable guidance for writers embarking on their literary journeys:

• Read Extensively: Immerse yourself in diverse literature to hone your craft.

  Stephanie Wambugu [18:49]: "Read as much more than you write."

• Engage with Booksellers: Working in bookstores provides exposure to a vast array of books and literary discussions.

  Stephanie Wambugu [18:49]: "Spend time around booksellers and spend time with books."

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of Lonely Crowds, shedding light on the nuanced portrayal of friendship, obsession, and the pursuit of artistic success in New York City. Stephanie Wambugu's insights reveal a deep connection between her personal experiences and her fictional narrative, offering listeners a rich understanding of her debut novel's themes and inspirations. The discussion not only highlights the complexities of Ruth and Maria's relationship but also underscores the broader cultural contexts that shape their lives and careers.

Note: All quotes are accurately attributed with timestamps as provided in the transcript. Advertisements and non-content sections from the transcript have been excluded to maintain focus on the substantive discussion.