All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC)

Episode Title: Chronicling the Creation of Lilith Fair
Date: September 17, 2025
Main Guest: Allie Pankiw (Director, Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery, the Untold Story)
Theme: Revisiting and re-evaluating the significance, legacy, and untold history of Lilith Fair, the groundbreaking women-led music festival.

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart dives into the story of Lilith Fair through a conversation with Allie Pankiw, director of the new documentary Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery, the Untold Story (premiering September 21, 2025, on Hulu). The discussion revisits the festival’s massive cultural and industry impact, the barriers it broke for women in music, and how it has been remembered—or misremembered—over time. Listeners call in to share their own memories and reflections.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Why Lilith Fair Mattered

• Industry Bias: Alison introduces Lilith Fair as a response to deep-seated gender biases in the music industry of the 1990s—women artists weren’t booked together or played back-to-back on radio due to the myth of "box office poison" (00:08).
• Cultural Impact: Over three years, Lilith Fair featured leading female artists, played to audiences across 54+ cities, raised $10 million+ for women’s shelters and nonprofits, and inspired a generation (00:08–01:35).

2. The Documentary’s Perspective: ‘The Untold Story’

• Director’s Motivation: Allie Pankiw, too young to attend Lilith as a child, describes growing up with its artists as a "soundtrack" to her adolescence but laments the festival’s later trivialization in popular culture (02:19–03:13).
• Reframing Lilith Fair:
  • "It wasn't this small little shift... It was a massive financial success... was kind of, yeah, written out of the history book." — Allie Pankiw (03:20)
  • The documentary aims to counteract how young women’s interests from that era were dismissed as "frivolous" or less serious than men's (03:20–04:42).

3. Why ‘Lilith’? The Name & Its Symbolism

• Mythological Roots: Lilith was Adam’s first wife who refused subservience—paralleling how Lilith Fair rejected the industry’s constraints.
  • "When Sarah was looking for a name... it was a bit prophetic, because in the way that Lilith has been sort of written out of religious history books... so was [the festival], and its massive contribution... written out of the history book." — Allie Pankiw (05:32)
• Festival’s Spirit: Sarah McLachlan, like Lilith, chose her own path—"Like Lilith said, peace out, I'll do my own thing." — Alison Stewart (06:46)

4. Sarah McLachlan’s Industry Experience

• Canadian Perspective: Early sheltering from American industry norms allowed Sarah a unique vantage to challenge misogyny. Only after entering the US market did she face restrictive rules—such as not being allowed to tour with female openers (07:06–09:14).
• Personal Drive: She “just wanted to be surrounded by the artists she actually liked and wanted to be in community with... set it out with a very honest, personal, authentic, small want”—which had massive ripple effects (08:32).

5. Listener Stories: Memories & Impact

• Pink Glitter & Tour Culture: A makeup artist recalls Sarah’s tradition of putting pink glitter on artists backstage, a symbol of the festival’s playful camaraderie (09:22).
• Finding Community:
  • "It’s really hard to convey how bad the 90s were... misogyny was so out there... I loved being at Lilith Fair with all of these like wonderful women artists and the women fans." — Savik, caller (10:57)
• Safe Spaces: Many callers described Lilith Fair as their first experience of feeling safe and included at a concert, both as audience members and as musicians (17:21–19:13).
• Men’s Involvement: Listeners dispelled the myth that it was exclusive to women; men attended with partners, daughters, and sons, supporting women-led music and progressive values (20:27).
• Memorable Performances: Tracy Chapman’s solo performance and cross-pollination between artists (e.g., Chrissie Hynde inspiring Sheryl Crow) are repeatedly cited as highlights.

6. Mythmaking & Media Representation

• Relentless Misogyny: The festival and its artists were mocked by late-night television and pop culture, which reflected and reinforced the era’s misogyny (11:51).
  • "It really took me back to that time... going, oh my God, this was how I was taught how to look at myself as a young woman..." — Allie Pankiw (12:45)
• Need for Unlearning: Both the documentary and callers emphasize the importance of re-examining the narratives women were told about their interests, music, and value.

7. Behind the Scenes: Archival Treasures

• Unseen Footage: The film is built in part on a trove of never-before-seen archive footage from a documentary shot during the original Lilith Fair tours but never released, plus artists’ own scrapbooks and memorabilia (15:42–16:50).

8. Criticism and Growth: Diversity at Lilith Fair

• Initial Shortcomings: The festival was criticized for lack of diversity—aside from Tracy Chapman, the lineup was dominated by white artists (23:02).
• Response and Change:
  • "Sarah handled that with a lot of grace... They really put in a concerted effort to hold themselves to a higher standard in following years... They brought on Erykah Badu, Missy Elliott, and others." — Allie Pankiw (23:14)
• Openness to Critique: The team’s willingness to listen and respond—rather than get defensive—is contrasted with more common reactions today.

9. Lilith Fair’s Legacy in Music & Industry

• Tangible Effects:
  • Radio and festival programmers began booking more women; "There are literally radio show hosts... that say before Lilith Fair they didn't program two women back to back, and after Lilith Fair they did." — Allie Pankiw (24:42)
• Template for Modern Festivals: Lilith pioneered the now-standard festival “village” setup with multiple stages and markets (25:24).
• Ongoing Inspiration: Artists like Olivia Rodrigo cite the Lilith era as inspiration for their own songwriting and artistic approach (25:02).
• Culture Change: "I think festivals trying to be safer spaces... all blossomed from Lilith." — Allie Pankiw (25:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On dismissing women’s interests:
  • "Anything we liked as young women back then was frivolous or not to be taken as seriously as male interest." — Allie Pankiw (03:20)
• On industry gatekeeping:
  • "You cannot bring a female opener on your tour with you because we won’t be able to sell those tickets." — Paraphrased by Allie Pankiw (08:02)
• On the cross-pollination:
  • "There was so much cross-pollination among the artists... it seems like it was a great environment for them, which was just this amazing benefit for us." — Kevin, caller (22:26)
• On redefining festival culture:
  • "Lilith was the first festival to have like a village. So everything you see now, from like a Coachella... all blossomed from Lilith." — Allie Pankiw (25:24)
• On safe spaces:
  • "It was like the first place that people felt safe. Festivals and spaces in music were not safe for young women, and they still aren’t all the time." — Allie Pankiw (19:19)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:08 — Alison's introduction and Lilith Fair origins
• 02:13–03:13 — Allie Pankiw’s introduction and personal connection
• 05:32–06:46 — Origins of the 'Lilith' name and its prophetic symbolism
• 07:06–09:14 — Sarah McLachlan’s experiences in the music industry
• 09:22–12:45 — Listener stories highlighting community, pink glitter anecdote, and the festival’s emotional impact
• 15:42–16:50 — Assembling the documentary: unseen footage and artist archives
• 17:21–22:41 — Calls recounting performance highlights, inclusivity, and legacy
• 23:02–24:38 — Diversity critiques and how organizers responded
• 24:42–25:24 — Lilith Fair’s impact on industrial and festival norms

Takeaways

• Lilith Fair was a radical and joyful disruption of sexist music industry standards, fostering a legacy of inclusivity and inspiration for artists and audiences alike.
• The festival’s historical neglect and trivialization reflect the broader marginalization of women’s cultural contributions—a gap the new documentary seeks to address.
• While imperfect, Lilith Fair’s embrace of critique and its tangible, lasting effects on both cultural consciousness and industry practices are lauded.
• Memories and listener stories emphasize the importance of community, representation, and safe spaces—and the power of women creating their own narratives.

Closing Thought

As Alison Stewart notes in her introduction (00:08):
"Sarah McLachlan said, Enough of this nonsense and launched the Lilith Fair... It built community, inspired audiences, and impacted the music industry for years to come."

Allie Pankiw’s documentary and this episode invite listeners to reconsider and reclaim the significance of Lilith Fair—as musical revolution, cultural catalyst, and proof of what happens when women refuse to be written out of history.