Cillian Murphy's 'Steve'

Summary

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Podcast Summary: All Of It — Cillian Murphy’s 'Steve'

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Guest: Cillian Murphy, actor and producer
Episode Date: October 9, 2025
Film In Focus: Steve (now on Netflix)

Episode Overview

This episode of All Of It features an in-depth conversation between host Alison Stewart and Oscar-winning actor Cillian Murphy about his new film, Steve. Murphy discusses his dual role as actor and producer, the unique production process, working with young actors, and the film’s exploration of teachers, at-risk youth, and personal struggle. The conversation also touches on Murphy’s career, his creative approach, and the ambiguous ending of Steve.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fast-Tracked Production and Process

• Steve moved from book to script to shooting in about six months, a notably quick timeline.
  • [01:40] Cillian Murphy: “It was pretty quick.”
• Murphy valued the shorter shoot, especially given the emotionally intense nature of the character and his responsibilities as both actor and producer.
  • [01:53] Murphy: “It's very hard to sustain that, certainly for this character, that level of kind of charged anxiety and... I was also a producer... So a nice brief shoot was probably the best in this instance.”

2. Ken Loach-inspired Filmmaking

• Murphy utilized techniques from director Ken Loach, such as filming chronologically.
  • [02:24] Murphy: “We managed to shoot the film chronologically and sequentially. And that was massively beneficial... especially to the younger actors.”
• For certain key scenes, new actors were introduced with no prior rehearsal, heightening the authenticity and tension.
  • [02:57] Murphy: “[For the school-closing scene]…the first time they walk into the room is the first time we'd ever seen them…so the scene was incredibly charged…”

3. The Value of Chronological Shooting, Especially for Young Actors

• Chronological shooting allowed young actors to process the story’s emotional journey as their characters would.
  • [03:36] Murphy: “They're accumulating the information emotionally as they go along, as per the character... It's like life. You're gathering it in a linear fashion.”

4. Working Relationship with Director Tim Mealance

• Murphy praises his third collaboration with director Tim Mealance, emphasizing trust and creative safety.
  • [04:14] Murphy: “He's a magician, really. I'm…in awe of what he does…I'd work with him forever. We have a massive understanding and trust together.”
  • [05:11] Murphy: “You learn that through work and experience…He’s there to protect me…We have a shared taste…you feel safe.”
• On creative safety:
  • [05:40] Murphy: “Feeling safe to experiment, feeling safe to try things out, you know, to make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes are the portal to real creativity.”

5. Understanding Steve as a Character

• The story is intentionally focused on a single day, making Steve’s backstory largely implicit.
  • [06:15] Murphy: “Really what all you need to know... is what you receive on the screen. For me it wasn't about—it was more about reacting than acting.”
• Steve’s day is chaotic, reactive, and driven by the needs and crises around him.
  • [07:06] Murphy: “That's the way that his day unfolded…he's over-caffeinated…best way to do it was not to plan anything and just to be completely open…”

6. Teaching as Vocation and Sacrifice

• Murphy, with both parents as retired teachers, sees teaching—especially for troubled youth—as vocational and deeply rewarding for those invested.
  • [08:03] Murphy: “It's a vocational job…I think you have a drive in you to help people or to help children... That level of satisfaction keeps bringing people back to it."
• The sacrifices:
  • [09:14] Murphy: “He's probably not looking or caring for himself in any way…All the self care just gets abandoned, you know, so he's like, well, shaving is irrelevant.”

7. De-escalation and Empathy

• Steve’s character is naturally adept at de-escalating conflict.
  • [10:48] Murphy: “Some people have a nature like that…They’re diffusers.”
• Authenticity in scenes was achieved through physical and emotional experimentation, such as adding a moment where Steve is knocked over breaking up a fight.
  • [11:28] Murphy: “We worked that out in the blocking of the scene…keep experimenting with the scenes.”

8. Adolescence and Artistic Roots

• Murphy reflects on the solipsism of adolescence and how lack of support can be damaging.
  • [12:22] Murphy: “If you don't have any support system…it can turn inwards and become very problematic."
• He started acting at 20, being a musician earlier.
  • [13:06] Murphy: "No, I didn't start till I was 20, but I was playing music."

9. Collaboration with Young Actors and Tracey Ullman

• Murphy gains energy and inspiration from young actors’ commitment and potential.
  • [13:33] Murphy: “They give me a real shot in the arm…their commitment and their energy for it…is so natural to them.”
• On Tracey Ullman:
  • [14:33] Murphy: “She’s just an icon…and a brilliant dramatic actor…It was great to see her be so brilliant in this role.”
• Ullman’s character is Steve’s confidante—he confides more in her than even his wife.
  • [15:04] Murphy: “I think she's his most important confidante and friend in the world. I think he tells her more than he tells his wife.”

10. Addiction and Compartmentalization

• Steve hides addictions and personal issues through intense compartmentalization—a common aspect of addiction.
  • [15:26] Murphy: “Those people who have that way of…rationalizing these things…everything becomes justified.”

11. Relationship with Shai

• Steve and Shai are portrayed as “two sides of a coin”—sensitive, brilliant, but unable to connect at a crisis point.
  • [16:22] Murphy: “They're both really sensitive and brilliant people…but…events trigger them both into this kind of sort of breakdown.”

12. Valuing Each Child

• Steve is depicted as uniquely able to see the best in all the boys.
  • [17:30] Murphy: “It's just a type of person that is selfless, and I wish I had that…”

13. Leadership and Burnout

• Steve is a good leader due to his care and compassion.
  • [18:53] Stewart: "Do you think he's a good leader?"
  • [18:53] Murphy: "Yeah, I do, actually."
  • [18:57] Murphy: “He cares about people… he’s non-judgmental and he’s compassionate.”
• His exhaustion is attributed to unending responsibilities and lack of self-care.
  • [18:27] Murphy: "the school falling apart, trying to raise a family, trying to stay sober and clean…and not looking after his health..."

14. Institutional Bureaucracy as a Villain

• Steve is particularly triggered when the school’s closure is announced in a bureaucratic, dismissive manner.
  • [19:25] Murphy: “That represents the sort of bureaucracy... when people begin to see these institutions in terms of numbers and...profit...rather than human beings.”

15. Physicality and Self-Neglect

• Steve’s unkempt appearance symbolizes abandoned self-care.
  • [20:34] Murphy: “I just think that he doesn’t care about his appearance…everything gets left. All the self care just gets abandoned.”

16. Ambiguous Ending & Audience Interpretation

• The film ends ambiguously, inviting varied audience reactions.
  • [21:09] Murphy: “It’s meant to be ambiguous entirely and open to interpretation.”
• Murphy prefers not to provide his own take, believing “the audience finishes the story rather than the storytellers.”
  • [21:48] Murphy: “People see the film through the lens of their own life experiences... I really enjoy that in art…”

17. On Peaky Blinders and Script Quality

• Murphy discusses his enduring interest in Tommy Shelby and what draws him to projects: exceptional writing above all.
  • [22:56] Murphy: “The writing was always the draw…It’s rare to play a character over the course, like for 12 years…”
  • [23:42] Murphy: “Oh, yeah, yeah.” [on turning down a script with good names but bad writing]
• The script is the foundation, but sometimes—depending on “the extent of the damage”—it can be fixed.
  • [24:07] Murphy: “Well, it depends the extent of the damage, you know.”

18. What Should Audiences Take Away?

• Murphy stresses that his hope is for audiences to finish the film for themselves—art is a conversation.
  • [24:32] Murphy: “I care incredibly about it…the film isn’t finished until people see it…audiences finish the film for themselves and we don’t do it. So I think the less that I say about it, the better.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On artistic trust:
  • “You have to be in a safe environment to [experiment and make mistakes]. Sometimes mistakes are kind of portal to real Creativity, I think.” —Cillian Murphy [05:40]
• On vocation:
  • “I think it's a vocational job. I think you kind of need to do this thing and you have a drive in you to help people or to help children in this case.” —Cillian Murphy [08:03]
• On self-neglect:
  • "All the self care just gets abandoned, you know, so he's like, well, shaving is irrelevant." —Cillian Murphy [20:34]
• On audience interpretation:
  • “People see the film through the lens of their own life experiences… I really enjoy that in art where it's the audience finishes the story rather than the storytellers.” —Cillian Murphy [21:48]
• On leadership:
  • “He cares about people, he cares about his staff, and he really cares about the kids. And he's non-judgmental and he's compassionate.” —Cillian Murphy [18:57]
• On exhaustion:
  • When asked to describe himself in a few words, “very, very tired.” —Steve (character), as described by Stewart [18:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:30] — Murphy describes the accelerated production process
• [02:24] — Filming chronologically and its impact
• [03:36] — Benefit for young actors of linear shooting
• [04:14] — Relationship & trust with director Tim Mealance
• [05:40] — Safety, experimentation, and creativity in the filmmaking process
• [06:15–07:36] — On the film's structure and “reacting, not acting”
• [08:03–09:14] — Teaching as vocation and personal sacrifices
• [11:28] — On working out physicality in de-escalation scenes
• [14:33] — Working with Tracey Ullman, portrayal of friendship
• [15:26] — Addictive behaviors and compartmentalization
• [16:22]–[17:11] — Steve’s relationship with Shai and empathy for students
• [19:25] — Bureaucracy and school closure as emotional trigger
• [20:34] — Steve’s appearance as a symbol of self-neglect
• [21:09]–[21:48] — Ambiguity of ending discussed
• [22:56]–[24:07] — Peaky Blinders, the importance of writing, and project selection
• [24:32]–[25:11] — On audience takeaways and resonance

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Final Thoughts

The conversation is reflective, warm, and candid, revealing Murphy’s thoughtfulness about his craft and his investment in creating authentic, moving art. The episode provides insights not just into the making of Steve, but into broader questions of vocation, creativity, empathy, and the collaborative nature of storytelling.

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Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In the new film Steve, Oscar winning actor Cillian Murphy stars as a man having a bad day. Steve is the head teacher at a reform school for boys in Britain. His pupils are funny and talented, but also angry and explosive. Steve has to be everywhere at once, stopping fights and encouraging learning and telling his students they can't call him terrible names to his face. On this particular day, a journalist and camera crew have arrived to do a story about the school and its students. The kids are very excited to be on camera. Steve Lesso. Things go downhill fast when one of Steve's favorite students, a kid named Shai, has a terrible phone call with his mother. He starts to act out with the camera crew rolling. To make matters worse, Steve receives troubling news about the future of the school. And Steve himself is struggling with addiction. All of this swirls together in a toxic stew. And when a crisis with Shai arrives, Steve isn't fully prepared to handle it. Steve is out now on Netflix. I interviewed Cillian Murphy around the premiere of the film. Here's our conversation.

[B]

So, Kelly, and this all happened fairly quickly. It went from a book to a script to shooting. How long did that take?

[C]

I'd say about maybe six months. It was pretty quick.

[B]

What do you like or what's good about shooting in such a quick style?

[C]

Well, I always prefer a shorter shoot than a long shoot, particularly for a story like this. It's very hard to sustain that, certainly for this character, that level of kind of charged anxiety and kind of live it. And I was also a producer on this film, so I was kind of double jobbing. So a nice brief shoot was probably the best in this instance.

[B]

What did you learn about producing, making Steve that you maybe didn't know before?

[C]

Oh, gosh. Well, I kind of employed a few things or a few approaches on this film that I learned many years ago when I was working with Ken Loach. And one of which we managed to shoot the film chronologically and sequentially. And that was massively beneficial to us and to the younger actors and to the crew. And, you know, ultimately that's what you do if you could with every film. But just logistically it doesn't make any sense if you're moving around the place. But we were in one location, so we managed to do it. And then there's a few other tricks, like we the scene where this, the head of the trust comes to tell them the school is shutting down. We had never encountered those actors or Met them or rehearsed with them or seen them. And the first time they walk into the room is the first time we'd ever seen them. So the scene was incredibly charged and incredibly adrenalized when it happened. And there are the takes that we used in the film. And that's a kenlo tactic.

[B]

That's interesting that you shot chronologically. Why would that be useful to young actors?

[C]

Well, because, you know, you're not jumping around the schedule all the time, shooting the end first, you know, so they're accumulating the information emotionally as they go along, as per the character. And so it just say, if it's your first time making a film, you know, it's like life. You're gathering it in a linear fashion rather than a crazy, all over the place fashion.

[B]

And is that something that you learned to develop as an actor in film?

[C]

I mean, you can't do it normally, but I had the luxury of doing it once. So if any time I can, I'll try and do it.

[B]

Tell me about working with your director. You've worked with him before?

[C]

Yeah, this is our third piece of work together. He's a magician, really. I'm like, kind of in awe of what he does. We worked together on series three of Peaky Blinders. And, you know, it was a very piece, different piece of work because it's quite, you know, broad in some ways and it's very, kind of aggressive and loud and. Whereas this film had to be very, very sensitive and delicate. And I could see that he had all those skills. He's a real, real artist. And we had made this other film together called Small Things like these. And actors absolutely adore working with him. And.

[B]

What's his name again?

[C]

Tim Mealance.

[B]

I'm glad you said it.

[A]

Tim Mealance.

[C]

Yeah. And so, I mean, I'd work with him forever. He's just. We have a massive understanding and trust together, you know.

[B]

Why do you trust him? Why do you trust him? No one's.

[C]

Well, you learn that through work and experience, you know, and we know that he'll be there to protect me. He's not gonna kind of let me down and I'm not gonna let him down. And we. We have a shared taste, I think, and. And we really care about each other. And there for you, when you go to do the work, you feel safe.

[B]

That's interesting, feeling safe for an actor. What does that mean exactly?

[C]

Just feeling safe to experiment, feeling safe to try things out, you know, to make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes are kind of portal to real Creativity, I think. And so you have to be in a safe environment to do that.

[B]

We're talking to Cillian Murphy about his new film, Steve. He produced it as well. We get this glimpse into Steve's life at work. Not so much his backstory, not so much what's going on with him outside of the school. In your head, did you have a sense of Steve's backstory?

[C]

I mean, to a degree. Like the way the film is structured is that it's a day in the life. So it begins at like 8 o' clock in the morning on one day and it finishes at the same time the next day. And so really what all you need to know about the characters is what you receive on the screen. And so a lot of the younger actors had a whole kind of constellation of lives worked out for them. And then I talked an awful lot to the writer Max Porter about Steve. But ultimately for me it wasn't about, it was more about reacting than acting, if you know what I mean.

[B]

This, this particular job, because you had.

[C]

To react because, well, because like that's the way that his day unfolded was. Oh, I didn't realize that the, that the documentary crew were coming. Oh my God, there's a member of parliament coming and, and he's one of these people that's constantly not. Doesn't has a deficit of time, a deficit of sleep, a deficit of budget. You know, he's over caffeinated. So I felt that the best way to do it was not to plan anything and just to be completely open to what I received.

[B]

Really, when he realizes that the documentary crew is going to be there, the look in your eyes is just like, oh crap, I can't believe this happened.

[C]

Yeah, we've all been there, right?

[B]

Yeah. What do you think? Why do you think Steve has come to this job, this job being a teacher at a school for at risk boys?

[C]

Well, you know, both my parents are retired teachers now. They.

[B]

Oh, my mom was a teacher.

[C]

Well, there you go. And so many people I've met over the course of promoting this film have teachers or social workers as parents. And I think it's a vocational job. I think you kind of need to do this thing and you have a drive in you to help people or to help children in this case. And I feel like, you know, the kid that has been written off for the kid, that sort of the institution or society has abandoned kind of ideologically. If you can reach that kid and make him or her like feel seen or I think if you can do that, that that level of satisfaction keeps bringing people back to it. That's, you know, this is not being a teacher, but having. Growing up around teachers. This is what I kind of feel is the drive for the good ones.

[B]

Steve, he seems like someone who is truly dedicated to his work, to helping these kids. But what do you think he loses or sacrifices by giving so much to the children at the school?

[C]

I think that it's that old kind of adage that, you know, like, put on your own oxygen mask first before putting, you know, on others. And I think he's probably. He's probably not looking. Caring it for himself in any way. And, you know, so he's. He's minding all these kids and the school is falling apart and it's underfunded, and then he's going home, as you say, to these two little girls and his wife. And, you know, they're probably struggling to meet the mortgage and all these things. So I think the last thing he's thinking about is himself. And there's a lot of unresolved things that he's carrying around with that become clear over the course of the film.

[B]

What does he want for the boys at the school?

[C]

I think he just. I think he's working day to day. I don't think he really has an overarching kind of ambition. I think he wants them to be okay today and then okay tomorrow, and then. And then ultimately I think he wants them to feel like they are valued and that they are valued in the school and then hopefully valued by society, because a lot of them would have. I think there's a sort of a, you know, a generational shame or whatever that's passed down or they've not been looked after or there hasn't been. There's been absent parents or whatever. So just to feel valued.

[B]

I think he's very good at de escalation.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Why do you think he's so good at de escalation?

[C]

Again, I think it's a set of the way some people have a nature like that. They're just sort of. They don't have that sort of sense of aggression or kind of. They don't react in that way. And they are diffusers, you know, I.

[B]

Always wonder about those people because they're so calm in a moment of which could easily turn, you know, and there are moments in the film where it could easily turn. How did you work with that dynamic? Is it in the script? Is it the director?

[C]

Yeah, it's very much working with Tim, the director, and with Max, the writer. And kind of pushing it and pushing it and pushing it physically. And like, you know, that first fight with the boys that he intervenes in, like we added the bit that he actually gets knocked down and knocked over. That wasn't, you know, that wasn't part of it. But we worked that out in the blocking of the scene. So you kind of keep turning it up to the point where it's not just breaking the fight up, but in fact he's getting knocked down, but he manages to hold it together and stuff like that. You know, just keep, to keep experimenting with the, with the scenes.

[B]

Did you tap into anything personally when you were in those scenes? I mean, were you like that as a teenager? Were you ever like that as a young man where you just thought, the world isn't going to understand me. I don't want to deal with it, I'm walking away.

[C]

Well, I think that's the condition of adolescence really, isn't it? I mean, a lot of the world is. You are the most important thing in the whole world and that is what people. It's a very sort of solipsistic kind of existence, as it should be. You're the most important thing that's created. But then if you don't have any support system or outlet or anyone to talk to, it can turn inwards and become very problematic. So I guess I had all of that. But luckily I had a very stable family and you know, I was very lucky. So you can see how it couldn't go anyway. Really.

[B]

Was acting ever a part of that when you were young?

[C]

No, I didn't start Till I was 20, but I was playing music. I was playing a lot of music.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What did you play?

[C]

I was just playing in bands for a long time. Playing. Yeah.

[B]

Any names that we would.

[C]

Plenty, plenty. You don't need to know.

[B]

I worked at MTV for a very long time. Since I was asking, I was curious.

[C]

We never ever got anywhere near mtv.

[B]

So what was it like to work with so many young actors on a set?

[C]

I mean, they're amazing. They, they give me a real shot in the arm, you know, their commitment and their energy for it and their dedication. That's something you try to sustain over a 30 year career, you know. But those guys have it in such. It's so natural to them and they're, they're so committed. So I kind of thrived off their energy, you know.

[B]

What did you get out of working with young, young, young actors?

[C]

I just think it's the, yeah, just the, their life, the life that they have and that sense of potential that kind of gets eroded and as you get older, I suppose.

[B]

I love that Tracey Ullman was in this.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

And it was interesting watching a couple of interviews that you've done about the film. She makes you smile every time she talks about her character, which isn't a particularly comical character. No, not at all. What did you like about working with Tracey Ullman?

[C]

I mean, she's just an icon, and she's just also a beautiful human being. She's a really caring, kind, soulful person who happens to be hilariously funny, but is a brilliant dramatic actor and just doesn't get to kind of show that off much. And so it was great to see her be so brilliant in this role. In this role, which is a very demanding role.

[B]

What was the relationship between your character and her character?

[C]

I think she's his most important confidante and friend in the world. I think he tells her more than he tells his wife. And everything, you know, about work, I think he compartmentalizes everything.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

I think that's the only way he can survive, you know?

[B]

Is that where the addiction comes in?

[C]

Yeah, I think he compartmentalizes that as well. And, like, it's all very. Those people who have that sort of way of saying or rationalizing these things in an intimate, you know, insanely saying, it's okay for me to hide drugs in the laundry room, to hide whiskey in the basement. That's. That's totally.

[B]

It makes sense.

[C]

It makes sense. Yeah. And that's it. And then it's okay for me to, like, not tell my wife what's just happened to work, or it's okay for me to not tell, you know, Amanda that I'm relapsing and all these things. You know what I mean? It's just a very, very. That's the kind of tricky world of addiction, you know, everything becomes justified. I think.

[B]

There'S a boy at the school named Shai, which is what the book is based on.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What is his relationship? What's Steve's relationship with Shai?

[C]

I mean, I think they're like two sides of a coin, really. They're both really sensitive and brilliant people and very open people. But on this particular date, you know, events trigger them both into this kind of sort of breakdown, and they're sort of circling around each other, and they both really care for each other, but they can't reach each other. And their relationship starts off at the beginning of the day, and, you know, things are going all right, and then Events. Events take place that fracture that relationship in a terrible way. And. And it's very. It's kind of in the book. It's heartbreaking, and I hope in the film it touches people too.

[B]

What is it about Shai that really touches Steve?

[C]

Oh, I think he sees his. His talent and his humor and, you know, his passion for music and. But like you said, I think he sees it in all those kids. I think he sees the best in people. He's not one of those people.

[B]

You know, it's interesting because he just describes each boy with such. Describing their charm and what they're good at that people would not necessarily agree with it, maybe when they first meet young men. How does he find that in people? What is it about Steve that he finds sort of the. In all of these boys?

[C]

I really don't know the answer to that. I think they're just. I think it's just a type of person that is selfless, and I wish I had that. You know, it's like, it's an amazing.

[B]

Trait when Steve sits down with this documentary crew that shows up and he thinks, oh, gee, I have to deal with these people as well. And they ask him to describe himself in a few words. He says, very, very tired.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What is making him so exhausted?

[C]

I think it's everything that I just described. You know, the school falling apart, trying to raise a family, you know, trying to stay sober and clean and try to hide all of these things. Kind of try and compartmentalize all of these things. Not looking after his health. Yeah, that's, I think, the sum of it.

[B]

Do you think he's a good leader? Steve's a good leader?

[C]

Yeah, I do, actually. Yeah.

[B]

What makes him a good leader?

[C]

I don't know. Because he cares about people, he cares about his staff, and he really cares about the kids. And he's non judgmental and he's compassionate.

[B]

The one thing that does trigger him is when it is announced the school is going to be closed.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's also done in a real sort of cheesy way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Kind of a gross way.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Why does that trigger him out of almost everything we see that day?

[C]

Because I guess that represents the sort of bureaucracy and, you know, when people begin to see these sort of institutions in terms of numbers and figures and profit and loss rather than human beings, and they look at these children as statistics and problems rather than human beings, and he's confronted by these two people. And I think all his commitment and dedication over the years has just been, you know, Eroded by someone in an office and he just can't take it.

[B]

Your beard looked like you hadn't shaven in several days.

[C]

Yeah, it's not a very attractive beard.

[B]

It's interesting though, when you get into a character, when you get into his physicality. What was it about having a beard? What was it about wearing clothes that were a little bit too big that helped you get into character?

[C]

I just think that he doesn't care about his appearance. He's kind of doesn't. Doesn't care about any of that stuff. I think that in his youth he may have had aspirations to be like, I don't know, a writer or something like that. And, you know, but just again, no time, everything gets left. All the self care just gets abandoned, you know, so he's like, well, shaving is irrelevant.

[B]

You know, it's interesting because I think we have different opinions about what the end of the movie might have meant. Which is fine because it's good. People have different opinions about art.

[C]

Yeah. I think it's not meant to be in any way prescriptive. It's meant to be ambiguous entirely and open to interpretation.

[B]

You know, I said that he goes home. I'm not giving much away. He goes home and has sort of a normal life after this really terrible day. He's had and had to deal with so much, and I don't want to give that part away. And there's a little pink bedroom and his little girls are there and his wife is really lovely to him. And I thought that was. Oh, we've just seen him in one circumstance. He's got a whole other life we have to deal with too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What did you think happened?

[C]

I don't want to say because I don't. You know, that's just my interpretation. And people see the film through the lens of their own life experiences. And, you know, I have a friend and she has daughters and she saw the movie and she said, he's got daughters. I mean, he's gonna be there for his daughters. And other people might have different opinions. So I really enjoy that in art where it's the audience finishes the story rather than the storytellers.

[B]

Yeah. I thought daughters was interesting. And they're cute daughters and they're sweet.

[C]

Yeah. They're not like kind of big men charging around, you know, half formed men. Yeah. So, yeah, he's raising girls when he's minding boys.

[B]

I want to ask about Peaky Blinders before you have to go. The new film is set premiere next year.

[C]

Yeah, next year.

[B]

The Immortal Man. It's what it's called.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

All right. What keeps you interested in playing that one character after all these years?

[C]

The writing. Yeah, the writing was always the draw because it was exceptional writing. And I'm always attracted to good writing. And it's, you know, rare to play a character over the course, like for 12 years, which was a quarter of my life. And so you get to age with that character and kind of. You never get to do that. Normally you play characters at that point in your life at that time, whereas this, I got to do it for such a long time. So that adds all sorts of sort of. You can go to places you never normally would, really.

[B]

You don't have to name names. But have you just turned down a script because the writing wasn't good?

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

You just. It could have had all the names attached to it. But this, you were like, no, no, this writing is not for me. This is not a good piece of writing.

[C]

Yeah, but I mean, it's generally a combination of elements. It's not just the writings, the directing, but the foundation of every film is the script. You can't. If the script is shaky, the house is going to fall down. Ultimately, you know, can it.

[B]

Can a script be fixed or no?

[C]

Well, it depends the extent of the damage, you know.

[B]

What do you mean?

[C]

You mean, like, how much. How extensive the fix is? I suppose.

[B]

I was gonna. My last question. I don't think it's gonna work because I was gonna ask you what you hope audiences take away from Steve. But you don't. You really. It's not that you don't care, it's that you don't wanna tell us what you take away.

[C]

No, I care. I care incredibly about it.

[B]

They see it.

[C]

Yeah. And the responses we've been having are so genuine and so, like, profound. And I'm not saying that just for the sake saying it like, you know, people have been writing to us and I've had, like, really, really, really long, emotional conversations with people about it. But that's what. That's what I mean, that the film isn't finished until people see it. And the people, the audiences finish the film for themselves and we don't do it. So I think the less that I say about it, the better.

[A]

That was my conversation with actor Cillian Murphy. He produced and stars in the new movie Steve. The film is out now on Netflix.

[D]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI and to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.