Comedian Jordan Carlos Helps Straight Guys Get Marriage Right

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: All Of It

Host: Alison Stewart (WNYC)
Episode: Comedian Jordan Carlos Helps Straight Guys Get Marriage Right
Date: February 13, 2026
Guest: Jordan Carlos — comedian and author of Chore Play: The Marriage Saving Magic of Getting Your Head Out of Your Ass

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Episode Overview

This episode revolves around comedian Jordan Carlos’s new book, Chore Play, which combines humor, candor, and practical advice to address the often invisible labor in marriage—especially for straight men. Jordan openly discusses his own journey toward becoming a more equitable partner at home, how invisible and emotional labor can strain relationships, and why this topic is crucial for saving marriages. Listeners call in to share their own experiences, creating a lively, honest, and relatable conversation about household dynamics, gender expectations, and personal growth.

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Key Points & Insights

1. Inspiration for "Chore Play" and the Importance of the Title

• The term “chore play” originated from a family joke:
  • “The title just came from something my mom would say that my dad was doing...get caught working...she was like, it’s obviously chore play.” — Jordan Carlos [02:49]
• The book is rooted in Carlos's firsthand struggles to share labor in his own marriage.

2. Recognizing the Problems in His Own Marriage

• Carlos admits he was expecting to be "mothered" by his wife and didn’t fully grow up until forced to reconsider his role as a partner:
  • “I was looking for someone to mother me...I didn't ever really grow up when I should have grown up. And so…someone to clean up after me…so I could just go be an artist.” — Jordan Carlos [04:12]
• He candidly describes justifying his messiness:
  • “It’s my mess and I understand it has an internal logic that maybe you don’t get.” — Jordan Carlos [06:06]
• Noted the escalation of these issues after kids and COVID-19, when his wife was shouldering the “mental load.”

3. On Gender, Socialization, and the ‘Invisible Labor’

• Carlos acknowledges how men often default to waiting to be told what to do rather than acting proactively:
  • “There’s these guys...waiting to be told to do something...rather than having the executive function to just do it themselves.” — Jordan Carlos [08:26]
• He describes the invisible labor women do—anticipating needs, planning ahead—as often unnoticed:
  • “It’s even more than that. It’s knowing that my wife’s two steps ahead of me…all that extra work that she puts into that…” — Listener Michael [10:57]
  • “That’s invisible labor. I’m so happy to mansplain invisible labor here on all of it…” — Jordan Carlos [11:35]

4. Modeling Behavior for Children

• Carlos stresses children learn by watching their parents, sharing that his own messiness set a bad example:
  • “My kids know full well that I’m the messy one…they felt that they didn’t need to clean up after themselves, that someone would come along, mommy, like a Roomba, and like clean it all up.” — Jordan Carlos [14:00]

5. Weaponized Incompetence

• The concept is explained as pretending to be incapable to avoid chores:
  • “Weaponized incompetence...we use the stereotype of being useless around the house as a way of getting out of work…It absolves us of doing any work.” — Jordan Carlos [21:07]
• The cultural aspect is referenced, including media portrayals (e.g., Mr. Mom).

6. Rewiring Habits & Practical Tips

• Carlos discusses making incremental changes, starting small (like making morning coffee):
  • “It started with making coffee in the morning for my wife...one thing that would put a smile on her face or just like, one thing to take a task off her plate.” — Jordan Carlos [27:20]
• The “yes, and” strategy from comedy helped him figure out “what else” he could do.
• Over time, adopting routines (such as waking up earlier) led to real change.

7. Listener Experiences and Calls

• Kristen from Pleasantville: Her husband does everything at home—a dynamic that leaves her feeling guilty, with Carlos suggesting small but meaningful efforts such as changing toilet paper rolls [16:48].
• Naboo from The Bronx: After his wife died, he finally grasped the full extent of household management and the emotional cost of not being considerate earlier [18:03].
• Deb from Park Ridge: Discussed ‘emotional labor’ and the lasting impact of gendered roles in emotional and household tasks, sharing an anecdote about her son demanding laundry service like a “B&B” [19:07].
• Jacob: Explained how he and his higher-earning wife divide “provider” roles, with him taking great pride in managing the home and caring for their child [25:11].
• Joanna from Brooklyn: Highlighted how women often bear the brunt of maintaining social relationships and parent group communications, which is also a burden of emotional labor [26:05].
• Jennifer from Fairfield: Shared how a direct conversation—refusing to cook during pregnancy—led her husband to discover a new talent (cooking), transforming their household balance [29:06].

8. Personal Transformation and Relationship Outcomes

• Carlos’s "aha moment" came when his son recognized Dad’s efforts at home:
  • “My son said, ‘No, we have plenty. They're all downstairs. Daddy got the paper towels. Daddy always gets all the stuff.’ That was...it clicked.” — Jordan Carlos [30:16]
• He underlines the importance of small, continuous steps towards sharing the load.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On The Book’s Purpose:
  “We’ve lost so many good men...they weren’t splitting up over anything dramatic...the partnership had broken down.” — Jordan Carlos [08:26]
• Socialization Makes Things Invisible:
  “It’s not the shark sometimes, it’s the water that you’re in...things are set up for a life of ease, to be a man, a straight man.” — Jordan Carlos [12:44]
• Weaponized Incompetence:
  “We kind of, like, take in wholesale...myths, and that way, it absolves us of doing any work.” — Jordan Carlos [21:07]
• On Making Change Stick:
  “I cannot do radical change, but I can do incremental...wow, what a tectonic shift.” — Jordan Carlos [27:20]
• When His Son Noticed:
  “Daddy got the paper towels. Daddy always gets all the stuff...that was like, it made me know that I had a role.” — Jordan Carlos [30:16]

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Highlighted Timestamps

• 02:49 — Where the term “chore play” comes from
• 04:12 — Carlos on seeking a “mother” in his marriage
• 06:06 — Rationalizing messiness and low standards
• 08:26 — Why the book targets men in heterosexual relationships
• 10:57 — Listener Michael outlines the challenge of “anticipating needs”
• 11:35 — Explaining invisible labor
• 14:00 — On modeling behavior for children
• 16:48 — Reversal of roles (Kristen and her husband)
• 18:03 — Naboo on learning after loss
• 19:07 — Emotional labor and humorous family memories
• 21:07 — Weaponized incompetence explained
• 27:20 — Carlos begins to step up with incremental change
• 30:16 — The kid's recognition; evidence of transformation

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Tone & Approach

The episode is sincere, vulnerable, and genuinely funny, reflecting the tone of Carlos’s book and comedic style. Alison Stewart’s interviewing is warm and insightful, prompting stories, solutions, and self-reflection for listeners and callers alike.

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Final Thoughts

Chore Play and this episode both deliver a compassionate, honest message about the necessity for men—especially in straight marriages—to recognize and share invisible and emotional labor. Carlos’s openness, paired with practical advice and listener stories, underlines that even small, consistent efforts can radically shift household dynamics and strengthen relationships. The episode is a must-listen for couples looking to recalibrate partnership, lighten the mental load, and, as Carlos says, “get your head out of your ass.”

Transcript

[A]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here on today's show. Leah Koch is the owner of the Ripped Bodice Bookstore and she'll join us to talk about romance novels. Chef and psychologist Helen Goh is here to talk about her debut cookbook, which is called Baking and the Meaning of Life.

[B]

Life.

[A]

And we'll hear some New Orleans jazz live in our studio with musician Julie Banko and her new album. It's called Euphonic Gumbo. That's the plan. So let's get this started with a book called Chore Play, the marriage saving magic of getting your head out of your ass. After more than a decade together, comedian Jordan Carlos realized his marriage might be in jeopardy. Part of the problem, Jordan realized he wasn't pulling his weight around the house as a partner or as a dad. Jordan was forced to recognize the invisible labor his wife was doing and take on some of those responsibilities. Now he's hoping to help other men with his brand new book, Chore Play. The marriage saving magic of getting your head out of your ass is equal parts heartfelt, honest and hilarious. In it, Jordan writes, arguably speaking, there is a 75% chance that what ends a marriage may very well be that pile of clothes that we leave at the foot of our bed despite our person's repeated please put them in the way or the door. We never get around to fixing the trash. We never take out the leaves. We never rake such little things. But on a long enough timeline, they will push marriages. Read my marriage to the brink. Chore Play contains real tips, advice and wisdom and of course, lots of jokes. And joining us now in studio is Jordan Carlos. It is nice to see you again.

[B]

Oh, great to be here. Thank you so much for having me on this Freaky Friday. Appreciate it.

[A]

Listeners, we want to hear from you. How have you or your partner worked out splitting up the household chores and parenting duties? Did it ever cause a problem in your relationship? And how did you solve it? Women, this one's for you. Have you ever felt like your partner didn't understand all the work you do around the house? This is a safe space. Space you are free to call in. Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. It's a judgment free zone. Give us a call. So first of all, tell us where the title came from.

[B]

The title just came from something my mom would say that my dad was doing. So my dad, like, Ben Franklin said, get caught working, right? And so my dad would do that. Like, if it was like my mom was coming home from work, he was like, okay, if I. If I sweep up the kitchen floor, if she catches me doing it, you know, I'm gonna get points. Or washing the dishes. And you'd be like, oh. He'd be like, oh, my gosh. Oh, my God, look at me. Look at me washing these windows. My mom would be like that. It's obviously chore play. So that's where the term comes from. Always steal from the best from mama. Thank you, Mom.

[A]

Did you keep it in the back of your head?

[B]

Oh, I can't. Always in the forefront in the back. I have to fully. Yeah.

[A]

Well, how did your wife. First of all, before we get into the meat of the book, how did your wife feel about you writing this book?

[B]

She was good with. She definitely got to hear it when we had the big launch party this Tuesday. And I finally. I mean, I think I finally got her respect. It's now an okay thing. So once. Once that happened, she was like, thumbs up.

[A]

You know, you're really honest in the book about the fact that you and your wife were having really difficult marital issues. You were, like, sort of headed towards the D word a little bit. Looking back on it now, what do you think was the root of that hardship?

[B]

The root of the hardship is I only have a few minutes here. So the root of the hardship. I'm just kidding. The root of the hardship was that I was looking for someone to mother me. Right. And so that is the problem. I didn't ever really grow up when I should have grown up. And so as a result, I was looking for someone to clean up after me, someone to. Someone to, you know, cook for me a little bit. All these things. Take out the trash and remember the big things so I could just go be an artist. And I think that that was. That was problem number one. That was problem number one.

[A]

It's sort of interesting, that whole idea of, like, I'm an artiste. I am making money. I shouldn't have to do these things. There's a little bit of that in there.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, is it. I mean, that just felt, like, so odious to me. It felt like I was being punished if I had to make up the bed or, like, clean up my side of the room or something like that. So that just got worse and worse because kids came into the picture, pets came into the picture, and she was really carrying the mental load. And then Covid happened, right? So if I was busy on set doing gigs, out in the world doing stand up comedy, then I had an excuse for not helping out around the house. But then when Covid happened and everything shut down, then I was just like another child, really. I was kind of redundant in a way, and I was not helping. I didn't know where anything was in the house. I was just like, useless. There's so many guys like me. And that's what this book is really for, is guys that are well meaning, but tripping over the very low bar that has been set somehow, some way.

[A]

When you think back to those times and you think about something you said to your wife, can you share one of those? One of those moments?

[B]

Oh, something I said? Well, I said, like with my clothes, the piles, I was like, well, you know, I mean, things all end up on the floor. Systems always fall apart, so what's the big deal? You know, Ooh, isn't that good? Isn't that sweet? Or just like, I'd be like, it's my. I was like, it's my mess and I understand it has an internal logic that maybe you don't get. And so that. And then I'd be like, well, you have a standard of cleanliness that no one can meet. How about that? And so, yeah, that's what those are.

[A]

Just Em's fighting words.

[B]

The gaslight trio right there. Oh, it works so well. I mean, listen, what's cute in your 20s is not cute in your 40s. And after a while, like a very educated, independent woman, like, my wife was like, I need to talk to the manager, you know, so like there was like a kind of inventory that needed to take place there, you know, you're.

[A]

Making me think of how I should teach my son.

[B]

Yes, yes, you should teach your son. Yes.

[A]

I was reading the book last night and I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't do the laundry twice a week. Maybe he should do it one day a week.

[B]

Now he's 17.

[A]

That's a different way of raising a boy.

[B]

Absolutely. We have to kind of like have a break with our mother and grow up a bit. Paging Dr. Freud. And I feel like little things like that, wherein he's, you know, self contained and able to take his clothes downstairs and self reliant. It's really important because if he doesn't, then he's just going to like. What I did was I found somebody just to replace my mom and thank you, therapist, you know, so that we want to avoid that. We really want to avoid that. And Alice and Stewart, so wise. Yes. Get your son to separate those colors and whites and just, you know, or just throw it all in wash a cold.

[C]

It'll be fine.

[B]

It'll be fine. Yeah.

[A]

My guest is comedian Jordan Carlos. We're talking about his brand new book Chore play, the marriage saving magic of getting your head out of your ass. It's out now, listeners, we want to hear from you. How have you and your partner worked at splitting out the household chores? Did you ever, did it ever cause a problem in your relationship and how did you solve it? 2124-3396-9221-2433-WNYC. This is a judgment free zone, by the way. So Jordan, you wrote this book, it's really geared towards men and heterosexual relationships. Why did you want to target that particular audience?

[B]

We've lost so many good men, Allison. So many good men. I just think that because, you know, you speak from your experience, there were a number of men in like the mom and dad's group in our neighborhood that were splitting up and they weren't splitting up over anything like dramatic. It was almost like a kind of a what I would call a meh m e h situation. And as such, I think the partnership had kind of broken down. Right. I remember there was this one dad who will remain nameless who needed the babysitter there even when he was there with the kids. So it's like what's, what's happening here? You know, come on, bud, you gotta, you gotta chip in. And that's what I've written it for is like there's a lot of well meaning guys who may be open minded in the streets, but not in the sheets, so to speak, and need to pick up the slack. And they really, they're well meaning. They. There's these guys that I'm describing are often waiting to be told to something, to do something. They're happy to go take out the trash, they're happy to walk the dog, they're happy to wash the dishes if being told to do so rather than having the executive function to just do it themselves. So it's like putting yourself on that footing of more of an active or proactive footing I think can really help. And to me it doesn't have to be a balance. I don't think it has to be a radical rearrangement. I'm trying to reach those people too, to tell them that if they did something that would be a huge, some one Little thing.

[A]

You note that the second decade of marriage tends to be harder on people.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Why do you think that is?

[B]

Because I think the first decade, it's like a rocket going into space. You have that wonderful thrust, but those cool 2 boosters fall off. And I think. And you have to find a new operating system because you often slip into the sandwich, period, which is you're taking care of your parents at some point, or kids come into the picture. Maybe they're. You have a miscarriage. But things will happen where you'll be put to the test, you know, for better or for worse. And because of that, I think the partnership needs to be looked at, reevalued and rearranged to kind of like, meet those new conditions.

[A]

Let's talk to Michael, who's calling in from Westchester. Hey, Michael, thanks for taking the time to call. All of it.

[C]

Yes, thank you so much for having me on. I'm a big fan of the show, so I just wanted to mention something that, you know, frankly, it came to me the other day. One of the things that I haven't been in the past particularly good at is anticipating the needs of the household. So it's, yes, picking up the socks off the floor and, you know, wiping the counter, but it's even more than that. It's knowing that my wife's two steps ahead of me. She's planning what the next meal will be. She's figuring out when my kid needs new sneakers. It's all that extra work that she puts into that that I realized I have to up my game a bit.

[A]

Thank you for calling in. Thank you for recognizing that. You call that the invisible labor.

[B]

Yes, that's invisible labor. And I'm so happy to mansplain invisible labor here on all of it, but this book is geared towards guys who might not have heard of that before.

[A]

Some people haven't heard of it before.

[B]

Yeah, don't get mad at us. It's invisible. Okay. So, yes, that is. Thank you, Michael, for being vulnerable like that and saying that. Yes. There are so many things that are put on traditionally onto a woman's shoulders. I saw it with my own mother, who was a professor and also ran the household. So I feel like it's just about giving a crap about these things. You have to give a crap. You have to give a G wiz. And the Internet is so great. It's never been a better time to be a slob. Alison, like, all this information's online. What your teacher's names are just. Or you can go down the hall, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding to your kid's closet. Check the size of their shoes. You know, I mean, the UK one is always bigger or smaller. I don't know, you know, US versus UK sizes on the shoes. But catch up, you know, look around, scout around. It could take like 10 minutes to know these things and to find out the names of like their doctors. That happened to me with my kid's dentist.

[A]

Like, what happened?

[B]

Well, I, I called the dentist. Just. I was like, all right, this is a new me. This is my inflection point. So I call up the dentist and I'm like, I just want to check on when my kids are supposed to get their teeth cleaned again. And then the receptionist, this is South Brooklyn, she was like, the mother already knows. And I was like, okay, well, well, I'm the father. And then she's like, clearly, you're divorced. I was like, we're not, we're not. We're not divorced. And she's like, only divorced fathers do that. She was also a sock puppet, but she was cool. Anyway. Anyway, that, that's, that's what happened, you know, like it's. And you have to realize it's not the shark sometimes, it's the water that you're in and that you have to, you have to accommodate for that. You have to know that things are set up for a life of ease, to be a man, a straight man. Things are kind of. They accommodate you. Again, more truth bombs being dropped by this man about the misogynist construct in society. But I think it takes an awakening and it takes a conversation between men. On the topic.

[A]

This is an interesting text. It says you were describing my son in law. As a result, my daughter's home is ultra messy and dirty. She doesn't seem to care. But it sets a very bad example for my two granddaughters.

[B]

Absolutely. Because my kids know full well that I'm the messy one. They would call me messy all the time. Like, daddy's rumple, Daddy's messy. Look at daddy. What a slob, you know? So they felt that they didn't need to clean up after themselves, that someone would come along, mommy, like a Roomba and like clean it all up. But that's. You can't be out here doing that because you're setting that. You're modeling that for your kids and it's not good. That's what was modeled for me as well.

[A]

We are talking to Jordan Carlos about his new book, Chore Play Listeners. We want to hear from you. How are you have. How have you and your partners worked splitting household chores. Did it ever cause a problem in your relationship? How did you solve it? Our phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. After the break, we'll talk about weaponized incompetence. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Jordan Carlos. We're talking about his new book chore play the marriage saving magic of getting your head out of your ass. And you made a remark that we're on the edge of Valentine's Day.

[B]

Yes, it is the edge of Valentine's Day. I think this is the perfect gift. Sorry to plug for any guy out there who needs a couple of like low hanging fruit hacks, you know, we all do. I just assembled them because I was like, no one could do worse than I did and still recover. And so that's that. It's Valentine's Day, guys. There's nothing more romantic than cleaning the bathroom for your. Don't worry about the flowers, okay? Just. Or maybe. Yeah, Actually, you know what? Bathroom and then flowers. Right. Flowers. Yeah, I think is a nice touch. It's a good touch.

[A]

It's a good way.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But definitely bust those corners. Get the bathroom. Get the soap scum off the shower head.

[A]

Let's talk to Kristen from Pleasantville. Hi, Kristen. Thanks for taking the time to call. All of it.

[C]

Oh, thank you so much for putting me on. So I'm in like an opposite situation. My husband Ashley does everything for the house. He does the laundry. He does cooks dinner and does the dishes and keep that man. Yeah. 25 years. Celebrating Valentine's Day tomorrow. So he's a keeper. But I feel guilty a lot about it. You know, I'm also an artist, and I think maybe my brain just. I can't like, wrap my head around doing things around the house.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But he really keeps everything in line. Fridays he does a vacuum and cleanup. Surface cleanup.

[B]

So well trained.

[C]

Every Friday, he's. Yeah, he's got it. He's got it down. And he is like my housewife.

[A]

Is there anything that Kristen can do that would surprise her husband? He does all the work.

[B]

I think there's plenty you can do, Kristen. So I always say that the devil's in the levels. So you just have to go around. It'll take you five minutes to get around your house. I mean, listen, maybe you have a huge house. I have no idea. An east wing and a west wing. But check the TP levels. Right. Check your toilet paper, paper towel levels, juice levels, milk levels, olive oil and butter. You can just change those rolls in the TP rolls. And he will be. He might faint. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He might keel over and think that the toilet paper fairy came for a visit, you know, so. So do that. Kristen. I know it sounds so lame, but it's true.

[A]

Let's talk to Naboo in the bot in the Bronx. Hey, thanks for calling, all of it.

[C]

How are you? Thanks for having me.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

So. So a lot of the icks that you're talking about, my wife used to talk to me about, and I didn't really appreciate it until she passed away in 21. So now, in going through the house, having to learn my kids shoe sizes when. When we're running low on milk, when the bathroom has to be cleaned as opposed to wiping down would suffice. All of these little things. Now, I don't have anyone who would do it in my absence.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So now it's like. It's really, really. It boils onto consideration for me. What bothers me may not bother her, but what bothered her didn't bother me. But again, it's only after she was gone that I realized, oh, okay. This is what she meant by it, and this is why. So I think if we, as men, you know, considered. How would you feel if someone ignored you saying the same thing 20 times?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Maybe it'll make you move a little faster.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to Deb from Park Ridge. Hey, Deb, thanks for calling, all of it.

[C]

Hey, you bet. And I would like the previous woman caller's husband's phone number.

[B]

Drop it in the chat, Alison.

[C]

Yes. Yes, please. I'll call him up. Anyway, I was calling to just mention two things. Firstly, my husband's a hoarder, but never mind about that. That's on a whole other level. But the truth of the matter is the emotional labor, that's really something. That phrase didn't come to my attention, and I'm ancient, but that phrase came to my attention relatively recently. A lot of what the women end up doing is the emotional labor. Who's crying? Who's being bullied in school? What are they afraid of? Did they get the period? Like what? You know, all that kind of stuff that supports and develops kids. A lot of times the men step back from that, and I'm not quite sure why that is. If they feel they're not emotionally Capable if they feel like that's just women's work, which it is not. The other thing I wanted to bring up was the way in which, when the man models. Oh, that's Mommy's problem. It does, as you all were saying, reflect on the kids. We had a kid who just lived at my house because his parents didn't notice him. So he just never went home. He came home one night, you know, can he sleep over? Sure. Then the next night he came back, and the next. He practically lived here. He did live here. So one day, my son, 8 years old, comes downstairs with this kid's laundry, pushes them in my direction and says, have these ready by 11. Now we laugh so hard. To this day, my children are pretty grown up to this day, when somebody doesn't know his place in the world, that is what we say.

[A]

Oh, have this done by 11.

[B]

Have this done by 11. Do you run a small BNB?

[A]

Possibly.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Something else I wanted to ask you about before we go to more calls is this idea of weaponized incompetence.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Explain this to people because it's really important.

[B]

Weaponized incompetence. I just go back to, like, Mark Twain, wherein in Tom Sawyer, Tom Sawyer gets the kids to whitewash a fence for him by saying they're better at it than he is. So with weaponized incompetence for guys, usually we use the stereotype of being useless around the house as a way of getting out of work. Right? Like, if you've ever seen movies like Mr. Mom. Right? Like, this guy just doesn't understand how to use, like, a popcorn maker. It just gets out of control. Even though he. He is an engineer by trade, but, like, those kind of myths, we kind of, like, take in wholesale, and that way, it absolves us of doing any work. And I'm sorry to say the quiet part out loud, but that is what it is, and I've been guilty of it.

[A]

This text says yes. Cleaning the bathroom without being asked and getting me flowers. It's going to be a sexy Valentine's night.

[B]

Is that my wife? Oh, my gosh. Alina, I got you.

[A]

Don't worry. This says, men don't see the socks on the floor or the dishes in the sink.

[B]

Can I say something now?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Okay. So in my research, this was really interesting, Allison, because this is. This is a part of. This is the brain. This is our. This is what the brain does. It's the brain. It's not. It's not the man again. It's the water not the shark. Right. So, okay, if we close our eyes, we can see our nose. Right? One eye, you can see your nose. Right eye, you can see your nose. But if you open both eyes, you can't see your nose. Why? Because the brain just avoids it. It doesn't. It pretends like it's not there. And so if you are socialized to do that, what else are you avoiding and. Or ignoring? I think with men, for me especially, it was things that were on the floor. Legos, not so much because they can pierce right through the skin, permeate, but like. But other things, I would just forget it. I don't care. There's books at the bottom of the stairs, clothes at the top of the stairs. My mate wants me to put them away. And I just. That doesn't. It doesn't scan for me. Right. So kind of learning that I needed to look out for those things, small things, was fundamental to me, to my change.

[A]

This says, my boyfriend stays at my place four nights a week. Perpetually broke and forgetting to invoice. He now pays per night. If he has the money, he can stay. If not, I say, okay, see you tomorrow. No judgment.

[B]

First of all, I mean, Bushwick is getting crazy, but, like, Bushwick is off the heezy. That is new. I like that. Listen, you better hit her on Venmo. Okay. That's a good Valentine's Day.

[A]

This is a good question. How can I convince my fiance to read this book without being accused of nagging?

[B]

Without being accused of nagging. How can I get him to read this book? Just say, first, get it on audiobook. Because a lot of guys, what we like to do is, like, listen to audiobooks and then tell you that we read a book. We didn't do that. A book, you know, like a story was told to us like we were four years old. So I would get the audiobook available now, where books are sold, and then I would just gift it to him and leave it there. And you can also say, a friend of yours, their partner, read it. Cause we get jealous.

[A]

Brent heard about it on all of it on wnyc. Yeah, that's a way in.

[B]

Charlemagne. The God Charlamagne. The God did the foreword. So if he likes Charlemagne, then there you go. I mean, like, sometimes men need, like, it has to be, like, man approved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, for me, I changed my ways a lot because I learned about what a quartermaster was in the army because I lived down the road from this guy who was, like, a colonel one summer. And he. And he just told me all about being a quartermaster. And I was like, that's so cool. You're the coolest. You're a colonel. I could do that. I could be a little colonel at my house, you know, and, like, that's what this brittle man needed. But, you know, to make it okay.

[A]

It'S what you needed. Let's talk to Jacob. Hey, Jacob, thanks for calling, all of it.

[C]

Hi there. So both my wife and I work, but she makes pretty much twice what I make. So she's kind of the financial provider. But I do all the other things I shop for. Food shopping, preparing food, laundry, cleaning and all of that. Like, it may not be the traditional, like, view of a provider, but I take great comfort in that and I see myself as a provider and so does she. Like, she's the financial side. But I still provide for our home and it gives me a lot of comfort. And we have a one year old at home, so there's a lot of work to do.

[A]

You do have a lot of work.

[C]

And we need a lot of money.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thanks for calling, Jacob. Let's go to Joanna in Brooklyn. Hi, Joanna. Thanks for taking the time to call, all of it.

[C]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm really enjoying this conversation. This is probably adding to what a previous caller called in about on the topic of women's emotional labor. And I think something that probably falls under that umbrella is I think there's a tendency for women to kind of take on the brunt of, like, forming and sustaining social relationships. And I think particularly once kids come into the picture, that can continue. You know, when it comes to maintaining, like, relationships, forming play dates, participating in classroom activities, or, you know, parent group chats, I'm fortunate that my partner is a very equal partner in that respect. But we did at one point have a conversation about the parent group chat. And I was like, I think you think that this is, like, more superficial than it is. It's, like, very important, and it's like, a lot of time and effort. And he was receptive to that. But again, I really appreciate the conversation and introducing terminology that some people might not be familiar with because it's very important.

[A]

Thank you so much for calling. I want to hear how you stepped up to the plate, how you shook off the old Jordan and introduced the new Jordan into your relationship.

[B]

Well, it started very simply, really. Like, it started with making coffee in the morning for my wife. Right. So I knew that I could do one little thing that would put a smile on her face or just like, one thing that. That where I could take a task off her plate. And that was it. She has her morning coffee at 7:15, sits it to the edge of the couch, reads, you know, reads the headlines. That's what she needs to do to start her day. And it's. I was like, okay, if I can do that one small thing, then great. But I'm also a comedian, and in comedy we have two strategies. Yes. And. And if this, then what else? So I looked around and that's when I was like, okay. She's always telling me to get milk. She's always telling me to get, you know, juice, whatever it is that we need. What if I just like, you know, short circuit that and start looking for those things or the bulbs are out? Like, start looking around. So just small things that weren't heavy lifts because I cannot do radical change, but I can do incremental until it's like, wow, what a tectonic shift. Right? Like, that was huge. So that's what I did. And then I started. And then someone handed me a book. My friend Phoebe Robinson handed me a book. We love Phoebe. It's called the 5am Club. And it was about waking up early. So before that, prior to that, I'd wake up at like, whenever mom told me to. And so then I was like, let me set my own standards. So then I started waking up at 5 and I had so much more time to come online and to tackle the day. Really, to tackle the day. And that, that made for a major, major shift. But I had to show myself that I could do these small things before I could even start waking up earlier.

[A]

You know, let's take one more call. Jennifer from Fairfield, Connecticut. Hi, Jennifer, you're a last call.

[C]

Oh, hi. Thanks for taking my call. Well, this has been a great show. I gotta get my husband give a listen. He's an artist and I'm an artist's wife, which is a job in itself.

[B]

Thank you for your service.

[C]

Yeah, I know they do. Their brains are wired completely different. And so we were together for 13 years and I became pregnant. And I had done all the cooking in the household and everything up to that point. And I finally just said when I got pregnant, was like, you know what? I'm not hungry. I don't care about food. Food makes me sick. I'm out. I'm not doing it anymore. And so he said, oh, okay, fine. You know, before that, he hadn't really shown any interest in making food, but he started doing the food shopping and doing the cooking and he turned out to be an amazing cook.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So that really worked out beautifully because from that time on, we share that sort of duties. But it took me a while to just ask that, you know, to let him know, I'm not doing it.

[B]

There you go, girl. I'm not doing it. I'm out. I love it.

[A]

When did your wife realize that you had made a change?

[B]

I think she realized that I'd made this significant change when my son, we were at the dinner table and I think he'd spilled some juice. And then we needed a paper towel. Paper towels were out. And my wife was like, we're all out of paper towels. And my son said, no, we have plenty. They're all downstairs. Daddy got the paper towels. Daddy always gets all the stuff. Right? So that really, that was like, it made me know that I had a role. Right. If my son is saying, and he's like 5 years old, that's when, I mean, it clicked. It clicked for her, clicked for everybody. Like, that's what this guy's gonna do. He's gonna overstuff this house with Costco products and that's gonna be his role. And it's actually worked out really great because of Instacart. This is not a plug for Instacart. But again, technology has helped the slob. And I found a little way to function in a Rube Goldberg machine kind of way in my home.

[A]

You know, the name of the book is chore play. The marriage saving magic of getting your head out of your ass is by Jordan Carlos. Like the way I say it.

[C]

Jordan.

[B]

I love how you say out your ass.

[A]

Jordan. Thanks for coming in and thanks for writing the book.

[B]

Of course. My pleasure, Lifelock. How can I help?

[C]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

My refund though. I'm freaking out.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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