Alison Stewart (2:38)

Where did the fight the Face place market book story start?

Lou Wall (2:44)

Well, it actually oh, that's a great question. I don't know where it initially started. I think I was like on Facebook Marketplace kind of when it was like popping off in Covid. Like I was living in Melbourne in Australia at the time and there was a lot of lockdowns and you know, obviously we. The only communal spaces you could be on were on the Internet and I was on Facebook Marketplace and there were so many crazy people with crazy stories and it just was pretty ripe for potential as a stand up bit. And so that's where it started.

Interviewer (3:16)

Did it always start with a bed? There's something about a bed which is really personal.

Lou Wall (3:20)

Yeah, it always started with a bed. I thought a bed is personal. A bed is also very hard to move. Like, do you know what I mean? Like it's an effort to get it anywhere. And so I thought that's the one.

Interviewer (3:29)

All right, so we've got the bed, we've got Facebook Marketplace as a wild, wild west. And then you had to come up with this character, Aileen. How did Aileen come into being?

Lou Wall (3:40)

I guess I just formed her based on a couple of interactions I'd had with other people on Facebook Marketplace. I think if you've ever been on there, if you've ever tried to sell something or retrieve something, you meet honestly the most intense Karens. And so she's kind of molded off that. But yeah, we workshopped her a few times, but yeah.

Interviewer (4:02)

So why do you think make the Facebook Marketplace work so well?

Lou Wall (4:06)

I think it's a couple of things. Number one is like it's Communal Enemy. Everyone hates that person on Facebook Marketplace. Do you know what I mean? But it's also like, it's so petty, but it makes you so frustrated. You know what I mean? They're not actually evil, they're just trying to haggle a bargain. But it is some of the most frustrating experiences you can have. So Communal Enemy, everyone's on there. And then also the bit is av and so I find it actually kind of, obviously I'm speaking as the text is going, which kind of in a way works as a secret version of subtitles.

Interviewer (4:44)

Oh, so smart.

Lou Wall (4:45)

It's like, you know, I guess if you can speak and, or read English and obviously, you know, I have an Australian accent, like I talk quite fast, I'm kind of singing. But I think it just makes, it's just like a level of accessibility that is not always available in comedy.

Interviewer (5:00)

And it's so funny because it's free. The bed is free. And there's something about that in People's minds. It does something weird to people's minds. I've given stuff away on Facebook and on Craigslist. And if you say it's free, it brings out sort of odd people.

Lou Wall (5:20)

Oh, absolutely.

Interviewer (5:21)

If you say it's $25, they'll come.

Lou Wall (5:23)

And then you just give it to.

Interviewer (5:24)

Them free, that's fine. But like, you have to say it's worth something.

Lou Wall (5:27)

I actually think that's why people will often put like $5 or something like a really cheap price just as a barrier to stop the chaotic souls coming out of the woodwork.

Alison Stewart (5:38)

What do you think it is about free that makes people odd people navigate towards it?

Lou Wall (5:44)

I have no idea. I genuinely just think people probably search the word free, scroll through and then message everyone.

Alison Stewart (5:51)

Well, so here's a big question. Why do you think this reached virality? Why do you think it touched so many people?

Lou Wall (6:00)

That's a really interesting question. Do you know the craziest thing about the show is that I wrote the show. I had the Facebook Marketplace bit already. I wrote a show about Facebook Marketplace going viral on the Internet, on the gala, before I'd ever booked the gala. So I kind of like assumed that it would reach some level of people because when I was doing it in stand up clubs, it was always my strongest bit interesting. But I think virality is this beautiful thing in that you can almost never predict it. And even if I was to guess, that's probably not the reason why masses of people. But I think it's just that common enemy and just having a laugh at something that's quite petty.

Alison Stewart (6:39)

I'm speaking to Lou Wall about their solo show Breaking the Fifth Wall. Truths and Lies and Lies about Lies. Their solo show runs at Soho Playhouse through October 5th. If you want to call in and join this conversation, we would like to know the biggest lie that you've ever told and got away with it. What was it? Why did you tell it? Even if you had to fess up? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Breaking the fifth wall. Please explain the title.

Lou Wall (7:07)

Oh, great, great question. So obviously it's based on Breaking the fourth Wall, which is in theatre when an actor is to, like, talk to the audience. So the Fifth Wall. To be completely honest, I had to write the title a long time before I had the show.

Alison Stewart (7:25)

Oh, interesting.

Lou Wall (7:26)

And I knew I wanted to write about lying. And I'd had a couple of beers when I was submitting it and I thought that it was the fifth wall instead of the fourth wall because I can't do maths but also like my last name is Wall and there's like five walls in my family. So I thought, you know, it kind of makes sense. And in the show I kind of explained the fifth wall as, you know, a kind of perceived barrier that only exists in stand up comed stand up. You know, it's often autobiographical. People are like speaking in first person. You kind of, I mean there's an assumption that a lot of it is truthful. And so I think the fifth wall is just like that layer between stand ups and their audience.

Alison Stewart (8:02)

It's interesting because there is a sort of a sliding scale that you present of comedians about how, how much they lie or how they alter the truth a little bit. Could you explain how the scale works?

Lou Wall (8:14)

Yeah, I mean, I think it just goes from lies that are inconsequential to lies that are quite problematic and implicate people. And often you'll hear a stand up say at the bar the other night when actually they didn't go to the bar the other night. It was a couple of years ago. And so that kind of thing I think is inconsequential. It's just contextual. It's for storytelling. It moves the story along. So that's its purpose. But then obviously there's lies that implicate people. Obviously, you know, a lot of Americans know the Hasan Minhaj lie that indicated someone, he's on the list. Yep, yep, yep. Obviously hurts somebody very badly. So I guess in my show I just talk about where the moral compass of lying is. Because inconsequential lies for the sake of good storytelling is I think, important. You know, exaggeration to some extent is very important to theatre and live performance. It slicks stories up, it makes them understandable, digestible. But I think as soon as it's, as soon as it is hurting someone or becoming deceptive in a way that is altering reality, I think, you know, I have problems with that.

Interviewer (9:26)

There's an interview you did on an Australian talk show, the Project.

Lou Wall (9:29)

Yes.

Interviewer (9:30)

And right after asking about breaking the fifth wall, one of the hosts, they ask you this.

Ira Flato (9:36)

I left it really wanting to meet Eileen. Can we, I mean, you must have a contact number. Can we catch up with Eileen somehow?

Lou Wall (9:44)

I can hook you up. Maybe I should put like a contact number and a QR code at the end of my show.

Alison Stewart (9:48)

Y.

Interviewer (9:49)

Okay, wait, there's no Eileen. So in that moment, what did you do? You decided to just go with it or not go with It. I think that was such an interesting moment.

Lou Wall (10:01)

Yeah, that's a great question, because also, like, the project is technically a news show. It's a news panel. There are also comedians on there and telling comedy jokes that aren't true on there. So I had told them beforehand that, you know, it wasn't true, all this kind of stuff. And they're like, can we ask about Eileen? So at the end of the show, there is a QR code on screen. And obviously, if you scan that, you can talk to Eileen. And then Eileen then reveals to you that it is me, and I speak to you. So it's actually like a little plot of the show. So that's how that came in. But, you know, on face value, it is technically a white lie.

Interviewer (10:37)

My guest is Lou Wahl. Their show is called breaking the fifth wall. It's at Soho Playhouse through October 5th. When you're doing this show in front of an audience that's very excited to see you, what's the hardest lie to sell to the show and sell to the audience?

Lou Wall (10:56)

I think the truths are a lot harder to tell than the lies.

Interviewer (11:00)

Interesting. So what truth would be hard?

Lou Wall (11:03)

I think the truth that I find the hardest is saying, like, I don't lie off the stage. And obviously, when I say that in the show, I say it with subtext, and I get to laugh because people think I'm lying. But because with comedy, everything is prepared, and you're saying the same thing every night. There is a level of acting that you have to give everything. And so I find the truths definitely the hardest to tell because sometimes I try and make them more believable, but it's almost like the more affectations you put on it, the harder it is to believe anyway. But, yeah, the lies are easy in a way that they just feel like I'm acting on stage.

Interviewer (11:41)

That's what I thought was interesting. I'm so glad you said acting, because after I saw the show, I thought. I thought there was quite a bit of acting in it.

Lou Wall (11:49)

Yeah, totally.

Interviewer (11:49)

In a good way. In a pleasant way.

Lou Wall (11:51)

Yeah. I mean, the whole thing, I feel like I'm playing a character.

Interviewer (11:56)

Okay, tell me about playing a character named Lou, who's a lot like the Lou you are.

Lou Wall (12:01)

Absolutely. Well, I think we do this in comedy anyway. Right. Like, when I'm on the stage, I'm gonna talk to the audience in a different way than I would talk to someone backstage. And it's not that different, but, like, you know, I'm not gonna say I'm gonna use certain Language. I'm gonna like, make it joke heavy. Like, you know, a lot of things. How do I describe this? Yeah, I just think, like, I. It's like a level of performative. I think I'm. My performance self is so similar, but also slightly removed from my regular self. And so this show, I guess, like the entire thing is really about seeing where the lines blur, where they cross over. But yeah, it's definitely a character. I think every time you go on stage, every time you're in front of an audience, there's a level of performativity that is not your regular self.

Interviewer (12:52)

Let's talk to Mike from Sussex County. Hey, Mike, thanks for calling, all of it. What's your love?

Ira Flato (12:59)

Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, so the gist of it is that it really has to do kind of with comedy. I don't do stand up or anything like that for a living, but I do, you know, talk, tell jokes in front of people and I like to entertain them. Irish background. So that's kind of how I guess that goes. In any case, you know, I had this. This bit that I did about being stuck in an airport during a delay and, you know, getting a coffee and donuts in a newspaper and sitting down and across from. I was younger at the time, but I was sitting down across from a suit, as I would describe a different class, different generation of a gu. You know, he had a coffee and a newspaper as well, and. And I'm waiting there and. And you know, eventually I open up the pack of donuts, I take one, and then he kind of looks at me like I'm, you know, doing the wrong thing and. And whatever. I go to read my newspaper, no big deal. And then at some point, he takes a donut from my belt, my donuts. And then this goes back and forth. And I'm looking at him, he's looking at me. And eventually he gets him to huff and disappears and. And that's that. And eventually I get up, pick up a newspaper and realize my donuts are underneath and I've been eating his donuts the whole time. So this gets a big laugh. And now fast forward 20 years, right? And I'm telling this story and somebody recognizes the bit from a book, you know, so long and thanks for all the fish. I forget who wrote it, something like that. But in any case, it calls me out on the fact that he's already heard the bit and it's not my bit and clearly it didn't happen to me. And I think, you know, you, when you're when you're doing, when you're entertaining people with a story or a joke like that, we. You kind of have a bit of carb lash to. To. It's only funny if it's in the first person. So you can sit back and do nothing and stare at each other. Right. And talk about politics or the weather or sports or, you know, you can talk about a funny story. And if it's funny in the first person, you know, that's how you tell it.

Interviewer (15:01)

And I'm dive in there really quick. I'm going to get your reaction to that.

Lou Wall (15:06)

That's so interesting. I've actually heard of that happening before, you know, when people will tell bits and there'll be someone else's bit, but that's like another level of lying in that it's like taking someone else's work as well. So I think that's like, really interesting. But I think a lot of people do it.

Alison Stewart (15:19)

Let's talk to Julie from Manville, New Jersey. Hi, Julie. Thanks for calling all of it. You're on the air.

Lou Wall (15:25)

Hi.

Julie (15:27)

So my story is that I was cat sitting for my parents while they were on vacation, and they had this really sweet, friendly cat who unfortunately had been bitten by their dog. And when I asked them about it, they were kind of like, oh, it's going to heal on its own. He'll get better. Like, it's fine. And so I felt that the cat was being neglected. So while they were gone, I just took him. I told him that he died and I rehomed him. I had him for six months because he had to get better from his bite wound first. So that did involve, like, vet visits. And I had to hide him whenever they came over. And yeah, they still sometimes are like, oh, it's so sad how he died while we were away. And the nice lady that I adopted him to sends me pictures of him from time to time. So I know he's doing well.

Alison Stewart (16:25)

I'm just gonna say, thanks, Julie, for calling in. That's a wild story.

Interviewer (16:31)

That's insane. Wow.

Alison Stewart (16:34)

Well, I guess she felt that she was doing a better thing.

Lou Wall (16:37)

I respect your dedication to the health of that cat.

Alison Stewart (16:41)

I'm speaking to Lou Wahl about their solo show Breaking the fifth Wall. It's about truth and lies and lies about lies. Their solo show runs at Soho Playhouse through October 5th. You know, it's interesting, recently there has been this group of comics who tell stories that come from real life. Mike Birbiglia, Hannah Gadsby. But it's about something bigger it's like an essay. How would you describe your comedy? Is it like that? Is it about something bigger than just telling lies and it's kind of funny? I think there is something bigger in your story.

Lou Wall (17:18)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I obviously started doing comedy about the time that Ninette was happening in Australia and kind of blowing up everywhere. And I think a lot of. I think this show is very different to all my other shows. I think you'd probably say that my other shows have a lot of heart in them, but. And I'm a little more earnest, I guess, but I think this show came from, like two places. The first place was that I started doing some work on TV in Australia and I realized how much I enjoy my privacy. Interesting. And you know, like, that relationship between audience and self and like, you know, TV fans are very different to live comedy fans, and I really wanted to protect that. So part of. Part of making this show about lying is like creating a barrier between me and the audience. And then the other thing was I was looking at all of these shows, I was looking at people doing shows that were like, you know, about incredibly important topics that were like these essays, as you say, and thinking like, you know, where does club comedy meet those kind of things? And then also you had people like, you know, Zelensky started as a stand up comedian and now is in a role where you would not want him to lie. And so I really wanted to talk about that because, like, obviously in Australia as well, a lot of journalists, a lot of comedians are on news shows and you're like, that is of kind, technically journalism in one sense. Like, but so I just really wanted to talk about that. So I think at its core, this show is a warning to people to just say, like, gullibility and trust is a beautiful thing. I think we should all have it. I think we should trust humans. But I think we should also question what we're seeing as entertainment outside of comedy.

Alison Stewart (19:03)

You appeared in a show called was it wtfaq?

Lou Wall (19:07)

That's correct.

Alison Stewart (19:08)

Right. You were on which comedians investigate and report on different topics.

Lou Wall (19:11)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (19:12)

How did that writing and that reporting about the Internet affect this show and affect the Facebook marketplace bit?

Lou Wall (19:21)

Yeah, So I make that, like, quite distinctive from my comedy. But, like, you know, that was essentially, in a sense, investigative journalism. And I had a fact checker on all of my work and, you know, it had to pass many barriers before it got published. But I guess the Facebook marketplace was a social experiment to test whether people knew the difference between those two things and then to say if you don't know the difference, this is something we should be talking about. Talking about actively within entertainment.

Interviewer (19:48)

For example, give us an example in the Facebook marketplace bit where you should.

Alison Stewart (19:54)

Really know that it's not real.

Lou Wall (19:58)

I don't think there's a specific bit where you should know that it's not real, but I think you should question how perfect of a story arc it is and also the amount of rhymes.

Interviewer (20:13)

Let's talk to Liz on line two from Suffolk County. Hi, Liz. Thanks for calling all of it. Are you going to share your lie with us?

Liz (20:21)

Yes, I am going to share it. This is the first time I've made it on your radio show and at any point in time. Yeah. So I'm going to be 70, my sister is going to be 66. So we're four years apart and we used to fight a lot when we were young. And so when I was about 11 and she was about 7, my parents were out and we could got into it and she kicked me in the butt and I did not get hurt, but she broke her big toe and she. We did not tell our parents. There was no mention of any injury whatsoever. And to this day her toe is crooked and we laugh about it, but that's the big lie.

Interviewer (21:05)

Thank you for sharing. The big lie that happened when you were 7 and 11 and she still remembers it to this day.

Lou Wall (21:11)

That's iconic.

Interviewer (21:12)

That's amazing.

Lou Wall (21:13)

I can't believe it's so crooked.

Interviewer (21:14)

I know. She might want to see somebody about that. Do you have friends and family who have seen the show and how do they feel about it?

Lou Wall (21:23)

Yeah, absolutely.

Interviewer (21:25)

Because you mentioned your dad, but it's not your dad.

Lou Wall (21:27)

It's not my dad. I think most of my family have seen it. I think a lot of people think that this is my most truthful show, which in a sense it is. Do you know any? Do you know what I mean? Sorry. Because I think like, telling people that you lie is one of the, for me at least, it's like the biggest vulnerability I can do in stand up comedy because it's like it's losing that trust and that's all you have with an audience is like, that they trust you and you trust them to trust you. So I think, yeah, my best mate, when she first saw it was like, that is your most like, truthful show.

Interviewer (22:02)

Wow. Can I ask you a couple of questions? Because I just was curious after the show.

Lou Wall (22:07)

Absolutely.

Interviewer (22:08)

Are you really 6 4? You said that on the show and I got obsessed with it.

Lou Wall (22:13)

I am six four. However, I believe. In one publication it says that I'm six' five and in one it says I'm six' three, but I am six' four.

Interviewer (22:22)

And have you ever had muscle milk like you claim in the show? That's all we're gonna say.

Lou Wall (22:27)

I have never and will never drink muscle milk.

Interviewer (22:31)

And do you come out after the show to speak to the audience, or are we just left to wonder what would happen if you did?

Lou Wall (22:40)

I do. I come out and speak and also like when I'm done picking up. But I also, like, will always reply if people message me on Instagram or via email because I genuinely want people to know the truth.

Interviewer (22:53)

I was speaking I am speaking to Lou Wall about their solo show Breaking the Fifth Wall about Truth and Lies and the Lies About Lies, their solo show at Soho Playhouse through October 5th. It was really a pleasure to meet you.

Lou Wall (23:07)

Thank you so much.

Interviewer (23:07)

That's not a lie. That's true.

Ira Flato (23:09)

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.