Composing For 'The Brutalist' (The Big Picture)

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Composing For 'The Brutalist' (The Big Picture)"

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart from WNYC, the spotlight is on the intricate process behind composing the award-nominated score for the film The Brutalist. Daniel Blumberg, the talented composer responsible for the evocative music that underpins the film’s narrative, joins Alison to discuss his creative journey, collaboration with the director, and the unique challenges of scoring a film that intertwines epic storytelling with intimate character development.

Background of Daniel Blumberg and The Brutalist

Alison Stewart introduces Daniel Blumberg as the composer of the score for The Brutalist, a film that delves into the life of Hungarian architect Laszlo Toth and his journey to America. Blumberg's work on the film earned him an Oscar nomination for Best Original Score. He describes the score as "a cohesive collage" that mirrors the complexity and depth of the film’s story, balancing grand architectural narratives with personal love stories (00:39).

Initiation of the Project

Daniel Blumberg shares how his longstanding friendship with the director, Brady Corbet, facilitated his involvement in The Brutalist. “[...] he sent me the script as soon as he'd finished writing it. So we started working on it straight away” (02:04). This immediate collaboration set the foundation for a deeply integrated creative process.

Learning from Past Experiences

Although The Brutalist is only Blumberg's second film score, his previous experience taught him the importance of aligning with the director’s vision. He emphasizes the necessity of adhering to the production schedule and being a supportive collaborator: “It's very much trying to help the director basically achieve what they want to” (02:25).

Close Collaboration with the Director

Blumberg elaborates on the close working relationship he maintained with Brady Corbet throughout the project. Living together in the same apartment in Budapest allowed for continuous dialogue and real-time collaboration on the score. “[...] we worked very closely together throughout the whole thing” (03:06). This proximity enabled Blumberg to swiftly adapt the music to the evolving dynamics of the film set.

Integrating Music into the Filming Process

A unique aspect of Blumberg’s approach was integrating live music into the filming process. By having a jazz band perform on set during the first day of shooting, the cinematographer could synchronize camera movements with the music, and actors could respond to the live sounds. Blumberg notes, “there was a real dialogue between the departments” (04:27). This method ensured that the music was an organic part of the film from the outset.

Developing Musical Themes

Discussing the development of Laszlo Toth’s theme, Blumberg explains his instinctual approach to composing, relying on conversations with Corbet rather than formal music theory. “I sort of try and use my instincts and just retain the conversations I've had with Brady” (09:58). This intuitive process allowed the theme to evolve naturally with the character’s journey, from chaos to romance.

Recording and Performance Techniques

Blumberg highlights the importance of authentic performances in capturing the emotional depth of the score. He worked with renowned musicians like John Tilbury, whose piano presence is intentionally recorded to reflect Laszlo’s artistic journey. “We wanted to... hear his presence because it was sort of married to the artistic journey that the character Laszlo was going on through the film” (09:58). Additionally, the intermission piece was recorded in a natural setting, incorporating ambient sounds to enhance the realism of the film's pause.

Time-Period Transitions in the Score

Addressing how the score reflects different decades, Blumberg describes his strategy for musically bridging the 1940s to the 1980s within the film. By shifting musical styles—using bebop for the 1950s and synthesizers for the 1980s—the score mirrors the film’s temporal transitions. Collaborating with Vince Clarke from Depeche Mode and Yazoo, he incorporated authentic 80s sounds while maintaining the acoustic foundation of the overall score: “I was really excited, the idea that people would be sitting in the audience for three hours and then suddenly these digital sounds would appear” (16:08).

Challenges and Adaptations

Blumberg candidly discusses the challenges of composing without formal training in music theory. “I can't read music. Or, you know, I don't write it down on paper... a lot of it's done through communicating, just talking about it and listening together and trying things” (11:33). This unconventional method required close collaboration with musicians who could translate his ideas into written scores, ensuring the final product aligned with his vision.

Conclusion and Final Remarks

The episode concludes with Alison Stewart congratulating Daniel Blumberg on his Oscar nomination and reflecting on the profound impact of his work on The Brutalist. Blumberg expresses gratitude and satisfaction with the collaborative process, emphasizing the seamless integration of music and narrative: “Thank you very much. Really appreciate it” (17:56).

Key Takeaways

• Collaborative Process: The close personal and professional relationship between Blumberg and Corbet was pivotal in creating a cohesive and dynamic score.

• Intuitive Composition: Blumberg’s reliance on instinctual methods over formal music theory allowed for a more organic and emotionally resonant score.

• Integration of Music and Film: By incorporating live music into the filming process and aligning musical themes with narrative developments, the score became an intrinsic part of the storytelling.

• Authentic Soundscapes: The use of period-specific instruments and techniques, along with collaborations with renowned musicians, added depth and authenticity to the score.

Daniel Blumberg’s work on The Brutalist exemplifies the profound impact a thoughtfully composed score can have on a film, enhancing both its grandeur and its intimate moments. This episode of All Of It provides an illuminating glimpse into the art and collaboration behind creating a memorable cinematic experience.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it from wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart and this is from the score of best picture nominee the Brutalist. The composer of that score is my next guest. Daniel Plumberg worked with musicians all over the world to create a score that felt like a cohesive collage. The result is as epic as the story of Hungarian architect Laszlo Toth coming to America, but also as intimate as the love story between Laszlo and his wife. That theme and the rest of the excellent compositions earned Daniel Blumberg an Oscar nomination for best original score. And he joins me now as part of our series the Big Picture. That's when we speak to Oscar nominees who worked behind the camera to make excellent film. Daniel, it's so nice to have you on the show.

[Daniel Blumberg]

Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

When were you first approached about composing the Brutalist?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, I've been friends with the director Brady for many years and he sent me the script as soon as he'd finished writing it. So we started working on it straight away.

[Alison Stewart]

I understand this is only your second time scoring a film. What did you learn the first time that was useful to you this time?

[Daniel Blumberg]

I think it's just you have to sort of keep up with all the production schedule and you're really working with someone for someone else's vision. It's very much trying to help the director basically achieve what they want to. And particularly with this, where Brady wrote the script with his partner Mona, it's like just basically trying to help them. Yeah. Musically sort of say what they want to say.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Well, what did Brady Corbet tell you about what he wanted to achieve with the score of this film?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, it was part of a conversation that we've been having since we met about 10 years ago. Just everything we. We've always spoken about music and films that we love, but we spent a lot of time together. I was staying with him during the shoot and since. Since the pre production started and we were living in the same apartment and. Yeah, it was, we. It was very. We worked very closely together throughout the whole thing.

[Sponsor Announcement]

You were living in the same apartment?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Yeah, yeah. He had a place in Budapest and I had a room and his apartment with a keyboard and we Sort of huddled together around the keyboard when he got back from set and worked on the cues, because he wanted to shoot a lot of the music, not a lot of the film to music. So the first sort of aim with it all was to. To make song, make the cues that would play out on the set.

[Sponsor Announcement]

That's so interesting, the idea that you were with your keyboard down the hall. He comes home from his set, says, hey, this happened. What we can. What can we do with this. This. This information I'm giving you?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Yeah, I would visit the set as well, but definitely we would. We would be up late in the evening and his assistant would sometimes knock on the door and say, brady, you've got to go to sleep. You're waking up at seven to shoot. Yeah, but it was very. It was great because it meant that this sort of music was part of the picture from the beginning. There was a real dialogue between the departments. And I had some live music on set as well. I got a jazz band to come and play on set. And that was the first day of shooting. So, like, the cinematographer could move the camera to the music. And Adrian, the lead actors, was able to sort of respond to the music in real time.

[Alison Stewart]

That's interesting. What did you learn from watching them respond to the music in real time?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, I think then when we went and they did the edit and then we were in post production, you're sort of looking at the picture and you're. You feel like really part of that world. So it's easier to make decisions when I'm with. Working with musicians afterwards because. Because I sort of feel like I'm part of the world. So my instincts kind of can react to. Yeah. The story and Brady's vision.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Daniel Blumberg, composer for the score for the Brutalist. He is nominated for best original score at this year's Academy Awards. The opening scene includes your overture, and it begins with the ship overture. It's the chaos of the scene is really reflected into the music. Let's listen to a little bit and we can talk about it on the other side. It's.

[Sponsor Announcement]

I just experienced something going through that, just listening to that. What did you want the audience to feel as that explodes, that that sound just explodes in that minute?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, we always spoke about the overture, the first 10 minutes of the film being constant music. And we wanted to introduce all the sort of protagonists, the musical protagonists of the score. There's some amazing players like Evan Parker and soprano saxophone, and Axel Dorner on trumpet. Sophie Aniel on piano. And they're really special artists in their own right. And also the soundscapes, like the sort of sonic world of what the score would be, so introducing all the instruments that you'd hear. But it was a real collaboration with the sound mix as well. So, like, they would send a sketch and then I would sort of have to speak to Steve, who was doing the sound, about how the tubers would interact with the sound of the ship. And, yeah, one of the interesting things about that conversation was he sent sirens for the opening of the film. And I ended up getting all the brass players to play sirens at the end of each session. So there's these kind of this cacophony of sirens being played by the brass at the start.

[Sponsor Announcement]

I want to talk a little bit about Laszlo's theme. I want to play three clips.

[Alison Stewart]

Let's hear it in its. Its most simple form from the library. And then let's hear an intense bit from the overture ship. And now let's listen to once again from the library. Daniel, how did you arrive on that theme for Laszlo?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, I'm not. I wasn't. I don't know music theory and stuff. So I. When I write, I sort of try and use my instincts and just retain the conversations I've had with Brady and I. I came to this theme and thought it would be when Brady was into it. I started working out how it could develop in. Because the film's three and a half hours. So it was when. When I was looking at the themes and writing them, I was sort of hoping to find things that could sustain the narrative. And in the second half of the film, the theme turns into this romantic piece that when he meets his wife after the Holocaust, they meet for the first time. So it was. I like the simplicity of it because it meant that it could be quite malleable. And the library sequence was amazing pianist called John Tilbury, who was. He's 88 at the time we recorded, and he just has a really beautiful touch on the piano. And we wanted to. I actually put microphones on him so you could hear his presence because it was sort of married to the artistic journey that the character Laszlo was going on through the film. So we wanted. Me and Brady wanted that to be like this feeling that the artist, the pianist, is present throughout the film.

[Sponsor Announcement]

All right, there's two things you said I have to ask you about. You don't know music theory?

[Daniel Blumberg]

No, I can't read music. Or, you know, I don't write it down on paper. Yeah. I just do it by ear and.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Then you give it to someone who will transcribe it. Is that the way it works?

[Daniel Blumberg]

No, I don't really use notation at all. There was actually the bus theme. My friend who knows. He's. He studied jazz and he knows how to write music down. And for the. For the. I got this. I worked with the brass trio and he transcribed this demo that I did for that. But in general, I like to just work by ear with the musicians and I show them things on the piano or I have a little keyboard that I'll play something to. And then we just. A lot of it's done through communicating, just talking about it and listening together and trying things.

[Sponsor Announcement]

The movie has a built in, 15 minute intermission. Anybody who's seen it knows. And the music is composed by you and I. I believe it's by the pianist you mentioned earlier.

[Daniel Blumberg]

Yes, the intermission.

[Sponsor Announcement]

Yes.

[Daniel Blumberg]

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was really beautiful collaboration because it was. I recorded him and he. All of the recordings with John were done in his garden. He has this sort of shed in his garden where he has a grand piano. And so I had a portable recording set up and I'd mostly work with the musicians where they were comfortable and with him, it was in his garden in Kent. You can hear birds walking on his roof and him sort of scribbling notes on his stave because he was trying to work out how to introduce Kletsmith to the piece that I'd written. And I recorded him in real time trying to work these things out. And the theme, the Ezra Betts theme starts to emerge and Brady and I really like that quality of someone. Yeah. Working something out during the intermission. And yeah, it's. I really like that recording.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to a little bit of the. Dan let. A little bit of a practical question. The intermission may be a time when people are thinking about the films. They may be talking to their friends, they may be coming and going. Did you keep that in mind?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Oh, yeah, definitely. We. We spoke about the intermission for the whole duration of working on it because it was in the script and that was definitely a consideration that it would. We wanted it to acknowledge that people might be leaving the room or having a conversation. And I think the fact that there's sort of. It's that dynamic recording where you can hear his sort of stool, his piano stool creaking and birds walking on the roof and all that, that was something we felt was correct. When we landed on that piece. I showed it to Brady and we both were really immediately thought that was the right parts of the intermission.

[Sponsor Announcement]

I'm curious, as a composer, you have to span decades from the 40s to the 80s. I mean, there's obviously ways that you can make it sound different, but what are the subtle ways that you made time move on in the score?

[Daniel Blumberg]

Well, one of the main cues where we wanted to do that was it sort of jumps from the 40s to the 50s quite suddenly. And that was the first jazz scene evokes the 40s. And they're playing this theme that recurs. I called it the building theme. And then it's when Brady wanted time to move quite Fast to the 50s, I worked with a band who played it kind of more bebop style. And then later in the film, it quickly goes to the 80s for the epilogue and I used synthesizers. I worked with Vince Clark from Depeche Mode and Yazoo because he really defined the sound of the 80s to me. And I was really excited because the whole score is acoustic instruments. And then it was really exciting, the idea that people would be sitting in the audience for 30 for three hours and then suddenly the. These digital sounds would appear. And then Brady was using this Betamax, which is like an early digital format for the 80s. So both the picture and the music suddenly goes into this 80s technology, which I thought would be exciting because it's quite abrupt and shocking. I've just ruined it for everyone. If you see it, you give them.

[Sponsor Announcement]

More information, they'll appreciate it more. My guest has been Daniel Bloomberg. He is compose of for the Brutalist. He is nominated for best original score at this year's Academy Awards. Congratulations on your work, Daniel.

[Daniel Blumberg]

Thank you. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll go out on an overture from the Brutalist.

[Ira Flatow]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to. To the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.