Podcast Summary: "Cronenberg's 'The Shrouds' On Criterion"

Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guests: David Cronenberg (B, Writer/Director), Diane Kruger (C, Actor)
Date: August 28, 2025

Overview

This episode of All Of It features an in-depth conversation with filmmaker David Cronenberg and actress Diane Kruger about their new film The Shrouds, now streaming on the Criterion Channel. The discussion covers the film’s origins in personal grief, its innovative blending of technology and mourning, dark humor, acting challenges, and broader questions about death, legacy, and moving on.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Genesis and Fictional Transformation

• Cronenberg’s motivation: The film is closely linked to Cronenberg’s own experience of losing his wife of 43 years, but quickly evolved into fiction as characters took on lives of their own.
  • Quote:

    "Certainly I knew that I felt I had to do something to address the loss of my wife of 43 years. But as soon as you start to write, it becomes fiction."
    — David Cronenberg [01:46]

• Transition from autobiography: The process of writing allows grief to be explored through imaginative, rather than literal, means.

2. Diane Kruger’s Approach to Complex Roles

• Initial reaction: Kruger recounts being surprised by how personal the script was and the discomfort of addressing death and bodies.
  • Quote:

    "I remember reading the script and being quite taken aback by how, in a way, it felt different for a David Cronenberg film...I walked away with this sense of, wow, this is very personal. It feels very emotional and yet very uncomfortable as well, because we are uncomfortable with themes of death and bodies."
    — Diane Kruger [02:41–03:45]

• Portraying three characters: Kruger played Karsh's wife (Becca), her sister (Terry), and the AI assistant (Honey), tailoring her process for each.
  • Preparation: Worked closely with Cronenberg, drew on his insights and the inspirations behind each character.
  • On acting as Honey (the AI):

    "I had so much fun. I was in a motion capture suit in a sort of empty warehouse with 14 cameras around. So it's a different kind of acting, but it's still acting."
    — Diane Kruger [07:37–07:48]

3. Directorial Style and Decision Making

• Directing philosophy: Cronenberg stresses the importance of casting, then stepping back and trusting the actors to inhabit their roles.
  • Quote:

    "I try not to direct very much...he trusts you. He expects you to be prepared and ready, but it's a collaboration. He trusts that you know what you're doing, and he helps you get that done."
    — Diane Kruger [05:39]

• Contrast with expectations: Kruger expected Cronenberg to be "cold, very precise, very demanding alien," but found him warm and collaborative.

4. Dark Humor Amidst Grief

• Humor as a coping mechanism: Cronenberg purposely injects dark comedy, noting that all his films blend horror and humor, reflecting real life.
  • Quote:

    "Grief is rotting your teeth. That was the first line of dialogue that I thought of for the movie... I know [my films] are considered to be dark and horrific...but they're also very funny. And it's like life. I mean, I don't know how you could get through life itself without humor."
    — David Cronenberg [08:18]

• Different audience receptions: At Cannes there was hardly any laughter, while Toronto and New York audiences responded more freely.
  • Quote:

    "Screening in New York Film Festival, wall to wall laughter. Which, to me, is correct. That's the right response."
    — David Cronenberg [09:01]

5. Themes of Technology, Mourning, and Moving On

• Technology's role: The protagonist invents "Grave Tech," allowing mourners to livestream their loved one's graves, highlighting modern detachment and longing.
  • Quote:

    "He's a high tech entrepreneur and he thinks in terms of high tech solutions to everything, including his grief. But I think he comes to a point where he realizes that that can only go so far to providing a life for you."
    — David Cronenberg [12:12]

• Research for authenticity: Cronenberg researched burial practices worldwide, considering making a series about global high-tech cemeteries.
• Relationships after loss: The movie explores the uncomfortable, tension-filled space of new relationships while honoring deep loss.
  • Kruger on Terry and Karsh:

    "The ghost of Becca is very much there. No matter where he turns, no matter how much he would like to move on or find love again, he can't escape her... so for [Terry], it's great loss too."
    — Diane Kruger [14:23–15:20]

6. Portrayal of Death, Vulnerability, and Physicality

• Challenging scenes: Kruger discusses the emotional and physical difficulty of playing illness, death, and vulnerability, especially in nude scenes.
  • Quote:

    "I have to be honest...I felt very vulnerable. I have to be honest. Honest. Plus the added, you know, losing an arm, being in the illness of it all was. Wasn't easy..."
    — Diane Kruger [15:46]

• Avoiding clichés: Cronenberg chose not to depict happy flashbacks but instead focused on the raw, physical end of the relationship.
  • Quote:

    "I really thought it would be. Karsh would be focusing on the end of their relationship and the pain of the relationship...their body becomes the focus of an entire family."
    — David Cronenberg [17:13]

• Tender/harrowing moments: Alison Stewart highlights the heartbreaking scene when Karsh cradles Becca and her hip cracks, underscoring the film's emotional intensity.

7. Paranoia and Meaning in Grief

• Paranoia’s role: The film delves into conspiracy and paranoia as a way of coping with random, meaningless loss.
  • Quote:

    "It's also, it seems random and without meaning. And we also have evolved to look for meaning everywhere. And the death... it's too random to accept. And so one of the ways that you can create meaning is through a conspiracy theory."
    — David Cronenberg [18:35]

8. Reflections on Death and Legacy

• Impact on personal perspective: Kruger shares that the film made her more aware of embracing life, love, and being present.
  • Quote:

    "...to be more aware of it, to say that while I am here, we should make the most of not just the spiritual idea of being in love, but also the physicality of it, to be present, to enjoy the time that is left."
    — Diane Kruger [20:31]

• Legacy: Cronenberg is unconcerned with how future viewers will interpret his body of work, emphasizing the artist's lack of control over legacy.
  • Quote:

    "After I'm dead, I'm not going to worry about my legacy, frankly."
    — David Cronenberg [21:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On writing and grief:

  "As soon as you start to write, it becomes fiction...you are creating fictional characters who take on a life of their own and start to push you around. They surprise you, and you want that."
  — David Cronenberg [01:46]

• On acting for Cronenberg:

  "He trusts you. He expects you to be prepared and ready, but it's a collaboration. He trusts that you know what you're doing, and he helps you get that done. But he steps back, like you said."
  — Diane Kruger [05:39]

• On humor and seriousness:

  "All of my movies are funny. I mean, I know they're considered to be dark and horrific...but they're also very funny. And it's like life."
  — David Cronenberg [08:18]

• Kruger on the emotional impact:

  "I was equally disturbed and amused. But also I felt really bad about death and all these questions...as time has passed...it evolves, like, now...I see so much beauty and so much love, and I see the absurdity and the AI thing. And it's just. There's so much in this film."
  — Diane Kruger [09:52–10:50]

• On vulnerability and loss:

  "I had to treat lightly with how I treated her because I loved her so much, you know, I loved their relationship so much."
  — Diane Kruger [16:44]

Important Segments with Timestamps

• [01:42] – Cronenberg explains why he made the film and how grief transformed into fiction
• [02:41] – Kruger shares her first reaction to the script and its uncomfortable intimacy
• [05:39] – Discussion of Cronenberg’s directing style and trust in actors
• [08:18] – Cronenberg on injecting humor into dark subjects and audience reactions
• [11:27] – Film clip: Karsh awkwardly discusses dating with Terry
• [12:12] – Cronenberg explains the protagonist’s efforts to move on and the role of technology
• [14:23] – Kruger analyzes the relationship dynamics between her characters and Karsh
• [15:46] – Kruger recounts challenging scenes of physical vulnerability and sadness
• [17:13] – Cronenberg on avoiding happy flashbacks in favor of focusing on the body and end-of-life
• [18:35] – The theme of paranoia as a search for meaning in bereavement
• [20:31–21:17] – Reflections on death, presence, and making the most of life
• [21:33] – Cronenberg’s views on legacy and letting go

Tone and Atmosphere

• Reflective, candid, emotionally honest, and at times wryly humorous.
• Stewart’s hosting draws out both personal storytelling and creative insight.
• The conversation is respectful, thoughtful, and leaves space for vulnerability.

Conclusion

This thoughtful interview with David Cronenberg and Diane Kruger illuminates how personal grief, technology, and the difficulties of moving on intersect in The Shrouds. Ranging from the practicalities of filmmaking to the metaphysical questions of death, legacy, and love, the conversation offers both heartfelt wisdom and memorable wit. The Shrouds is revealed as a complex meditation on mortality, humor, and the human need to create meaning—even, or especially, amid loss.