
Writer and director David Cronenberg's new film "The Shrouds" is partly inspired from the grief of losing his wife in recent years.
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A
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. Now we want to shout out the streaming release for David Cronenberg's latest film, the Shrouds. It's available now to watch on the Criterion Channel. The movie centers around a grieving man who watches his wife's body decay in her grave, literally and lovingly. The protagonist, Karsh, is an entrepreneur whose wife Becca has died of cancer. Driven by grief, he invents grave Tech. The company wraps bodies in high tech shrouds that allows mourners to access a livestream camera feed of their loved one's buried corpse. Karsh checks in on his late wife regularly. He has an AI assistant named Honey that is designed to look and sound like her. He also spends time with Becca's sister Terry, who looks just like her. But when vandals destroy grave text burial plots, including Becca's, everything is upended. The Shrouds was written and directed by David Cronenberg, who was inspired in part by the loss of his own wife Carolyn, in 2017. And the movie stars Diane Kruger in three different roles and as Karsha's wife Becca, as Becca's sister Terry, and as Honey, Karsha's AI assistant. The Shrouds is now available to stream on the Criterion channel, so go watch it for yourselves. When the Shrouds premiered in New York, I spoke to Diane Krueger and David Cronenberg, and I began by asking him why he wanted to make this movie.
B
Well, you're never really sure when you start to write a screenplay. You don't really know what's gonna in the old days, what's gonna come up out of the typewriter. Certainly I knew that I felt I had to do something to address the loss of my wife of 43 years. But as soon as you start to write, it becomes fiction. So even though the sort of the incentive to do this comes from things that you've said, things that you've felt, events that you've lived through. Once you start to write, you are creating fictional characters who take on a life of their own and start to push you around. They start to tell you what they like, what they don't like, what they're going to say. They surprise you and you want that. You want them to come alive. And at that point, it's no longer a question of autobiography, it's a fictional story.
A
Diane, what questions did you have before taking on this project?
C
Many. I remember reading the script and being quite taken aback by how, in a way, it felt different for a David Cronenberg film, even though all the themes that we know about his films are in there. I've been a fan of his work since I can remember, and so the opportunity to possibly get to work with him wasn't lost on me. But I remember meeting in Paris, and I didn't know that this was partly, partially based on his own experiences through the loss of his wife.
A
So.
C
So we met, and he sort of informed me of that. And so everything was different than what I thought. And I remember talking and talking for quite some time, few hours, and, yeah, just walking away with this sense of, wow, this is very personal. It feels very emotional and yet very uncomfortable as well, because we are uncomfortable with themes of death and bodies and. Yeah.
A
Was it emotional for you in making the film?
B
Once I'm making the film, it's not emotional. It's. It's emotional in a cinematic way. In other words, you are a filmmaker. You're a craftsperson, and it's the craft of filmmaking. So on the set, I'm. It's not like I'm sobbing through every scene. That reminds me of scenes that happen. It's. On the contrary, it's. I'm thinking about lighting, about camera movement, about, you know, the act and their dialogue. And that's a good thing. I mean, you need distance. You can't be wallowing in it and make, I think, great art at the same time. You need a sense of distance. So it really gets emotional first time you have a screening. You know, when we screened it at Cannes, I mean, that was pretty emotional because suddenly it's a movie and it touches you.
A
Directors always tell me that they are. Their job is to make decisions. That director's job is to make decisions. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. What was a decision that you made on this film that turned out to be really important?
B
Well, casting. I mean, really, it's a part of directing that is not usually addressed in film schools and so on. But a huge part of directing is done before you're making the movie. And it's casting. And when you have someone like Diane, who really is a fabulous actress, it takes a huge burden off you because it's her reaction to the characters, her reactions to the dialogue. I try not to direct very much, and I think Diane's eyes just got huge. Yeah, it's true.
C
It is true. You know, it's so funny because. I mean, funny as an actor, before you meet a director, you have all these ideas of what they're gonna be like, and especially when you know a director really well.
B
Sure.
C
And his films, you know, have a certain style. They're all different, but they have similar. Similar things throughout them. And so to me, I thought, oh, you know, David is going to be this cold, very precise, very demanding alien that I'm going to meet, and he's like the opposite of all of that. So just that took me aback. And then, yeah, he couldn't be lovelier. And he just. What's lovely about it is that he trusts you. He expects you to be prepared and ready, but it's a collaboration. He trusts that you know what you're doing, and he helps you get that done. But he steps back, like you said.
B
Yeah.
A
My guests are writer and director David Cronenberg and actor Diane Kruger. Were talking about their new movie, the Shrouds. So, Diane, you play three different characters in this film. You play Cars dead wife Becca. You play her sister Terry, an AI named Honey. How did you think about each of these characters as separate people, but also separate people who are connected to one another?
C
Yeah, it took me a minute to figure it out. Thankfully, David had very clear ideas, and he told me a lot about not just the people that inspired those characters, but just in general, what he expected me to do. I had a lot of fun with Terry. You know, playing a dog groomer and just being this slightly cynical person in life was a lot of fun. Becca, you know, she's a very. She's sick. So you see her in various degrees of her illness taking over. They are scenes of great tenderness and emotion and in a way, very lovely scenes to play because you feel a lot of stuff and, yeah, I felt I loved her. And then, yeah, buddy, Honey was me in a suit and being silly.
B
Really.
C
I had so much fun.
B
Yeah. I mean, she's in a motion capture suit in a sort of empty warehouse with 14 cameras around. So it's a different kind of acting, but it's still acting.
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
A
David. In one of the first scenes in the film, a dentist tells Karsh, who's in a chair, that his teeth are rotting. And there's a sort of a darkly funny moment when he asks if he wants JPEG of the picture. At least I kind of laughed when I heard that. I'm like, just ask this man, does he want JPEGs of his dead wife's teeth? When you were writing the script, what was the experience like to write funny, dark, funny lines all while attending to a very serious subject of grief?
B
To me, there's no difference. I mean, the line was, grief is rotting your teeth. And that was the first line that I thought of, the first line of dialogue that I thought of for the movie. And it actually set up the whole movie for me, I must say. But all of my movies are funny. I mean, I know they're considered to be dark and horrific and this and that, but they're also very funny. And it's like life. I mean, I don't know how you could get through life itself without humor. I think we have. Humans have evolved a sense of humor in order to deal with what they're with, the rest of the stuff that their brains are doing, you know, their understanding of life and death and all of that.
A
Do different audiences experience it different ways?
B
Definitely, yeah. Yeah. And you accept that as a. As a filmmaker? I mean, you. You look forward to experiencing it. For example, our Cannes Film Festival screening, there were not a lot of laughs, you know, and it's partly because the Cannes Festival audience is a sort of odd one because it's partly distributors, partly industry people, and then some locals. And I think they also thought, well, it's about grief and loss and death. And maybe we shouldn't laugh because there's a director in his tuxedo. How can we laugh at him? Then A screening in Toronto. Wall to all laughter. Because this is a Toronto movie screening in New York Film Festival. Wall to all laughter. Which, to me, is correct. That's the right response.
A
Do you agree that it should be laughing in this movie as well?
C
Yeah, I mean, there's definitely funny moments in this. I've seen it a few times. And it, to be honest, gets funnier the more I watch it. Because I guess, as you said, I let go a little bit of everything else that's going on. But I will definitely say that when I first watched, had a very strong impact on me. Just about, like, the ending and. Whoa. I'd never really seen a film like this. And I was equally disturbed and amused. But also I felt really bad about death and all these questions that just, like, you know, I gotta do something. It's my time soon. And as time has passed, I was just saying to David, it has really stuck with me. And it evolves, like, now that I. When I watch it, I see so much beauty and so much love, and I see the absurdity and the AI thing. And it's just. There's so much in this film that I think a lot of people can appreciate.
A
We're gonna play a clip from the Shrouds. It's gonna be when Karsh, he's just starting to enter the dating world again. And he's deciding to tell his sister in law Terry about it. You wanna set us up a little bit?
C
I'm sorry, say that again.
A
What's going on with Karsh and Terry? It's when he's first telling her about.
C
Going on a date. Oh, yes. So Karsh is, you know, trying somehow to move on, find love again or at least date. And so he goes on this date with this lady and his first date, he takes her to the graveyard where his wife's buried and is telling her about the shrouds technology. And yeah, it doesn't go so great.
A
Let's listen to this clip from the Shrouds.
C
Another bad date last night. She put off by your desperation like the last one.
B
I'm out of practice. It's been decades since I had to seduce a woman. I'm never really sure whether I'm flirting or not.
C
That's what you get for having had a successful marriage. I don't have that problem.
B
Should I give up trying to find a girlfriend or should I just sink gracefully into terminal asexuality?
C
You'll never replace Becca.
B
I'm not trying to.
A
Meanwhile, she's just sort of grooming a dog.
C
Yeah.
A
As they're talking about this, why does Karsh decide it's time to date?
B
I think it's just really the essence, you know, the life force in general. You know, he's a high tech entrepreneur and he thinks in terms of high tech solutions to everything, including his grief. But I think he comes to a point where he realizes that that can only go so far to providing a life for you. He's still a relatively young man and he. It's just life force that finally says to him, okay, it's time, you know, Cece, if you can fashion a life with another woman.
A
Meanwhile he develops this technology, these shrouds, which you can wrap someone in. What kind of research did you do into burial practices to help you move this story along with the idea of shrouds being a big part of it?
B
Well, I originally was thinking of this movie as perhaps being the beginning of a series. And I thought that because burial practices vary so hugely from culture to culture and some are quite strange and interesting that it's always involving economics and politics and religion and all kinds of things that you could really get quite deeply into it if you were this entrepreneur and you were trying to establish these strange sort of. He calls it the religion of tech, you know, high tech. To go to a Catholic country or a Muslim country and try to establish these strange kind of high tech cemeteries. So you'd run into a lot of interesting people and situations. So that. That, you know, it's. So I did do a lot of research because of that and it feel. You can feel it in the movie. I mean, it's alluded to often, but we don't go to these other countries. But the. The feeling that that will happen, that he will try to expand his empire of high tech cemeteries is there without.
A
Giving too much away. Terry and Karsh, your character, Terry and Karsh, they start to. They take their relationship to a new level. We'll just say that much. What do you think is drawing them together?
C
The sister, you know, and his wife. And I think that's sort of the guiding pose throughout the film is that the ghost of Becca is very much there. No matter where he turns, no matter how much he would like to move on or find love again, he can't escape her and everything. And everybody has to measure up to that, I guess, to a certain extent, at least that's how I saw it. So for her, it's great loss too. She lost her sister. There was rivalry between them, as there often are between sisters, but she loved her sister and she loved them. And she loves him in a way. I think that. And the jealousy or the idea of losing him to another woman because now he's, you know, dating in the movie is pretty sad. It's almost like death again, you know, that's very.
B
That's good. I like that interpretation. Yeah. I mean, Terry, she. That's how she can keep her sister alive is sort of to become her sister in this relationship.
A
In the film. You play Becca in these dream sequences and sometimes they're disturbing, sometimes they're heartbreaking. We see the decay of her body. How did you approach these really charged scenes, Diane?
C
I gotta be honest, all of those scenes were very difficult for me to play. I don't often do a lot of nude scenes. It's not my. Not that I'm a prude. I just don't find them necessary often. And I don't find them appealing often as a viewer, you know, so, yeah, so I felt very vulnerable. I have to be honest. Honest. Plus the added, you know, losing an arm, being in the illness of it all was. Wasn't easy, you know, so that combined with being nude and then having to play these very emotionally charged scenes on top of it, they were very sad. I felt her presence very much and I felt David very much. And I felt like I Was treating. I had to treat lightly with how I treated her because I loved her so much, you know, I loved their relationship so much.
A
It was a heartbreaking scene when her hip cracks as her husband is cradling her. That was.
C
Oh yeah, it was like. I remember reading it the first time and like. Yeah, it's just so, you know, the need to be held and to be touched, no matter what's going on, how old you are, how sick you are. It just really hit me.
A
David, what did you want to evoke with these sequences with Becca?
B
I didn't really want to do sort of the traditional flashback to happy times, you know, when you went to that spa in Norway and when you had the kids birthday party and stuff like that. I really thought it would be. Karsh would be focusing on the end of their relationship and the pain of the relationship. And yes, he's totally body focused. But of course when somebody is sick like that, their body becomes the focus of an entire family. For example, everybody's worried about the doctor, the chemotherapist, the radiologist and what they said about the body and so on. So I was really trying to combine all those things and this sort of kind of nightmare moments when the couple have to deal with her sickness, which is very physical, would involve some amputations and so on. And at the same time deal with their continuing love and passion, physical passion for each other. So that basically was my approach to Becca's sickness.
A
We should also add there's a degree of paranoia in this film. People have different ideas about why certain people died. David, why did you want to add paranoia to the mix?
B
Because it has been my observation that that often happens when there's a sickness like this. Because what happens to Becca is basically impossible. I mean, it's unacceptable, it's unbearable. And it's also, it seems random and without meaning. And we also have evolved to look for meaning everywhere. And the death, the sort of random death of someone in the family who's been hit by a car or run over or dies of a disease very young, it's too random to accept. And so one of the ways that you can create meaning is through a conspiracy theory. The doctors did not take care of her well enough. They used the wrong chemotherapy. We should have taken her to some other clinic or perhaps the doctors were actually experimenting on her. What if that's possible? You know, so that that strangely gives you. Empowers you. Instead of being feeling helpless and with no meaning in your life, suddenly you. You can see through what's really the facade and see what's really happening. It empowers you. You feel very special. And I've actually seen that happen in situations like that over the years. So I was basically. I don't see that too much in movies, but I have seen it in life.
A
It's so interesting because our next guest is. It's called the Good Death is her book. And she was a registered nurse who started a sort of a death Doula institute to teach people about how to have a good death.
B
Yeah. Yeah.
A
It's really interesting to hear you say that.
B
Yeah. Well, a good conspiracy can help you through death.
A
Diane, how has this change the way.
C
You think about death? Oh, my gosh, I don't know. It's.
A
Or life. You could say that about life, too.
C
Yeah. You know, in a way, it's made me hopeful to be more aware of it, to say that while I am here, we should make the most of not just the spiritual idea of being in love, but also the physicality of it, to be present, to enjoy the time that is left. One of the lines that broke me the most in this film is when Karsh says, you know, I just couldn't. I just wanted to be in there. It was. It seemed so unfair that she would be alone in death. And that really struck me. And so I'm. I hear that. And I try to figure out how that. How that could be avoided, you know, if you found. If you're so lucky to find a person that you love, you know, whatever that means.
A
David, right now on the Criterion channel, there's your film streaming going all the way back to 1969 stereo. How do you hope your films resonate with people who may be discovering your work for the first time?
B
I have totally let go of that process, yes. Really, I don't care. I mean, you care, but I can't really care about it. I can't really control it, and I'm not really worrying about it. I have to say, when people say, you know, it's a very French thing, for example, to say, monsieur Cronenberg, how do you think your legacy will affect, you know. And I say, I can't, you know, after I'm dead, I'm not going to worry about my legacy, frankly.
A
That was my conversation with writer and director David Cronenberg and actor Diane Kruger. Their film the Shrouds is available to stream now on the Criterion Channel. And now a next level moment from ATT Business. Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep Day. You've got at and T5G, so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding and International Sleep Day is tomorrow. Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you. AT&T5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere. Learn more@att.com 5G Network.
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Podcast: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guests: David Cronenberg (B, Writer/Director), Diane Kruger (C, Actor)
Date: August 28, 2025
This episode of All Of It features an in-depth conversation with filmmaker David Cronenberg and actress Diane Kruger about their new film The Shrouds, now streaming on the Criterion Channel. The discussion covers the film’s origins in personal grief, its innovative blending of technology and mourning, dark humor, acting challenges, and broader questions about death, legacy, and moving on.
"Certainly I knew that I felt I had to do something to address the loss of my wife of 43 years. But as soon as you start to write, it becomes fiction."
— David Cronenberg [01:46]
"I remember reading the script and being quite taken aback by how, in a way, it felt different for a David Cronenberg film...I walked away with this sense of, wow, this is very personal. It feels very emotional and yet very uncomfortable as well, because we are uncomfortable with themes of death and bodies."
— Diane Kruger [02:41–03:45]
"I had so much fun. I was in a motion capture suit in a sort of empty warehouse with 14 cameras around. So it's a different kind of acting, but it's still acting."
— Diane Kruger [07:37–07:48]
"I try not to direct very much...he trusts you. He expects you to be prepared and ready, but it's a collaboration. He trusts that you know what you're doing, and he helps you get that done."
— Diane Kruger [05:39]
"Grief is rotting your teeth. That was the first line of dialogue that I thought of for the movie... I know [my films] are considered to be dark and horrific...but they're also very funny. And it's like life. I mean, I don't know how you could get through life itself without humor."
— David Cronenberg [08:18]
"Screening in New York Film Festival, wall to wall laughter. Which, to me, is correct. That's the right response."
— David Cronenberg [09:01]
"He's a high tech entrepreneur and he thinks in terms of high tech solutions to everything, including his grief. But I think he comes to a point where he realizes that that can only go so far to providing a life for you."
— David Cronenberg [12:12]
"The ghost of Becca is very much there. No matter where he turns, no matter how much he would like to move on or find love again, he can't escape her... so for [Terry], it's great loss too."
— Diane Kruger [14:23–15:20]
"I have to be honest...I felt very vulnerable. I have to be honest. Honest. Plus the added, you know, losing an arm, being in the illness of it all was. Wasn't easy..."
— Diane Kruger [15:46]
"I really thought it would be. Karsh would be focusing on the end of their relationship and the pain of the relationship...their body becomes the focus of an entire family."
— David Cronenberg [17:13]
"It's also, it seems random and without meaning. And we also have evolved to look for meaning everywhere. And the death... it's too random to accept. And so one of the ways that you can create meaning is through a conspiracy theory."
— David Cronenberg [18:35]
"...to be more aware of it, to say that while I am here, we should make the most of not just the spiritual idea of being in love, but also the physicality of it, to be present, to enjoy the time that is left."
— Diane Kruger [20:31]
"After I'm dead, I'm not going to worry about my legacy, frankly."
— David Cronenberg [21:33]
On writing and grief:
"As soon as you start to write, it becomes fiction...you are creating fictional characters who take on a life of their own and start to push you around. They surprise you, and you want that."
— David Cronenberg [01:46]
On acting for Cronenberg:
"He trusts you. He expects you to be prepared and ready, but it's a collaboration. He trusts that you know what you're doing, and he helps you get that done. But he steps back, like you said."
— Diane Kruger [05:39]
On humor and seriousness:
"All of my movies are funny. I mean, I know they're considered to be dark and horrific...but they're also very funny. And it's like life."
— David Cronenberg [08:18]
Kruger on the emotional impact:
"I was equally disturbed and amused. But also I felt really bad about death and all these questions...as time has passed...it evolves, like, now...I see so much beauty and so much love, and I see the absurdity and the AI thing. And it's just. There's so much in this film."
— Diane Kruger [09:52–10:50]
On vulnerability and loss:
"I had to treat lightly with how I treated her because I loved her so much, you know, I loved their relationship so much."
— Diane Kruger [16:44]
This thoughtful interview with David Cronenberg and Diane Kruger illuminates how personal grief, technology, and the difficulties of moving on intersect in The Shrouds. Ranging from the practicalities of filmmaking to the metaphysical questions of death, legacy, and love, the conversation offers both heartfelt wisdom and memorable wit. The Shrouds is revealed as a complex meditation on mortality, humor, and the human need to create meaning—even, or especially, amid loss.