David Koepp's Ghost Story Told From the Ghost's POV

Summary

Podcast Summary: "David Koepp's Ghost Story Told From the Ghost's POV" – All Of It, Hosted by Alison Stewart

Release Date: January 28, 2025
Duration: Approximately 25 minutes

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Introduction to the Episode

Alison Stewart opens the episode of "All Of It", WNYC's cultural exploration show, by outlining the day’s lineup focused on powerful women in music. However, the primary feature of the episode delves into the new film "Presence," a haunted family drama uniquely narrated from the ghost's perspective. Stewart introduces the guests: David Koepp, the acclaimed screenwriter known for hits like Jurassic Park and Mission Impossible, and Kalina Liang, the lead actress portraying Chloe in "Presence."

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Overview of "Presence"

"Presence" is described as a "New York Times critic's pick," centering on a family that moves into a seemingly perfect home, only to discover it is haunted by an unseen presence. The film explores the complex dynamics within the family, highlighting secrets and underlying resentments. The story is uniquely told from the ghost’s point of view, employing the camera as the ghost itself, which presents a fresh narrative style.

Notable Quote:

Cristina De Rossi, Anthropologist at Barnet and Southgate College, London:
"Culture encompasses religion, food, what we wear, how we wear it, our language, marriage, music, what we believe is right or wrong, how we sit at the table, how we greet visitors, how we behave with loved ones, and a million other things."

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Interview with David Koepp: Crafting a Ghost Story

Initial Inspiration and Conceptualization

David Koepp shares that the inspiration for "Presence" originated from a discussion with director Steven Soderbergh, who envisioned a narrative entirely from a ghost’s perspective. Koepp emphasizes his affinity for “aesthetic concepts that restrain you,” likening "Presence" to his previous work such as Panic Room, which is confined largely to a single location.

Notable Quote:

David Koepp [04:13]:
"It's always binary. For me. It's a one or a zero. You know, you either hear an idea or you have an idea, and either your mind swims with possibilities or it's kind of inert and it doesn't."

Writing Under Constraints

Koepp discusses the unique challenges of writing "Presence," noting that the ghost, represented by the camera, acts as the fifth character in a story primarily focused on four family members. This constraint required innovative storytelling techniques, such as ensuring each scene could be captured in a single shot without traditional close-ups.

Character Development and Themes

Koepp elaborates on the evolution of the ghost’s character—from a "frightened, uneasy presence" to a more "confident" entity capable of influencing events. He also touches upon the film’s exploration of trauma, suggesting that traumatic experiences heighten one's sensitivity to the supernatural.

Notable Quote:

David Koepp [12:06]:
"I think there's a reason that it's a really durable means of storytelling because they're essentially hopeful to have a ghost story. The very premise means that there's an afterlife. Something comes beyond. So that's hopeful, and we're drawn to them."

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Conversation with Kalina Liang: Bringing Chloe to Life

First Impressions and Preparation

Kalina Liang reflects on her initial reaction to the script, expressing excitement and intrigue upon reading it multiple times. To authentically portray Chloe, a character grappling with loss and trauma, Liang engaged in journaling from Chloe’s perspective, immersing herself deeply in the role to deliver a genuine performance.

Notable Quote:

Kalina Liang [08:22]:
"I really wanted to show this character as raw and as authentically as I could. So I actually did a lot of journaling as the character."

Navigating Interactions with a Difficult Sibling

Liang discusses her approach to acting opposite a challenging character like Tyler, the eldest son, portrayed as a misunderstood athlete with underlying rage. She describes a pivotal moment where her character, Chloe, gains sympathy for Tyler, illustrating her growth and the complexity of their relationship.

Notable Quote:

Kalina Liang [10:43]:
"For Chloe, she's going through such a time of immense pain and loss that she has nothing to turn to. When Ryan comes along and is willing to listen to her, she immediately latched onto him because she was desperate for some sort of human connection."

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Exploring Themes: Trauma and the Supernatural

The discussion delves into how "Presence" uses the supernatural as a metaphor for trauma. Koepp explains that trauma can open individuals to perceiving things beyond the ordinary, a concept embodied by Chloe's ability to sense the ghost due to her traumatic experiences.

Notable Quote:

David Koepp [12:06]:
"I was working on this idea I had that it's trauma. Because I know in my own life, during periods that I would describe as traumatic, I've felt more open to people around me and maybe had a little easier time perceiving their own difficulties or their own pain."

---

Behind the Scenes: Filming During the Strikes

Alison Stewart probes into the challenges faced during the production of "Presence," particularly filming amidst the writer’s and actor’s strikes. Koepp recounts the difficulty of finalizing the script right before the strikes, leading to his absence during the shooting process. Despite this, he maintains that the strong collaborative foundation with Soderbergh ensured the film's success.

Notable Quote:

David Koepp [19:46]:
"It was a bummer because you work hard on something and you're collaborating and you do a few drafts. And I really wanted to be a part of it to watch and, you know, talk to actors and watch how they did this remarkable thing."

Innovative Filmmaking Techniques

The use of a camera strapped to the actor to represent the ghost posed unique creative challenges, particularly the absence of traditional close-ups and the requirement for continuous single shots. Kalina Liang praises this approach, likening it to “theater on screen” and highlighting the liberating experience it offered actors to perform truthfully and spontaneously.

Notable Quote:

Kalina Liang [22:14]:
"I could just forget about everything and live in this world and exist as the character and just respond so truthfully and spontaneously and authentically with the cast in the room or the presence, which is Steven. And that feeling is magical."

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Final Thoughts and Future Prospects

As the conversation winds down, Koepp hints at the film's depth, suggesting that understanding "Presence" fully may require multiple viewings. He also briefly mentions his previous collaboration with Soderbergh on "Black Bag," emphasizing their long-standing creative partnership.

Kalina Liang expresses excitement for audiences to experience "Presence" and engage with its intricate storytelling.

Notable Quote:

David Koepp [23:24]:
"I do think it's clear. And I'm curious after we go off to see what your people in your office thought."

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Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by thanking her guests, David Koepp and Kalina Liang, for their insightful discussion about "Presence." The episode offers listeners an in-depth look into the creative process behind a film that redefines the traditional ghost story by narrating it from the spectral viewpoint, enriched by themes of trauma, family dynamics, and innovative filmmaking techniques.

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Key Takeaways:

• "Presence" stands out as a ghost story told from the ghost’s perspective, utilizing the camera as the unseen protagonist.
• David Koepp emphasizes the importance of constraints in fostering creativity, particularly in crafting a narrative confined to a single location and a continuous shot format.
• Kalina Liang highlights the emotional depth required to portray a character dealing with trauma and the unique challenges of acting within the film’s innovative structure.
• The film explores deep themes of trauma, isolation, and familial relationships, making it a compelling addition to the horror and drama genres.
• Steven Soderbergh’s direction played a crucial role in creating the film's atmosphere of dread, essential for the story's impact.

For those interested in contemporary storytelling that pushes the boundaries of traditional genres, "Presence" offers a nuanced and emotionally resonant experience.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. Coming up today we have a show full of powerful women in music. Nico Case joins me in studio to discuss her memoir the Harder I Fight, the More I Love youe. Molly Obamzewin is here to talk about composing the score for the Oscar nominated documentary Sugar Cane. And she'll perform live over in WNYC Studio 5 plus we'll talk about the women who made rock in the 1990s and what their legacy is with Tanya Pearson, the author of the new book Pretend We're Dead, as well as Tanya Donnelly, one of the co founders of the band Throwing Muses. That's the plan. But let's get this hour started with a ghost story. In the new film Presence, the first thing we notice is a beautiful empty house with gleaming floors. The camera swoops in and out of the rooms and lands on a frazzled realtor setting up for a visit from an interested family. It's clear right away from the camera movements and vantage point that this story is being told by an invisible protagonist. A ghost, a presence living in the house. The family anchored by a driven mom and an easygoing dad. They move into the beautiful home. They say they want a design desirable school district for the success of the older brother and to start over for the youngest sister who we sensed has endured something traumatic. Things don't get much better once the family moves in. The ghost quickly focuses on the daughter Chloe, but also watches everyone. From time to time we see them in their individual private moments where it's obvious everyone has a secret and together where it's also obvious there's a lot of resentment. Let's listen to a scene from a family dinner.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Unusual here. Do you mean like a.

[Kalina Liang]

A presence?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

No. Have you?

[Kalina Liang]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Can you elaborate?

[Kalina Liang]

I'm not sure I want to.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Okay, maybe you. Maybe you and me talk later.

[Kalina Liang]

At first I just sensed it. And then things moved.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Moved?

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Yes.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What things?

[Kalina Liang]

A lot of things. I saw it.

[Alison Stewart]

You saw it? You saw things move?

[Kalina Liang]

I saw the aftermath. And there's a feeling I get. And sometimes it's really, really strong.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What feeling?

[Kalina Liang]

Athosagorophobia.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I don't think I know that word. What does that mean?

[Kalina Liang]

It's the fear of being forgotten or ignored. And I can feel it. It's here in the house.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Oh, for Christ's sake.

[David Koepp]

Seriously, what the.

[Alison Stewart]

Whoa.

[David Koepp]

I get it that you guys have to listen to this, but I don't.

[Alison Stewart]

Presence is a New York Times critics pick. Chloe is played by Kalina Liang and she's with us via Zoom. Hi, Kalina.

[Kalina Liang]

Hi.

[Alison Stewart]

I also have with us screenwriter David Koepp is in studio. Nice to meet you, David.

[David Koepp]

Nice to meet you.

[Alison Stewart]

So, David, you've written scripts for the Panic Room, Jurassic Park, Mission Impossible. What does a project need for you to sign on?

[David Koepp]

It's always binary. For me. It's a one or a zero. You know, you either you hear an idea or you have an idea, and either your mind swims with possibilities or it's kind of inert and it doesn't. And there's a 24 hour test. If the next day you have more and it keeps going, then you should probably keep it in mind. And if you don't, you better run away from it quickly because it's not going to go anywhere.

[Alison Stewart]

How was this idea pitched to you?

[David Koepp]

Stephen and I had just had done a movie a few years ago called Kimmy and had a great time. We'd been friends for like 30 years. That was the first time we'd worked together. And he told me over, he said, I want to do a movie completely from the point of view of a ghost. And that was kind of all he had. And I love an aesthetic concept that restrains you. You mentioned Panic Room, which is all in one house and a lot of it in one room. And I love those. I call it a bottle because it's something to contain your story. And I think when you have that kind of limitation, it actually forces you into a lot more creative ideas.

[Alison Stewart]

And Steven Soderbergh is who we're talking about, by the way. Steven Soderbergh.

[David Koepp]

Yes, indeed.

[Alison Stewart]

Kalina, what was your first impression of the script and of the story?

[Kalina Liang]

I was completely taken aback, I guess, in the best way. When I first read it, I was like, okay, I have no idea how this is gonna work, but I am absolutely just intrigued and just so curious that right after I read it for the first time, I immediately had to go back and read it for a second time. And then I was just excited. I was like, wow, I've never read anything like this before. I don't think anything like this has been done. And I was just so excited to bring it to life and to see how it was gonna all look.

[Alison Stewart]

What were some of the things you had to think about differently while you were writing this script, David?

[David Koepp]

Well, because it's all from. I went into this thinking, okay, it's a four character piece. Mother, father, daughter, son. And as soon as I started typing, I realized, no, no, no, this is a five character piece. The fifth character is played by the camera. So I have to write scenes. That character is present in every scene. And you see there's an evolution over the course of the film. The presence at first is very tentative, unsure, confused, frightened, often. And so that has to be reflected in the camera movements and the way you write that into the script. And so that's, that's a constraint, but cool. The other one was every scene has to be written so that it can be shot as a oner. It can be shot in one shot. There's no cutting, there's no inner cutting. There's no going to close ups. If you need a reason to look at the orange juice glass closely, you have to come up with a reason why the presence would do that and that. Then I got very, after initially thinking, how am I going to do this? I started to have a great time. And like the clip from the dinner scene you played, you know, I'm a writer, I love to write dialogue. And to have a bunch of people sitting around arguing over dinner is my dream. And then it demands a lot from the actors. You have to do that in one go. And everybody's got to be right on their game.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you give the presence, did you give it characteristics?

[David Koepp]

Yes, and they, they evolve as the, as the movie goes on. I think that initially, you see in that opening shot you referenced, it ends with the presence retreating into a closet.

[Alison Stewart]

Likes the closets.

[David Koepp]

Yeah, it's safe space and that's where it goes. So it's a very. It's a frightened, uneasy presence at the beginning. And you see those characteristics change as it becomes more confident and realizes, oh, I can actually maybe influence events a little bit. And then it grows into something about an hour in, it has an outburst of rage and you realize, oh, this thing's. This is changing.

[Alison Stewart]

Kalina, where is Chloe? When we meet her.

[Kalina Liang]

I'm not really sure she even knows herself. I think she's in this place of loss and trauma and just completely, I think, alone. You know, she doesn't have that support from her family or Friends and she's just trying to navigate this world in her life, you know, being the 16 year old teenager. And I think she's just very lost when we first meet her.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. You spend a lot of time alone in this film. How did you prepare for the role, which is a lot of time alone in the room.

[Kalina Liang]

I really wanted to show this character as raw and as authentically as I could. So I actually did a lot of journaling as the character. So I lived a lot of that in my head. So before we go for a scene, I would be on my bed. I actually carried this little mini journal with me at all times and I would just be writing in it. And then as soon as Steven would be like, okay, we're ready to go, I'd just slide it under the blanket. But I would create this world for myself and for Chloe. So I'm fully immersed so that when we go, I'm just able to kind of live and exist as the character and react spontaneously and authentically with either the presence or, you know, other cast members.

[Alison Stewart]

David Tyler's the eldest son, seemingly a golden child. He's kind of terrible.

[David Koepp]

There's a lot, there's a lot he.

[Alison Stewart]

Needs to work on, a lot he needs to work on said by a parent. What is it that he sort of has rage about? Why is he angry?

[David Koepp]

I think there's. He's. He's a very successful athlete, he's a swimmer. So there's a lot of energy coming out of him that he can't necessarily doesn't know what to do with. I think that the interesting dynamic in the family. I wanted to write something where the identifications between parents and children were sort of cross genders. And so he has a lot in common with his mom, played by Lucy Liu, who's a very hard driving person, probably with very successful type A A And I think that her. That energy and that desperation to succeed, those come from. Those are hard to control. Those are. And they come from kind of unpleasant places inside and they both share that. Whereas the dad played by Chris Sullivan and Kalina's character are. There's a gentler, more open to the universe kind of feeling about them. And I think their identification is with each other. So Tyler's rage. You know what? I don't think Tyler understands it. I think Tyler has something bur that he doesn't get and he doesn't know what to do with it.

[Alison Stewart]

Kalina, how do you play against a character that is so difficult? That is what Tyler is about.

[Kalina Liang]

I think at first, like Chloe and I guess me as the actor playing it, I was on this kind of defense or trying to just protect myself, prioritizing myself. And I think there's actually that one scene where we're out on the porch where I think for Chloe, she has this type of breakthrough where she sees that Tyler is actually just so lost and so hurt and confused in his own way that he doesn't know how it's manifesting within. Within himself, and which is why it's all coming out like that. And I think at that moment, she actually felt sympathy for him. And that was a massive switch for me and my character in that moment. And it was nice because it was shot chronologically. You know, I was able to experience that and keep going and play with that. But, yeah, it's very interesting. I think for Chloe, she's quite mature for her age. And, you know, it's like what David said with my character and Chris's character, like, we're just a little bit more open to the universe.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm joined by screenwriter David Koepp and actor Kalina Liang from the new film Presence, which is a haunted family drama told from the ghost point of view. It's in theaters now. David, several people feel the spirit, and then there's those who don't as well. What does that symbolize?

[David Koepp]

Well, I think I've written a few ghost stories over the years, and I love them. And I think there's a reason that it's a really durable means of storytelling, because they're essentially hopeful to have a ghost story. The very premise means that there's an afterlife. Something comes beyond. So that's hopeful, and we're drawn to them. But I think that every time you tell a ghost story, it's on you to think of a new reason, a new rule. Why can we see it? Why do we sense this? Why? What is it about a particular character that has that ability? And I was working on this idea I had that it's trauma. Because I know in my own life, during periods that I would describe as traumatic, I've felt more open to people around me and maybe had a little easier time perceiving their own difficulties or their own pain. And I wondered, if a person goes through trauma, does that open you up to sense other things that you couldn't sense before? And Kalina's character, Chloe, is a bit of an open wound. She's been through this horrific experience, and so she is open to that, to the universe as a character explains it. And then near the end of the movie, and this is a spoiler, but another character has experienced trauma, and it is they who now are able to perceive things they couldn't before. And I thought that. I think. I thought that was an interesting new approach.

[Alison Stewart]

Kalina, Chloe feels the spirit, the presence. What is her relationship with this ghost?

[Kalina Liang]

I think in the beginning, she's almost desperate to connect with the presence. You know, not once was she scared. If anything, it provided her with a sense of relief and comfort because she's so isolated, because there's nothing in no one in her life that can give her any sort of support. And I think she. She had this hope also that it may have been someone that she wanted it to be, you know, without spoiling anything. But, yeah, she's very intrigued and she's very drawn to it. And then I think as the story moves on, it kind of becomes like this part of routine for her to just, like, check in and see if it's still there. And then I think she kind of forgets about it and then comes back. But I definitely. In the beginning, there was never a sense of fear. It was. It was comfort and release. Yeah.

[David Koepp]

An emotion. It's a very. It's a surprisingly emotional movie. I think there's a moment in it when there's a psychic character who just looks at Kalina's character and says, I'm sorry that you suffer, which is so direct. And she just intuits and felt it, and it's kind. And there's two things in movies that always make me cry. Tap dancing and kindness. And I couldn't figure out how to get tap dancing in this, so I went with the other one.

[Alison Stewart]

We'll have more about the film presence after a quick break.

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[Alison Stewart]

You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm joined by screenwriter David Koepp and actor Kalina Leung about the new film Presence, which is about a haunted family drama told from the ghost point of view. It's in theaters now. There's a feeling from the beginning, David, that something bad has happened or something bad is going to happen. How do you build that kind of. Of dread, that sense that this is coming my way and I don't know what it is?

[David Koepp]

Ooh, dread is exactly the right word. You build it a bit in the screenplay, obviously, the kind of events you lay out. But creating an atmosphere is 95% the director's job. And this movie, I knew from the beginning, and I think I said to Stephen, this will rise and fall on whether or not you can create this atmosphere of dread. The exact word we used is the one you chose. And, boy, did he create an atmosphere of dread. It's a combination of elements. It's, of course, the story you tell, but even more, it's how you tell it. The house he chose, the level of light, the level of authenticity he could create.

[Alison Stewart]

And he was a cinematographer as well.

[David Koepp]

Yes. He had the camera strapped to his chest the entire film and his little grippy socks that he would run up and down the stairs and pray not to fall. And. And then can the actors create a believable family? All those elements go into it.

[Alison Stewart]

One character which is scarier than the ghost is Ryan Kalina. We get a sense from both siblings that he might be creepy, but they still fall for his charm. Why do you think she falls for his charm, Chloe?

[Kalina Liang]

Well, again, I think for her, she is going through such, like, a time of immense pain and loss that she. She has nothing to turn to. And I think in the beginning it was like this presence, and she still is trying to reach out to the presence and trying to convince everyone around her that it is something. But because she feels so isolated, no one sees her, right? No one. No one believes what she's saying. So then when Ryan, this character, comes along and is willing to listen to her, like, which is the bare minimum, immediately she's she's locked in because she's just so desperate for some sort of human connection. And obviously she's too young or naive to understand what's right or wrong. And at that state, you can't make good decisions. But I think that's why she immediately latched onto him, because it was someone who was willing to listen, David.

[Alison Stewart]

And please correct me if I'm wrong, Steven Soderbergh got a waiver to film because it happened during the writers strike.

[David Koepp]

Right. And the actors strike.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, boy, it was tough.

[David Koepp]

I threw this over the fence a few days before the writers strike started.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, what did that feel like?

[David Koepp]

It was a bummer because you work hard on something and you're collaborating and you do a few drafts. And I really wanted to be a part of it to watch and, you know, talk to actors and watch how they did this. This remarkable thing. And I couldn't. I was just completely absent. I didn't meet Collina until we showed the finished film at a. At a festival.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, wow. Well, you had an opportunity to talk to Steven Soderbergh about what you wanted.

[David Koepp]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you tell him?

[David Koepp]

I told him exactly how to do everything, and he followed my instructions to the letter. We had talked about it enough to that point, from idea through the initial story outlines, to several drafts of the script. So we were very much on the same page. And I think we both had the same sense of it. But once a movie, it wouldn't actually have mattered that much if I'd been around, because once a movie starts, I tend to stay away. I think if I'm just the writer, if I'm directing it, obviously, but the director has to interpret your script, and the actors have to feel like the writer's not there staring at them, you know, in case they say the line wrong. So I've found. And Kalina, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sometimes it's a bummer to have the writer there. Doesn't it feel like somebody's watching you? I mean.

[Kalina Liang]

Yeah, I guess there's that, like, sense of, like, pressure. I know what you mean, but personally, I kind of like it. I do know what you mean, though. If it was, like, every day 24 7, it would maybe freak me out a little bit. But I was desperate to see you. I think every day. I was asking if David was going to come in.

[Alison Stewart]

That's very sweet.

[David Koepp]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Wish I could have Kalina in the film. We talked about this earlier, but there are. There's sort of odd angles in the Film. There's no real close ups because one of the cameras. The camera's the ghost. What creative. What creative challenges did that offer you.

[Kalina Liang]

Man? It was a lot because it was like there were so many challenges because a lot of my scenes were with just me in the presence, which is, AKA Stephen and the camera. And that in itself is new, but also the fact that there is no, you know, close up coverage and everything is done in one shot. It was a complete new experience and one that I am now looking back, very grateful to have been a part of because that was just so cool. But it was so interesting. I think in the beginning I was more scared. It is only my second film.

[Alison Stewart]

Right.

[Kalina Liang]

So I was still felt very new to the industry. And Steven doesn't talk much, so he doesn't say much. When he's happy, he's like, okay, let's move on. And I'm just there like, ah, is he happy? I don't know. But then as soon as we. We tapped in and kind of just leaned into it, it was the most liberating and freeing feeling in the world. I didn't have to worry about continuity or like, anything like that. It's like as soon as the camera rolled, I could just forget about everything and live in this world and exist as the character and just respond so truthfully and spontaneously and authentically with. With the. The cast in the room or the presence, which is Steven. And that feeling is magical. And it was like theater on screen. So it's very cool. It's very liberating.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, we won't spoil the end, but we had a discussion in the office earlier. We were like, oh, yeah, we know who the ghost is. We said, but do we? I don't know, maybe. Do we? Yeah, we do. No, no, we're not. I'm not sure. Did you write it that way?

[David Koepp]

Well, I know who the ghost is.

[Alison Stewart]

All right.

[David Koepp]

Yes. And we wanted. Steven and I have slightly different viewpoints. I'm a little more popcorn than he is. He's a little more comfortable with ambiguity than I am. And I think our sensibilities meet nicely in the middle. And I felt that it's clear, it's there for you. It's certainly there if you watch it a second time. And really all paying moviegoers should probably see it seven or eight times to fully understand it, I think so. I do think it's clear. And I'm curious after we go off to see what your people in your office thought.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. I do want to ask you before you leave. You worked on Black Bag?

[David Koepp]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

You had Michael Fassbender in here and he wrote about that. Soderbergh directed.

[David Koepp]

Charming, that guy.

[Kalina Liang]

He is.

[Alison Stewart]

Can I tell you?

[David Koepp]

Oh, God. Men love.

[Alison Stewart]

He charged women in there. He charged women in here. He charged the men over there. Everybody. What was that experience like?

[David Koepp]

That was really fun. Now was the third one I'd done with Stephen Soderbergh, and it was great. That was my strike spec. During the strike, I wrote that script. And as soon as it was over, I asked Steven, what do you think of this? That was really fun. That's a very complex story. It's a spy story. Married spies. Kind of the polar opposite of this in that it's, you know, a highly produced, what I think Hollywood can do best kind of movie.

[Alison Stewart]

Kalina, what's next for you?

[Kalina Liang]

Nothing I can say at the moment, but I'm just excited for the world to see Presence and see if they know who the ghost is.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the film is Presence. My guests have been Kalina Liang and writer David Koepp. It is so nice to meet you, Kalina. It's nice. Nice to meet you, David as well.

[David Koepp]

You as well. Thanks for having us.

[Kalina Liang]

You too. Thanks for having me.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.