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- [00:00]
Dessa
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates for multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Welcome to your peloton Pilates era Built on precision, backed by results and trusted by over 2 million members. Experience instructors with true Pilates expertise, offering classes for every level from foundational to powerfully challenging. Choose from 10 to 45 minute sessions with little to no equipment, anytime, anywhere and with the cross training swivel screen, you can move seamlessly from cardio to mat press. Pilates Small moves, Big impact. Find out more@onepelaton.com Pilates big jobs don't
- [00:54]
Alison Stewart
need 10 different suppliers.
- [00:56]
Dessa
It's time for one partner for every
- [00:59]
Alison Stewart
size, finish and bulk order delivered on your schedule. The Home Depot Pro it's about time. This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My next guest is the rapper and composer Dessa. She got her start in the Minneapolis hip hop collective Doomtree, and in the years since, she's been everywhere. Musically, that is. She's performed with the Minnesota Orchestra, she's on the Hamilton Mixtape, and in the last year she's also been an artist in residence at Georgetown University. And she has a new EP out tonight. She'll be at Music hall of Williamsburg, and she's here with me now in WNYC's performance studio to preview that show and play some songs from the new ep. Hey Dessa.
- [01:53]
Dessa
Hi. Thanks for having me.
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Alison Stewart
So glad to see you. What are we going to hear first?
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Dessa
First, we're going to hear the song Camelot.
- [02:00]
Alison Stewart
All right, we'll talk about it on the other side.
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Joshua Williams
Cheap gas, broadband wheatgrass news cleanse only fans Bourgeoisie is bourgeois deux that's bourgeois me and bourgeoisieu that technocrat has a funny salute Might not meet the burden of proof but too rich to refuse a Q Fahrenheit 452 all health and wellness but just for self and the little self leads Got a moral mandate to try to get rich to stack the pancakes to back up your plate for me and my kids all fools for the pyrite they get a hole in the roof for a skylight Season recap Go get caught up now Streaming White Lotus Gaza welcome to Camelot. Don't wait to play me none of the lights turn off keeps us on the it's noisy at night but if you Nothing to hide you should sleep the room fire think tank go fish dunk tank, you're in next act Tis a sprayed sand and a flashbang and the first amendment and a burn bag can't risk it wish I could but tell you what, let me knock on wood and if the guard rails hold up like they should we should all
- [03:13]
Dessa
be double plus good welcome to Camelot.
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Joshua Williams
Don't wake the baby none of the lights tomorrow keeps us on it gets noisy at night but if you nothing to hide you should sleep through them fine. Don't look to the left don't look to the right don't look back at those behind welcome to Kamala to sleep in a band. Make a plaster cast of my conscience just for posterity all the coins in my pockets Bangin tell tale tambourine creature comforts who amongst us wouldn't want what the rich man does? But that's the the thing about the lap of luxury the lap of luxury can't stand up welcome to Caroline. Too sad to watch too cold to march we sat and talked no joke, no fun.
- [05:01]
Alison Stewart
That was Camelot from Dessa Live in WNYC Studio. The song comes from the new ep. When did you write that track?
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Dessa
Yeah, I wrote it in 2025. So, you know, I grew up in Minneapolis, and it was before the Ice Presence began in Minneapolis.
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Alison Stewart
I was wondering, did you write it because it was the way you were feeling, or did you write it for the people who needed to hear it?
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Joshua Williams
Ah.
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Dessa
You know, I haven't written too many political songs throughout my career, but I know that I don't like being lectured, and I really wanted to try to write a political song where I was a member of the group, that could use some changing too, you know, so for me, using words like I and we were really important, instead of like, let me tell you how it is and how you gotta be like, it's tough. So, yeah, I guess I did write it in response to the, you know, the news that we're all seeing and feeling a lot of times totally overwhelmed by and uncertain how to react.
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Alison Stewart
What was the hardest part of that song to write?
- [06:01]
Dessa
Ooh, you know, I was a little bit afraid just because of the way that we communicate online that including a line overtly about Gaza would be tricky. And by tricky, I mean I was afraid to read the comments. I was also afraid to read the DMs, you know, but I think for the most part, people have been really receptive.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah, well, I think the juxtaposition of White Lotus next to Gaza is really in the song. Yeah.
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Dessa
Yeah. I mean, just. Yes, exactly. And I think. Okay. I think it was in part, like, you know, when initially Trump had posted, like, an AI generated visual image of, like, the new resort that Gaza would become. And that feeling of like, you know, you're spinning out and yelling back at the radio, you know, so hope you're
- [06:48]
Alison Stewart
not yelling at us. When did you write the rest of the songs on the ep?
- [06:53]
Dessa
So I wrote them pretty quickly back to back. I'm. This is my first venture as a. Like, as a producer, you know, where I produced. Yeah. But both at both of the tracks fully with some help from friends at home, Lazer Beak and Andy Thompson. So, yeah, pretty close back to back. I went to South Africa, worked with some friends there who initially we. I had planned to tour with, but were denied visas by the. By the State Department. And so I was able to do some field recordings there of the guitar line that's featured. Yeah. In one of the tracks on the record.
- [07:22]
Alison Stewart
That's interesting. Do you usually write songs back to back like that?
- [07:25]
Dessa
I mean, I'm so slow, Alison. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, whatever you're imagining back to back, you know, spread that out over, like, many pages of the calendar.
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Alison Stewart
I'm laughing because the rest of the band is laughing as well.
- [07:38]
Dessa
I don't have to look left and right to feel them clowning me 100%. Yeah.
- [07:42]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Tessa. She has a new EP out called Tough Call Camelot. She's playing at Music hall of Williamsburg tonight. There was an essay that you wrote in Mother Jones about the protests in Minneapolis. You live there now, and there were six years between 2020 and the Black Lives Matter movement and 2026 and the ICE raids. What stood out to you between the two eras of protest? The 2020 protests and the 2026 protests?
- [08:12]
Dessa
You know, I think, to me, when you read history books and you try to, like, cut and paste yourself into a major pivot point in history, it just seems so much cleaner. Like, there are two sides, and you pick one. Reality is wildly confusing. Do you know what I mean? That's part of it. Like, information is flying left and right. You're not sure what to believe or who are your trusted sources. So for me, I think those two periods of, like, experience and now history, legitimate history, you know, in Minneapolis were really defined by the kind of connections that neighbors made. You know, so in addition to the major news sources, it's like, okay, who are the, like, local neighborhood papers? Who's the Person who's gonna run Neighborhood Watch, essentially. You know, as you probably know, Everybody's handing out 3D printed whistles. But it was, it was just as important to, like, learn the name of that lady down the hall that I've, like, lived next to for six years, but haven't ever just, like, knocked on the door. And I think making those connections are what allowed Minneapolis to resist in the way that it did, because it really was. I think the Atlantic described it not just like, as leaderless, but leader full. You know, where it's just like, hey, block by block, building by building, people were really mounting an oppressive resistance to wildly overarmed federal agents with very little trigger discipline.
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Alison Stewart
Why do you think it happened in Minneapolis?
- [09:40]
Dessa
You know, okay, Alison, if you and I were talking off air, you know, I'll say this. I want to make room for people of all kind of political stripes. No matter what you think about immigration, this ain't the way to do it full stop, right? So no matter what your concerns are, this isn't the solution. That said, I think that there's a strong argument to be made that Trump personally had an axe to grind with our governor, Tim Walls, right, who had been, like, pretty well liked as a vice presidential candidate. And we're a crazy blue city, right? So I think that there was an opportunity there to send a message. And I think that Minneapolis said, nah, message not received. Like, return to sender.
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Alison Stewart
Why did you go ahead and write that essay for Mother Jones?
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Dessa
I wrote it in part because I think that, like, the surreality, if that's a word, of how it felt on the ground was hard to communicate by visitors to our city, you know, so when Joshua, who, Joshua Williams is here playing keyboard with me. And he texted me right away when things started popping off, like, do you have people who need groceries? I got it. I'm running, you know, I'm running out. Tell me where, you know, what, what errands I can run. It was such, like, a text based friend resistance. And I think in some ways it's helpful to say, like, hey, it isn't. It's likely that another city will be in the same position. So best practices might be helpful to share. But also personally for me, like, there's a sex shop who, like, turned into local neighborhood heroes because they collected so many donations. So they called their store, like their actual retail shop, they called it Diaper Mountain for a while because it was just taken over by the sex shop. Isn't usually gonna kick it with the Second Amendment folks, right? They're not natural partners or friends, and they're not gonna go grab beers. But when the threat was serious and sufficient, those people will become part of a shared resistance. Together, they're their compatriots, even if they're not their friends. And so, to me, the biggest reminder was, like, engage in conflict responsibly, because you will need to link arms with people who you don't like in serious scenarios.
- [11:57]
Alison Stewart
How do you keep track of it all? When you think about everything that has happened in Minneapolis just in the past eight months, how do you keep track? And how do you stay focused?
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Dessa
I'm sure I don't like NA and nah, probably. I mean, I think there's so many stories being lived. Like, the Latin community has a really different story there than the Somalian community. I think it is my type. A brain wants order. I want a spreadsheet. I'd love a matrix, if you have one. And you ain't gonna get that. It's just like, where do you see a need? Do you have anything that might help meet that need?
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Joshua Williams
God, feel that need.
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Dessa
And then you just have to look left and right and sort of trust that other people will do the same. And that's not satisfying because you don't always get to see the big arc, right. Because you're, like, in it. You're.
- [12:46]
Joshua Williams
You're.
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Dessa
I am the bad bunny. Blade of Grass. You just have to trust that the big production is going on in concert around you.
- [12:55]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Dessa. She'll be playing at Music hall of Williamsburg tonight. Would you introduce us to the rest of your band?
- [13:02]
Joshua Williams
Yes, please.
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Dessa
Okay, so I mentioned that Joshua Williams, AKA Jelly, is on Keys today. Hey, Joshua. I've also got Lady Midnight, who has joined us on tour on I'm Dessa. And then on harp and vocals is Aviva J.
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Alison Stewart
Nice to meet you, Aviva. What's the next song we're gonna hear?
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Dessa
The next song is called Tough.
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Joshua Williams
The rabbit foot ain't lucky for the rabbit the wishbone isn't really very lucky for the bird Mantis just braids of habit and that falling tree could give a sh. What you heard Cause eso sick ass that's the way it goes, I guess. C' est la vie tout mon cherry. If you're on that French tip, don't say it lightly. I'm saying it out of friendship. Life will mess you up but love, you cannot guess it Call it even. They say to to suffer is a virtue but sometimes pain just hurts to call it even. I don't believe in sometimes you're rolled by the bell do or not deserve this nonsense no cause for crisis, conscience sometimes the good guy's a bad shot sometimes the bad guy gets off there's not a plot to lose it's all chance reunions, mass confusion you don't gotta grow from it, you just gotta get through. Even if you don't want it, even when it hurts you. Here's to the ones that got away grief on the holidays these tears they're just water way. I guess we're even call it either they say to suffer there is a virtue. But sometimes pain just hurts you call it even. Just cause there's a reason doesn't mean it happened for a good cause even apple eating even Eden caught a tough call we all fall down the bell's bound trying to make it off the ground for the 10 count they say it's fate you should try to find some meaning in it I try not
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Dessa
to take it personal.
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Joshua Williams
I think it's mostly physics. Rollers got it.
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Dessa
Coast close enough.
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Joshua Williams
Keep moving we can fix it. How we doing? I play basements, an opera house, a burned out hospital I miss some easy shots pulled off the impossible but camp out of lightning just got a standard striking soul and the umbrella and the bell pencil tightly sometimes you'll blown by the bell curve do or not deserve this nonsense no cause a crisis conscience sometimes the good good guy it's a bad shot sometimes a bad guy gets off there's not a plot to lose it's all chance R. You don't gotta grow from it you just gotta get through. Even when you don't want it, even if it hurts you. Here's to the ones that got away. Grief on the holidays these tears, they're just water weight.
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Alison Stewart
That was Dessa performing. Tough call. She'll be at Music hall of Williamsburg. I want to ask you about your role at Georgetown. You are the artist in residency at. Let me get this right. Georgetown University's Music Sustainability Initiative. What was your job?
- [16:41]
Dessa
I'm still in it. And to be totally honest, I'm the first artist who served in that position. Wow. So I think we're kind of building a collab. Maybe that gives myself too much credit. They're still figuring out exactly the role, but it's been awesome. They've tailored it, I think, to the artist who's present. So this time around, we are talking about essentially like, the. The economy, the ecosystem of music and performing arts, and like, newsflash, it kind of sucks.
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Alison Stewart
How did you get the position? It's so interesting.
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Dessa
So I had the opportunity to team teach or to visit a class of a colleague there named Michael Bracey who does this sort of, like, survey on, hey, how are touring musicians making money? How is it exactly that you're supposed to monetize your, you know, your appearances in a soundtrack or on the radio? Like, what is making a living look like in this sort of weird industry that's been madly, madly disrupted? Dug it, really, like the people there. And so now there is a conference that they're putting on next month that kind of explores and investigates how AI is change. Yeah, your eyebrows went all the way up. How it's changing the ecosystem, the threats that it poses, the opportunities maybe that it offers to.
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Alison Stewart
So, yeah, what are you able to do there, do you think, with your skill set?
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Dessa
I mean, you know, it's interesting. We were just talking about it in the van the other day. I think music at its heart is often like an informal apprenticeship model. You know, you look towards the people who are doing stuff that you dig, and you say, can I carry your gear? Or whatever? Like, can I take you out to coffee? Can I watch what you do? Can I sell stuff at the merch table? I think so much of the way that we conduct ourselves, our shows, our business, is really like watching and modeling how the people around us who seem to be doing it well and in ways that we admire do it. So, like I mentioned in the van, one of the musicians, Sonny Knight, that Joshua used to tour with, I've never met the man, but he talks so often about the habits of shows that he had that I've tried to incorporate that too. So I think a lot of what's at Georgetown, in addition to that informal apprenticeship model of, like, introducing young people to people who've been in it for a second, is like the wealth of wild academic and intellectual rigor in all sorts of fields. So sitting in one of those classes and hearing people who are super well versed on how policy is formed, actual economists, people who study, hey, this is how copyright law works in China. Because there was a woman at our most recent conference who'd been a K pop star and then transitioned into intellectual property law. So to have these, like, really varied perspectives, that feels super rare, you know, I mean, that's like a real. An offering that that institution can make that's very hard to, like, recreate in our rented Sienna.
- [19:33]
Alison Stewart
So that sounds amazing. I'm gonna go to the other side of the country. I was on your website, and it said that you're gonna Be performing with the Organ Symphony in the fall. What do you have planned?
- [19:45]
Dessa
Oh, man, I feel like I'll know a lot better in July.
- [19:49]
Alison Stewart
Okay, that's fair.
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Dessa
But, yeah, I know that for that gig, it's put on as kind of a collaborative thing with, like, the book festival there. So it really leans into.
- [20:00]
Joshua Williams
Yeah.
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Dessa
Which I was stoked by. It really leans into, like, a literary angle. So I'll be doing a series of monologues that connects our symphonic show.
- [20:10]
Alison Stewart
All right, we'll talk about what's gonna happen in this city at Music hall of Williamsburg when you play there tonight. How different are your shows from city to city?
- [20:20]
Dessa
I think I get too neurotic about it.
- [20:23]
Joshua Williams
Yeah.
- [20:24]
Dessa
Yeah. Like, I don't know if your producers always know what you're gonna say. No, they don't.
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Alison Stewart
Sometimes.
- [20:30]
Dessa
Sometimes I get shy about reusing a joke if I know the band has heard it, which is not helpful because that's a lot of, like, extra riding in the van. So my pursuers wrote lol. So I think that when we head back into the. You know, into our rented vehicle to head to the venue tonight, we'll try to think of, like, okay, let's keep this the bones of the show strong. But what can we offer tonight, particularly for the people that follow the tour? I want to make sure that there's some, you know, some Easter eggs to crack open.
- [20:59]
Alison Stewart
So the last song we're gonna hear is a throwback, Dixon's Girl. It came out in 2010. Do you remember your state of mind when you were writing this song?
- [21:10]
Dessa
Oh, man, I was so. I was so green. I recorded this one so many times. I recorded it in my kitchen. I didn't understand soundproofing yet, so it was just like an echo chamber, you know? And I remember doing it, and a friend had helped to engineer it. Shout out. Jesse Green, now violinist, occasionally with the Foo Fighters. She was pressing record, and it turned out bad. Like, eight times in a row. And I felt so embarrassed. And she went, honey, this is the job. Now you know? Now that lousy take is over, we can start the next one. And that has stayed with me to this day.
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Alison Stewart
Do I know? Do I need to know who Dixon is before I hear the song?
- [21:43]
Dessa
You can't know who Dixon is. Cause I changed his name so as not to out him.
- [21:50]
Alison Stewart
All right, this is Dessa. She's going to perform Dixon's Girls from her debut album, A Badly Broken Code. Dessa, take it away.
- [21:58]
Dessa
Thanks, Alison,
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Joshua Williams
But if they ask me, I ain't heard a Thing Back to the wall, back to the park Back to the giant board Back to the wall, back to the fall Back to the giant court Back to the wall, back to the fall Back to the giant board again There was a snowstorm in Jackson when you and mom met at a club called St. Sebastian's but the sign said something different I remember thinking that I didn't have a shot at Mississippi Television told us which roads they were closing There goes a rap show and everybody knew you as the wife of a famous man Everybody who knew said there goes Dixon's girl again Even the walls, I mean closer when she plays the piano real slow hadn't met so many women in this business that I really like, like, like but you could hold a little liquor, you could hold a conversation, you could hold your own mic and even that night I learned the truth about your man, you gotta be big to treat pretty girls bad. It's not much, but my money's on you it's not much, but my money's on you it's not much, but my money not much, but my money not much, but my money My money's on you. Well, I heard from the rest of the world you're in trouble Bad news moves like fire that you fight on phone I'm too far away My will wishing can't touch you But I think of you still more than you might suppose Everybody wanna see you with your hair down Wanna hear you hit the high note Wanna know if they can get you for a little less Girl, I don't I know how the stones can fly had some hard goodbyes Call me up day and night Free drinks
- [24:11]
Dessa
and bad advice thanks, wnyc and it's
- [24:15]
Joshua Williams
not much, but my money's on you it's not much but my money My money's on you it's on you it's on you yeah My money's on you My money's on you My money's on you yeah My money, yeah my money My money's on you it's on you it's on you.
- [24:45]
Alison Stewart
That was Dessa. She'll be performing at Music hall of Williamsburg tonight. Her new EP is out. It is called Tough Call. Camelot. Dessa, thanks for being with us.
- [24:56]
Dessa
Thanks so much for having me. Allison, the new LinkedIn hiring pro can't undo your last hire, the lone wolf, who you thought was a good collaborator because you didn't have the right candidate inside. But once you hired them, it was all hoarding info, declining meetings and howling at the full moon. But LinkedIn Hiring Pro can go deeper than just the resume to find you a perfect fit by using insights from the LinkedIn network to give you a short list of best fit candidates. Hire right the first time with LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Post a free job today@LinkedIn.com Pandora finding ways to be financially savvy is a
- [25:32]
Joshua Williams
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- [25:36]
Dessa
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- [25:38]
Joshua Williams
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Dessa
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- [25:46]
Joshua Williams
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- [25:49]
Dessa
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- [25:53]
Joshua Williams
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