Narrator (2:46)

A little trip back to 2008.

Sean Wong (2:49)

My lips can touch here.

Alison Stewart (3:03)

Okay, we're in Fremont, California, and Chris Wang is having a transition summer just before high school. He's getting new rubber bands for his braces, spending evenings chatting with his crush on AOL messenger and trying to fit in some somewhere Chris, whose friends call him Wang. Wang is a bit awkward. The guys he surrounds himself with are more social, sporty, outgoing than he is at home. He feels a bit stifled. His mom, sister and grandma all have trouble reaching him and he makes some unfortunate choices. That's because Chris is focused on more important things, like trying to figure out how to impress his crush Maddie and the new group of skater bros who take interest in his amateur filmmaking skills. He's really into this thing. It's called YouTube. The film is called Dee De Wang. Wang's stumble through adolescence made a huge splash at Sundance earlier this year. The film won two audience awards. You can catch Dee Dee in theater starting July 26th. With us in studio is first time feature director Sean Wong, or I should say Academy Award nominated director. His documentary short about his grandmas was nominated earlier this year. So nice to see you.

Sean Wong (4:11)

Thank you for having me. Allison. That hello, goodbye needle drop just now is so triggering. And thank you for that lovely intro. It's such an honor to be here.

Alison Stewart (4:20)

The movie really captures awkward teenage boy years. What was it about this phase that interested you that you hadn't seen before?

Sean Wong (4:30)

I mean, I think it was two things. One, that period of my life that the movie captures, this sort of cusp of, you know, middle school to high school I think was just so formative for me. My friends and I describe it as like this time in your life where you're the worst version of yourself having the best time of your life. You're still impressionable, but you have no sense of identity. You're really figuring things out. And. And it just really felt like in all the movies that I loved about that period of adolescence, you know, Stand by me, rat catcher, 400 blows. I love those movies and I love how they'd really treated adolescent boyhood with as much emotional maturity as I think boyhood really is. It's crass and irreverent, but it's also very scary and confusing and sad and lonely. And in all of the movies that I loved about that period, that kind of movie, I never saw a kid that looked or talked or felt like me and my friends, you know, not just me. And so in thinking about the specifics of my childhood and my upbringing, it felt like there was stuff to mine there that wasn't just like a self aggrandizing, let's put my story on screen, but in a way that I was like, I think there's stuff here for like an entire generation of kids who grew up in the late 2000s that will be universal and relatable. But let's get at it through a very specific point of view and try to put like a Taiwanese American portrait on screen and see what that does to the movie.

Alison Stewart (5:47)

Let's dive into the protagonist, Chris. We meet him at the tail end of 8th grade. Where is he in his life all 13 years of what's important to him?

Sean Wong (5:56)

I think his friends are important to him. And I think being cool, you know, being accepted. I think, you know, my producer and I talked a lot about like, what does he want? I was like, I think he wants to be cool. And like, that's so much for a 13 year old boy to just like be accepted, to be seen as relevant and to feel like he belongs in the spaces that he wants to be in. And I think that's so much of what the movie is. It's him thinking he has to be a different version of himself in all of these different spaces and then he tries to be that version and then fumbles the ball. And I think it is this period in his life where the friends that he has in the movie and the friends I think you have at that age, they're all friends by proximity, right? Like it's the people you grow up with and then only later do you start creating friends because of shared interests. And I think that's where he finds himself in his life. He's starting to be interested in skating and filming and all these different interests that his friends don't share. So they don't relate to him on that, in that side of things. And I think he's trying to figure out what that looks like for him, you know, as he moves forward in life.

Alison Stewart (6:56)

If things could go right for Chris that summer, what would it be? What would go right for him?

Sean Wong (7:03)

He'd win Sundance, get nominated for an.

Alison Stewart (7:09)

For the 13 year old boy Chris. What would go right for him?

Sean Wong (7:12)

You know, probably he would. Everything he thinks, you know, like when he tells the Dead Squirrel story, he'd probably want everyone to laugh and be like, wow, you're really good, you're really funny, you're really cool. But so much of what I think we were trying to do with the movie is like, let's continue to twist the knife on him and make him feel more out of place and more out of place, because I think that's what it feels like, every time you try to, you know, I've been there. I've, like, tried to say something to fit in and, like, be cool, and people are like, what?

Alison Stewart (7:45)

So, yeah, he gets in all kinds of trouble.

Narrator (7:48)

He lies about who he is, he curses under his breath. He makes rash decisions with lotion. That's all I'm gonna say.

Sean Wong (7:55)

Sounds weird.

Narrator (7:58)

What explains the bad decisions that he makes? What is behind him making these. These rash, rash decisions?

Sean Wong (8:06)

I think a deep insecurity and a deep desire to, again, like, feel accepted and feel a sense of belonging. Right. I think. I really do think that that age, like, you just really want to. You know, he's trying so desperately to fit in that he stands out. And. And I think it is that, like, every relationship that is seen in the movie, every friendship, every crush, every, like, older kid that he wants to be, you know, to fit in with, he thinks he has to be this different version of himself to be liked or accepted. And all of those different versions of himself actually is the reason they turn him away, because they're like. You're, like, clearly a little whack.

Alison Stewart (8:49)

Yeah.

Sean Wong (8:50)

And then the only time and the only relationship in the movie that is unconditional is the one between him and his mom, and it's the one where he's actually not trying to put on and be a different version of himself. It's just with that relationship, he's the worst version of himself. But it's. You know, but she loves him, warts and all. And I think that's kind of the heartbeat of the movie.

Alison Stewart (9:07)

We're talking about Dee Dee. My guest is director Sean Wong. It's his debut feature film. It'll be in theaters on July 26th in the 2008 atmosphere. You got the flip phone, you got AOL messenger, you've got MySpace. What was it like getting your cast members, your teenage cast members, to understand the technology of that time?

Sean Wong (9:31)

It was. It was really funny. You know, luckily, all the MySpace stuff, the Facebook, the AIM, that was all created in post production, so I didn't have to walk them through, you know, what a MySpace top eight was all this kind of stuff. But the flip phones and the T9 texting was stuff that they actually had to make sure we sold it accurately. And so before production started, we sent them all flip phones, and they did not practice. And so. And we got to set, and I remember the first scene we filmed with Isaac, who plays Chris with the flip phone. He was, like, opening it with two hands and typing. I was like, oh, God, we got some practice to do and so they got there. But it was definitely. That was the biggest learning curve. The T9, texting, everything else actually came pretty, pretty easy.

Alison Stewart (10:15)

What music did you know you needed?

Sean Wong (10:18)

I knew I needed stuff that was very personal and reminiscent of the era for me, but that hadn't been heard in movies of that time. So we deliberately try to stay away from things like Paper Planes and mgmt. I love. I love that those tracks and those bands, don't get me wrong, but, you know, like, they defined what the sound was for an entire culture. I think what we wanted to do was try to figure out a more personal way. And so a lot of the music that we. That I curated for the movie with our music supervisor, Toko Nagata, was, you know, kind of cold from a lot of skate culture and a lot of things that really meant something to me. And the Warped Tour, pop punk, emo culture. So like, yeah, hello, Goodbye, Motion City soundtrack Atmosphere, which was not a Warped or band, but, you know, that world of hip hop. But also, yeah, skate culture, like music from skate videos that I really loved and shaped me like Jerry Sue's part. So all of that comes from a very personal and place and a deep place of love.

Narrator (11:16)

Chris goes by many names. There's Dee Dee, which is what his family calls him. He goes by Wang Wang, his friends. What do the different names signify? Chris, Wang, Wang and Dee Dee.

Sean Wong (11:29)

I mean, it's interesting, you know, I think almost when I was describing the movie, you know, before we made it, it was like, this is a movie about this kid. It's who he is with his friends. It's who he is with the people. He wants to be his friends. And that's who he is with his family. And so in a way, it's those three things, right? It's who he is with his friends. And when he's with his friends, he's Wang Wang. When he's with the people he wants to be his friends, he's Chris. And then when he's with his family, he's Dee Dee. And then I think by the end of the movie, that was kind of a thing we wanted to come back to. It was like. That was a question that was asked of me when we were developing the script. It was like, by the end of the movie, when the movie cuts to black, is he Wang Wang? Is he Chris or is he Dee Dee? And I think that's, you know, I have an answer for that, but it's something. I'm curious what other people Will think too.

Narrator (12:09)

Well, let's listen to a clip from Deedee. This is where Chris is talking to some girls at a party. One of them is Maddie, his crush. Let's listen and we can talk about it on the other side. This is from Dee Dee.

Maddie (12:22)

You wanna try?

Sean Wong (12:24)

Sure.

Maddie (12:26)

So you know each other? Yeah, you look familiar. You go to Horner, right?

Sean Wong (12:34)

Yeah, but not anymore. I just graduated, so, you know, thank God. Yeah, Horner kind of like sucks, you know.

Maddie (12:47)

I liked Warner. Yeah, I thought Warner was fun. What was your name again?

Sean Wong (12:57)

I'm Chris, but all my friends just call me Wang Wang.

Maddie (13:02)

What should I call you?

Sean Wong (13:06)

You just call me Wang Wang.

Maddie (13:08)

Wang Wang. Is that like the sound a duck makes?

Sean Wong (13:11)

You know, like Wang Wang.

Alison Stewart (13:15)

Maddie is so much cooler than he is.

Sean Wong (13:18)

I love that scene so much.

Narrator (13:20)

Why does he let her call him Wang Wang?

Sean Wong (13:24)

Well, I think it's in that moment that he realizes, oh, Wang Wang. The thing that my friends call me is not the greatest thing, the greatest name. And so that moment kind of gets played. The theme of it gets played a couple times throughout the movie where the next time someone asks, oh, what's your name? He takes a beat to think and he goes, yeah, no, it's Chris. And so, yeah, I think in that moment he learns like this thing where it's like, oh, like this nickname I have. I don't know if it's as endearing as, you know, my friends think it is.

Alison Stewart (13:56)

We're discussing the film Dee Dee about a coming of age story about a Taiwanese American teenager. My guess is director Sean Wang. It doesn't work unless the casting is right. The casting of Chris Isaac Wong, he. What were you looking for generally when you were looking to cast Chris and then what sold you on Isaac?

Sean Wong (14:16)

Yeah, well, I think the ethos of the movie in terms of especially the kids is again being inspired by movies like stand by me, 400 blows. And I. When I think about those movies, the boys feel so real. They don't feel like movie kids. And so I was really looking for a kid that again, like felt like a real teenage boy and wasn't. Didn't necessarily have the feeling of like a trained, polished actor. And so all of the kids, with the exception of Isaac, they're all basically first time non actors who had never even considered being in a movie before. And I think we did look at, you know, trained actors too. But it kind of dawned on me, I was like, I think the kids who are right for this movie, these, you know, young kids of color who have probably never even Considered acting. Their parents are not necessarily signing them up for acting classes. It's like an industry that is so far removed for a lot of them. Isaac, though, is sort of the exception, and he comes from an acting background, and he's been in movies like Good Boys and Ryan, the Last Dragon and these sort of, you know. You know, more like children's movies. And I think what we were trying to do is something different. It's a movie about kids, but not for kids. And so we actually found him at a time where I think he was kind of, you know, maybe a little. Maybe like, considering taking a step away from acting because he. He wanted to spend his summer being like a kid. He wanted to bike with his friends, and he wanted to, like, go and hang out with his friends and not be on a movie set with a bunch of adults. And he, again, he wanted that lived experience of being a teenage kid. And I think when our movie kind of found him, he was sort of like, we were kind of basically asking him to completely shed all of the previous experiences that he had as an actor and bring that real. A reverent teenage boy energy into it. And Isaac, I mean this in the most complimentary way, is, you know, both an extremely professional actor and understands what he needs to, you know, carry an emotional arc and a character. But he's also, like, a real punk. You know, like, he's a teenage boy, and you can feel that. That. That sort of irreverence, which is something. It's what the character needed, and it's what I wanted. It was. It was like, the best experience getting to work with him.

Narrator (16:28)

What was it like for you to have to wrangle all those teenagers?

Sean Wong (16:32)

It was fun. And also, like, again, it was. That was the. The hope of the movie was we get all these kids and we. We gave them an environment to play. You know, it was really, really, really important to me that whether this movie is good or bad, succeeds or fails, we're asking all of these kids to spend a formative year of their summer. You know, Those summers between 13 and high school are like the summers that really define your childhood. And we're asking them to spend, like, a month of their lives with us, you know, filming this movie. Again, like, they've never been on a film set before. They walk on a set and there's, like, a bunch of trucks and lights, and it's like me, when I enter a skate shop when I was young, it's like an intimidating situation to be in. And it was really, really important to Me, our producers, our whole team, that whether or not the movie was good or bad, that these kids walked away with, like, a very, very special experience, that they could look back on this experience 10 years later and be like, wow, even if I never act again, that was such a unique and special time. And, like, I'm so glad it happened. And so we really went out of our way to make sure the experience was catered to them. But also, selfishly, I knew that if the kids are having fun, I think the performances are going to feel so alive and electric and something that isn't, you know, faked. And so we kind of made sure that the chaos of the kids was sort of production was working around that, as opposed to the kids working around us. And so sometimes, you know, we'd be in between takes, I'd be like, all right, let's go again. We'd be like, where are they? And they'd be like, in a field, like a hundred, you know, just so far away and be like, all right, guys, get back here. But it was stuff like that where it was like, you know what? Don't try to keep them here. Like, if they want to go run around and play tag, let them be. We'll figure it out.

Alison Stewart (18:13)

What did you learn about being a teenager in the 2000 and twenties that was so different from when you were that age? After hanging around with these kids, I.

Sean Wong (18:24)

Mean, they definitely have, like, a different vernacular of speaking. You know, the slang is a bit different. But I think the bet that I took with the movie that I do believe is that even though the cultural context around being a teenager is constantly changing, you know, like, again, like, the MySpace and the Facebook and all the AIM stuff, and. But I do truly believe that the emotional weight of being 13 doesn't, like, you still feel embarrassed by your parents. You still are, like, wanting to fit in with your friends Again, the context changes. But the bet that I took with the movie was that those emotions and the irreverence and the sort of chaos of boyhood doesn't. And that's why I can watch Stand by me and 400 blows and all these movies that take place and were filmed decades ago, but I'm like. I see myself in those characters in that movie. I think, you know, these kids have never. I wasn't trying to tell them, like, be a teenager in 2008. I was. What I told them was, no, you know what it's like to be a teenager more than I remember what it's like to be a teenager. So you Know, be. Bring, like your whole self into it. And a lot of the work for me was actually like, we did a lot of improv, and they would, like, do a take and they'd be like, all right, bet. And then I'd be like, okay, that take was great. But don't say bet.

Alison Stewart (19:38)

Can't say bet.

Sean Wong (19:38)

Right? Cause that wasn't, you know, we weren't saying that back then. But otherwise, that energy, that irreverence, that's all them. That's all, like, their real selves.

Alison Stewart (19:46)

So you let them banter back and forth.

Sean Wong (19:47)

Yeah, so much.

Alison Stewart (19:49)

My guest is Sean Wong. His film is called Didi. It's about a coming of age story about a Taiwanese American teenager. It will be in theaters on July 26th. Chris is at home with his mom and his sister, older sister, I have to say, and his grandmother. There's a lot of female energy in the household. How do you think gender plays into the dynamic of Chris. Chris in the house full of women?

Sean Wong (20:18)

That's a very good question. I don't know. I hope the movie speaks for itself in that sense. What it's like to be raised in a house full of women and then all of a sudden walk out into the world and be thrust into this world of, like, adolescent pubescent boyhood. And, like, what they're saying and, like, the way they kind of treat, you know, women as like, you know, like, social currency, the way that they talk about it, you know, it's. It's. It's boyhood, but it's also like the cultural standard at the time and the different ways that, you know, I really see this movie about. As a movie about shame and the different ways that shame can manifest itself in a young boy's life. And I think in our movie, it's. It's personal shame. And that personal shame, I think, has to do with that, like, his inexperience with certain things, whether it's, you know, I don't know if I could say this on, like, like, you know, like, drinking or something when he's at an older party or, like, with his friends and he's, like, lying about his experience with girls and then cultural shame and societal shame. But I think all three of those kind of come into play together. And I think part of the first part of it is like, being raised in a household hold of women, like, and not having that. That male figure to be like, okay, this is how the world works type of thing. And so he's kind of searching for that again, like, his version of it is his older sister. And I think our version of the trope is normally the younger brother goes to his older brother's closet and, like, tries on his clothes, but in our movie, he goes to his sister's room and tries on, like, her tight skinny jeans and, you know, it's like wearing her dress and it's kind of like, okay, like, interesting. And see, I don't know if that answered the question, but.

Alison Stewart (21:53)

No, that was great.

Narrator (21:54)

I mean, also, the father's missing in the story.

Alison Stewart (21:56)

We don't really.

Narrator (21:58)

His absence means something to Chris. What does it mean to him?

Sean Wong (22:02)

I mean, we really looked at that as the creative challenge was, can we create this character who has never seen or heard, but always felt, who is sort of like a phantom? That was the way we kind of described it. And yeah, you know, I think again, hopefully it sort of manifests itself in the movie, like what that absence does to a boy or something. And just sort of like where he's. The different ways that he looks to, you know, find not even a male figure, but just like a figure. Right. He's always looking upwards and he's always searching for something, whether it's from his older sister or the older kids or, like, wanting to fit in more with his friend group. I think, you know, I don't think the. That is like the sole reason, but I think it's part of, you know, the whole experience of boyhood.

Alison Stewart (22:54)

Your actual grandmother is in the film. She plays Nai. Nai. It's not the first time you've worked with her. You worked with her on the Oscar nominated short earlier. How did you broach that conversation to have her in this film? What was her reaction?

Sean Wong (23:08)

It was. It was a conversation that was years long and it was. It was just like for a couple years, I was. I would just kind of joke with her. I'd be like, hey, you're gonna play the grandma in the movie, right? And she'd be like, no, I'm not an actor. Like, we can do the short and the documentary, but I'm not an actor. And every once in a while I would just be like, no, but you're gonna do it. And she's like, no, no. But she's like, no, like, you know, you should do it. And then eventually when we actually started to prep the movie and we did, you know, you know, like, consider other people. But it got to this point where she's like. I was like, well, no, I really think you might be great for this. Like, you should do it. And she was like, well, if you're that confident in me, if you believe in me that much to do it and you think I'll do a good job, like, I'll do it. And then we casted her and she did a great job.

Alison Stewart (23:55)

My guest is Sean Wong. The name of the film is Dee Dee. It's a coming of age story. Okay, so Chris meets a new group of older guys. They're skater bros. They sort of take him under his wing because he's filmmaking skills. He really, really wants to impress them. Let's listen to a scene from Dee Dee. This is Chris at a. And he teaches a friend smoking a joint the right way to get high. Let's take a listen.

Sean Wong (24:18)

Ready? Let that go out. You should Wu Tang it. Wu Tang, like the clan. Yeah. Now here, let me show you. Yeah, you got that know, bro.

Alison Stewart (24:36)

That's all of it. This is, my guess is Sean Wong. His debut feature film is Dee Dee. So we're listening to that clip and he really, really wants them to like him. Why? I know it's a silly question, but why?

Sean Wong (24:53)

I mean, isn't that what you were maybe like when you were that age?

Alison Stewart (24:56)

Like, you're all studying, huh?

Sean Wong (24:58)

You were studying. You know, I think you just do dumb things to not stand out. And then what I said before, it was like, oh, he's gonna, every time he goes out on a limb to, you know, do something that will kind of give him a little bit more currency within a friend group or something, it ends up being completely out of left field. And again, like, that was something he does with his friends, right? You see it earlier in the movie there they made a video. It's like smoking a sticky note. And his friends are like, oh, Wu Tang it. And he does. And they're like, yeah.

Alison Stewart (25:31)

And.

Sean Wong (25:32)

And then he's like, oh, like, I know what to do in this situation to get a laugh, a cheer. And he does it. And everyone's like, what the heck? And so again, it's like you're just trying to figure out how to navigate certain spaces. I was not quite that, you know, self. Not self conscious, but aloof, I guess. But Chris is. And I think it's. To me, it's very endearing because it comes from a place of deep insecurity. And I get that. But, yeah, it's hard to watch.

Alison Stewart (26:09)

It's hard. There's hard parts of the film, hard parts with his mom, hard parts with his sister. So I don't want to give anything away, but if you had to imagine Chris is 13 in 2008. Where would he be now in 2024?

Sean Wong (26:30)

I mean, I guess the easiest answer is here at wnyc, but, you know, I don't know. I think I was very fortunate to have realized that the thing I discovered when I was in seventh and eighth grade is the thing that I just want to do for the rest of my life. You know, different forms of it, whether it's storytelling, filmmaking. I still skate. And those things that I discovered that were, for lack of a better word, passions, they still give me that same buzz today. And I know that's not common for a lot of kids because for whatever reason, what you do for your hobby is not something you can always pivot into a career. And so I would hope that Chris, whatever he's doing, that I think for every kid out there, everyone who grows up, like, the thing that you like to do doesn't have to be your career all the time. I hope that whatever he grows up into, like, he. He can hopefully be happy and not be a well adjusted human being.

Alison Stewart (27:36)

Didi will be in theaters on July 26th. My guest has been director Sean Wong. Thank you so much coming to the studio.

Sean Wong (27:43)

Thank you for having me, Alison. This is really, really lovely. I really appreciate it.

Uncle (27:49)

I' ma put you on, nephew.

Nephew (27:51)

All right, Unc.

Alison Stewart (27:51)

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

Uncle (27:53)

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now. It's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap? It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.

MultiCare Narrator (28:05)

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here guided by a single purpose. Making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding health care access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org.