All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode Title: Diving Into the Modern Dictionary with Stefan Fatsis
Date: November 14, 2025
Guest: Stefan Fatsis, author of Unabridged: The Thrill of and Threat to the Modern Dictionary

Episode Overview

Alison Stewart hosts journalist and author Stefan Fatsis to discuss his new book, Unabridged: The Thrill of and Threat to the Modern Dictionary. The conversation explores the evolving role of dictionaries, the craft and philosophy of lexicography, the history and legacy of Noah Webster, user stories of dictionaries changing lives, societal debates over language and usage, the challenges posed by digital technology and artificial intelligence, and the enduring cultural resonance of the dictionary.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Behind the Scenes at Merriam-Webster

• Access as an “In-Training Lexicographer”

  • Stefan Fatsis gained full access to Merriam-Webster, even receiving a desk and key, allowing him an immersive experience among the lexicographers ([03:01–03:14]).
  • "I had written a long piece for Slate about Merriam's attempt to revise its 1961 unabridged dictionary... then made this pitch to let me inside as a lexicographer in training, to really understand from the experts how this happens.” – Stefan Fatsis [03:14]

• Atmosphere and Working Methods

  • Merriam-Webster’s editorial floor maintains a “no talking” policy, reminiscent of a library ([03:53–04:18]).
  • Editors historically compiled 16 million citation slips documenting word usage that fill metal filing cabinets ([04:47–05:49]).
  • There is concern about preservation—digitizing the slips versus the risk of fire or flood ([05:53–06:42]).

2. The Vision and Influence of Noah Webster

• Renaissance Figure and Culture-Shaper

  • Webster was influential in early America as an educator, publisher, and more ([07:39]).
  • Central belief: America needed its own distinct English, and language was foundational to national identity ([07:39–09:28]).

• Religious Influence on Lexicography

  • Webster's Calvinist faith colored many definitions in the 1828 edition, sometimes including biblically inspired definitions and examples ([09:40–10:42]).

• Inclusivity and Americanization

  • The 1828 dictionary included uniquely American words and reflected contemporary American life, setting a standard for lexicographic inclusivity ([10:52–11:47]).

3. The Lifelong Impact of Dictionaries: Caller Stories

• Language as Liberation and Opportunity

  • Eddie from Manhattan shares a moving story of how a dictionary in prison dramatically changed his life.

    "Without understanding of language and of words, I would never have gotten this far in life. ...I owe my life to that dictionary. And I still have it. It should be museum piece under glass." – Eddie (Caller) [11:55–13:05]

  • Fatsis responds:

    "Oh, my God, I'm shaking. … In many ways, that's exactly what the publishers of American dictionaries intended." – Stefan Fatsis [12:55–13:05]

• Personal and Educational Milestones

  • Mary Ellen from Florida recounts winning a Merriam-Webster dictionary in a spelling bee:

    "Talking about rubbing salt in the wound anyway, but I just love that." – Mary Ellen (Caller) [15:14–16:11]

  • Dictionaries become longstanding personal artifacts with deep meaning ([30:26–30:58]).

4. Lexicographic Philosophy: Descriptive vs. Prescriptive

• How Words Get in the Dictionary

  • Fatsis describes contributing nearly 90 definitions, balancing hot-button terms (“microaggressions,” “safe space,” etc.) and playful entries (“sheeple”, “dogpile”) ([14:04–15:06]).
  • On slang, he notes that Merriam-Webster tends to wait for slang to become established before inclusion, utilizing online portals for emergent language ([24:14–25:43]).

• Navigating Language Change and Controversy

  • The controversy over the 1961 edition’s “descriptivist” (reflecting actual usage) approach and public backlash ([24:14–25:43]).
  • Caller complaints about usage drift (“hone in on” vs “home in on,” “literally” meaning “figuratively,” “irregardless” as a word), and Fatsis’ explanation that dictionaries reflect language as used, providing guidance but not authority ([28:06–29:43]):

    “Dictionaries are descriptive. They attempt to catalog the way that people use language and reflect it. So if usage changes over the decades, the dictionary's obligation is to reflect that.” – Stefan Fatsis [28:54–29:43]

5. The Dictionary in the Age of AI and Changing Media

• AI, Copyright, and the Value of Scholarly Definition

  • With AI engines scraping dictionary data without attribution, companies like Merriam-Webster (and parent Encyclopedia Britannica) are suing over copyright ([18:19–20:26]).
  • Fatsis advises users to look for definitions directly from dictionary publishers for accuracy and quality ([19:45–20:26]).

• Clever Marketing for Print Dictionaries

  • Discussion of Merriam-Webster’s new print dictionary as a “counterweight” to AI:

    (Mock ad voice) “This LLM has over 217,000 rigorously defined parameters. It never hallucinates, it does not require a data center, and uses no electricity. ...There’s artificial intelligence and there’s actual intelligence.”* – (Merriam-Webster ad, paraphrased by Stewart & Fatsis) [20:39–21:12]

  • Print dictionaries evoke nostalgia, like vinyl records, and retain appeal despite digital convenience ([21:12–22:16]).

6. Slurs, Harmful Terms, and Cultural Responsibility

• Lexicographic Handling of Slurs

  • Fatsis details Merriam-Webster's evolving approach to documenting and labeling slurs, such as the N-word ([25:43–28:01]).

    “They handle them in what they like to believe is an academic way... There's no denying that slurs are a part of culture—a deeply offensive part of culture, but a part of culture. People go to the dictionary to get answers. They want authority. ...The N word is one of the most looked up words in the dictionary online." – Stefan Fatsis [26:14]

  • Editors’ identities (historically, “white men with PhDs”) influenced how words were handled, with major updates to harmful terms only occurring more recently ([27:15–28:01]).

7. The Art and Challenge of Writing Definitions

• Journalist vs. Lexicographer
  • Fatsis describes the tension between storytelling (journalism style) and the invisible neutrality sought in dictionary writing ([31:08–32:37]).

    "The lexicographer's job is to write something that is almost invisible... All you're focused on is, is the meaning precise and are the examples benign? You don't want to offend." – Stefan Fatsis [31:11–32:37]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Power of Dictionaries

  • "I owe my life to that dictionary. And I still have it. It should be museum piece under glass." – Eddie (Caller), [12:58]

• On the Philosophy of Inclusion

  • “Noah establishes this sort of precedent that language should be inclusive and it should describe the way people use it.” – Stefan Fatsis, [11:09]

• On Modern Lexicography’s Challenges

  • "Every media company, and Merriam Webster is really just a media company, is going to face this issue of what do you do with the paper?" – Stefan Fatsis, [05:53]

• On AI and Copyright

  • “AI seems to have crawled Merriam's data and this is the source of a lawsuit. … At the same time, they don't want chatgpt and other bots stealing their proprietary work.” – Stefan Fatsis, [18:37–20:26]

• On Language Change and Frustration

  • "Because now when I look it up, I see that they're also accepting hone in, which means I don't win an argument." – Caller Riley, [28:41]

• On the Lexicographer’s Mission

  • "The goal of the dictionary is to, you know, you want to pick up this book or open this website and not think who did this, but just that it exists. It's almost like this magical product that was given to us to help explain language and society and culture, when in fact it is the work of the assiduous work of expert linguists and lexicographers. Hard, hard work." – Stefan Fatsis, [32:11–32:37]

Noteworthy Segments with Timestamps

• [03:07–04:36] – Fatsis recounts gaining intimate access to Merriam-Webster and describes the library-like, silent environment.
• [07:39–09:28] – Detailed look at Noah Webster's life, motivations, and contributions to American English.
• [11:55–13:05] – Eddie’s story: A life transformed through accessing the dictionary while incarcerated.
• [14:04–15:06] – Fatsis on defining words for Merriam-Webster and how definitions are chosen and written.
• [18:19–20:26] – Debate over AI, dictionary copyright, and the importance of proper attribution.
• [21:12–22:16] – Discussion of the role of print dictionaries in an AI world; reference to Merriam-Webster’s clever marketing.
• [25:43–28:01] – Handling of slurs and evolving responsibility in documenting offensive language.
• [28:06–29:43] – Caller frustrations with changing definitions and Fatsis’ explanation of “descriptive” lexicography.
• [31:08–32:37] – Fatsis discusses the unique challenges and philosophy behind writing definitions steeped in neutrality.

Summary

The episode gives listeners an insightful, humane, and sometimes emotional look at the world of dictionaries—from their creation, philosophy, and history, to the cultural meanings and personal impacts they engender. Stefan Fatsis’ access to Merriam-Webster brings rare perspectives on how definitions get made, how language is preserved and evolves, and the ripple effects of technology and society on one of humanity’s oldest forms of knowledge curation. The stories from callers, combined with Fatsis’ expertise, reinforce the dictionary’s role as more than a reference—it is a living cultural artifact and personal lodestone.

Episode verdict: Essential listening for word lovers, cultural historians, and anyone fascinated by the crossroads of language, technology, and society.