Episode Summary: "Do Emergency Sirens Have to Be So Loud?"

Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Ben Nadif Haffrey, Senior Producer for Pushkin Industries
Podcast: ALL OF IT
Release Date: May 12, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of ALL OF IT, host Alison Stewart engages in an enlightening conversation with Ben Nadif Haffrey, a senior producer for Pushkin Industries. The episode delves into the pervasive loudness of emergency vehicle sirens in New York City, questioning their necessity and effectiveness in modern urban environments.

Personal Encounter with Sirens

Ben Nadif Haffrey shares his personal experience living across the street from a fire station in Brooklyn. He recounts, “[02:01]... sirens here... at really all times of the day.” This constant exposure sparked his curiosity about the role and impact of these loud warnings.

Investigative Journey

Driven by both personal irritation and professional interest, Ben embarked on an investigative journey to understand the rationale behind the high decibel levels of sirens. He describes an amusing yet insightful anecdote involving a neighbor's dog reacting to the sirens: “[02:34]... the dog would howl really loudly... is he also bothered by this siren?” This interaction symbolized the broader community's mixed feelings about the incessant noise.

Historical Context of EMS and Sirens

The discussion transitions to the history of Emergency Medical Services (EMS) in the United States. Ben notes, “[05:13]... EMS is a relatively recent phenomenon... takes off around the same time as 911 in 1968.” He highlights the influential role of the 1970s TV show Emergency, stating, “[07:00]... the siren is featured in the theme song... it's in the music.” This cultural representation helped shape public expectations and norms around emergency responses.

Current Challenges in EMS Response Times

Ben brings to light the growing concerns over increasing EMS response times in NYC, stating, “[12:46]... response times have been going up to, to 911 life threatening medical emergencies... 11 minutes 21 seconds in the start of 2025.” He attributes this rise to under-resourced paramedic services, which in turn may lead to overreliance on sirens to maintain swift responses.

Health and Safety Implications of Loud Sirens

The conversation shifts to the health repercussions of incessant siren noise. Ben explains, “[16:53]... sound that's 120 decibels can damage your hearing immediately.” He underscores the broader public health issues linked to loud sirens, including increased hypertension and potential cognitive decline due to noise pollution. Additionally, he highlights the risks faced by first responders: “[18:17]... thousands of firemen sued the makers of the famous fire siren... because they had experienced a lot of hearing loss.”

Public Sentiment and Comparative Analysis

Listeners' perspectives are introduced through call-ins. For instance, Bob from the Upper West Side shares his observations: “[10:10]... in London they have much less.” Similarly, Lars from Brooklyn compares NYC's siren usage to European cities, questioning the necessity of loud sirens in low-traffic scenarios: “[11:10]... there's no reason to be wailing that siren at three in the morning.” These anecdotes highlight a growing public desire for less intrusive emergency warnings.

Research Insights: Efficacy of Sirens

Ben references pivotal studies to assess the effectiveness of loud sirens. Citing a 2017 white paper, he states, “[23:24]... sirens save 42 seconds to 3 minutes and 48 seconds of time... not clinically significant for most emergencies.” Furthermore, he references research by Jeff Jarvis, revealing, “[24:00]... sirens are used about 86% of the time, while life-saving interventions occur in less than 7% of cases.” This stark discrepancy suggests that the majority of siren use does not translate into meaningful time savings for critical emergencies.

Policy and Legislative Efforts

The episode examines past legislative attempts to modify siren usage. Ben notes, “[20:01]... proposed a number of times in the New York City Council... but it has gone nowhere both times.” He discusses potential cultural and psychological barriers to adopting less loud or oscillating sirens, despite evidence supporting their efficacy. Anecdotal mentions, such as the unverified claim about Holocaust survivors' aversion to European sirens, add depth to the discussion, though Ben himself finds such claims questionable.

Expert Testimony and Recommendations

An insightful call from Richard, a physician, adds a medical perspective: “[21:40]... sirens are one of the major contributors to hearing loss... using sirens increases the risk of accidents in an ambulance by over 50%.” He emphasizes that the minimal time saved does not justify the significant health risks involved.

Ben aligns with Richard's stance, expressing concern over the potential reiteration of past mistakes: “[25:14]... we'll make the same mistake twice that we will say the only thing that matters is getting our response times down and therefore the siren has to be sounding all the time.” He advocates for a balanced approach that prioritizes both efficient emergency response and public health.

Future Directions and Hope

In concluding the episode, Ben shares his vision for the future of NYC’s EMS system. He urges policymakers and the community to reconsider the blanket use of loud sirens: “[25:14]... look at these questions that these researchers have looked at in other cities... how much time are the sirens saving us here and to what percentage of calls do we need to be saving that amount of time?” His hope is to foster a more judicious use of sirens, enhancing both response effectiveness and community well-being.

Conclusion

This episode of ALL OF IT offers a nuanced exploration of the role of loud sirens in emergency responses within New York City. Through personal anecdotes, expert insights, and rigorous research, Alison Stewart and Ben Nadif Haffrey shed light on the complexities surrounding siren usage, advocating for informed policy changes that balance efficiency with public health.

Listeners are encouraged to share their experiences and opinions on siren usage by calling 212-433-9692, fostering a community dialogue on this vital cultural and public health issue.