← All Of It with Alison Stewart
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- [00:00]
A
For 140 years, MultiCare has been in Washington prioritizing long term solutions, partnering with local communities and expanding access to care. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We continue our coverage of the documentary film festival doc. Our selection today is the film Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon. That icon, Emmy winning writer and actor Sonia Manzano, AKA Maria from Sesame Street. Sonya grew up right here in the South Bronx and she grew into a creative force. She was in the original Off Broadway cast of Godspell and at 21, made her way to Sesame Street. She was on the show for 44 years. She worked as a writer to make sure her Puerto Rican heritage was being represented in a meaningful way to kids around the country. She also helped teach kids about the biggest moments in life, from birth to marriage and even discussing death. Documentarian Ernie Bustamante sat down with Sonya to talk about her turbulent childhood in the Bronx, her career on Sesame street, and her continued fight for better representation in children's programming. Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon is streaming online as part of DOC nyc and director Ernie is here. Bustamante is here to join me. Nice to meet you.
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B
Likewise. Thank you for having me.
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A
Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did her character mean to you? What was your favorite Maria moment on Sesame Street? Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433, WNYC. You can call in, join us on air or you can text to us at that number as well. 212-433-9692. When was the first time you remember watching Maria on Sesame Street?
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B
You know, I am a child of the 80s, so it was definitely growing up in the early 1980s. And you know, when I saw Sonia as Maria and Emilio Delgado as Luis, I really identified and saw my parents who are also coincidentally Mexican American and Puerto Rican.
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A
Why do you think kids, all kids, were gravitated towards Maria?
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B
You know, that's something I asked her because when you think about all the Muppets and puppets that are iconic from the show, she really is one of the humans that stands out the most. And over the course of filming the documentary, I really learned that. Well, in my opinion, I think it had to do with the fact that she brought so much of herself to the role. So when children and adults were watching her, they felt like they were Watching a real person amid the, you know, fantastic puppets. And so I think she felt real.
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A
Tell me about her childhood. She was in the South Bronx. How did it shape her?
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B
You know, one of the early things that you'll. You'll learn by watching the film is how she gravitated towards stories and particularly television, for refuge in a chaotic household in the South Bronx growing up, which is described in her memoir, which is a beautiful, beautiful book. And what I found so fascinating was that this was a person who found refuge in television and then eventually sought out the arts as coping mechanisms, someone might say, as an escape to. But then eventually made her way into the television, which, I mean, I just thought, that's a movie.
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A
It's interesting when she talks about her family life, because it was an abusive home. Her father was abusive towards her mother. What does Sonya say about how violence and how the violence between her parents affected her as a kid, and it affected her choices?
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B
You know, one of the things that you'll see in the film is that she really was aware of what was going on. It was not something that she ignored, but in fact, took it upon herself to deal with. And that's something you'll see in the film. And it speaks to the level of maturity that she had at a very young age, but also how you see her in all phases of her life, whether she's going to a new environment like the high school performing arts, or whether it's getting a scholarship to an elite drama institution. She goes into these institutions and she thrives. And so I think part of what she says in interviews sometimes is that her upbringing made her who she was, and she used that.
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A
It's interesting because to tell her story, you used some great animations. Why did you decide to include animations and who did them?
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B
Yeah, the animator that we used is a brilliant artist named Jeffrey Aviles, who I found on Instagram.
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A
Oh, wow.
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B
Yeah. And I reached out to him and he joined. You know, he joined the team, and I was really grateful, and he was an excellent collaborator. But one of the reasons I wanted to use animation was because I wanted people who are watching this. You know, so many of people who are interested in the film are going to be people who grew up watching Sonia Manzano on Sesame Street. And I thought I wanted to make a film as if her. Now, adult audiences were watching a children's show, but for adults with adult lessons, with adult stories. And so that's where the animation kind of came into that.
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A
And then the other very funny part of the film Are these reenactments where the people doing the acting, it's not their voices. Tell us how you decided on that.
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B
You know, one of the things, you know, Sonya was very independent from the film. You know, we made the film without, you know, she wasn't a consultant on it or anything. And she was a great participant in that way. The one thing she told me was make it funny.
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A
Really? How interesting.
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B
And I'm glad she said that, and I'm glad she reminded me because so much of what I admire and why I look up to Sonya as a television writer, because she is a comedy writer at heart. She is a comedic actress, and I'm a TV writer. I love comedy. And so oftentimes we don't get to see these nuanced or positive portrayals of Latinos in comedy. And she was one of the early ones. And so I gravitated towards that.
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A
My guest is director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon, a documentary about Sesame street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. It's streaming now online as part of DOC nyc. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember the most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did the character mean to you? 212-433-969-2212, wnyc. As you said, she went to a high school for performing arts, and then she got herself into Carnegie Mellon, which is a really interesting story because she didn't get the recommendations that she expected or she had hoped to get. What did this tell you about her?
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B
Very early on, you realize that Sonya is someone who sets her eye on a goal and in pursuit of that goal is utterly relentless in the best possible way. And so she sets her eyes on going to college. She doesn't get any recommendations. In fact, the teachers at the performing arts high school thinks that her acting is dull, so they don't think she's very talented. And so she goes around them. She goes around them. She asks other people for these recommendations. She sets up the audition herself. And Lauren, behold, she gets a scholarship to Carnegie Mellon University. And from there, I mean, so many things take off for her after that.
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A
Yeah, we got a text from here from somebody who said, saw Sonya in Godspell doing Turning Turn Back. Oh, man. Amazing. All right. This was wild. And I didn't know this about her, that she was in the original off Broadway show of Godspell.
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B
Same. I didn't know that either.
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A
How did you find? That was amazing to me.
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B
Yeah, I mean, it's so many reasons why I created this documentary was because, you know, we know this character who's been who was on sesame street for 44 years. I'm sorry. Yeah, 44 years. Four decades. We don't know the real person. And that was so many layers and experiences and accomplishments. And that's just part of it.
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A
It was kind of interesting because it was like her, the idea that she liked clowning and she liked mime and then there was this sort of like woo woo version of the Bible and she was going to be in it, but they had a little difficulty with her voice. Would you explain that?
- [09:33]
B
Yeah. To quote Stephen Schwartz, who graciously is in the film, he says Sonya was not primarily a singer. And that was something that Sonya struggled with early on. But again, when Sonia Manzano is faced with an obstacle, a challenge, she meets that challenge and she thrives and she exceeds the expectations for herself included. And so she goes on to Sesame street where she sings quite a bit.
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A
We'll have more about Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon after a quick break. This is all of it. You're listening to ALL of IT on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon. It's about Sesame street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. How did Sonya first get connected with Sesame Street?
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B
She, when she auditioned for Sesame street, she was playing in the original production of Godspell. And so that was a hit. And that's where people took notice. Yeah.
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A
And so she went in and she auditioned for what role?
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B
Well, the role that was created was a role for a Puerto Rican teenager. And there was also another role created for a Mexican American actor. So Luis and Maria were cast at the same time. So Sonia Manzano and Emilio Delgado joined together. And that came about because Mexican American activists on the west coast demanded representation for Latinos on this public television show. And so the mission was to cast a Latina and a Latino specifically to address the need of and the demand of those activists. Again, something in his television history I was not quite aware of, but Sonya does speak about in the film.
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A
Let's talk to Tracy from Staten Island. Hi, Tracy. Thanks for calling all of it.
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C
Hi. My sister and I are in our 50s now and grew up watching Sesame Street. And when my sister was about five years old, my grandfather asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up. And she said, I want to be Puerto Rican like Maria on Sesame Street. My grandfather was horrified and thought we should stop watching Sesame Street. The rest of my family thought it was hilarious. And my sister is the strongest, kindest, most empathetic woman I know. So she has a lot of Maria in her, but just not Puerto Rican.
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A
So what did you take away from that? First of all, your grandfather saying no go, and then your sister deciding that she wanted to be Puerto Rican?
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C
My sister just adored Maria and thought that, you know, being Puerto Rican was part of her specialness, and so she wanted to be that. And my grandfather was a gentleman of a certain age and thought that was crazy, so. But we love Sesame street and we love Maria.
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A
Thank you so much for calling in. What we're talking about, in some ways, in a sideways, is representation on television. How aware was Sonya in terms of her representation of Puerto Rican women on television?
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B
In conversations I've had with her, I don't think that she was as aware in the beginning. You know, when Sonia speaks about being on the show, she wasn't sure the show would last very long. You know, I don't think 44 years on the show, she definitely didn't think that. But I think looking at it from that perspective, I think it was something very important, you know, the representation of Puerto Ricans. And she made it a mission of hers once, especially once she became a writer on the show.
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A
I was gonna ask about that. She became a writer on the show. What were some of the things that she did as a writer that she wrote for her character or for other characters?
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B
You know, so, you know, one of the things that Sonia gravitated towards the writing was because she felt that the Latino content wasn't as interesting, it wasn't as funny as, you know, Cookie Monster eating this table. And, you know, and so the producers at Sesame street said, okay, then write it.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And again, another instance when Sonia Manzano is met with a challenge. She faces it, she exceeds, and she thrives. And she did that with writing. She wrote. She wrote pieces to audition, and they hired her right on the spot. And one famous sketch that she wrote as an audition piece was a very brilliant and smart and sophisticated sketch called. You say hola, and it's about the word hola. And she plays a Ginger Rogers, and Emilio is Fred Astaire. And it's this beautiful sketch, and it's in the. It's in the film.
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A
We have a clip of it. Let's take a listen.
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C
Each time we meet at work or.
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B
The street, we always say hello, but.
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C
You say hola, and I say hola.
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B
It's the word that we both know.
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C
Hola means hi, hello, now goodbye. Why everywhere you go, the girls say.
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B
Hola, the boys say hola. Cause hola means hello.
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A
And they're in these. She's in a beautiful gown and he's in a top hat. And what's so special about that particular scene?
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B
To me, first of all, what makes it so special is how evergreen that sketch is. You can watch that sketch today, 30 plus years later, and it still has the same impact and relevance, and you still learn what hola means, just the same. But also, it was a way that I never really saw Latinos portrayed. I mean, here you had a Mexican American and a Nuyorican as Fred and Roger.
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A
Ginger.
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B
Roger, yeah. It was a parody of them. And I thought it was so sophisticated. And that speaks to, in my opinion, how ahead of her time she was. Because even now, when I look at comedies, particularly in television, through a Latino lens, first of all, there's not much of it, but when they are portrayed, it's very often caricatures or, you know, negative stereotypes. It just, you know, it isn't something I necessarily gravitate towards. And. And she was doing this sophisticated comedy in the 80s, and I. I just really admire that.
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A
Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did her character mean to you? What was your favorite Maria moment? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. Guest is director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon. It's part of DOC nyc. There's another moment I want to play from the film when Mr. Hooper had died and the actor had died in real life. And Sonjo felt particularly not proud, but she felt it was the right thing to say. We should address this. Let's listen and we can talk about it on the other side. Big Bird, don't you remember we told you Mr. Hooper died? He's dead.
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C
Oh, yeah, I remember. Well, I'll give it to him when he comes back.
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A
Big Bird. Mr. Hooper's not coming back.
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C
Why not?
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A
Big Bird? When people die, they don't come back ever. No, never. Poor Big Bird. Why did she think that was the right thing to do?
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B
You know, she talks about in the film how she wasn't a writer on the show at that time, but so much of what she speaks to during that moment. And about that, you know, I was able to interview Norman Stiles, who wrote that segment, and what she speaks about and what he speaks about was being honest with children. If we're honest about life, then we should be honest about death. And, you know, so many of the cast members and the writers from Sesame street are very proud of the legacy that it has. And that I know, is Sonya considers that one of the most proudest moments to be a part of the show.
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A
Did she consider herself an educator as well as an entertainer?
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B
That's a good question. You know, I think that kind of, like I had mentioned before, it was something she leaned into later. It was something that she realized the importance of. Of what she was a part of and embraced that responsibility.
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A
Let's talk to Asha, who's calling from Virginia. Hey, Asha, thank you so much for making the time to call, all of it.
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C
Oh, thank you for. Thank you for taking my call. You know, I just wanted to throw in the mix the fact that when I immigrated from India in the 70s and when I came to the United States, my mom and I, we didn't really speak English at all. And I think we both together learned how to speak English. Obviously, I did through school, but Sesame street was a huge part of my, you know, getting acclimated to the United States. And Maria was one of the characters on Sesame Street. You know, she was someone of a different ethnicity, and she talked about it, and she made it okay to be different. And she was the closest to an Indian person that I saw on TV at the time when there weren't that many Indians on tv and even now there aren't that many Indian Americans on tv. But, you know, really meant a lot to me in terms of representation and what, you know, people who look different, what they could do, including being in the arts, but also being educators. And she was a huge part of my education in this country, and I'm so grateful for her and all the other folks that were on Sesame street and other PBS shows. I mean, they played a huge part in me getting fundamental, foundational learning in this country when I first came.
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A
Thank you so much for calling. We do appreciate it. I wanted to ask about her acting with Muppets. Was it hard for her? Yes, it was. Yes.
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B
You know, Sonya was 21 years old when she got cast on the show, which was a hit show getting millions of viewers across the country. And these are giant cameras at that time. And she's, you know, she mentions how the cameras were intimidating. The, you know, the pup, the. The puppeteers are down at your feet. And so it's like, you know, maintaining the eyeline. So all of this is new to her. And meanwhile, which I thought was really fascinating was that her first year she's doing Sesame street during the day and Godspell at night. So she's on a hit TV show during the day and a hit off Broadway musical at night. I mean, I don't know. I mean, let's talk about a main character, right?
- [21:44]
A
But she did like Oscar the Grouch. That was her favorite character in particular.
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B
Absolutely. You know, Sonya is hilarious. You know, her sense of humor is her wit. She's so sharp. And you know, Oscar's hilarious as well. So I see why they're a match. And she also said he was her favorite to write for because he's a negative character. It's easy to write for a negative character than it is like a positive one. And so I think their personalities meshed. And she was a very, I mean, they just. The back and forth between them is so funny.
- [22:24]
A
The name of the film is Street Smart Lessons from a TV Icon. It's a documentary about Sesame street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. It's streaming now online as part of DOC nyc. Its director, Ernie Bustamante joined me in studio. Thank you for being with us.
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B
Thank you so much.
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A
We'll have more of it tomorrow. We'll talk about the best books of the year with the New York Public Library's chief librarian. And we'll mark the 50th anniversary of the classic documentary Gray Gardens. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate, appreciate you and I'll meet you back here tomorrow.
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B
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- [23:36]
A
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