Don't Overlook Beauford Delaney's Drawings

Summary

Podcast Summary: "All Of It" Episode – "Don't Overlook Beauford Delaney's Drawings"

Host: Alison Stewart
Guests: Emmanuel Matana (Playwright and Actor), Louisa Jacobson (Actor)
Air Date: June 26, 2025
Topic: Exploring the Broadway Play Trophy Boys at the Manhattan Theatre Club

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Introduction to Trophy Boys

In this episode of WNYC's All Of It, host Alison Stewart delves into the newly premiered play Trophy Boys at the Manhattan Theatre Club. The play, written by Emmanuel Matana, features four non-binary and female actors portraying hyper-masculine teenage boys engaged in a high-stakes debate. The discussion is enriched by the insights of both the playwright and actor Louisa Jacobson, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the play's themes, production, and underlying social commentary.

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Background and Inspiration

Emmanuel Matana shares the genesis of Trophy Boys, revealing a personal connection to debate and its impact on her life. “[Debating] was so great for me as a young teenage girl because I was so political. It gave me a space where for eight minutes I got to be uninterrupted and have people listen to me” (02:18). This positive experience, juxtaposed with later societal issues, inspired Matana to create a narrative that examines masculinity and its effects.

Louisa Jacobson's Perspective on Debating

Louisa Jacobson discusses her lack of formal debate experience, stating, “I have no previous experience with debate” (02:56). Despite this, she adeptly embodies the role of Jarrett, one of the teenage boys, highlighting the actors' ability to convincingly portray debaters through rigorous rehearsals under director Donya Taymor's guidance.

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Character Development and Themes

The play focuses on a group of prep school seniors preparing for a debate on whether feminism has failed women. Initially confident, the boys confront the complexities of the topic, which challenges their preconceived notions. A pivotal moment occurs when they must argue a position they do not believe in, encapsulating the play’s exploration of performative masculinity and internal conflict.

Key Play Quote:

“Owen explaining how they might win the debate that feminism has failed women”

“My time begins now. Central argument. Feminism has failed women. When it is not intersectional... And therefore, in failing different intersections of women, feminism has failed all women.” (10:32)

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Shift from Comedy to Drama

Originally conceived as a comedic take on men grappling with feminism, Trophy Boys evolves into a more dramatic narrative addressing serious issues like sexual assault and accountability. Matana explains, “What starts as something really light is actually a much bigger conversation” (23:23). This transition underscores the play’s commitment to meaningful dialogue, using humor as a vehicle to approach sensitive topics.

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Representation and Gender Performance

A significant aspect of Trophy Boys is its casting of non-binary and female actors in male roles, challenging traditional gender norms. Matana articulates, “Gender is a performance... we can liberate ourselves from it” (17:43). This choice not only highlights the constructed nature of gender but also emphasizes the performers' exploration of masculinity from diverse perspectives.

Louisa on Portraying Male Characters:

“There's like this shiftiness in young men... a desperate need for love and acceptance in young men, particularly teenage boys.” (14:46)

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Directorial Influence and Cultural Adaptation

Under the direction of Tony Award-winning Donya Taymor, the play was adapted from its original Australian setting to resonate with New York audiences. This involved altering cultural references and enhancing the authenticity of the characters’ experiences. Emmanuel Matana praises Taymor’s empathy and creative vision, stating, “She's been such a guide through it all” (15:01).

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Audience Engagement and Social Commentary

The play's confined setting—a single room—serves as a microcosm for examining locker room culture and male camaraderie hidden from public view. Matana emphasizes the importance of confronting what happens “behind closed doors” and the societal implications of holding men accountable for their actions. She hopes the audience will engage with these themes critically and empathetically.

Louisa on Audience Takeaways:

“How do we hold men accountable more? What are ways that... people can feel seen and held.” (24:24)

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Final Reflections

Both guests express a desire for Trophy Boys to inspire conversations about gender, accountability, and societal expectations. They aim for the play to be both a mirror and a catalyst for change, encouraging audiences to reflect on their roles in perpetuating or challenging harmful norms.

Emmanuel Matana’s Favorite Quote:

“Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.” (26:21)

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Conclusion

In this insightful episode, All Of It masterfully dissects Trophy Boys, showcasing its innovative approach to gender discourse and its relevance in contemporary society. Through the collaborative efforts of Emmanuel Matana, Louisa Jacobson, and director Donya Taymor, the play emerges as a poignant exploration of masculinity, empathy, and the power of performance in fostering social change.

Where to Watch:

Trophy Boys is currently playing at the Manhattan Theatre Club and will continue until July 27, 2025.

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Notable Quotes:

• Emmanuel Matana on debate's impact:
  “[Debating] was so great for me as a young teenage girl because I was so political. It gave me a space where for eight minutes I got to be uninterrupted and have people listen to me” (02:18).

• Louisa Jacobson on portraying Jared:
  “Jared is like a soft boy jock artist. He's got so much riz... He wants to bring integrity to all of his endeavors” (08:32).

• Louisa on director Donya Taymor’s advice:
  “These boys aren't stupid... stay with the boys” (15:54).

• Emmanuel Matana on the play's message:
  “What we're actually talking about in the show is we are talking about sexual assault, and we're talking about the fact that men don't get held accountable for their actions” (23:23).

• Louisa Jacobson on audience reflections:
  “I hope that people also come away from this feeling like seen and held” (24:24).

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References

• 02:18: Emmanuel Matana discusses the positive aspects of debating.
• 02:56: Louisa Jacobson talks about her lack of debate experience.
• 10:32: Key debate segment from Trophy Boys.
• 14:46: Louisa discusses the portrayal of teenage boys.
• 15:01: Emmanuel praises Director Donya Taymor.
• 17:43: Discussion on gender performance.
• 23:23: Shift from comedy to drama in the play.
• 24:24: Louisa on audience takeaways.
• 26:21: Emmanuel's favorite quote on art's role.

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Note: Time stamps correspond to the provided transcript and are used to reference specific parts of the discussion.

Transcript

[Emmanuel Matana]

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[Alison Stewart]

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[Emmanuel Matana]

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Stuart. There's a lot going on this weekend and on tomorrow's show we're gonna highlight two things, Pride and local beaches. I'm gonna be off doing full bio, so David Furst will be sitting in the chair for me. So be sure to listen up and call in and share your favorite beaches. Plus, tell us what your Pride weekend plans are. That's in the future. Right now, let's take a trip back to school with a new play called Trophy Boys. A group of prep school seniors is gearing up for the fun final debate. It is going to be an epic showdown. They are ready to take on a girls school and they are sure they're gonna crush it until they see the subject. They have to debate that feminism has failed women in the affirmative. They have an hour to come up with an argument. Now, if that wasn't enough, they find out there's a rumor about one of them that could have repercussions. The play is four people in one room. Four non binary and female actors are playing these hyped up teenage boys. Trophy Boys was written by Emmanuel Matteo and she says in a note in the program gender is learned, which means it is also taught with this brand of masculinity inhabited on stage by non CIS male bodies. My hope is that it can be revealed for what it is, comical, absurd, and ultimately a disturbing performance. Trophy Boys has toured all over Australia and it's made its way to the Manhattan Theater Club. It'll be there until July 27th. Joining me now is the writer of the play and one of the actors, Emmanuel Matana. Nice to meet you.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Hi, thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

And also Louisa Jacobson, who is playing Jarrett. It's a big week for Louisa because you can see her in the gilded age as well as materialists. Nice to see you, Louisa.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Nice to see you too.

[Alison Stewart]

All right. You were a debater?

[Emmanuel Matana]

Unfortunately, yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Before you wrote this.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

What do you remember liking about debate?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think debating was so great for me as a young teenage girl because I was so political. I was so argumentative and it gave me a space where for eight minutes I got to be uninterrupted and have People listen to me, but also have a space where I got to learn about things that really mattered. I was learning about current affairs and politics and things that aren't normally a part of the curriculum and getting this really broad education that was about things that mattered to me firstly, but also was about how to argue and how to speak and how to think. And I think those are all things that have really stuck with me, even if debating itself was maybe a bit gross.

[Alison Stewart]

What was your experience with debate, Louisa?

[Louisa Jacobson]

I have no previous experience with debate.

[Alison Stewart]

None?

[Louisa Jacobson]

None.

[Alison Stewart]

So this was a new world for you?

[Louisa Jacobson]

Yes. I mean, I had observed it as a high schooler myself at Poly Prep Country Day School. There was a debate team there. So, you know, I knew what the guys were like that did it, but I was never a part of it. Yeah.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Which meant that when we started rehearsals, Danya Taymor, our wonderful director, got us to do all these practice debates. And Louisa says that she hasn't done debate before, but she's really very good and very competitive all of a sudden.

[Alison Stewart]

What makes someone a good debater?

[Emmanuel Matana]

The ability to think fast, to be articulate, be commanding, be convincing. And maybe also cynically, which this play sort of hopes to highlight, the ability to really convincingly argue things you don't necessarily know enough about or even believe.

[Alison Stewart]

What did Danya Tavemor have you. Have you debate? Do you remember.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Do you remember the organ donation one?

[Louisa Jacobson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Emmanuel Matana]

She got us to do really messy things. That was fun.

[Alison Stewart]

That must have been hard.

[Louisa Jacobson]

It was hard, but it was also so playful. Those practice debates were just, you know, the stakes felt really high. You only had a little amount of time to prep some answers. And, you know, it was silly, so it felt playful. But, yeah, that was a. But actually, I was surprised at what we came up with.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Yeah, we were really smart.

[Louisa Jacobson]

I sometimes forget that I can do that because I'm not challenged to that that often anymore. With my phone taking away all my brain cells.

[Alison Stewart]

That's another conversation. When did you realize that debate would be good fodder for writing a play?

[Emmanuel Matana]

Yeah, so I pretty much stopped debating straight after high school. And then back In Australia in 2021, there was a really high profile MeToo case against our Attorney General, who was basically on the way to become prime minister. And that MeToo case was a historical case from when he was 17 and at a high school debating tournament. And the woman who made those accusations, Kate, came forward, but then subsequently took her life before they were able to be made public. And so this play really was a tribute to Kate and to all those high school debating tournaments that I went to that I saw were just like that exact tournament. And I was 20 when I started writing the play. And I sort of. I had always joked when I was younger with my friends who did debate, that we definitely knew all of the men, the boys who were gonna become the leaders. And we thought that was a really funny joke until we realized it probably wasn't. And I think for me, it was kind of a reckoning of going, okay, well, I. I saw all of these boys behavior up close, and I knew something was deeply wrong when I was a teenager. And now maybe with the distance, I can put words and thoughts to what I experienced. And how can I turn it into comedy? How can I reclaim it? How can I literally put on these boys shoes and step into them and say something?

[Alison Stewart]

We are discussing the play Trophy Boys, which is at the MCC Theater through July 27. My guests are Emmanuel Matana and actor Louisa Jacobson. Okay, let's listen. This is a clip from Trophy Boys. This is a point when they find out what they're going to have to debate. Let's listen and we can talk about it on the other side.

[Louisa Jacobson]

We can't argue that.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, like, ethically, I just don't believe that.

[Emmanuel Matana]

I can't argue something I don't believe.

[Louisa Jacobson]

You realize that's literally what debate, Right?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I love women. Yeah, sure, right. They'll think we're bad people, though.

[Alison Stewart]

Bad men.

[Emmanuel Matana]

In this political climate.

[Louisa Jacobson]

I don't think this means what you think it means.

[Alison Stewart]

You'll look really bad.

[Emmanuel Matana]

The zeitgeist. We also just won't win it.

[Louisa Jacobson]

We can't. Not against our sister school.

[Alison Stewart]

Cause they're like feminism women. Like feminism like women.

[Emmanuel Matana]

They're like feminism women.

[Alison Stewart]

Louisa, why did the idea of debating feminism. It's both funny and horrible for these boys at the same time. What do you think of that idea of giving boys this idea of debating that feminism has failed women?

[Louisa Jacobson]

I think if we're thinking about boys who are living in 2025, I think. And not just boys, honestly, we're all very careful now about what we say and aware that if we say the wrong thing, we could be totally socially ostracized. So I think that that's something that's definitely on Jared's mind. And I think there's also, for him, like, a conflict of interest because he loves women and supports them. And I think that he could never conceive of arguing on the side that feminism has indeed failed women because it would seem like a betrayal.

[Alison Stewart]

How did you come up with the idea that it was going to be feminism that they were going to debate?

[Emmanuel Matana]

It's funny, I knew a lot of self proclaimed feminists in high school who walked one walk and talked another talk. And I think that the hypocrisy was always really glaring to me and I think that was. It was always going to be that topic. I always wanted to sort of unpack what was behind men who said all the right things, but that didn't reflect in their behavior. And I think what's been really interesting since the inspiration and since I started writing it is we've actually had this real backlash to MeToo. Where originally men I think were trying really hard to be perceived as doing all the right things. And now they can kind of say whatever they want and still become president.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Right.

[Alison Stewart]

Louisa, how would you describe Jared, the character you play?

[Louisa Jacobson]

Jared is like a soft boy jock artist. He's got so much riz.

[Emmanuel Matana]

He loves his mom, you know, he.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Loves his mom, he loves his girlfriend. He just, he wants to, he wants to do the right thing. He wants to bring integrity to all of his endeavors. He wants to be like a superhero. He wants to contribute something good to the world. I really believe that about him. Yeah, but he's young, I think.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you know many Jared's in your life?

[Louisa Jacobson]

I knew so many Jareds. I still do. I think that's what made it relatively easy to step into that role. Yeah. Lots of Jared's that I both still have in my life and love and then some that I really will never speak to again. Yeah, yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Scott's played by. Is it Esco.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Esco Jolie.

[Alison Stewart]

Thank you. His kid. He's a kid. His dad's a lawyer. He can be a bit aggro. David is played by Terry Hugh as a team manager. He can be a little manipulative in a situation. And then you play Owen, the wonderful Owen. Owen wants to be president one day.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Absolutely. And he will be.

[Alison Stewart]

He could be what is important to Owen in the moment.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Uh, being the voice of his generation, being correct at all times and most importantly, winning the debate at all costs.

[Alison Stewart]

Does he believe he can win the debate?

[Emmanuel Matana]

Of course he can. He can twist anything and he's the smartest in the room.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to trophy boys.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Oh no.

[Alison Stewart]

This is Owen explaining how they might win the debate that feminism has failed women.

[Emmanuel Matana]

My time begins now. Central argument. Feminism has failed women. When it is not intersectional. The pillars of, of first and second wave ideology the fundamentals upon which modern feminism were built were designed for white and middle class women. The movement has been unable to adapt on a profound intellectual, political, spiritual level to inherently become intersectional because of said roots. And therefore, in failing different intersections of women, feminism has failed all women. We identify the most vulnerable stakeholders in the case, lgbtqia, wnba, body inclusive by walking. And then when the girls can't address them, we win.

[Alison Stewart]

All right, so is Owen like an evil genius or is he just an example of how anything can really be argued?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think for the sake of the show, you'll have to come along and find out.

[Alison Stewart]

When you were writing it though, did you. What were you thinking?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I don't think he's evil. I think the thing is that when I was writing the show, I wanted to write with so much compassion for the boys. I have a younger brother who's 16 and is truly the love of my life. And I think the thing that's important when we have all these conversations about feminism is the way that actually patriarchy is affecting young men and it's denying them their ability to be emotionally expressive, to feel their feelings, to connect intimately with other people. And I always wanted boys to be at the heart of this for us to show that we really, really do care about them and that they're victims just as much as women are.

[Alison Stewart]

Louisa, what have you had to observe about boys to play this part?

[Louisa Jacobson]

What have I had to observe about boys who play this part?

[Alison Stewart]

How they get excited. I'm just curious about. I have a 17 year old son. I recognized him in certain aspects of the show.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Yeah, for sure. I think to me, what's the most interesting is their behavior under pressure and they're like, they're. I'm not gonna be very articulate about this, but they're like good intentions. They want at least the ones that we are playing, they're not out here trying to cause harm. And I think what's. What's interesting to me is like that moral dilemma or the dilemma that exists within them of like, wanting to win and wanting to be ambitious, but also wanting people to like them. And I think right now there might be this feeling among young men where they're like, who? I'm such an easy target. Which is a funny thing for me to say, but, you know, they might feel like scapegoats or that there's a target on their back and they're like, who's gonna hold me and comfort me even through my mistakes? I think there's like a desperate need for love. And acceptance in young men, particularly teenage boys. And I just like, I have so much like love and respect for them, even though they can cause a lot of harm unknowingly. I think the thing that interests me the most is the shift. Like there's like this shiftiness in young men that I've like kept an eye out for teenage boys as I like walk through the streets of New York and there's like this nervousness or it's constantly moving something like they're moving their legs, they're moving, they're shifting their shirts, they're looking around. There's like a restlessness that I also have tried to like capture in this particular play in this context. Like where does that live in Jared's body? And is it activated by wanting to win and wanting to do well both at the same time?

[Alison Stewart]

You have a change in director. This was toured Australia. Now you have Donya Taymor. Tony award winning Donya Taymor. She's great. The outsider. John Proctor is the villain. She came by to talk to us about that. First of all, what was it like to give your play over to a new director?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I mean, it's been an absolute joy because Dania is a genius and has so much empathy for all of the characters, such a deep understanding of the show and so much bravery. So I think I knew as soon as we met and talked about the play that it was in safe hands.

[Alison Stewart]

What did she change?

[Emmanuel Matana]

So we've totally readapted the whole play to be set here. Originally it was obviously set in Australia and that means that a whole bunch of cultural references are completely shifting. Oh, interesting. So we've changed a lot of dialogue. A lot of the references we make to specific men, specific me too cases are all completely new. And there's also just been a real sort of cultural shift which has been fascinating to navigate and she's been such a guide through it all.

[Alison Stewart]

What piece of advice, Louisa, did Danya give you to help you reach your sort of your full Jaredness?

[Louisa Jacobson]

Oh, gosh, there's so many pieces, it's like hard to pick one. I think something that she said to all of us was that particularly me and Scott because I think we sort of come across as the like not as smart ones. And she said these boys aren't stupid. And I feel like that's sort of seems obvious, you know, but it's such an important piece that we have to always remember and to. I mean I always go into every project that I do trying to, you know, have so much respect for every character that I play. And I certainly didn't want Jared to come across like that. I was judging him in any way. So that piece of advice helped. And then she always says too, when we get. When we feel a little lost on stage or if we're like, off the train, she says, just stay with the boys. Like your boys are going to keep you grounded and present. And that's been so helpful, you know, as an actor. Just if I suddenly become very aware of my performance and stop being present, I will just make eye contact with Scott or Owen or David and I'll get right back on track. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

We're discussing the play Trophy Boys, playing at the mcc theater until July 27th. My guests are writer and actor Emmanuel Matana and actor Louis Jacobson. All the characters are non binary and female. This was always the case.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Mm.

[Alison Stewart]

Why?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think, for me, I'm really interested in understanding the ways that gender is a performance. It's something that gets put on, and I hope that there is an invitation in the show that if you see we can put it on, maybe you can also take it off. That there are things we don't need to hold on so tightly to and that maybe a lot of this is constructed and. And we can liberate ourselves from it. I hope that there's joy in that. For me, like I said, I think gender is a bit of a scam, but I also think that there's joy to be found. And I think also drag kings especially, it's such an underappreciated art form that I think a lot of people don't know what to do with it when they see femme people dressing up as men and possibly lampooning them. And it's been really exciting to. To step into that space and watch how us, as performers, I think, are learning to take up space because of that.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. I saw some of the clips of the Australia version and you're much more. It's more comical in some way. The costuming is different. Tell us a little bit about that.

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think something we really discovered throughout this production has a lot to do with comedic sensibilities here versus back home. And I think back home we sort of grew up on a diet of Katherine Kim and Summer Heights High and those sorts of shows where we have a lot of love and empathy for the clown and that no matter how big and silly things are, we can see truth in them. Whereas something that we've really worked on here is building so much more truth into the characters. Shrinking them down. And that has been really fascinating. I think back home, our boys were they perhaps started as bigger caricatures or there was perhaps more of a joke to be found in what does it mean if we walk on with a terribly drawn on mustache and giant oversized blazer? Whereas here I think we're actually just boys. And that's been really exciting that people have gone, oh, yeah, you know, a few minutes in I forgot that it was drag. I was just watching boys.

[Alison Stewart]

There are moments in the play which kind of seem like fantasy a little bit. You dance around like you're in the club. You've got some moves, by the way. Louisa, thank you. What does that moment mean for you as an actor? Is it fantasy? Is it who Jared is thinking in his head? That moment in the play?

[Louisa Jacobson]

Sure. So that moment is when we are doing a silent brainstorm. Right. So really what we were working with, with Danya was like, these boys are sort of getting horny on how smart they are and the brilliant points that are coming to their minds in this moment during their brainstorm and they're just like getting off on it. But I also think it's just like a wonderful moment of, you know, because the first half of the play can hold that kind of camp element, whereas the shift in the second half doesn't. So I think it's like a wonderful moment to lean into the joy of drag and just to speak on what Em was saying. I think historically people don't really understand how to receive drag kings or drag it in this direction. And it's kind of been really interesting to recognize that we are actually, with this show batting up a little bit in that sense in terms of digestibility for an audience. And we're just not as used to seeing women or non binary people dressing as men as we are, you know, seeing queens everywhere. And I think, what does that have to do with. I don't know. It's an interesting question. I'm like, why? And sometimes I'm like, maybe, maybe it's because historically, as a society, we don't take women as seriously. They're like the butt of the joke. And so to lean into that with queens is like, it makes sense that that's more funny and more digestible to people. We. We can make fun of women and it's.

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think it's threatening. I think, I think, I think I want to also acknowledge that what we're doing isn't, isn't necessarily easy. And I hope that when people see the show, they can come to it. With a curiosity about what does it mean that actually as female or trans or non binary bodies, we're on stage doing this? What does it cost us to inhabit masculinity? What's it an invitation for? Yeah, and I really hope people can meet us there and get curious about what we're actually saying rather than freaking out at us in blazes and ties.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting because the action takes place in one room. That door closes, and we are all in that room together. What does the action do for you as a writer? What creatively does it do for you as a writer to put all the action in one place?

[Emmanuel Matana]

I think I'm, I'm really interested in what happens behind closed doors. I mean, we, we talk so much about locker room culture and about, about the things that we, we don't get to see often. And I think so, so often now what we're seeing with, with MeToo and all these really high profile cases is that powerful men protect other powerful men and that so often we're not privy to this. And so for me, I guess I was interested in, okay, well, what, what send up can we do of what is happening behind closed doors and how exciting can that be? That. That's a pressure cooker. When no one comes in, no one leaves, they're stuck dealing with the thing for an hour.

[Alison Stewart]

We're not gonna say what the thing is, but there comes a moment when they kind of turn on each other at one point. Why did you want this show to take a little bit of a darker turn?

[Emmanuel Matana]

Because I think as a society, we don't know how to have these bigger conversations. I think I started writing the show as a comedy about men dealing with feminism. And then I realized that we. I'm, I'm, I'm very happy to name. What we're actually talking about in the show is we are talking about sexual assault, and we're talking about the fact that men don't get held accountable for their actions. Um, and that what starts, what starts as something really light is actually a much bigger conversation. What I'm interested in with the turn from comedy to drama is what do we let men get away with when we thought they were harmless boys? What do we laugh at and in so doing, actually enable it to continue to happen? And how do we as a society begin to have those conversations that are challenging and difficult? And my hope is that laughter is part of that.

[Alison Stewart]

Louisa, when people leave the show, go have a drink, have a cup of coffee, what do you hope they talk about? What questions do you hope they. They bring up to one another?

[Louisa Jacobson]

I think I hope that the conversation is less about like what do you think happened was how much can I speak about here? I don't want to give away anything. I want it less to be about like a whodunit and more a contemplation on what are the ways that we do a disservice to ourselves and to young boys in society. Like, how do we. Does social ostracization, did I say that right? And cancel culture? Does that actually help in terms of making men feel safe saying the wrong things or does it make it worse? What are ways that. Where we can hold men accountable more? What are ways that. You know, I also think that there was one day we were rehearsing the show, particularly the end, which is sort of a jarring moment. But I had all these emotions that started flooding up after that and I think I just realized that I wasn't alone in terms of my experience with consent or lack thereof, experience of my friends. You know, it just kind of hit me that unfortunately it's all too familiar among way too many young women and non binary people. And so I hope that people also come away from this feeling like seen and held. Yeah, all those things.

[Emmanuel Matana]

My favorite quote is that art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. And I think that's really what this show is doing. We're trying to speak some truth to power and we're also trying to show up for female and non binary people and let them know we're here.

[Alison Stewart]

From the name of the play is Trophy Boy. It's playing at the MCC Theater over on West 52nd until July 27th. Emmanuel Matana and Louisa Jacobson, thanks for being here.

[Louisa Jacobson]

Thank you for having us.

[Alison Stewart]

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[Emmanuel Matana]

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[Alison Stewart]

Changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because Multicare has been here.

[Emmanuel Matana]

Guided by a single purpose, making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering.

[Alison Stewart]

With local communities to grow programs and services and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more at multicare. Org.