← All Of It with Alison Stewart
All Of It with Alison Stewart
Dressing for the 'Hunger Games' with Costume Designer Trish Summerville
00:18:15
We speak with the costume designer of the new 'Hunger Games' prequel film.
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- [00:01]
A
Oh my gosh. Have you been to Marshall's lately? They have all the brand name and designer pieces you love, but without the jaw dropping price tags. Alright, so here's the you should never have to compromise between quality and price. And at Marshall's, you don't have to. Marshall's believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff and that's why their buyers hustle around the clock. To make it happen for you, visit a Marshalls store near you or shop online@marshalls.com.
- [00:33]
B
Listener support WNYC Studios this is all of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. If you're planning on seeing a movie over the holiday weekend and you choose the latest installment of the Hunger Games franchise, take a close look at our next guest's work. This time, a prequel tells the origin story of future dictator President Snow. And like in all the other Hunger Games films, the costuming in this one isn't just nice to look at, it's all part of the politics of this fictional world. So it's fitting that 10 years after her work on the Hunger Games Catching Fire, Oscar nominated costume designer Trish Somerville has returned to the franchise. Set more than 60 years before Katniss Everdeen was selected for the Hunger Games, the new film follows a young Coriolanus Snow as a student at the Capitol's prestigious academic academy. His once great family is now in economic ruin and he is strapped for cash. Luckily, an opportunity arises. Win the prize for being the best mentor at the 10th annual Hunger Games, Coriolanus is assigned a tribute, a singing rebel from District 12 named Lucy Gray Baird. His job is to keep Lucy Gray alive as she fights the other tributes to death in the arena. But is it just money motivating him or is it something else? From Lucy Gray's rainbow dress to the blood red gloves worn by one menacing character, costume designer Trish Somerville's use of color and detail helped bring the story to life. The Hunger Games the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is in theaters now and Trish Somerville joins us to discuss her work. Nice to meet you, Trish.
- [02:18]
C
Nice to meet you as well. And thanks for such a lovely introduction.
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B
There you go. We got people in the place, we've got them in the scene. On any project when you get the call to join a new project, what's among the first things you do?
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C
Kind of one of the first things I do. If I don't already know the director and their body of work, I definitely look at that and like with this one and several Other projects I've worked on are based off of books. So then I grab the book and start reading the book, if I haven't already read the book and then going through the script. So it's kind of in that order.
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B
How does it differ working on a fantasy series versus some of the other period work that you've done with fantasy?
- [03:00]
C
You know, it's kind of. It's all based on imagination and what you can conjure up in your brain. So, you know, that's kind of one of the things I always say that's so great about books is, you know, we can read a book and we can all picture in our head what we think things look like. The world, the environment, the characters. So with fantasy, it's pretty much that same kind of thing with. With period films. I do a lot of research on the actual history and the actual period, and you want to be really true and authentic to that. So on the complete opposite with like this, with the. With the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, I was able to talk with Francis Lawrence and figure out what he envisioned the film to look like, what he wanted the world to look like. And we were leaning into, you know, Americana, 1940s to 1950s. But since we don't really have a specific time and place, since we're fantasy and sci fi, we could put a little spin on that. So we didn't have to be authentic to that particular period. So we could kind of play with it a bit, have things look period, but then put kind of a futuristic twist on it.
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B
What's an example of like a fabrication you chose, which was of the period, but then you were able to make it postmodern and futuristic.
- [04:11]
C
That is an excellent question. So some of the characters, like, say, you know, like Tigress, who, for this character, she is in the later. The books that have, you know, were previous books, but the later films, if you're going in chronological order and her character is a fashion designer, owns an atelier in the Mockingjays. And so for this, I wanted to use a very prominent designer from the 40s and 50s, Lily Ann, and use those silhouettes of that 1940s, you know, women's wear and women's designs. And with that, I took and extended the shoulders and raised the shoulders quite a bit and put really intense shoulder pads in and kind of curve them out. And then on the outside of the. The dress, all the seams, I sewed the seams outward instead of inward so that they look a bit frayed. And then we went in and airbrushed all the edges of the. The jacket and all the edges of the skirt so that it looked like it was maybe originally a really dark fuchsia. But she'd had this fabric for so long that it had faded. So kind of that was like one of the best examples of that mashup of, you know, authentic 1940s shape that we kind of tweaked and made it a bit more futuristic.
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B
My guest is Trish Somerville. She's the costume designer for the Hunger Games, the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. It's in theaters now. So Lucy Gray's rainbow dress is a very important focal part of the film, and it's also the only costume that the character has for, like, about half of the film. And, you know, it's already reached that iconic stage because there are versions of it online or copycats or people are making their versions of it online already. What description did you have for that particular outfit?
- [06:05]
C
Kind of. Well, in the books and in the script, it just keeps referencing several times, this rainbow ruffle dress with pockets, that was her mother's. And for me, typically, like, I'm not big on a lot of color and definitely not multiple colors together. So that was a design challenge that I really had to take some time and wrap my head around and wanting to be very true to what Suzanne Collins, the author of all the books, what she kind of was envisioning. And then also, you know, trying to think of what would really be, you know, as you mentioned, with the fans and recreating all these costumes that they do and cosplay, and, you know, we do take our fans very seriously. So just trying to think also what I could present to the fans that they would like. And then, number one, I have to be true to myself and be really satisfied with the design because it. It will live for time and all eternity if it chooses to, you know, so. So, yeah, so that one was quite a challenge to get around. And. And the biggest thing I wanted to do was I wanted to make it really authentic to Lucy Gray's character and this covey. These musicians that she hangs out with, and. And it being her mother's dress. So I wanted it to look like an heirloom or heritage and really kind of giving it a lot of life and a lot of aging and distressing on it. So it didn't look like this bright, flashy, brand new dress, because that wouldn't really be authentic to, you know, the descriptions in the book. So, yeah, that was probably one of the more challenging pieces in the beginning was figuring out exactly what I wanted it to look like. Once we had Rachel Cass figuring out what, because she's quite petite, what would work on her frame really well. And then I also had to take into consideration, as you mentioned, all the action that she has in this dress. You know, I mean, for us shooting it. She wore this dress for weeks as we're shooting the games and fighting in the game. So it had to be something that I made in pieces. So once it ripped or was torn, you know, got really too dirty that we couldn't clean it. We could interchange other pieces out and not have to get rid of a whole dress. So I made it in several pieces. And you know, then you have to have all the multiples made. Because we don't shoot films in chronological or in script order. We shoot as we have locations or so it's all dependent on many things. So like that dress, we had to make 10 of those pieces so that we had enough to cover all the stages of it getting distressed. And then enough for Rachel and enough for her stuntwoman. Right.
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B
Because you can't go to one scene that was four months ago. And now the dress looks in a completely different shape on the next scene.
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C
Exactly. Or the dress is completely destroyed.
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B
I remember interviewing and I'm forgetting his name, but I remember the movie. It was the costume director of Nightmare Alley. And just. I'm sure you know his name.
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C
I do. And this is terrible because I'm friends with him, but I'm so I'm just spacing right now. Oh, well, we'll get.
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B
He'll come to us. Somebody on my team will find out. But I remember something he said has stuck with me and about how he drove his team crazy looking for buttons. Because a button on a screen is, you know, a foot high. Could be a foot high in a close up. Luis Siquerra.
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C
Yes. Louis. Who's extremely talented and also a very nice person and very hard working. So I appreciate him a lot. Yeah.
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B
And I thought that has always stuck with me. A button. What was a detail like that for you in one of your designs that you knew that it was going to be enormous on the screen so you needed to get it right.
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C
Oh, God, it's all of it. I mean, it's the same thing like Luis is saying. It's like your team gets so over hearing, you know, how the minutias that we love. Because I keep saying that I'm like, you know, because a lot of people now watch things on their phone, but you know, I love Film. And I love filmmaking, so I'm always joking, like, it looks fine right now, but when it's the size of a house, you know, how are we going to feel? That would have probably been definitely, maybe, you know, I mean, again, sadly, probably these buttons, I mean, in, in the story, in the book and in the script, you know, there's this reference about. And it's an opening scene, so it's, it's, it's Snow, you know, getting dressed. And Tigress has remade his father's shirt. And there's much detail in the book about how she pulls these tiles from the wall to make him. These buttons for his shirt, to just make his shirt look more expensive and make it look new and presentable. And so we, I had designed these buttons and in our. We call it the patina department, who are, I call them magical unicorns that can age and die and create anything. We had this really amazing patina department that I went into and showed them what I wanted the buttons to look like. And they hand cast and hand painted all these buttons because we had multiples of the shirts. And then I took the button that we wanted to use and I brought it to the production designer, Yuli, and. And so he could incorporate it into the wall in Snow's bathroom. So that was probably one of the ones because it is so described into detail in the book. And it's such a small thing, but, you know, you really want to. You know, you strive to do your very best on everything. And so when you can't do your very best on everything, you at least have some. A lot of wins and hopefully not too many loses.
- [11:33]
B
Well, it also shows just that example, shows how departments on films are not silos, they're integrated. You gotta talk to the production designer, you have to talk to the stunt people, because that dress, she's gotta be able to run it or her double needs to be able to run it. Seems like there's a whole lot of interaction between departments.
- [11:53]
C
There is. And I think that's what I love about filmmaking is I, I don't want to work in isolation. I love being part of a tribe of people that want to tell a story. And I think, though, you know, with, with costume design, I'm very passionate about it, but I'm equally as passionate about what sets look like and what are the props going to be and, and who the actors are. And I think that, you know, you have to work together as a team so that the characters that I'm dressing represent and work well in this World, you know, you don't want. I don't want my costumes to be the thing that sticks out. I want it to just be this beautiful story that you can look at and you're enraptured in the whole story. And then later you might think, like, oh, that dress was really cool because of this. Or, like, you know, that location was amazing because of those incredible statues. I think it's. It's really important to work together. I feel the same way about, you know, hair and makeup as well. It's. We have to create this character together so that the head goes with the body, you know, and the body fits in the world.
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B
My guest is Trish Somerville. She's the costume designer on the Hunger the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. It's in theaters now. So people who saw the original Hunger Games films will know that President Snow.
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C
What?
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B
The suits he was wearing these elaborate suits with a white rose pinned to his lapel. How did you want to nod to his style? Through his origin outfits, through the outfits of him as a young man. That makes sense.
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C
Yeah. So. Yeah, so there are. So there are a couple of things, like, with, you know, what was amazing, you know, I did Catching Fire, and Donald Sutherland was in the original Hunger Games, which I wasn't a part of. And so when he came in, he brought this boutonniere, this little lapel pin that was his personal item that he'd brought to Giudiano, the first designer, and wanted to use it. And that's what he put the rose in, which I thought was really, you know, really beautiful. And I love when actors have these little, you know, really little kind of little secrets that they have that they feel a kinship to. And so, you know, that became transferring to all the movies after that. And so for Tom's Carrot, Tom, who plays Snow, we really wanted to, you know, have that representation of the rose which the grandmother grows. And we get to see that in this film. And then it was trying to, you know, makes this young Snow his own person in the beginning, but as we see the progression of him growing into a man and who he's eventually going to become as Snow, as President Snow. It was towards the end, I really wanted to bring in this silhouette of these really strong shoulders, this long overcoat, and also tying into this really bright kind of this deep Bardot color. And I had dressed Donald Sutherland in a coat in that same kind of in the Catching Fire film. So there was a nice little tie in there.
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B
Viola Davis's character as the head game maker is Outrageous. A mad scientist with this laboratory. One of the distinct out parts of her outfit are these bright red gloves she wears sometimes. What is the thought behind the bright red gloves? And how does it fit in with what we get to know about her character or what you want us to understand about her?
- [15:12]
C
Well, Viola, I can't say enough amazing things about her in general. She is just completely incredible to be able to work with her. She was very busy on her Woman King press tour at the time, and so we got her three days before she had to work. And her first week of work, she wears three costumes. So we're quite busy getting her stuff ready. And with the lab costume, um, I'm a big fan of red, and a lot of directors don't like red because it does really pull your eye, and it kind of can steal a scene if it's not used appropriately. And for her in this lab, when Francis and usually showed me what the lab looked like and it was very cold and stark, I thought, oh, my God, I can use red here. And I wanted her lab coat to look as if, like, blood was just draining down. So she's full of blood, and then the blood kind of dissipates. And so, again, the patina team did this beautiful job doing a degradation dye on the lab coat. And then knowing she has these stitching seams with snow, I wanted her hands to. You know, I was really into these red latex gloves. We had white and we had red, but I was really into the red ones. And I just like the fact that, you know, there's this really beautiful Cheshire cat smile that Dr. Gall has, but there's this really underlying evil kind of, as you mentioned, mad scientists. So I just thought that that's. You know, these red gloves are so off putting that I thought, you know, it really worked with the whole thing of being in the lab. And I didn't want her just to have regular, you know, latex gloves or rubber gloves in a lab. And I like that you did mention it, because, oddly, it was such a fan favorite for everybody on set. Even the producer, Nina Jacobson wanted the gloves, like, and all the things you designed. You're like, really? It's the gloves that everybody wants.
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B
It's really funny. We've got about a minute left, and of course, I'm gonna ask you an essay question now, Right. How is fashion political in the Hunger Games films?
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C
Well, I mean, it. We. We try through all the films, or I say I tried through the films that I've done with the Hunger Games to really show all the levels of what is still existing, has always existed and levels of society and caste systems. And particularly in this, this time, you know the difference between what's in the Capitol and what's in the districts. For this film, since, you know, the. It's only the 10th Hunger Games, I really wanted to show the happiness in District 12 before they've had so many years of the brutality of the Hunger Games. I wanted to show this life. And since we got to have these amazing dancing and singing scenes in the Hob, I wanted to be more colorful there and patterns there and all these hand details and just show these people that are so connected to nature and to the earth about how they live quite happily in these environments outside of the Capitol. And this time around, keeping the Capitol much more communistic, much more strict and much more classic in fashion and controlled and contained. So I think it was like they're showing that just the difference in the life. Yeah.
- [18:37]
B
My guest has been Trish Somerville, costume designer for the Hunger Games the Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Thank you so much for being with us, Trish.
- [18:45]
C
Thank you, Alison, for having me and having such great questions. I really appreciate it.
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B
That's all.
- [18:49]
C
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B
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Oh my gosh. Have you been to Marshall's lately? They have all the brand name and designer pieces you love, but without the jaw dropping price tags. Alright, so here's the. You should never have to compromise between quality and price. And at Marshalls, you don't have to. Marshall's believes everyone deserves access to the good stuff. And that's why their buyers hustle around the clock. To make it happen for you, visit a Marshalls store near you or shop online@marshalls.com.