Podcast Summary: "Lights Out: Nat 'King' Cole" on All Of It with Dulay Hill and Patricia McGregor

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host: Alison Stewart
• Episode: Dulé Hill and Patricia McGregor on 'Lights Out: Nat 'King' Cole'
• Release Date: June 12, 2025
• Description: ALL OF IT is a show about culture and its consumers, exploring the intricate relationship between creators and their cultural impact.

Introduction to the Episode

[00:31 - 02:21]
Host Alison Stewart introduces the episode by setting the stage for a discussion about the theatrical production "Lights Out: Nat 'King' Cole". She briefly highlights Nat King Cole's transition from a beloved jazz pianist and TV show host to the challenges he faced due to racism in the mid-1950s. The show, performed at the New York Theatre Workshop, delves into Cole's psyche and the societal obstacles he encountered, featuring Dulay (Dulé) Hill as Nat King Cole and exploring his internal and external struggles.

Overview of "Lights Out: Nat King Cole"

[02:21 - 02:32]
Alison Stewart welcomes the guests:

• Dulé Hill: Portrays Nat King Cole.
• Patricia McGregor: Co-writer and director of the show.

Development and Creation of the Show

[02:32 - 04:22]
Patricia McGregor shares the genesis of the project:

• Originated when Zach Berkman received a Pew Heritage Grant to work on a show about Nat King Cole.
• Collaboration began with Colman Domingo, focusing on uncovering the untold aspects of Cole's life beyond his public persona.
• Emphasis on exploring the personal costs and internal conflicts Nat faced, particularly in relation to racism and his TV show's cancellation due to lack of national advertisers.
• The casting of Dulay Hill and Daniel J. Watts was pivotal, allowing the narrative to center around Cole's interactions with figures like Sammy Davis Jr., who acts as a challenging figure in his life.

Themes Explored in the Show

[04:22 - 05:43]
Patricia McGregor discusses her fascination with the duality of public icons and their private struggles:

• Humanizing Icons: "We don't think of them as full human beings who get scared, angry, frustrated."
• The Cost of Grace: Similar to Martin Luther King Jr., highlighting the personal toll of achieving greatness.
• Relevance of Nat's Struggles Today: The show's central question, inspired by Cole's own doubts, "Was it enough?" remains pertinent in contemporary discussions about social justice and personal fulfillment.

Storytelling and Structure

[08:14 - 15:53]
Patricia McGregor explains the non-linear, dream-like structure of the play:

• Framework: Set in Nat King Cole's dressing room, offering intimate glimpses into his private life.
• Narrative Style: Incorporates elements akin to "A Christmas Carol" and "It's a Wonderful Life," utilizing flashbacks and memory sequences to explore various facets of Cole's experiences.
• Fragmented Reality: Reflects the tumultuous balance between Cole's public success and personal traumas, creating a "fever dream" that encapsulates his internal conflict.
• Play with Music: While including Cole's music, the production is classified as a play with music rather than a traditional musical, emphasizing storytelling over musical numbers.

Performance Insights from Dulay Hill

[11:30 - 18:36]
Dulé Hill delves into his portrayal of Nat King Cole:

• Character Depth: "Mr. Cole... did what he felt he should be doing, not so much in response to other people."
• Personal Connection: Relates Cole's journey to his own, emphasizing authenticity and staying true to one's inner voice.
• Mannerisms: Focuses on subtle behaviors such as Cole's hand movements and intentional speech patterns to embody the character authentically.
• Legacy and Responsibility: Emphasizes the importance of passing on lessons and maintaining the integrity of Cole's legacy, comparing life's journey to a relay race.

Musical Elements and Choreography

[18:36 - 23:27]
The discussion highlights a pivotal tap dance number within the show:

• Tap Dance as Expression: Utilizes tap to symbolize Cole's pent-up emotions and the cultural legacy of African rhythms.
• Creative Process: The tap sequence was meticulously developed with choreographer Jared Grimes and involved integrating West African polyrhythms to deepen the narrative's emotional impact.
• Audience Engagement: The tap number serves as a "Vesuvius purging of a truth," allowing the audience to engage deeply with the underlying themes of pain and liberation.
• Critical Reception: Audience members and participants, including Cole's daughters, have praised the performance for its emotional resonance and authentic portrayal of Cole's struggles.

Audience and Impact

[23:27 - 25:01]
Dulé Hill reflects on post-show discussions and audience interactions:

• Themes Resonating with Audiences: Conversations often center around Cole's journey, the parallels to current social issues, and personal connections to the character's struggles.
• Art as Expression: Emphasizes that art serves as a medium to express and process life's challenges, allowing audiences to explore and discuss complex emotions and historical contexts.
• Engagement Through Art: The production encourages audiences to lean into difficult conversations and reflect on their own lives and societal structures.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[25:01 - 25:20]
Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by thanking Dulay Hill and Patricia McGregor for their insights into "Lights Out: Nat 'King' Cole", inviting listeners to experience the thought-provoking production at the New York Theatre Workshop until June 29th.

Notable Quotes:

• Patricia McGregor [04:28]: "What Nat King Cole is really questioning at this point. He's at a crossroads."
• Dulé Hill [07:11]: "When you look back on the choices you've made and you see where you are, you know, did I do it right?"
• Patricia McGregor [08:31]: "We give you all of that virtuosic entertainment. Yet, we are telling a story."
• Dulé Hill [16:21]: "Stay true to yourself. Know what's going on on the inside, that inner voice that you're hearing telling you how to navigate life's journey."

Conclusion: This episode of All Of It offers an in-depth exploration of "Lights Out: Nat 'King' Cole," highlighting the intricate storytelling, thematic depth, and powerful performances that shed light on the personal and societal challenges faced by Nat King Cole. Through insightful discussions with Dulay Hill and Patricia McGregor, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the production's artistic vision and its relevance to both historical and contemporary cultural dialogues.