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- [00:08]
A
This is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. It's really great for you to be with us on the first day of our fall pledge drive. We appreciate it. Coming up on today's show, we're going to hear about a blockbuster new exhibition that looks at big art stars of New York in the 1980s. We'll speak with Geeta Gandbier, the director of the new documentary the Perfect Neighbor. And we'll learn some local history with Thomas Slaughter, the author of the Sewards of New A biography of a leading American political family. That's the plan. So let's get this started with a new podcast about kids and young people caught up in the criminal justice system. The podcast, Ear Hustle got Its start in 2017 in California's San Quentin State Prison. It takes its title from slang for eavesdropping or just being plain nosy about. And that's what the episodes, they tend to feel like. Ear Hustle tells the stories of people in prison in their own words and reveals the connections between life inside and outside. It was the first podcast created and produced in a prison, and it would go on to win a Dupont Award and also be a finalist for a Pulitzer. Now Ear Hustle has an all new, all New York series focusing on kids who are involved in the criminal justice system. It's called the Loop. It took two years to make, and its first episode is out now. Joining us to talk about it are co hosts and co creators Nigel Poor and Earlonne Hoods. Nigel and Earlonne, welcome to all of it.
- [02:00]
B
Thank you.
- [02:00]
C
Thank you. Thanks for having us on this.
- [02:02]
A
Yeah. So the Loop is the first Ear Hustle project to be set outside the world of adult incarceration. Nigel, why did you want to shift your focus telling towards kids?
- [02:13]
C
Well, we are always looking for new challenges. And for the last how many years, Earlonne?
- [02:17]
A
Ten.
- [02:17]
B
Almost.
- [02:18]
C
Almost ten years we've been doing stories about adults in prison. And we've been thinking about how could we do this? And then we were contacted by a group of researchers from Michigan who are on a project about this drama club that was happening inside a juvenile facility in New York. And they asked us if we wanted to be part of their research. And it was sort of like kismet. We were like, absolutely. So that's. We'd been thinking about it. We didn't really know how to do it. And then this invitation fell in our laps. We said yes. We always say yes.
- [02:50]
A
Earlonne, what does the loop mean?
- [02:53]
B
The loop just means basically, you know, sometimes the system goes around in circles, you know, or a person go through the system and, you know, a lot of times. So that was. It was crazy because that was something that was said in the. In the episode. And usually we name our episodes after something that's said in it.
- [03:10]
A
Do you guys have that moment? You're like, that's the title. That's going to be the title.
- [03:15]
C
Yeah. You know, we were hoping. Oh, gosh. That this wouldn't be a loop. And I think that's one of the things, one of the difficult things we learned in this series, that the loop is really part of this issue. So when Earlonne said. I think Earlonne, you're the one who said it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it ends up being appropriate, but, you know, that's also difficult. That's troubling.
- [03:35]
A
The first episode of the loop takes us inside a juvenile facility in Brooklyn called the Crossroads Youth Detention Facility. And you take us to an improv class called Drama Club. Nigel, what is the goal of the club?
- [03:51]
C
Okay, so the idea of Drama Club is to have these young folks think about conflict resolution in a different way. And if improv and drama club can help them learn that, and, you know, it's also to give them something to do inside, there isn't a lot for the kids to do. So I think that's also an important thing. But really the overarching idea is conflict resolution, and it's fascinating to see it in action.
- [04:17]
A
Oh, what was fascinating?
- [04:19]
C
Well, no, so.
- [04:21]
B
So the fascinating part is like, does improv really creates a setting of, like, rehabilitation with individuals? You know, it really breaks down the walls that's up between people that may not be even talking, but when you do these little. What's those little zip zap zams.
- [04:39]
C
Zip zam.
- [04:40]
B
When you do those little activities, you know, individuals, you know, break out of whoever they professing to be and just be kids again, you know?
- [04:47]
C
Yeah. Cause Earlonne was talking about, you know, going in there and everyone has a mask on, and it's very hard to get to peel that. So I remember the first drama club, we were in there. The drama club teachers were in there. The kids came in, they were so not interested. Like, it was not a great vibe. And I was like, for these poor teachers, this is never going to work. And the kids were pretty sullen for the first exercise. And then they started doing these games and it was so beautiful. Like, the kids faces just lit up and they were smiling. You could see that they were actually kids. Their body language got all open. They were inclusive. And I just found myself smiling and like, so it was so cool to witness that change because really, I was like this, Allison, this is gonna be painful.
- [05:34]
B
Cause remember when we first got there, Nigel, we seen a play. It was more of the end of one of the courses. We seen a play and that's what got us like, oh, okay.
- [05:42]
C
Yeah, yeah, it was. And the other thing is, I mean, Earlonne and I were like, please don't bring us into this. We don't want to have to do these improvs. And I was really nervous. My stomach was hurting. And then before, I was laughing and being goofy too. So you realize it worked on everybody. It was really joyful. In a place that joy is, you know, that's not a big commodity in there.
- [06:02]
A
Earlonne. The first episode establishes the five rules of drama club. What are the rules? And then, you know, why are they important?
- [06:12]
B
Ooh wee. Yeah, I mean, you know, of course rules are always important for some type of discipline, you know, and thank you very much, Addison, for putting me on the spot. Sorry to buy some time here. Yeah, I'm buying time here. I know. It's yes and yes and who? What where? Support. Support your partner.
- [06:31]
C
Make your partner look good.
- [06:32]
B
Make your partner look good. No violence. And what am I missing?
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C
You got this one.
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B
I can't think of the.
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C
Where's the.
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A
Where's the.
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B
Oh, where's the conflict?
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C
Where's the conflict?
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B
Yeah, where's the conflict?
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C
We did it. See, we made our partners look good. That's my favorite one.
- [06:48]
B
Thank you. I appreciate that, Nigel.
- [06:50]
C
Well, we both think each other look good.
- [06:51]
B
And I know I probably sent them out of order, though.
- [06:53]
C
Yeah, but you got them.
- [06:54]
A
But you got them. The Loop is a new six part series from Ear Hustle focusing on kids who are involved in the criminal justice systems. Its first episode is out now. It takes place in the Crossroads Youth detention facility in Brooklyn. Joining us to discuss it are co host and co creator Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods. Let's play a little bit of the first episode that kind of sets up how the kids get involved in drama club. This is Tiffany Cruz. She goes by Tiny. And she's talking about how she got introduced to the program while she was at Rikers. Let's listen.
- [07:27]
D
The main part that I liked was the snacks, like outside snacks. Like they'll bring like Oreos or stuff like that. I would love that because, like, it reminds me of home. So I would Always go so I could rack up my snacks and, like, put in my bucket so I could have it for later. And then, like, after a while, I was like, all right, I was starting to open up. Like, I kept seeing the familiar faces. I kept noticing, like, they always do a check in and they play games and they do the scene work. I was not ready for the scene work right away because it was like, it was out of my comfort zone. I never did that. I found it kind of corny in the beginning. Like, you know, like, I was a hood girl, so it was, like, kind of weird for me. But the main thing that I really liked about it was they would always come up to me and be like, are you okay? Like, what's up? Like, you know, always checking up on me. And I like that because it was like, damn. Like, in this nasty ass jail, all the cos was horrible. There was meanish and like, this nice ass lady's coming up to me, just really asking me, like, how I'm feeling. I was like, oh, wow, somebody cared.
- [08:21]
A
That takes a wild turn. It starts with snacks. It talks about how she's feeling, and then it talks about how someone just showed her a bit of kindness.
- [08:32]
C
Yeah, no, it's not in that clip. It goes on a little bit more. And she says that this makes me teary. She said, the woman sat down next to me. She said she didn't sit in front of me. She sat next to me and talked to me. And it's like those small gestures that we're always looking for in stories that mean so much. Those details which show the possibility of change and connection and surprise.
- [08:55]
A
Earlonne, we heard that there are some. There were some challenges in starting this up for y'. All. What did you think was the hardest challenge for the kids involved? And then what is the hardest challenge for the adults involved with Drama Club?
- [09:08]
B
I think the hardest challenge always is gonna be that, you know, if you don't spend enough time in a place, the kids won't get to know you. You know what I'm saying? You'll just be, what, a spectator? Or you just come in and see them here and there. But for kids to be comfortable, they have to see you on a regular basis, you know, so we used to go in there quite often, and the kids got to know us a little bit. So, you know, not just. Not just that, but also with the team of Drama club, you know, they kind of. They kind of have this big brother, big sister type relationship, but also, you know, in lines of a disciplinarian as well as in lines of a teacher, you know, to try to. To try to teach something of substance. And I think it's definitely breaking down what those kids go through, you know, or the drama that the kids may go through in their regular life. So I know it was a challenge, but I think. I think they doing a great job.
- [10:07]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [10:08]
A
Nigel, I have to ask you. Interviewing teenagers is hard. It can be hard.
- [10:16]
B
You should see her face.
- [10:20]
C
I can't lie. It was really challenging for me, and I think it will come across in the series. I've interviewed adults for a pretty long time, and I think I know how to operate in that world, and I feel very comfortable. Teenagers 1 are in a very different place. They can be very cut off from their emotions. And also, I wonder how you think about this, Allison. It's hard to. I don't want to push teenagers in a way that I'm not sure they're going to be comfortable with. With an adult, I feel like they can take care of themselves. And if it gets tricky, you know, they are going to be able to negotiate it. I don't. I can't trust that the same with a younger person. And so I'm at once a little worried. I also a little intimidated because, man, they can. They see right through you and they don't hold back. So I think maybe it was, you know, I think it was still challenging for Earlonne, too. But.
- [11:13]
A
What challenges did you have, Earlonne?
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B
I was at home. I was.
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A
This is.
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C
Remember, make your partner look good.
- [11:19]
B
I'm gonna make my partner look. Because, you know, the difference between me and my partner is that I came from the juvenile hall facility. So I kind of understand just on a different level what that's like, you know, being in there. But yeah, Nigel, she was. She was. She.
- [11:35]
C
She.
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B
After. After maybe what, the first few times, you know, she was. I. She was. I. But it's. It's just, you know, being able to communicate, you know, that's it. That's it.
- [11:45]
C
Yeah. And this is sort of a side note, but one thing that's really, to me different with this season is that Earlonne, you learn a lot more about Earlonne's experience. We don't talk too much about ourselves in the work that we do, but because what Earlonne just mentioned, him experiencing this, we learn a lot more about what he went through. And, you know, it comes across in the way he talks to the kids and what he talks to them about. So that's kind of a nice bonus of this series.
- [12:09]
A
Yeah. Earlonne, without giving too much away, how has your history having been incarcerated, how did it help you talk to the kids?
- [12:17]
B
Well, I mean, of course you can somewhat identify with the kids, but you can't really because you don't know where they come from, what they've been through, you know what I'm saying? And even though we may have similar, similar backgrounds or, you know, similar histories, it's not the same. So I can't never go in there and thinking like, I know what you're going through, because it'd be way bigger than that, you know.
- [12:38]
C
But you have that sensitivity to know that.
- [12:40]
B
Yeah, of course, yeah. You can't, you can't just go in there thinking you know it all. Cause you've been there, you know what I'm saying? You definitely was on different sides or different struggles. You. So it just gives me one leg up to say, you know, I spent 27 years in prison.
- [12:55]
C
Yeah. What were their faces like when you would say that?
- [12:57]
B
They started thinking like, damn, I ain't been alive for what, 18 years? You know what I'm saying? So that pretty much. And it's, you know, it's sad that the individual had to be away for 27 years, but in these environments, it helped the conversation move forward because people, people look at their situations and like, oh, if he can survive it, maybe I can too, you know, and that I, I use that in that, in that scenario, you know.
- [13:26]
A
Joining us to discuss the Loop are co hosts and co creators Nigel Poor and Earlonne Woods. Is a new six part series from Ear Hustle focusing on kids who were involved in the criminal justice system. It's out now. It takes place at the Crossroads youth detention facility in Brooklyn. In its first episode, I should say, I understand that you could only record people over 18, is that right?
- [13:48]
B
Yes. Anybody younger than that, you need the approval of the judge, the approval of their parents. And it was just a lot. So it was easier to talk to individuals that were of age and we.
- [13:58]
C
Didn'T actually know that going in. So a lot of times doing the work we do, we face challenges and we always have to pivot. So that was like, oh boy, that's going to limit what we do. But it allowed us to follow a sort of a smaller cohort of kids through their experience. I mean, certainly we could talk to kids that were under 18. We just couldn't record them. Yeah. So we had to make the best of it. It did allow us to talk with more of the people who actually work at Crossroads. We have a very Difficult time talking to people who work in prisons. It's just difficult to get them on the microphone. We had great conversations with the people that work there, and I'm really excited to share that with listeners. Boy, the people that. A lot of the people that work there are pretty amazing.
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B
Yeah. The YDSs, the OEMs, they whole little crew.
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C
YDS.
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B
Ideas. Youth Specialist. No, man. Now you got me. I forgot.
- [14:53]
C
Sorry. You're a development specialist.
- [14:55]
B
Yeah, youth development specialist. And. And, you know, the cold part about it is that people might not see this, but, you know, the YDS is, you know, they really like. They like brother and sisters, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're more on the. On the level of teaching.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Mentors, you know, and. And really take the time and work with these kids one on one, you know, So I gave him props because I'm tell you, it was. It was. It was a. It was an eye opener. You know, they. They literally there to help.
- [15:23]
C
Yeah. You know, and of course, they have to also be disciplinarians. They have to. They're like. They're like really good parents. And a lot of the staff that we talk to are also from those neighborhoods.
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B
Yeah, exactly.
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C
They really understand those kids. And I was just grateful that we were able to get them on the mic. As I said, we're always trying to get correctional officers in prisons on the.
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B
Mics, and it's really hide behind their PIOs.
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C
Like the Union.
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A
Was it different for you both being from California, navigating the New York system? The.
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B
The lingo was a little different, you know. Yeah.
- [15:58]
C
The accents, hall, they were. Sorry, Brooklyn people. I love the accent, but. Yeah, it took us a while.
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B
It took us a while, but it was. It was similar. You know, even the. Like, one of our last episodes is Dylan and Rikers. You know what I'm saying? So it was very. The programs that they have and the support that they have, but I think we were welcomed with open arms.
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C
Did you get all the slang?
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B
I got most of it, you know.
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A
Yeah, tell me about some of the slang that's different.
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B
Like, Nigel just said one. We. We kept thinking they were saying, like, going to the hole or something, but they was talking about actually the halls they was in.
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A
Oh, the hall versus the hole.
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C
Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're very different things. Very different. Like they see them in the hole.
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A
No, they're going.
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B
But it ain't even the hallway. It's the. It's where they. Where they actually reside at. Yeah, that little area.
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C
Okay, am I going to sound like a nerd. Had you really heard OPS before? People use. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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B
OPS is. OPS is this latest thing that's been going on in the, in the rap world. So I'm up on it.
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C
Okay. But it's not that use that much out here.
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B
The younger generation.
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C
All right.
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B
Generation.
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C
He's not going to admit he didn't know stuff. Come on.
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B
I mean, I would, I would admit. I would admit.
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C
Yeah. But yeah, there was some of that. Probably more for me than Erlon.
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A
Now, the first episode of the Loop is out, but on your website it tells us what's planned for some of the final episodes. And the last one says, and excuse me, I'm reading this, it says it takes place at the Children's Museum of Manhattan. It's described this way on your webpage. Twice a month, the museum closes its doors to the public and opens them to a select group of parents and their children. Moms and dads bused over from Rikers island in chains are uncuffed upon arrival at the museum. Wearing regular non prison clothes, they're reunited with the kids for rare, emotional, and often bittersweet visit outside of prison walls. Now, last year I interviewed the filmmaker Natalie Rae about her documentary Daughters, you know, about father and daughters dance between incarcerated dads and their daughters. And it reminded me a little bit.
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B
Of that Angela Patton.
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C
Yeah, that's such a great film.
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A
What is important about programs like this for families?
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C
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up. I was hoping we'd get to talk about it. So. It's just incredible. I'd never heard of a program where people actually get to leave prison, put on street clothes and spend time with their kids in a. In a museum that's closed. And it is just for them for that afternoon. And it allows a kind of normality, especially for the children. Like going for a kid to go visit in a prison is very traumatic. To have to go through all the clearance processes, the security, see their parents behind bars. And so they get this afternoon to just be a. A mom and a dad and kids together, laughing, eating regular food, doing stuff at the Children's Museum. It's just incredible. We visited maybe three times.
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B
Yeah, we visited a few.
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C
And we talked to the parents, the incarcerated parents and the non incarcerated parents before and after. It was just really beautiful.
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B
And the one thing I'm gonna say too is it's life changing for the person that's incarcerated because you really see what you. You are blinded from seeing when you're in society. And you caught up in the criminal lifestyle, you know, you thinking of, be it money, money, money, and not necessarily family, family, family. And then you sitting in this box and you get the opportunity to just go spend some time with your family and you, you start realizing, like, man, I should have been doing this the whole time. So it definitely changed the mindset of individuals. And then we asked cats those questions. So in that situation, I also want to give a shout out to the Robinson, the Robin Hood.
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C
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And the Children's Museum of Manhattan. It's just amazing. They do it.
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B
Yes.
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C
And you know what we try to show on Ear Hustle and what programs like the CMOM show is that you can do these things that are out of the box and nothing bad happens. And we have to take that chance more often to say yes and try. It's just so important, especially for kids.
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B
Yeah.
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A
When does episode two drop? What's it about?
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B
Oh, you just hit us. It drops next Wednesday.
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C
And that's the one about Crossroads 101.
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B
Crossroads 101.
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C
Okay. Yeah, yeah. How do things operate inside Crossroads facility?
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B
Do we, do we meet the guards on this one?
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C
Yes, we meet the YDSs.
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B
And om.
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C
Some amazing YDSs. Yeah.
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B
Landry, Taylor, T. Wright, all of them. They was cool.
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C
Yeah.
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A
I've been speaking with Nigel Poor and Earlong Woods. They are the co hosts and co founders of the podcast Ear Hustle. Their new series is called the Loop. The first episode is out now. Number two drops next week. Thank you for your time today.
- [20:44]
C
Yes. Thank you for coming.
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B
Thank you. We appreciate it. Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because MultiCare has been here guided by a single purpose, making our communities healthier.
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C
That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering.
- [21:03]
B
With local communities to grow programs and.
- [21:05]
A
Services, and expanding healthcare access to those.
- [21:09]
C
Who need it most.
- [21:11]
B
Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com special offer terms apply.