Emma Stebbins, Bethesda Fountain Sculptor and New Yorker You Should Know

Summary

Podcast Summary: All Of It – “Emma Stebbins, Bethesda Fountain Sculptor and New Yorker You Should Know”

Host: Alison Stewart, WNYC
Guest: Carli Wurzelbacher, Chief Curator, Heckscher Museum of Art
Date: October 21, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of "All of It" illuminates the life, artistry, and legacy of Emma Stebbins—the first woman to receive a public art commission in New York City and sculptor of Central Park’s iconic Bethesda Fountain. Host Alison Stewart speaks with Carli Wurzelbacher, chief curator at the Heckscher Museum of Art, about Stebbins’ work and the museum’s landmark exhibition, "Emma Stebbins: Carving Out History." The conversation reveals Stebbins' pathbreaking career, her pioneering role among women artists, her life in Rome, her representation of American laborers in sculpture, and her enduring cultural impact.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Heckscher Museum’s Connection to Emma Stebbins

• Heckscher Museum as a Stebbins Repository
  • The museum is home to the largest collection of Stebbins' works in the country, originally acquiring two sculptures in the 1920s and adding more during the pandemic, now totaling five rare works. (01:16)
  • “We were actually the first museum in the country to acquire her work… In the 1920s, we were gifted two examples of her sculptures… and during the pandemic, we were fortunate to be able to acquire three additional sculptures.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [01:16]

The Exhibition: "Emma Stebbins: Carving Out History"

• The exhibition presents 14 Stebbins sculptures plus drawings and sketches for the first time, accompanied by the first scholarly publication devoted to her art. (02:21)
• Research involved piecing together limited historical records and making discoveries such as the previously unpublished "Joseph the Dreamer" sculpture, traced to Belfast Public Library via Facebook. (03:00)
  • “Perhaps the most exciting work is called Joseph the Dreamer… we found it on Facebook… It’s in the exhibition, the first time it’s been on view in the United States ever.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [03:00–03:46]

Stebbins’ Artistic Technique and Themes

• Known for her luminous, small-to-medium marble sculptures designed for 19th-century domestic interiors—rich in detail and layered with references to ancient literature and contemporary events. (04:10)
  • “They hold the room… so detailed and intricate… She’s layering all sorts of allusions… chock full of meaning.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [04:10]

Early Life & Artistic Development

• Born in New York City to a wealthy family in 1815; little is known about her early life, and she didn’t move to Rome to become a sculptor until she was 40. (05:08)
• Unable to attend formal art school, she trained privately with various artists—her achievements are especially remarkable given these constraints. (05:22)

Life and Career in Rome: Community and Freedom

• Rome was an international art hub where Stebbins observed excavations, networked with other artists (especially American women), and enjoyed more personal and creative freedom. (05:43)
  • “Stebbins was going and watching these sculptures come out of the ground. She was very inspired by that…Also talking to…American women, who were her friends and colleagues.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [05:43–06:28]

The “Jolly Bachelors” and Personal Life

• Stebbins belonged to the "Jolly Bachelors," a group of women artists living unconventionally in Rome, often centering on actress Charlotte Cushman—Stebbins’ lifelong partner. (06:28)
• Their relationship was considered a marriage by themselves and their circle, though not legally recognized. Cushman wore a ring and described herself as “already married.” (08:05)
  • “Charlotte Cushman in one letter says to a friend, Do you not know that I am already married and I wear the band on the third finger of my left hand?” — Carli Wurzelbacher [08:05]

Gendered Challenges in Sculpture

• While sometimes celebrated, Stebbins and her female peers faced skepticism—especially accusations of relying excessively on assistants, a practice also common among male sculptors. To counter this, Stebbins and others purposefully reduced their use of assistants, limiting their productivity and professional success. (08:37)
  • “They were subject to this different type of scrutiny based on their gender.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [09:21]

Commission and Reception of Bethesda Fountain

• The commission arose through Stebbins’ social connections, especially her brother, as Central Park was being planned. She was officially hired in 1863, with the fountain unveiled in 1873. (09:48)
• The fountain, crafted in bronze at the Royal Bronze Foundry in Munich, received mixed reviews initially, some critical—possibly due to gender bias—and some appreciative. (10:57)
  • “Other people really made fun of the angel. They said she looked like someone dancing the polka…probably in part because they knew it was created by an artist who was a woman.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [10:57]

Bethesda Fountain’s Enduring Significance

• From the outset, it was iconic, appearing on postcards and in other artworks—the rare monument from that era to retain positive relevance and symbolism of peace, healing, and love. (11:56)
  • “So much of what we have inherited in our public spaces…is either forgettable or objectionable…But the Bethesda Fountain is about peace and healing and clean water and health and love. And people connect with that.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [11:56]

Stebbins’ Unconventional Subjects and the Laborer Sculptures

• The sculptures "Industry" and "Commerce," commissioned by the founder’s uncle, depict working-class American men with realism, deviating from the period’s neoclassical preference for idealized female nudes. (12:59)
  • “She decided to depict these working-class American laborers…represented the idea of commerce in the form of a sailor…industry in the form of a miner…” — Carli Wurzelbacher [12:59]

The First Male Nude by an American Woman: "The Lotus Eater"

• Created in Rome, this work required access to male nude models, which Stebbins could not have secured in New York. The public and critical response was positive, lauding her skill. (14:32)
  • “People thought it was incredibly beautiful and well done. One critic said he couldn’t believe it was by a woman…” — Carli Wurzelbacher [14:32]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Stebbins' Skill and Meaning:
  • “They are luminous…They have such presence…She’s layering all sorts of allusions and references…” — Carli Wurzelbacher [04:10]
• On LGBTQ+ Identity and Partnership:
  • “Charlotte Cushman in one letter says… ‘Do you not know that I am already married and I wear the band on the third finger of my left hand?’” — Carli Wurzelbacher [08:05]
• On American Laborers in Sculpture:
  • “So Stebbins is really pushing at conventions here by deciding to represent male laborers in the clothing that they would have worn, holding the tools that they would have used.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [13:49]
• On Bethesda Fountain’s Lasting Importance:
  • “But the Bethesda Fountain is about peace and healing and clean water and health and love. And people connect with that.” — Carli Wurzelbacher [12:22]
• On Breaking Artistic Barriers:
  • “She was the first woman to make a male nude sculpture…People thought it was beautifully done.” — Alison Stewart/Carly Wurzelbacher [14:17]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:09 – Introduction to Emma Stebbins and exhibition
• 01:16 – Wurzelbacher on the museum’s collection
• 02:21 – Exhibition research and new discoveries
• 03:00–03:46 – “Joseph the Dreamer” story
• 04:10 – Stebbins’ marble skill and symbolism
• 05:08 – Early life and move to Rome
• 05:43 – Rome’s art scene and inspiration
• 06:28 – The “Jolly Bachelors” and Charlotte Cushman
• 08:05 – Relationship and non-traditional marriage
• 08:37 – Gender-based challenges in sculpture
• 09:48 – Commissioning and installation of Bethesda Fountain
• 10:57 – Mixed reception and contemporary controversy
• 11:56 – Monument’s enduring meaning
• 12:59 – Laborer sculptures: “Industry” and “Commerce”
• 14:32 – “The Lotus Eater” and acclaim for the male nude

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers an engaging and enlightening portrait of Emma Stebbins: an artistic trailblazer, a New Yorker whose work still resonates, and a woman who carved her own path—personally and professionally—in the face of 19th-century barriers. Wurzelbacher’s research and the Heckscher Museum’s exhibition invite fresh appreciation for Stebbins’ contributions to art, culture, and public space.

---

For more, visit the Emma Stebbins exhibition at the Heckscher Museum of Art in Huntington, Long Island.

Transcript

[A]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Bethesda Fountain in Central park is a New York landmark, but it's also a historic landmark. The sculptor Emma Stebbins was the first woman to complete a public art commission in New York City history. Born to wealth in the city in 1815, Stebbins made her career in Rome, where. Where she immersed herself in a bohemian artist group of expat women. And it's where Stevins met her future wife. Stevins was noted for her first. She created the first male nude sculpture made by an American woman artist and some of the first sculptures depicting American laborers. The Heckscher Museum in Huntington has organized an exhibition that displays 14 Stevan sculptures as well as her drawings and sketches. It's the first museum exhibition of her work devoted to her work. The show is called Emma Stebbins Carving out History. And with me now is Heckster chief curator Carla Wurzelbacher. Carla, it is nice to meet you.

[B]

Hi. Thank you.

[A]

So the museum has the largest collections of Stebbins work. How did the museum come to be in such possession of them?

[B]

Sure. So we're actually the first museum in the country to acquire her work. So in the 1920s, we were gifted two examples of her sculptures. These are marbles called commerce and industry. And then during the pandemic, we were fortunate to be able to acquire three additional sculptures for a grand total of five of these rare works.

[A]

So tell us a little bit about the museum for folks who don't know.

[B]

Sure. So we're just outside New York city, maybe about 30 miles, depending where you're coming from. You can come out on the Long island railroad. And we were founded in 1920, so over 100 years ago, when of the first museums, art museums outside of a major metropolitan center. And we now have a collection of about 2,300 artworks. We present four to five exhibitions a year. Historic projects like Emma Stebbins and also contemporary art.

[C]

You have been researching this exhibition for more than five years. What were your goals with your research about Emma Stebbins?

[B]

So really just seeing where the facts took me and learning as much as I possibly could. And kind of one crumb of information would lead to another. Lots of Internet sleuthing, trying to put together as much as we could possibly know about her life and her work. There are still a lot of holes in this story. She lived a very long time ago. But we were delighted to be able to bring together these 14 works for the first time and to publish this first scholarly book on her artwork.

[C]

I understand that you made a few discoveries in your research process. What did you find?

[B]

I mean, perhaps the most exciting work is called Joseph the Dreamer, and it's an object that had been in the collection of the Belfast Public Library in Northern Ireland.

[D]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Entered their collection, I believe, in 1888. They knew what they had. It is signed on the bottom, but we found it on Facebook. It had not been published in the art historical scholarship before, and so they were really a dream to work with. We were able to conserve this piece professionally, photograph it for the first time, reproduce it in the book, get it onto the Internet, and it's in the exhibition. The first time it's been on view in the United States ever.

[C]

Oh, wow. I'm speaking with Carly Wurzelbacher, chief curator at the Heckscher Museum of Art. We're discussing the exhibition Emma Stebbins Carving out History, on view now. All right, there's 14 Stebbins sculptures in this show. She often worked with marble. Yes, yes. What can you observe about her skill with marble as a sculptor after seeing these works in person?

[B]

Yeah. So they are luminous in a way. These works are small scale or medium scale. They were for domestic interiors in the 19th century. So they're not huge, but when you're in the space, they really hold the room. They have such presence. They're so detailed and intricate. And they also. The meanings are really rich. She's layering all sorts of illusions and references things from her personal life, ancient literature. She was looking at ancient Greek and Roman art. She's also reflecting the events of her time. So they're just chock full of meaning.

[C]

Emma Stebbins was born and raised in New York to a high society family. And this is the way a lot of women artists got their start because they were in wealthy families. But when did she start to show promise?

[B]

So what's interesting is that she's born in New York City in 1815. We don't know a whole lot about the first four decades of her life. She did not move to Rome to become a sculptor until she was 40 years old.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But we do know that she trained privately with a few different artists. She would not have been able to go to art school as a woman at that time. So it's remarkable to look at all she was able to achieve.

[A]

So she went to Rome. That's where she made her name as an artist. What was the culture of Rome at the time?

[B]

So it was really an international art hub. Artists from all Over Europe and the US Were interested in ancient Greek and Roman culture. And these objects, things we now see at the Vatican or the Capitoline Museum, were being excavated at the time. So Stebbins was going and watching these sculptures come out of the ground. She was very inspired by that. She was also talking to the contemporary artists, many of them who were also women, American women, who were her friends and colleagues. And she also had some distance from the family that you were mentioning. She had a little more freedom to live outside of conventions and pursue life as a professional artist.

[A]

When Emma Stebbins was in Rome, she joined a group called the the Jolly Bachelors. Tell us what this group was about. Who was in this group?

[B]

Sure. So this is a group of women who were not married to men. And they really congregated around the actress Charlotte Cushman, who became Stebbins lifelong romantic partner. And so this is a group of women who were dedicated to their art, whether that be the stage or painting or sculpting. And they really supported one another and lifted each other up, even though there was some light competition there also for patrons and other professional opportunities.

[A]

Was Charlotte Cushman a well known actor?

[B]

Actress? Yes, the most famous actress of her time. She would travel throughout the U.S. boston, Philadelphia, New York City, into the Midwest, into the south, also on the London stage. Well known for playing both male and female roles, often from Shakespeare.

[A]

How did they meet?

[B]

So they met in Rome. Cushman would host salons and gatherings, and often these were musical. And so they met in Rome and they very quickly decided that they would stay in the city together, form a home together, and that Stebbins would pursue her sculpture there.

[C]

They often said they were married. Was this possible?

[B]

So they were not legally married, but they did describe their life together in that way. So Charlotte Cushman in one letter says to a friend, do you not know that I'm already married and I wear the band on the third finger of my left hand? So they were living life within that format.

[C]

What kind of challenges did a female sculptor face in rome during the 1800s?

[B]

So remarkably, in some circles, she was celebrated as an accomplished female sculptor. Other times that certainly worked against her, particularly around issues of making sculpture. So it was very common at the time for artists of all genders to work with studio assistants and professional stone carvers and others. But the women would really get knocked for that, accused of not making their own work. And so Stebbins and some other women, like Edmonia Lewis, would try to use fewer assistants. And so this means they're creating less work, that means they're selling less work. That means they're less successful.

[E]

So.

[B]

So they were subject to this different type of scrutiny based on their gender.

[A]

I'm speaking with Carli Wurzelbacher. Excuse me, chief curator of the Heckster Museum of Art. We're discussing the exhibition Emma Stebbins Carving out History. All right, we're going to talk about the big sculpture at Bethesda Fountain. First of all, how did Emma Stebbins get the gig?

[B]

So we know that she starts talking about the Bethesda Fountain with her brother, Henry G. Stebbins, and other members of her social circle who were planning Central park at the time, in 1861. They start talking about this probably in person by 1863. We know from the minutes of these meetings that she had been officially hired, and she would be paid for with these public funds. And it would be 10 years, 1873, until the artwork was finally unveiled in place in Central Park.

[A]

What materials are associated with the sculpture that are on view?

[B]

So the Bethesda Fountain is bronze. Of course, it can't be in the show because it's in Central Park. She also made a bronze sculptor sculpture, sculpture of Horace Mann, the educator and abolitionist, and that is still standing outside of the Massachusetts State House in Boston. And then the work we have on view at the Heckscher is mostly marble.

[A]

I understand that when she first made the Bethesda Fountain, people weren't so sure about it.

[B]

Yeah, the reception was mixed, so some newspaper accounts loved it, thought it was beautiful, powerful. Other people really made fun of the angel. They said she looked like someone dancing the polka, for example. Just really dismissive comments, probably in part because they knew it was created by an artist who was a woman. There also seems to be a sense that. So Stebbins had this work cast overseas at the Royal Bronze Foundry in Munich, and people were upset. She. She should have had it cast in the US So there was a little bit of that going on. But it's interesting that when the sculpture was unveiled, many of the people who came to Central park were German immigrants or of German descent, because they wanted to see this work that had been created at the Royal Bronze Foundry.

[C]

Why do you think it has remained so important in New York City history?

[B]

So it was an icon from the beginning, and. And actually, images of it were circulating even before it was unveiled in 1873. In the exhibition, we have postcards from the turn of the century, including then other artwork that has been made even in the present time, depicting this work. And it's a rare public monument. So much of what we have inherited in our public spaces from that time, 150 years ago is either forgettable or objectionable. Doesn't relate to our life or our values today. But the Bethesda Fountain is about peace and healing and clean water and health and love. And people connect with that. They get married there. I can think of few public monuments that have retained their meaning in the way that the Bethesda Fountain has.

[C]

Two sculptures that you have in the show, Industry and Commerce are noteworthy because Stebbins depicted industrial American laborer. What was the idea behind these sculptures?

[B]

So she was commissioned to create those by an uncle of the Heckscher Museum's founder. So that's how they came to be in the Heckscher collection so early. And he asked her to create works that would represent the way that he made his money. And so he owned coal mines and he was involved in transportation. So he wanted works that would celebrate his businesses. But Stebbins had full creative control over what to do with that assignment. And so she decided to depict these working class American laborers. So she represented the idea of commerce in the form of a sailor, and she represented the idea of industry in the form of a miner. A lot of neoclassical sculpture at that time was of the nude figure, often the nude female figure. So Stebbins is really pushing at conventions here by deciding to represent male laborers in the clothing that they would have worn, holding the tools that they would have used. So there's a degree of realism there connecting the actual details of these workers lives that she has embedded in the work.

[A]

And you mentioned that she was the first woman to make a male nude sculpture. Sculpture. It's called the Lotus Eater. First of all, was it scandalous at the time? And what was the public reception?

[B]

So the reception was actually positive. People thought it was beautifully done. So this is a work that she created in Rome. Making good sculpture at the time meant accurately representing the human form. And so to do that, you need to be able to look at the human form. And Stebbins would not have had access to the male nude model had she stayed in New York City. She needed to go to Rome and work with professional artist models. So that's part of it. She then debuts this work in New York City. It's reviewed in the New York Times and other publications. People thought it was incredibly beautiful and well done. One critic said he couldn't believe it was by a woman because he knew that women didn't have access to the male nude model. So overall her work was very well received during her lifetime.

[A]

The name of the exhibition is Emma Stebbins Carving Out History. It's now on view at the Heckscher Museum in Huntington, Long Island. I have been speaking with Chief curator Carly Roselbacher. Thank you so much for joining us.

[B]

Thank you.

[E]

It's Cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious users of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Specialoffer terms apply.

[D]

I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship. Wnyc. Org.