Alison Stewart (3:14)

I read somewhere it said that you sought out therapy when you got on the show. I was like, is that a joke or is this real?

Michael Urie (3:21)

It's real. It's real. And it's not because the show was stressful or it made me depressed or anything like that. It was because I sort of realized through the show because in every episode we tackle different mental health issues. I sort of realized, like, this isn't just for people who think they're in trouble or who are depressed. Mental health issues maintenance is for all of us, just the same as physical health maintenance. And I was going through a few things of my own and, you know, getting in my 40s now and sort of thinking about the past and the future. And I thought, this is an opportunity for me to talk to somebody and really get a hold of what's going on with me. And, yeah, the show encouraged me to do it. I don't know. I don't have a therapist that's taking me boxing or. Or anything like Jimmy does. But it's really good to have somebody and to talk to somebody. And I credit the show for encouraging me to do so.

Alison Stewart (4:26)

How would you describe your character, Brian?

Michael Urie (4:29)

Well, Brian starts off the show, as you mentioned in the intro, he's been ghosted by his friend. And when he shows up, he's got this really happy, go lucky, plucky attitude. His mantra is, everything goes my way. And as he gets back into this group, this chosen family, which is one of the beautiful things about the show is that this family, this chosen family that we've got, is a group that kind of got together over the course of these two seasons. Some of them, you know, Jimmy's kind of the middle, the sort of heart of the group, but it was his recovery over the last two seasons that let all of the people in his life come together. So when we meet Brian, I think he's got this mantra, everything goes my way. And then his longtime partner starts talking about having a baby, and they start talk thinking about becoming parents, and he's back with his friend group and those ideals sort of slip away. This idea that everything is going to work out for him starts to slip away and we see that he's actually kind of a neurotic mess. And that was a wall that he put up. And I feel so lucky because it was fun to play a confident guy who thought he had it all or at least would achieve it all. But it's way more fun to play neuroses. And getting to follow Brian down this new path has been so fun. And watching him navigate being a husband, being a father, or potentially being a father and, and figure out what his relationship with Jimmy is now, you know, after a year of being ghosted and a long, you know, decades long friendship, what does it mean to reconnect? And the big question that I was so interested in season two is, are we even friends anymore or would we be friends if we met today? And that's a big question. So many people I think should be, yeah, I think we ask ourselves that a lot with these long time relationships, especially in the queer community. You know, I can attest to this. When you're in the closet, you are not your whole self. And Brian was in the closet when he and Jimmy became friends. So now here we are 20 years on and would you be friends with.

Alison Stewart (7:01)

Right. Am I the same guy? Are you the same person? Am I the same person?

Michael Urie (7:04)

Am I the same guy? Exactly. And the truth is we're not. Are we still compatible as friends? Maybe. Probably. And obviously there's this whole like friend group and everything has evolved. But it's a huge question and I think one that people ask a lot, especially in the queer community or other communities where you were pretending to be something different for a period of time.

Alison Stewart (7:25)

Yeah, it's very funny. He talks about his straight self, the way he describes how he reacts to things as his straight self when he was a kid.

Michael Urie (7:34)

Straight Brian.

Alison Stewart (7:35)

Yeah, straight Brian. What was the chemistry like between you and Jason Segel?

Michael Urie (7:41)

It was immediate. I mean, Jason is one of the greatest actors I've ever worked with. He's the most prepared, most professional and kindest person on the set. And that was a. So it was very easy. First of all, it's very easy to act with him because he's so alive and so present and so prepared. But he's also such a sweet, sweet guy in real life that I felt I, I was nervous. I was like, will I be able to be best friends with this guy? We don't know each other. I did not know him before. I got the job, and immediately, as soon as I saw him, he gave me a big bear hug and put me at ease. And it's been very easy. You just look him in the eye and you're acting. It's really terrific.

Alison Stewart (8:29)

My guest is actor Michael Urie. He plays the best friend of a therapist who's grieving the loss of his wife in the Apple TV comedy series Shrinking. He's joining me now to discuss the series and his career. When you know Jimmy, played by Jason Segel, he's struggling with so much grief, sometimes in not positive ways. What choices did you make as an actor to talk about the feelings that Brian has about his friend dealing with grief? Does that make sense?

Michael Urie (8:59)

Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, Brian is. And he would never say this, he would never admit to this. He might not even know what it means, but he is a narcissist. And so when we meet Brian at the beginning of the. He's mad at Jimmy. Not he's mad at Jimmy because he had been ghosted. Yes, he's sympathetic, and yes, he feels bad, but he starts on his own problem, of course. And that is kind of the pattern with Brian. As we see any issue with Jimmy come up, Brian won't make it about himself. And he doesn't know. He doesn't realize that that's what he's doing because, you know, he's a narcissist. And they don't always see themselves. They don't always realize that that's what's going on. And it's very funny. Actually, there was a moment in the show someone calls Brian a narcissist. And I remember reading it and being like, no, he's not. And I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm too close. I've gotten too close to this character. I don't even realize that that's what he is. But it was actually really helpful as an actor to think of him in that way. So, yeah, he kind of. When Jimmy has a problem, Brian's not the one to help him. Usually, occasionally, Brian can help. And that's why this season. What was so interesting about this season is they introduced the character of Lewis, played by Brett Goldstein, who is the man responsible for the death of Jimmy's wife, Tia, which was a crazy twist that this guy would end up somehow in their lives after this horrible tragedy. And it ends up being Brian, who is the conduit to bring Lewis into the fold of this chosen family. And it seems unlikely but also inevitable that it be Brian, because it can't really be. It can't really be anyone else interesting. They're a little too close to it. And Brian, even though Tia was a very close friend of his, he just happens to be in the right place at the right time to intercept Louis on the street and see that Lewis is in pain and see that Louis is needs. Someone knows still that Jimmy and Alice and the entire group of friends who are grieving the loss of Tia still need some kind of closure. And Brian helps bridge that gap. So it's this kind of wonderful thing that, like, you put this guy, who seems to be no help at all, in the right place in the right time, and he can actually help.

Alison Stewart (11:29)

Let's play a clip. Jimmy eventually finds out about Alice and Brian's interaction with Louis, which leads to a huge monologue Brian gives, which he gave to Alice earlier, explaining how he met Lewis. This is from shrinking.

Michael Urie (11:41)

I need a drink. Do you need a drink? Should we make martinis?

Alison Stewart (11:45)

It's 11am And I'm 17, but sure.

Michael Urie (11:47)

Oh, okay. Okay. Diving in. Okay, here goes. I have been talking to the young man who ran over your mom. What? Just listen. It gets better. It doesn't, but listen. He came here to return your wallet. He came here? Yeah. When?

Alison Stewart (12:10)

To the house. Did you talk to him or did.

Michael Urie (12:13)

If you keep asking me stuff, I'm gonna get more frazzled. So just let me. Spit it out. Spit it out. So he came here, and I was like, get away from this family. Scram. And he was like, sorry. But he seemed wounded. More like, sorry. And I was like, are you okay? And he was. He was like, yes. But I could tell he wasn't. I'm going through a super empathetic stage because Charlie and I decided that we're gonna have a baby. If it's a boy, we're gonna name him Peter Bernadette. And if it's a girl, obviously Bernadette Peters. Anyway, so I went to the coffee shop where he works. Not to see him, just to ask if he was okay. And his boss was this kind of Tony Soprano guy, but hotter. You know, kind of a. He'd rough you up, but also be a really good kisser. I wish I had a picture. So I ask the boss about Louis, and he says, you know, he's. He's super depressed. He's kind of a downer, but you can't fire a person for being a bummer. Cancel culture, am I right? Next thing I know, he calls Louis over and we start talking. And Alice, his life is bleak, Like Requiem for a Dream. Bleak. And not like the middle part where they're all enjoying the heroine. The end, where they're all ass to assume. And you realize that heroin's no fun at all.

Alison Stewart (13:25)

We learned so much about Brian just in that monologue. So much about Brian. And just in that monologue.

Michael Urie (13:31)

Can't believe you just heard me say ass to ass on public radio.

Alison Stewart (13:35)

It's for the art. It's for the art. Michael, tell me about rehearsing that monologue. Because it does go to so many different places. It ends up in the right place, but there's tangents left and right.

Michael Urie (13:46)

Yes, he's all over the map with this monologue. And it was. It was such a gift to get a monologue. I mean, a monologue on television, that's so rare. Unless you're doing, like, a political speech. Or, like a summation or something in a courtroom. So I was so grateful they gave it to me ahead of time. Because they wanted me to be familiar with it and have time with it. Cause it's a lot more dialogue than usual for somebody to have on a TV show. And they said, you're going to repeat it again verbatim. So I knew not only am I gonna do it, I'm gonna have to do it like, a month later. And they wanted it to be verbatim. And they wanted it to be like. And I thought of it as that, you know, when you have something hard to say to somebody. Or something complicated or something you're nervous about saying. I mean, at least I do. I practice it in the car or in the shower or when I'm alone. And you go through it and you imagine what might happen when you start to tell the other person this complicated idea. So I kind of looked at it like that. Like this is something that he has been saying in his head. Practicing and preparing for the moment when inevitably he's gonna have to say it. Which helped because it meant that I could. Like, I was able to have a sort of muscle memory and get it in my bones and think of it as a rehearsed speech that Brian had prepared. Because he knew eventually he was going to have to spill the beans. But I also knew that I needed to know this thing backwards and forwards. So I spent a lot more time on this than I would normally on a script for tv. Just because they're usually three minute scenes. And you have maybe half the lines. And it's a lot easier to memorize. And also, the writing on shrinking is sterling. And the better the writing is, the easier it is to remember. So it's always been fairly easy to get the words in my head on this show, but I spent a lot more time on that. And also I had to perfect my Brett Goldstein imitation. I had to figure out how he would say. And then I got. And then Lukita Maxwell, who's the incredible brilliant actor who plays Alice. The day of, we spent a little time together, just the two of us in the trailer going through it. So that was really, really helpful. And having her to look at made it really easy. But again, it was just like the greatest gift to be given. This speech that's funny and heartfelt and high octane. I couldn't, I'm so grateful for it. And in fact, somebody on this is my dream come true. Somebody on Instagram spliced them together. See how they're, how they mirror each other.

Alison Stewart (16:33)

The show is called Shrinking. And that was my conversation with actor Michael Urie, who is up for outstanding supporting actor and in a comedy series. And the ceremonies will be held on Sunday, September 14th. You can watch them on CBS or streaming on YouTube. And that is all of it for today. All of it is produced by Andrea Duncan Mao, Kate Hines, Jordan Loft, Simon Close, Zach Godera Cohen, El Malik Anderson and Luke Green. Megan Ryan is the head of Live Radio. Our engineers are Juliana Fonda and Amber Bruce. Luscious Jackson does our music. If you missed any segments this week, catch up by listening to our podcast, available on your podcast platform of choice. If you like what you hear, please leave us a great rating. It helps people find the show. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.

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Alison Stewart (17:53)

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