Emmy-Nominated Star Jason Isaacs' Stay Thailand for 'The White Lotus'

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Emmy-Nominated Star Jason Isaacs' Stay Thailand for 'The White Lotus'"

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Jason Isaacs
Air Date: September 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this Emmy-focused episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart welcomes acclaimed actor Jason Isaacs to the studio to discuss his role as Tim Ratliff in the most recent season of HBO’s "The White Lotus," set in Thailand. The conversation delves into Isaacs’ Emmy-nominated performance, his approach to embodying a privileged American patriarch, the process of perfecting a distinctive accent, the show's cultural critique, and behind-the-scenes anecdotes about working with series creator Mike White.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The World of "The White Lotus" and Tim Ratliff’s Character (01:38–11:01)

• Isaacs’ Character: Tim Ratliff is described as a finance mogul with deep generational wealth, constantly tethered to his phone, and the patriarch of a complicated, privileged family.
• “He has the entire world at his disposal. It’s generational wealth. It goes back... probably to the Mayflower... And what’s important to him is his kids. Can this dynasty continue?” – Jason Isaacs (09:47)
• Character Dynamics: Timothy’s relationship with his wife and children is fraught; he worries about their perceptions and futures, especially as family dysfunction is exacerbated by the exotic, pressure-cooker setting.
• Phone Acting: Isaacs credits early stage roles and drama school—which required acting alone on the phone—for his ability to convincingly play Tim’s many “phone scenes” (11:01).

2. The Art of Accents and Building Tim’s Voice (06:41–09:38)

• Accuracy and Specificity: Isaacs shares the importance of accurately representing a North Carolina accent, noting regional and socioeconomic markers in speech.
• “There’s no such thing as a ‘Southern’ accent... Kentucky’s different from Alabama, different from Arkansas. This is Durham, North Carolina. He’s also a particular guy from Durham. He’s old money. He’s blue blood money.” – Jason Isaacs (07:26)
• Methodical Preparation: Isaacs details working with renowned dialect coach Liz Himelstein to “build the entire thing, every vowel, every consonant, and the music of it from scratch,” differentiating Tim from a generic southerner (08:04).

3. Working with Mike White (05:08–06:41)

• Directing Style: Isaacs praises Mike White as not just a genius writer but a “magnificent director” who offers feedback through a “compliment sandwich,” mixing praise and subtle direction.
• “He kills you with kindness... He comes out from behind the monitor... shrieking with demonic laughter... then he goes, ‘Awesome, great, neat, fantastic.’ And then, you know, you may go again.” – Jason Isaacs (05:10)
• White’s Process: White is so engaged he often tries playing all the parts by himself in rehearsal, sometimes resulting in “demonic laughter” at the monitor (05:08).

4. Cultural Commentary: Wealth, Status, and Denial (09:38–13:10)

• Themes of Privilege and Entitlement: Isaacs reflects on Tim's inability to live without his phone, tying it to the constant volatility and “off-the-grid” impossibility of finance capitalists.
• “You can’t be off-grid. You can’t possibly be off-grid when you’re in the world of finance.” – Jason Isaacs (12:36)
• Entitlement and Dependence: Tim’s reflex is to throw lawyers and money at problems, and his crisis in the series comes when even these tools can’t help him (13:35).

5. Family Dysfunction and Drug Dependency (13:29–15:23)

• Tim’s Wife: Alison and Jason discuss Tim’s wife, portrayed as “half stoned” and disconnected, with Isaacs quipping, “I’m not sure she remembers his full name.” (14:36)
• Transformation: The character arc hints at a rising confrontation with reality as drugs run out and suppressed tensions surface—“like somebody getting the bends and the world comes into focus.” (15:03)

6. Actor’s Empathy and Method (16:21–17:52)

• Empathy vs. Understanding: Contrary to typical sentiment, Isaacs argues actors must understand their characters, not empathize with or judge them.
• “Are you empathetic for yourself? In the morning, do you ever think about whether you’re empathetic for yourself?... Exactly. I’m just him.” – Jason Isaacs (16:28–16:35)
• On Playing Morally Dubious Figures: Isaacs draws on Malcolm Gladwell’s “Blink” and evolutionary perspectives to explain how people rationalize behavior, emphasizing the need to think the character’s thoughts rather than overlay his own judgments (17:19).

7. The Logistics and Secrecy of Shooting "The White Lotus" (17:56–18:38)

• Scripts and Spoilers: Isaacs describes the extreme secrecy on set, reminiscent of Harry Potter security, including retrieval of scripts and NDAs.
• Funny Anecdote: Even Isaacs’ wife, present in Thailand, suspected multiple endings had been filmed—a testament to the tight control of information.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mike White’s Directing:

  “He's not a biter. He's the opposite, actually. He kills you with kindness.”
  (Jason Isaacs, 05:10)

• On Building an Accent:

  “In England, everybody can place [an accent]... Socioeconomically... So if you're a British actor, that better be a tool that you can use to convey who someone is.”
  (Jason Isaacs, 06:44)

• On Wealth and Status:

  “It’s all testosterone and braggadocio with him. What’s important to him?... He’s worried about his wife. Who wouldn’t be? Take a look at her. Like the way she’s behaving. They lost each other a long time ago.”
  (Jason Isaacs, 10:34)

• On Acting the Phone Scenes:

  “I learned to do phone acting because so many of my scenes were on the phone. Traders were on the phone all the time, and there was no one on that phone.”
  (Jason Isaacs, 11:05)

• On Empathy for Characters:

  “I don’t think you have to feel anything for your character. You have to be your character... People go, do you like him? Do you dislike him? I’m him.”
  (Jason Isaacs, 16:28–16:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:38] – Introduction of Jason Isaacs and his role in "The White Lotus"
• [03:46] – Isaacs reflects on swearing, publicity blitz, and puppy-related interview mishap
• [05:08] – Discussion of Mike White’s unique directing style
• [06:41] – Isaacs on accent work and socioeconomics of speech
• [09:38] – Building Tim’s character and the role of ancestry
• [10:32] – Tim’s family dynamics and status obsession
• [11:05] – Technical challenge of solo phone acting
• [12:36] – Tim’s resistance to giving up his phone and finance world context
• [13:35] – Strategy of "throwing lawyers at problems"
• [14:21] – The wife’s characterization and drug dependency
• [16:21] – Isaacs’ philosophy on character empathy
• [17:56] – Script secrecy and filming anecdotes

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Tone and Style

The conversation is witty, candid, and insightful, with Isaacs frequently injecting humor and self-deprecation. His deep thoughtfulness about craft and character emerges, balanced by playful banter with Alison Stewart, who keeps the tone accessible and engaging.

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This episode offers not just a behind-the-scenes look at The White Lotus, but a thoughtful window into the art and philosophy of acting—anchored by Isaacs’ lively storytelling and incisive commentary on the peculiarities of wealth, family, and identity in modern drama.

Transcript

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[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. We're spotlighting Emmy nominated actors. Now we'll turn to the White Lotus star, Jason Isaacs. The show itself racked up 23 nods including outstanding drama series, outstanding writing and directing. In the most recent season of the White Lotus, we find ourselves in a jaw dropping location, in this case private villas in coastal Thailand. A handful of wealthy, mostly unhappy people and the hotel workers beholden to them. And conmen there are always con men or women. Tim Ratliff is a middle aged master of the universe with a languid southern accent. The patriarch of the family. A finance guy who supports his medicated wife, an aggro heir apparent son and two younger siblings searching for their own identities apart from bro and dad. When Tim comes to the White Lotus, his phone won't stop buzzing. Something is very wrong back at the office. Let's take a listen. Timothy?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah?

[Alison Stewart]

Is everything okay?

[Jason Isaacs]

No, no, it's not. We're on the antipodal opposite ends of the earth from why nobody comes here. His day here, his night there. His night here, his day there. I can't get anybody on the phone.

[Alison Stewart]

Who do you need to get ahold of?

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm just saying that the time difference is aggravating, you know.

[Alison Stewart]

Poor guy, he works so hard he needs to calm his ass down. Tim is played by actor Jason Isaacs, who is nominated for a Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama series. Alongside some of his co stars, Jason is an acting veteran playing a variety of roles from Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter to steel in Black Hawk down to a grieving father in Mass. Jason Isaacs joined us in studio and he started by commenting on the clip we just played.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, it's nice that you found a clip where I'm not swearing because I'm not sure. I think that might be the only sentence in all eight episodes.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, we tried.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well done, you.

[Alison Stewart]

No swearing on public radio.

[Jason Isaacs]

Fair enough. I, I'll abide by any rules you.

[Alison Stewart]

Give me if, you know we have a delay.

[Jason Isaacs]

Though I love the fact that you said veteran there, but also middle aged. I'm thinking I'm 61. Will I live to 122? It's possible. Nowadays, I'm following Brian Johnson.

[Alison Stewart]

He wants, you know, we'll follow the sunset. How are you, by the way?

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, I'm, you know, go ahead, tell.

[Alison Stewart]

Us, tell us the story.

[Jason Isaacs]

So I am in the middle of a, as all of us are, in the middle of a publicity blitz for this show which seems to need no publicity because everybody in the world apparently is watching it. But. But this morning I did this thing called the Buzzfeed Puppies at the behest of my go godchildren Marley and Lila in London, who said, please, please do the puppies. So I begged. And. And you sit in a little pen and these gorgeous little puppies cuddle you. And you are meant to be so distracted by their fluffiness that you can't answer the questions. I was distracted by the fact they were sinking their fangs into every part of my body and my arm now has a giant gash in it for which I might need some kind of surgery. Oh, and multiple gashes.

[Alison Stewart]

It's big.

[Jason Isaacs]

And the shirt, which was designated for the rest of the publicity all day is spattered with blood. So I'm fine, but a little bit sore is the answer.

[Alison Stewart]

Ooh. I'll be gentle with you.

[Jason Isaacs]

However, can I say it was gorgeous nonetheless. And they didn't know what they were doing their puppies.

[Alison Stewart]

Is Mike White that tough?

[Jason Isaacs]

Is he a biter?

[Alison Stewart]

Is he a biter?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Is Mike White a biter?

[Jason Isaacs]

He's not a bit. He's the opposite, actually. He kills you with kindness. Now, Mike White is an extraordinary man. For anyone who's watching the show, you won't need telling what a brilliant writer he is. But I think his directing gets ignored or people forget the fact that he's the guy that brings it to life as well as imagining it all and writing it all. And he directs this. Well, come at it another way. My 19 year old daughter wants to be a film director and she's directed plays. And I was there when someone asked her how she directs actors and she said, well, it's the same with all actors, isn't it? It's got to be a compliment sandwich. And Mike White comes out from behind the monitor from where he has been shrieking with demonic laughter. How you know that maybe you'll be moving on because he's just uncontrollable with laughter. And then he comes out and he goes, awesome, great, neat, fantastic. And then, you know, you may be going to go again. As he's walking away, he turns over his shoulder a bit like Peter Falker's Colombo. For those viewers over 100 like me. And he, you know, Peter Falk used to come as a detective and investigate people. As he was leaving, he'd go, one more thing, my wife is a big fan of you. So Mike would just throw a little tip over his shoulder, half a suggestion. You're an idiot if you didn't take it whole and do exactly what he says. But he's a magnificent director, partly because he's also a great actor. So before he speaks to you, he'll come out from behind the monitor, tell you it was great, and then walk around muttering, playing all the parts to himself. When he gets to your bit, he kind of frowns, tries it a few different ways. Then he comes over and gives the note and yeah, I mean, if in another world and possibly using AI he will be playing all the parts, maybe season four will all be Mike White. And I for one will be watching.

[Alison Stewart]

You have a good ear for accents.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, I'm British, so there's a weird thing that people don't realize, Americans don't realize about British people, English people particularly when somebody opens their mouth. In England, everybody can place them. I don't mean geographically, although that definitely regionally, you can place them socioeconomically, you can fight. You can hear what kind of education they've had. You can hear how they would like to be perceived and whether they're making their accent a bit more street or a little bit more. All those things are apparent to everybody within a syllable. So if you're a British actor, that better be a tool that you can use in order to convey who someone is. And also you can hear confidence. You can hear Braggadocio. You can hear mock conference. You can all those things in someone's voice.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you do. Did you work with a voice coach?

[Jason Isaacs]

There is a woman called Liz Himelstein who's one of the world's great dialect coaches. She worked with a lot of big Hollywood stars who was available to all of us. And yes, I work with her because I don't just want to be from Durham, North Carolina. Well, the one thing I really didn't want to do was do a wash of Southern people. I know friends from the south hate it when actors do something like a Southern. There's no such thing as a southern. Kentucky's different from Alabama, different from Arkansas. This is Durham, North Carolina. He's also a particular guy from Durham. He's old money. He's blue blood money. And the accent in Durham, in a certain section of the community golf clubs, generally has two vowel sounds that are English. They're a hangover from the colonial days.

[Alison Stewart]

Tell me.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's got a short vowel sound. The o sound like. Instead of not you, they say not. And they also say, I know, I'm going. It's a. It's a diphthong. And so when I do it, there was a. For a while there when people were talking about those things on the Internet, there were people saying, he sounds Australian, he sounds English. I don't. I sound like the guy from Durham. And some people were going, no, no, no, he sounds like my dad. And one guy said, he sounds like everyone at my golf club. But, yeah, it's because I'm English. I come at it from a. You know, I need to build the entire thing, every vowel, every consonant, and the music of it from scratch. But accents are music. They're not really sounds.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you build your character based on his ancestry? Because there is a period when you're like my grand.

[Jason Isaacs]

At that point. Then. Now we're getting into the grain of it at that point. He's very, very drunk and heavily drugged out. So people's accents comes out, the action they had when they were young, before they went to business school. So, for instance, my natural accent, I talked like that when I was kids. I don't know if you can tell where that's from, but I'm from Liverpool. And that accent I had is very, very posh for Liverpool. I have relatives who talk like that, that order chicken and chips at a shop, you know, But. But mine was much more refined because I'd had allocution lessons. Well, I don't talk like that now. But if I Get very drunk or very tired or very angry. I do. So that's Timothy without his guard up.

[Alison Stewart]

When the puppies get you.

[Jason Isaacs]

When the puppies get me, yeah. Believe me. So I, I love voices. I love everything about them. And, and you can hear him disappear deep into himself as well. Timothy and his kids don't have the accent. They will have gone to different schools and they won't want to sound like.

[Alison Stewart]

Their dad before everything goes bonkers. When we first meet him.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

What's important to him?

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, status. I mean, first of all, life is easy for him. I got myself a little bit plump, you know, he's a fat cat. He has the entire world at his disposal. It's generational wealth. It goes back. The entitlement goes back forever, probably to the Mayflower. And he's where he is. There are statues to him, you know, if there aren't, there will be. And what's important to him is his kids. Can he, can this dynasty continue? I've got Patrick Schwarzenegger, the lovely Pat Schwarzenegger, playing the awful Saxon myself. Awful. And he wants to be like his dad, but he isn't. You know, he's trying, but it's not quite landing. And then there's the other two, as far as Tim's concerned, when he gets there, the other two losers who are not making it the way he wants them to be, they're not fighting their way in the world the way they could be.

[Alison Stewart]

But did he have to fight his way?

[Jason Isaacs]

No, he didn't have to fight his way. He thinks he did. You know, it's all, it's all testosterone and braggadocio with him. What's important to him? I, I don't know. I, I, he's worried about his wife. Who wouldn't be? Take a look at her. Like the way she's behaving. They lost each other a long time ago. She's drugged out of her mind, so things aren't going that great to start with, but the world is falling at his feet and he has that, you know, a. It's all disposable income and it's unlimited.

[Alison Stewart]

It's interesting. You have to do a lot of acting while you're on the phone.

[Jason Isaacs]

I do. Thanks for noticing that. It's not easy. There was no one there and no one on the phone. One of my first jobs out of drama school when I. Sorry, yeah, out of drama school. But when I left university, it was when Thatcher and Reagan had just deregulated the world of finance and so everybody was getting recruited to be commodity salesmen or currency traders or whatever. And all of my friends, people who'd done a macrame degree, it didn't matter what you did. You were suddenly given a Porsche and giant shoulder pads and a bunch of money. And I went to drama school instead. So when I came out of drama school, I got a job in a show set in the kind of Wolf of Wall street world. And I knew those people. I'd been to college. I went to watch them and, you know, I watched them get their giant houses and their cars and lose them and watch the inner linings of their nose dissolve and all the rest of it. So I learned to do phone acting because so many of my scenes were on the phone. Traders were on the phone all the time, and there was no one on that phone. So I thanked God that that was one of my first jobs 35 years ago, because you're right, a lot of my acting is on the phone in this, and. And it's no fun. And then months later, when the show was finished, I was back, and I was on the phone in my house with the different actors who play people at the other end. In fact, I went to Scott Galloway's apartment here in New York, who is not an actor, and I spent hours with him, and he had a slow realization that he's one of the world's great podcasters and a brain the size of the planet. But there's a little bit more involved in acting than he'd first thought.

[Alison Stewart]

One of the hotel's policies is to. To give up your devices. Why doesn't Tim want to comply? I think it's because he has issues with being told what to do.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, he lives his life on the phone. He said, maybe the market moves very, very quickly. You need to know what's happening. You know, if, for instance, if. If we imagine that President Trump was in office, 1/2 a comment on Air Force One, suddenly the world's markets turn around overnight. So most trades nowadays, it might be surprised people listening who don't know much about the stock market. I don't know or care much about it, but billions of trades a second are done by supercomputers. So it's very rare that human beings are involved in lots of trades. Anyway, you can't be off grid. You can't possibly be off grid when you're in the world of finance.

[Alison Stewart]

He does, for a moment, though, give up his phone.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, that's because he realized the entire world has evaporated and everything that he was is gone. And he doesn't quite know what to do about it. And the last thing he wants is anyone else in the family to find out while he tries to work out what to do about it, if anything, if there's anything to be done or is this the last four days of their lives?

[Alison Stewart]

I was wondering, is it the kind of thing. They're that kind of guy that it'll get better. We'll just put it away.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, so someone will fix it. These were discussions with Mike early on. He's incredibly. Not only is, okay, he's a genius, but he's also very collaborative. And I had said, well, this guy would throw lawyers at it. There are certain people in the world who, when they get in trouble that seems irreversible and. And bound to bring them down. They just throw lawyers at it for years and the problems go away and they, you know, jam up the courts, whatever. And he went to good point. So we tried to. That. That became part of some of the phone calls. And yeah, he does think the lawyer is going to sort things out because the lawyers have always sorted things out. You throw enough money at any problem when the lawyer comes back and goes, there's no way out of this one. It's such a shock to him that he turns on the lawyer because certain people can't accept responsibility and turn everything into. I don't know who I'm thinking of. I'm sure you can fill in the gaps yourself.

[Alison Stewart]

His wife seems sort of half stoned.

[Jason Isaacs]

Half stoned. I don't know who you're hanging out the weekends, but yes, his wife is popping pills like a lunatic until I take them.

[Alison Stewart]

Do you think. Does she really know what her husband's up to?

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm not sure she remembers his full name. Yeah, she doesn't know what's going on most of the time. One of the reasons that Parker is so entertaining in the show is that she has, you know, half a toe in reality and nine and a half toes off in the surreal world of Victoria Rad.

[Alison Stewart]

We've had her here.

[Jason Isaacs]

She's. She's a pistol. I wasn't talking about Parker in real life, although it does apply partly. Yes, that's true.

[Alison Stewart]

I wonder, you know, is there. Is there a still magnolia to her character?

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, I don't want to say what's coming down the line, but of course she doesn't have the drugs anymore, so she's bought very, very slowly back up to the surface and maybe too quickly heard like somebody getting the bends and the world comes into focus and what was that kind of languid, sleepy energy becomes what those people are like when they don't get their pills. And, and you get to see and be entertained by that too.

[Alison Stewart]

It's funny because your character says, I don't take drugs. Let me see him taking the drugs.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, yes, he's. He's not burdened by the responsibility to tell the truth in the world generally. That's why he got into this trouble. And, and also he's all about what other people think about him. He's all about. His wife thinks about him, his children think about him. And one of the, One of the. So many great things about Mike but choosing to settle in Thailand is it's a place that people go to seek enlightenment and it's a place that rich people go to buy enlightenment, think or spiritual growth. And of course, yeah, none of these people get what they think they want or need, but they get what Mike lines up for them. And fate conspires to strip Timothy down the way Buddhists would have it, to his essential self. And I'm not sure that happens to Victoria. But. But he looks around him at the people who he loves and whose job it is to protect and. And rightfully, he. He fears for how they're going to cope.

[Alison Stewart]

Actors have to feel empathetic for their characters, even though we might see them as different.

[Jason Isaacs]

I disagree.

[Alison Stewart]

You do?

[Jason Isaacs]

I don't think you have to feel anything for your character. You have to be your character. Are you empathetic for yourself? In the morning, do you ever think about whether you're empathetic for yourself?

[Alison Stewart]

I'm just me, though.

[Jason Isaacs]

Exactly. I'm just him. And people go, do you like him? Do you dislike him? I'm him. I'm him with the things he worries about, the things he. The times that he's confronted with. Has he done the right thing or the wrong thing? We do that sometimes ourselves and struggle with it. Mostly we just do the thing that we do and a bit like, you know, Gladwell, Michael, Michael Malcolm Gladwell's blink. We make our decisions and then we rationalize or we find some confirmation bias to allow us to feel comfortable with those decisions. And, you know, even those people who seem to us brutal, some of the worst people in the world to us who make immoral decisions and are people who just have a different view of the world, that it's Darwinian and that, you know, nobody judges a lion for eating a wildebeest at the watering hole and people who are crushing or brutal or, you know, I feel like, that.

[Alison Stewart]

Is the way you understand why he eats it, though.

[Jason Isaacs]

Ah, no, you said. You said empathize. I need to understand. I need to have all of his thoughts. I need to have. I need to think like he thinks. I need to worry about things he worries about. I need to. That was the challenge for this. I didn't. I don't speak for so much of it, but I'm thinking like crazy. His mind is, you know, like a kaleidoscope off kilter, and I had to have all those thoughts in my head.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, that's so interesting.

[Jason Isaacs]

People think when actors cry, they need to think about their puppy getting run over. No, I need to think about the things that are making the character sad and I need to feel sad.

[Alison Stewart]

So from your taking the role, you knew what happened to Tim?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, yeah. No, we all got all the scripts. It wasn't one of those things where they hand you out pages day by day. We all, weirdly, we all got the scripts and then when we got to Thailand, they got incredibly secretive about the script and they took us off, took it off us all the time. When we traveled between islands, we had to hand them all in and get them all back again. Reminded me of the days when I used to get the Harry Potter script, but the day before an NDA would arrive and it would be the size of War and Peace and I'd have to sign it, and I would always sign at Mickey Mouse going, you do realize the book's been on sale for two years. There's nothing that secretive in here. But, yes, they're very, very secretive about the end. Even my wife who was there said to me, did you shoot four or five different endings? And I went, what planet were you living on? You were there, love. So they were secretive about it. But yes, we all knew what was coming.

[Alison Stewart]

That was my conversation with Emmy nominated actor Jason Isaacs. Up next, actor Jenny Slate plays the best friend of a woman with stage 4 cancer experiencing sexual awakening in her final days. In the dramatic comedy series, it's titled Dying for Sex. Slate joins us alongside co showrunner Kim Rosenstock to discuss.

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