Equalizers: Engineer and Activist Karrie Keyes

Summary

All Of It: Equalizers – Engineer and Activist Carrie Kai's

Podcast Information:

• Title: All Of It
• Host/Author: WNYC
• Description: ALL OF IT is a show about culture and its consumers, aiming to engage thinkers, doers, makers, and creators about the what and why of their work. The show celebrates the diverse perspectives that make New York City great.
• Episode: Equalizers: Engineer and Activist Carrie Kai's
• Release Date: March 21, 2025
• Host: Kusha Navadar (filling in for Alison Stewart)

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Introduction

In the March 21, 2025 episode of All Of It, host Kusha Navadar sits down with Carrie Kai's, a pioneering monitor engineer and activist, to delve into her extensive career in the music industry and her efforts to empower women behind the scenes. This episode, part of the Women's History Month series titled Equalizers, offers an in-depth look at Carrie’s journey from humble beginnings to founding the organization Sound Girls.

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Carrie Kai's Career Journey

Carrie Kai's began her career in audio engineering in an unconventional manner. Initially, her first job was [02:11] unloading trucks, a role that provided her entry into the music industry despite the lack of formal training programs at the time.

Kusha Navadar: "What was your first job in audio engineering?" [02:11]

Carrie Kai's: "Unloading trucks. There was back then there was very limited audio programs to trade schools or even through universities. And it pretty much focused all on recording and they would do a little six week crash course in live sound. So yeah, most people back then started by pushing gear around." [02:11]

At 19, Carrie landed her first major role touring with the California ska band The Untouchables, marking the beginning of a successful three-decade-long association with bands like Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers.

Kusha Navadar: "You toured with the California ska band the Untouchables when you were only 19, is that right?" [02:37]

Carrie Kai's: "Yeah, it's probably, yeah." [02:48]

Her early work involved unloading and loading trucks, which evolved into a more significant role as she started working closely with sound engineers, eventually leading to her position as a monitor engineer.

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Roles and Responsibilities of a Monitor Engineer

As a monitor engineer, Carrie is responsible for ensuring that band members can hear themselves and each other during live performances. This role is crucial for maintaining harmony and timing on stage, distinct from what the audience hears through the public address (PA) system.

Kusha Navadar: "Can you help me understand a little bit? And for, you know, I'm sure folks in listeners right now might not know what a live concert engineer is. Specifically a monitor engineer. What does a monitor engineer do?" [07:46]

Carrie Kai's: "So my job is to make sure that the band can hear, whatever they need on stage. So I'm not necessarily doing a left and right mix for them. Very rarely are they all listening to the same thing." [07:56]

She elaborates on the complexities of live sound mixing, especially in large venues where managing multiple inputs and outputs is a delicate task.

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Challenges and Lessons Learned

Carrie reflects on the challenges she faced early in her career and the critical lessons that have shaped her professional ethos.

Carrie Kai's: "Such Combat Audio back then. Just reacting on the fly for every possible thing that's being thrown at you." [05:30]

She emphasizes the importance of asking questions and being reliable:

Carrie Kai's: "I think the biggest thing is just to ask questions. And I think if you ask any veteran, they would rather people ask them questions than to have to go and fix what they did wrong." **[05:40]

Carrie Kai's: "Don't be flaky." [05:54]

These principles have guided her through the fast-paced, unpredictable environment of live music production.

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Founding of Sound Girls and Supporting Women in Music

In 2013, Carrie took a significant step to address the gender disparity in the music production industry by founding Sound Girls. The organization is dedicated to spotlighting and providing grants to women working behind the scenes in the music industry.

Kusha Navadar: "Tell me how that started. Tell me what your mission is." [20:02]

Carrie Kai's: "Well, it started because we did a panel. There was five of us on a panel for an AES convention... we bonded and we just stayed in touch after. And we were like, you know, if we could have just hung out with each other 20 years ago, how much different our career might have been." [20:02]

Sound Girls offers a variety of resources including mentorship, job opportunities, and webinars, aiming to create a supportive network for women in the audio engineering field.

Carrie Kai's: "Mentorship, job opportunities, webinars. We have women that are writing articles for us... very much advocating in the industry for diversity and inclusion." [21:21]

Her efforts have significantly increased the visibility and accessibility of female engineers in the industry, fostering a more inclusive environment.

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Current Work and Impact

Carrie continues to work with top-tier bands like Pearl Jam, where her role has become more specialized, focusing primarily on Eddie Vedder's monitoring needs.

Carrie Kai's: "On Pearl Jam, on stage left, we have wings on the side of the stage... Last tour, we switched, and right now I'm only doing Ed monitoring needs, and another person's mixing the rest of the band guys." [10:20]

Her work extends beyond technical expertise, involving a deep understanding of band dynamics and psychology to maintain smooth on-stage performances.

Carrie Kai's: "You have to balance all those pressures, and then there's band dynamics that you have to figure out and navigate around." [18:00]

Carrie's dedication to her craft and her advocacy for women in the industry underscores her impact both on and off the stage.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• [05:30] Carrie Kai's: "Such Combat Audio back then. Just reacting on the fly for every possible thing that's being thrown at you."
• [05:40] Carrie Kai's: "I think the biggest thing is just to ask questions. And I think if you ask any veteran, they would rather people ask them questions than to have to go and fix what they did wrong."
• [05:54] Carrie Kai's: "Don't be flaky."
• [07:56] Carrie Kai's: "So my job is to make sure that the band can hear, whatever they need on stage. So I'm not necessarily doing a left and right mix for them. Very rarely are they all listening to the same thing."
• [20:02] Carrie Kai's: "We bonded and we just stayed in touch after. And we were like, you know, if we could have just hung out with each other 20 years ago, how much different our career might have been."
• [21:21] Carrie Kai's: "Mentorship, job opportunities, webinars. We have women that are writing articles for us... very much advocating in the industry for diversity and inclusion."

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Conclusion

In this episode of All Of It, Carrie Kai's shares her remarkable journey as a monitor engineer and her unwavering commitment to fostering a more inclusive music industry. From her early days unloading trucks to her pivotal role with iconic bands like Pearl Jam and Red Hot Chili Peppers, Carrie illustrates the critical impact of live sound engineering. Her founding of Sound Girls not only highlights her role as an industry leader but also as an advocate for empowering women in a traditionally male-dominated field. Through her insights and experiences, Carrie embodies the essence of ALL OF IT—embracing every facet of culture and context to enrich the community.

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Listen to the full episode of "Equalizers: Engineer and Activist Carrie Kai's" on All Of It, weekdays from 12:00 - 2:00 PM on WNYC. For more information, visit soundgirls.org.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance]

All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Kusha Navadar]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Kusha Navadar filling in for Alison Stewart. And my next guest is the person responsible for making sure that Pearl Jam can hear themselves on stage when they break into this riff. Carrie Kai's has been on the road with Pearl Jam and Eddie vedder for about three decades. In the 1990s she also toured with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Kai's is a monitor engineer, which means she's responsible for mixing live concert sounds, not for the audience, but so the band can hear what they're playing. It's a role that relatively few women have held. And that was even more true when Kai's was starting out. In 2013, Kai's Co founded the organization Sound Girls, which spotlights and offers grants to women working behind the scenes in the music industry. For another installment of our Women's History Month series, Equalizers, I am joined by Carrie Kaise. Kerry. Welcome to all of it.

[Carrie Kai's]

Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me.

[Kusha Navadar]

I'm great. I'm so excited to get to talk to you. I think this is such a wonderful experience that you have and career. I gotta ask, I want to just dive right into it. What was your first job in audio engineering?

[Carrie Kai's]

Unloading trucks. There was back then there was very limited audio programs to trade schools or even through universities. And it pretty much focused all on recording and they would do a little six week crash course in live sound. So yeah, most people back then started by pushing gear around.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah, absolutely. And you went on to great things from there. You toured with the California ska band the Untouchables when you were only 19, is that right?

[Carrie Kai's]

Yeah, it's probably, yeah.

[Kusha Navadar]

So you're unloading and loading trucks. You turned 19, you tore the California ska band the Untouchables. How did you land that position at such a young age?

[Carrie Kai's]

Well, by loading trucks and helping people out that couldn't afford to hire people. So I started working with under the mentorship of Dave Rot, which owns ROT Sound Systems, which at that point in time was a couple of little sound systems that would fit in a van or little box truck. And we did. We worked side by side for a long time with the Engineers for the Untouchables. So we provide the gear.

[Progressive Insurance]

Yeah.

[Carrie Kai's]

Come in and set it up. And those people started moving on. So we moved into. We filled those positions.

[Kusha Navadar]

Do you remember what it was that made you want to go into audio? And like you're saying, unpaid loading and unloading. Trust, ladies. Do you remember what you were kind of. What drew you towards that back then?

[Carrie Kai's]

I. I loved being around music. I knew I wanted to do something in music. When I was in school, no one. Teachers and counselors just said, that's not possible. And so I hung out at a lot of punk rock shows and made friends and started working.

[Kusha Navadar]

That's amazing. Yeah. It just drew you in. And, you know, while we're talking about the Untouchables, we got to hear a clip of the. So what's gone wrong? Let's hear it right now.

[Unknown Artist]

What's gone wrong? Only we're together. Next day you're gone. I keep asking myself, what's gone wrong?

[Kusha Navadar]

So let's go back to those early days. Let's stay in them for a second. I'm sure that you learned a lot. Do you remember maybe what the first, most important things you learned about audio engineering were? Do any lessons really stick out to you from those very early days?

[Carrie Kai's]

Well, such. Such Combat Audio back then.

[Kusha Navadar]

What's Combat Audio?

[Carrie Kai's]

Just. You're just reacting on the fly for every possible thing that's being thrown at you.

[Kusha Navadar]

Oh, I see.

[Carrie Kai's]

I guess probably the biggest thing is just to ask questions. And I think if you ask any veteran, they would rather people ask them questions than to have to go and fix what they did wrong.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah.

[Carrie Kai's]

So that. That's. That was probably the most important thing. The other. The other most important thing is actually showing up on time and. And staying the whole day and completing the job, which seems like a funny thing to say, but that happens more than we would like in the industry of people being late, not showing up, leaving.

[Kusha Navadar]

Don't be flaky.

[Carrie Kai's]

Don't be flaky.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. Execute on what you can control. Kind of. If you can be on time, be on time. You mentioned a mentor that you had. When you think about those early folks in the music industry, that really helped give you your start. Who else comes to mind? Who are some of your biggest mentors?

[Carrie Kai's]

Oh, well, Dave, Rod, of course, probably. I mean, I have. Have, you know, really good relationships with a lot of other engineers, but back then, everybody was really still figuring it out. So I would say my biggest mentors are probably the artists that I worked.

[Kusha Navadar]

With, like Untouchables and who else?

[Carrie Kai's]

I mean, I still ground the Untouchables as they gave me all the skills I needed. It was 12 people in the band, I think, and the shows were high energy and a ton going on. So, I mean, you're just. You're just watching and picking up any signals from the 12 people in the band so that, you know that being able to juggle that many people on stage and that the amount of instruments and what was happening, this really is really grounding.

[Kusha Navadar]

Can you help me understand a little bit? And for, you know, I'm sure folks in listeners right now might not know what a live concert engineer is. Specifically a monitor engineer. What does a monitor engineer do?

[Carrie Kai's]

So my job is to make sure that the band can hear, which. Whatever they need on stage. So I'm not necessarily doing a left and right mix for them. Very rarely are they all listening to the same thing. So now. Now technology is. Most of the artists use in ear mixes, but back then it was all wedges and ears did not exist.

[Kusha Navadar]

Or wedges are the kind of speakers.

[Carrie Kai's]

Yeah. So wedges are just little speakers that go on the stage pointing at. Hopefully pointing at the band members. They're. They don't really come in. Right. Really great angles. So you see us propping them up with pieces of wood.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. So this is something. This is something that, you know, folks who go concerts and aren't in the audio engineering world might not realize, but when you're an audience member in the concert, you are hearing a mix of what everyone on stage is playing live and it's being blasted at you through speakers. But when you're actually playing it, you can't really hear that mix. You are just hearing a lot of cacophony. And so those band members need something that can keep them in time and harmonious. Right, right. And that's where you come in.

[Carrie Kai's]

That's where I come in. And it seems like it would be. It's easier said than done because I'm fighting the. First the. The band volume on stage, then the pa, then any horrible room reflections, and then add a audience in there that are super energetic for the first five songs, and they're drowning out the band.

[Kusha Navadar]

So how do you do it? Like, where are you sitting somewhere? How are you hearing what they're hearing?

[Carrie Kai's]

It depends on the bigger productions these days. Typically, all the monitor world and stuff is built either backstage or underneath the stage. And they're, you know, they have microphones on stage that they can talk directly to the engineers. Typically now there's More than one engineer handling different band members because it gets. It can get really tricky and complicated and one person can't give. It's hard to give your full attention to every single band member.

[Kusha Navadar]

So you might actually be handling, at times, a team of engineers who are all kind of helping you make that final mix that the band members here.

[Carrie Kai's]

Yeah, kind of. So, like right now on Pearl J. So on Pearl Jam, on stage left, we have wings on the side of the stage. We're still hidden, but we're pretty eye level to the stage and the band guys currently. Last tour, we switched, and right now I'm only doing Ed monitoring needs, and another person's mixing the rest of the bad guys.

[Kusha Navadar]

Oh, I see. So you split it up, like, divided.

[Carrie Kai's]

So we split it up and, you know, and it depends on what tour it is. Some people take. It's. Some acts are using wedges and in ears. So someone will do all the. In ears and someone will do all the wedges.

[Kusha Navadar]

Interesting. So. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah. Or.

[Carrie Kai's]

Or I'm just, you know, like Beyonce. One person's mixing Beyonce only, and then someone else is handling the band.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah. And just to point out, Ed is Eddie Vedder. So you are literally, like, maybe his best bud on stage.

[Carrie Kai's]

So you can make sure I'm either his best bud or his worst enemy.

[Kusha Navadar]

Worst enemy, yeah. Something I find fascinating, talking to you is how much live makes a difference in your job. Obviously. And we think of audio engineers, we often think of folks in studios with those big boards kind of saying, hey, do this slightly differently. Do a new take. You don't get new takes. You get that one shot. Right. Did live always appeal to you? Did you ever want to be a studio engineer?

[Carrie Kai's]

Well, it. You know, those options weren't really there since I wasn't presented with, you know, we could list off, you know, 20 audio tech jobs at this point. And so. But starting in live sound, the times that I did go in the studio, I found I didn't have the patience for it because we're used to working in 30 seconds to get things done.

[Kusha Navadar]

You know, That's a similarity, I feel. In some ways, I love live radio, and it's just like the mic turns on and the show starts and it's kind of. That's.

[Carrie Kai's]

Yeah.

[Kusha Navadar]

I don't know if I would call myself an impatient person, but I definitely like the thrill, so I don't know if you feel the same way. There is a certain thrill, isn't there?

[Carrie Kai's]

There is a thrill, yeah.

[Kusha Navadar]

Let's talk about the Red Hot Chili Peppers a little bit. From 1990 to 2000, you were a monitor engineer for Red Hot Chili Peppers. How did you end up with that band?

[Carrie Kai's]

Kind of the same way. I was working for Rat Sound and we were, we were the punk rock company of Southern California. You know, there was companies that just one, they didn't pay. They didn't pay that well, two, they didn't want their equipment damaged, or three, it wasn't worth their time. So we, you know, we came in and swept all, all those shows up, which was fine because we loved working in that environment anyway.

[Progressive Insurance]

Yeah.

[Carrie Kai's]

And so I, we just did, you know, Chili Peppers were an LA band. So there was a ton of LA one offs with them, became friends with them and started working with them and that was that.

[Kusha Navadar]

Yeah, let's play some music. Here's Give It Away from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

[Unknown Artist]

Give it to your papa. What I got, you got to give it to your doctor. You do a little dancing and you drink a little water. What I got, you got to get it, put it in you. What I got, you got to get it, put it in you. What I got, you got to get it, put it in you. Feeling with the feeling, don't stop.

[Kusha Navadar]

That was Give It Away from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. We're talking with Carrie Kai's, who is a studio, sorry, a monitor engineer who is part of our series, looking at influential people in production who are women. And we are talking about all of the bands that you've worked with and we're talking about the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I assume that the job of a monitor engineer is not a one size fits all process. What are the different variables that you have to pay attention to as a monitor engineer?

[Carrie Kai's]

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, there's the normal. If we're playing outside, there's weather to deal with inside. You know, typically, you know, every venue presents different challenges. You know, you're in a club, a 500 seat club, the ceiling is probably maybe three feet above the band. So, you know, you like playing in a little tight box that gets hot and sweaty and that affects sound. So, you know, and then you go into arenas and they're just big and boomy and echoey and no one seems to like them. But we've all managed to figure out how to play them and I think make them sound pretty good. So there's that. Then you add band psychology into it.

[Kusha Navadar]

Tell me a little bit about that because I imagine that you have a. I mean, sorry, the pun, you Have a front row seat to band dynamics. And that's like a lot of puns in there for you, but you've got a lot of psychology. You are so close with the band. How do you. What, what. How often are you working with them? One on one? How much of it is you doing something independent, coming back to them? What does that working relationship look like?

[Carrie Kai's]

I. I think that depends on what band or artist it is. They all have different ways that they operate. You know, some bands will sound check for longer than their show every single day, and that's just the way they work. So I. At this point, you know, we're kind of dialed in sound wise. So, you know, band members will just. They'll either text or, you know, mention something of, well, this has been a problem, or I need that, you know, and you just come in and work on them. Yeah. And the other end of it is the psychology that's happening. Whatever's going on with them that day, you know, I'm. By the time they get to soundcheck, you know, for Pearl Jam, it's probably not as bad. But, you know, some artists are doing five interviews before they even get to soundcheck and do it. And then we're in New York. So you add the New York stress of doing a show is a lot different than playing in Tulsa, you know?

[Kusha Navadar]

Right, right, right.

[Carrie Kai's]

You know, so, yeah, you have to balance all those pressures, and then there' band dynamics that you have to kind of figure out and navigate around.

[Kusha Navadar]

And, you know, we just got a text. I want to read this to you. It says, love this. In the old days, there were no monitors at all. Fingers in ears. Yeah, that's the case.

[Carrie Kai's]

Exactly.

[Kusha Navadar]

Let's jump to some of the work that you're doing today. I want to talk about sound girls. When you were starting out, how. How many female engineers did you see around you and how much has that changed over the last few decades?

[Carrie Kai's]

Well, I see them on a regular basis now, so it's not. When I show up to work, I no longer shocked to see another woman working, which is great. Back then, I probably worked. I worked and I lost touch with her. I don't even know what her last name was, and I think her name was Rebecca. And she was mixing X. And that was super exciting because they were my favorite band. And then they had a woman mixing them, and then I got to work with them, and then the only other person I knew was Michelle. And we never. We took us over 20 years to actually meet. Oh, wow.

[Kusha Navadar]

It's Just kind of like you hear about these folks in the.

[Carrie Kai's]

You heard about them, you knew they existed, but there was no Internet. You couldn't Google them. And then hopefully get their email and get in contact with them.

[Kusha Navadar]

And how is it today?

[Carrie Kai's]

Today I. I am happy to say that when people call me for recommendations, I can give them an entire list of very qualified women for whatever role.

[Kusha Navadar]

And let's make sure we talk about Sound Girls because in 2013 you founded that organization. Sound Girls is aimed at supporting women in the music industry. Tell me how that started. Tell me what your mission is.

[Carrie Kai's]

Well, it started because we did a panel. There was five of us on a panel for an AES convention, which is the Audio Engineering Society conference that they have once a year. They have it more than once a year, but in different places. New York and Los Angeles has been kind of the mainstays. And it was, I can't remember, it was like titled the lot the women of Live Sound or something. Like it was just the five of us, but we all met like an hour before and we instantly bonded. None of us. I knew one. I knew of Michelle. First time I met her. I had worked with another woman, deanne, that was on the panel. So we knew each other, but everybody else I had never met didn't hear of instantly. We bonded and we just stayed in touch after. And we were like, you know, if. If we could have just hung out with each other 20 years ago, how much different our career might have been.

[Kusha Navadar]

And so to that point, I'm wondering what. Maybe quickly here as I'm looking at the clock, what resources does Sound Girls offer to your point?

[Carrie Kai's]

Mentorship, job opportunities, webinars. We have women that are write articles for us. I think three of them have gone on to. From writing from us to go and write for the actual trade magazines showcasing at conferences, very much advocating in the industry for diversity and inclusion of just being. You know that there are issues some people just will throw. They won't even look at the resumes from women or same with people of color. So pointing these things out and trying to get allies and make inroads wherever we can to get people and is.

[Kusha Navadar]

There a website that you want to plug for sound girls?

[Carrie Kai's]

Soundgirls.org Wonderful.

[Kusha Navadar]

Well, you know, Carrie, it's been such a pleasure, I mean number one, listening to your music myself inadvertently over the years, but also just getting to hear about your. Your career. I've been speaking with Carrie Kais, the monitor engineer and founder of the organization Sound Girls. Carrie, I'm going to say goodbye. And then we are going to go out on some Pearl Jam. So, Carrie, thank you so much for joining us.

[Carrie Kai's]

Really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

[Kusha Navadar]

Absolutely. And here's some Pearl Jam. Let's listen.

[Ira Flatow]

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