Ethan Hawke Stars in 'Blue Moon'

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Ethan Hawke Stars in 'Blue Moon'" — All Of It with Alison Stewart (WNYC) Episode date: October 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this rich and intimate conversation, host Alison Stewart welcomes Ethan Hawke to discuss his starring role as Lorenz “Larry” Hart in the new independent film Blue Moon. The film centers on Hart, the legendary lyricist of Rodgers and Hart, at the bittersweet turning point when Rodgers partners with Oscar Hammerstein to create Oklahoma, effectively ending their collaboration. Filmed almost entirely over a single night in 1943 at the opening party for Oklahoma at Sardi’s, Blue Moon explores themes of loss, change, artistic legacy, and personal struggle. Hawke shares insights about Hart’s character, the unique challenges of the film’s real-time structure, and the enduring relevance of the Rodgers and Hart songbook.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Lorenz Hart’s World on the Brink

• Historical and Emotional Context

  • The episode opens with Stewart framing Hawke’s performance amid his busy 2025 career, noting his ability to vanish “with aplomb in a terrible combover” into Hart’s frail, witty, woeful figure.
  • Hart at the party: “He’s sitting on the edge of a cliff…The Jazz Age is about to fall into oblivion, and all his work is going to be rendered irrelevant as something new takes off. Oklahoma…is nostalgic for a world that never existed.” (Ethan Hawke, 02:56)
  • Hart views Oklahoma as ushering in a new, less honest era, marking the passing of his own artistic moment.

• Hart’s Immediate Goal

  • "I really believe his goal that night is to convince Rodgers he’s a better partner than Oscar…He just expects more from a genius like Rodgers. If he can just stay sober long enough to convince Rodgers…obviously he should join, come back and work with me." (Ethan Hawke, 03:41)

2. The Unique Format: Real Time at a Party

• One Night, Real Time Storytelling
  • Hawke compares the narrative to a chain of dominoes: “Each domino has to hit the one in front of it…It’s not a movie that can be made in the editing room…It’s all happening in real time, and the stakes are so high.” (Ethan Hawke, 04:37)
  • The structure immerses viewers in a pivotal historical moment.

3. Loneliness and Melancholy: Hart’s Inner Life

• Root Causes of Hart’s Isolation
  • Hawke discusses Hart’s profound sense of loneliness, “He hates himself. He sees himself as unworthy of love…Whatever the real pain is—whether it’s being gay at a time when it was illegal, or knowing his talent is drying up—it’s all now overshadowed by the alcoholism.” (Ethan Hawke, 05:42)
  • The Rodgers and Hart songbook is described as “the definition of bittersweet…So funny, so smart, so alive, and it’s so deeply sad and lonely.” (Ethan Hawke, 05:42)

4. Echoes of Breakup: Artistic Collaboration as Intimacy

• The Rodgers-Hart Dynamic
  • Hawke and Andrew Scott (Rodgers) focused on evoking a decades-long partnership in their characters’ final exchange: “Artistic breakups are different than romantic breakups. There’s an intimacy…They wrote a thousand songs together…That’s a lot of nights drinking and carousing at burlesque houses.”
  • “It’s kind of like the ex-wife showing up at your new wedding and wanting them to thrive and wanting this breakup to be good for both…but it’s not going to be okay for Larry.” (Ethan Hawke, 07:47)
• Jealousy and Artistic Evolution
  • “Imagine if you were the greatest mandolin player in the world and then you watched Elvis break…You want to say, ‘Don’t you remember the mandolin? It’s amazing!’ But it’s not what the world wants anymore.” (Ethan Hawke, 10:00)

5. The Impossible Romance: Hart & Elizabeth

• Hart’s Relationship with Elizabeth (Margaret Qualley)

  • “She might have represented the idea of a 1943 quote-unquote ‘normal’ relationship…He creates a new pain, putting all his energy on Elizabeth. That’s a pain he can control, whereas the Richard Rodgers pain is overwhelming.” (Ethan Hawke, 11:36)

• Notable Clip – Larry and Elizabeth

  • The banter between Larry and Elizabeth (Margaret Qualley) at the party is both flirtatious and bittersweet. Example:
    • Elizabeth: “Do you like the hair?”
    • Larry: “I love it. It’s much better than the red…It’s much more otherworldly.” (13:02)

• On Elizabeth’s Motivations

  • “She’s practical, not evil…She really wants to meet Richard Rodgers.” (Alison Stewart, 14:08)
  • Hawke: “He’s so thrilled to use whatever tool he has to get her attention…” (Ethan Hawke, 14:33)

6. The Script and Performance

• Verbal Brilliance
  • “My character does not stop talking. It’s almost like a man who’s put in front of a firing squad, and if he stops talking, he’ll be killed.” (Ethan Hawke, 15:17)
  • Hawke praises Robert Kaplow’s script: “The screenplay is so disciplined, so precise, it’s just a phenomenal piece of writing. Sometimes admiration for a script just blossoms because the level of difficulty is so high.” (Ethan Hawke, 15:17)

7. Legacy and the American Songbook

• Favorite Song
  • Stewart asks about a favorite Rogers and Hart song —
    • Hawke: “‘My Funny Valentine’… But I didn’t know ‘Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered’…It’s eight minutes long…Listen to Ella Fitzgerald’s version…It’s like a little play.” (Ethan Hawke, 17:00)
    • “These lyrics can be better.” (Ethan Hawke, 17:00)

8. The Plight and Pride of Independent Cinema

• Distribution and Audience

  • “The hard thing about independent cinema is you do it, and you don’t get paid and it doesn’t come out and nobody sees it, and it’s this huge source of joy in your life. I am the advertising budget for ‘Blue Moon’…” (Ethan Hawke, 18:04)
  • “You really don’t need to know who Larry Hart is…He’s worth meeting, you know?” (Ethan Hawke, 18:04)

• On Universality and Humanity in Art

  • Referring to Tom Stoppard: “I read all those books so you don’t have to—just come see the play…We’re not here teaching anything.” (Ethan Hawke, 18:04)
  • “There are hearts broken and people killed in this movie, but nobody does it out of malice…It’s really human, and I love that about it.” (Ethan Hawke, 18:04)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Oklahoma, in a strange way, represents the moment America started seeing itself in the third person…telling ourselves stories that feel good and are flattering but aren't true.”
  — Ethan Hawke, [02:56]

• “He hates himself. He sees himself as unworthy of love. And what started that? I don't know…At the point we find him, his temporary cure for his loneliness, alcohol, has overshadowed whatever the real pain is…”
  — Ethan Hawke, [05:42]

• “It’s kind of like the ex-wife showing up at your new wedding and wanting them to thrive and be good…It’s not going to be okay for Larry.”
  — Ethan Hawke, [07:47]

• “Artistic breakups are different than romantic breakups. They're similar. There's an intimacy…That's a lot of nights drinking and carousing at burlesque houses.”
  — Ethan Hawke, [07:47]

• “If he stops talking, he'll be killed…I giggled through the entire experience of memorizing.”
  — Ethan Hawke, [15:17]

• "You really don’t need to know who Larry Hart is…He’s worth meeting, you know?”
  — Ethan Hawke, [18:04]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:09 — Introduction & context for Ethan Hawke’s career and Blue Moon
• 01:15 — Clip: Larry (Hawke) and Richard Rodgers (Andrew Scott) at Sardi’s
• 02:45 — Hawke’s physical transformation and initial acclaim for the role
• 02:56 — What’s happening with Hart that night
• 03:41 — Hart’s goal at the party
• 04:37 — Challenges of real-time storytelling
• 05:42 — Discussion: The roots of Hart’s loneliness, alcoholism, and legacy of his lyrics
• 07:47 — Hawke on artistic breakups and the Rodgers-Hart relationship
• 10:00 — Envy vs. jealousy and the changing face of American music
• 11:08 — Hart’s fixation on the much younger Elizabeth (Margaret Qualley)
• 12:53 — Clip: Larry and Elizabeth’s tender conversation at the party
• 15:17 — Hawke reflects on the script’s unique demands and joys
• 17:00 — Hawke on favorite Rodgers & Hart songs and their enduring relevance
• 18:04 — Reflections on independent film, audiences, and artistic purpose

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Summary

This compelling episode offers a deep dive into Blue Moon and Ethan Hawke’s committed, captivating performance as Lorenz Hart. Through their dialogue, Stewart and Hawke explore not only the artistry behind the film but the wider questions of artistic relevance, deep creative bonds, and the emotional turmoil of change. Hawke brings Hart’s bittersweet wit and loneliness to life, inviting listeners to appreciate the depth and complexity of both the character and his era. Blue Moon emerges not just as a period piece, but as a reflection on the ache of loss, evolution in the arts, and the stubborn, shining spark of human creativity.

Transcript

[Alison Stewart]

You're listening to all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In the fall of 2025, you can get your Ethan Hawkes fix several ways. He's playing a spooky character in the film Black Phone 2. He's playing a man in search of the truth in Sterlin Harjo's the Low down on fx. And he is in a role that some say is the best of his career. In the film Blue Moon, he play Lorenz Hart, the lyricist who worked for years with Richard Rodgers, creating songs like Isn't It Romantic and My Funny Valentine. That is, until Rogers decides to work with Oscar Hammerstein on a little thing called Oklahoma. Hart is watching his work relationship slip away while Rodgers and Hammerstein have created a show that he thinks is sappy and for the hoi polloi. And that's where we meet him in the film at the opening night party for Oklahoma. Where Hart is hurt and finding some comfort in booze. Again. Here's a clip of Loren's Hart, known as Larry corning Richard Rogers at the party. Rogers is played by Andrew Scott. This is from Blue Moon.

[Ethan Hawke]

I remember when I first heard about you, you were just Morty Rogers, little brother. What, you were 17, 16. Yeah, I was 23.

[Alison Stewart]

Well drawn.

[Ethan Hawke]

Yeah, you were the wise old man in the mountain. But when I first heard you play your stuff, I knew you had it. I wasn't entirely convinced that I had it, but I read something that afternoon. Originality, melody, grace. Oh, come on. Come on, Larry, stop it. Come on. What's the matter with you? You worked your whole life for this night, Dick. Nobody's worked harder and nobody deserves it more. All right, thanks. Excellent. Thanks. All right, all right. That's what I wanted to just go enjoy your party. Hey, look at me. Look at me. We're gonna do a Connecticut Yankee, all new. Yeah. I'm gonna write four or five new songs. I have ideas already. Right? Yeah. And if I get some pages down for Marco Polo, can I send them over? You have to ask me that, Larry? I owe my professional life to you.

[Alison Stewart]

Hawke is almost unrecognizable in the film. He appears to be about 5ft tall, balding, with brown eyes. He really disappears into the role. Blue Moon was a New York Times critics pick the review saying the who is pretty much nonstop heart chatter as he throws off witticisms and barbs and compliments. Some tender, some terribly insincere. And Hawke does it all with aplomb in a terrible combover. And you love him, Ethan. Hawke. Welcome to all of it.

[Ethan Hawke]

Wow, thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

So the film takes place almost entirely in one night at Sardis in 1943. What's going on with Loren's heart when we meet him?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, I mean, this is an opening night party that changed the world. You know, I mean, that's what's going on with him is he's sitting on the edge of a cliff in his whole era. The Jazz age is about to fall into oblivion, and all his work is basically going to be rendered irrelevant as something new takes off. You know, Oklahoma, in a strange way, represents the moment America started seeing itself in the third person. And, you know, as Larry says, Oklahoma is nostalgic for a world that never existed. You know, where we're telling ourselves stories that feel good and are flattering but aren't true.

[Alison Stewart]

So what is his goal that night at the party?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, put simply, I think I really believe his goal that night is to convince Rogers that he's a better partner than Oscar. You know, to present him this idea of this musical Marco Polo and to give himself life back to, as he says to. To. To Rogers. He just says, I, I expect more from you. We can do more. It's not that he doesn't like Oklahoma. He just expects more from a genius like Rogers. So I think his dream is if he can just stay sober long enough to convince Rogers that obviously he should join, come back and work with me.

[Alison Stewart]

What was challenging, sustaining a character in sort of a real time narrative? This is 90 minutes. It's like 90 minutes at a party. 90 minutes in the life of Loren's heart. What was hard for you or challenging for you to sustain that?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, it's like this. It's like, you know, have you ever seen those really complicated dominoes where they line them up and they make a shape as you knock them down when you're making a film in real time, like, you watch me walk into that party and by the time you leave the party, you know I'm gonna be dead it all. Each domino has to hit the one in front of it. It's not a movie that's gonna be made in the editing room when they can't rearrange the scenes. It's can't. You can't cut out one part of the performance or shave it. It's. It's all happening in real time. And the stakes are so high. Yeah, I mean, first of all, just the idea. I would so love to be able to go to the 1943 and attend the opening night party. Of Oklahoma and man. But it would thrill me to no end. So to be able to invite the audience into this moment, that's the spell that the movie's trying to capture or throw or cast, whatever the right word is.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, we get a sense that Larry is, you know, he's going through tough times emotionally. He's a little bit lonely. What's the cause of his loneliness?

[Ethan Hawke]

A little bit lonely. I mean, if you listen to the Rogers and Hart songbook, which is staggering and I highly recommend, if anybody has any interest, Ella Fitzgerald's Double Alb. Ella Sings Rogers and Hart it's just phenomenal. And there's something it should. This, they should play this album. When they have the dictionary, it says melancholy, they should just play this album. It's the definition of bittersweet. It's so funny, it's so smart, it's so alive and it's so deeply sad and lonely. And a lot of that comes from these lyrics of Lorenz Hart. The Lady Is a Tramp, My Funny Valentine. You know, you mentioned a handful, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. They're heartbreaking and they're funny. So why is he lonely? He's lonely because he hates himself. First of all, he sees himself as unworthy of love. And what started that? I don't know, you know, part of the. At the point we find him his temporary cure for his loneliness. Alcohol has overshadowed whatever the real pain is, you know, whether it's being gay in a time in America when it was illegal, whether it's the fact that he knows the wellspring of his talent is drying up, whether I don't. It's a lot of things now that are now totally overshadowed by the alcoholism.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, we're talking to Ethan Hawke about his new film Blue Moon, about the life and career of Lorenz Hart. You know, Richard Rogers remains pretty gracious and he wants to keep working with his friend, but he wants him to be his work friend. He wants him to show up on time, to show up not drunk. How did you and Andrew Scott, who plays Richard Rogers, how did you develop sort of a dynamic of we're going to be friends but I'm wary of you, Larry?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, it's kind of like we're seeing this 25 year relationship in the last conversation they ever had. You know, it was. It was a real challenge to try to fit all the feelings we wanted, to fit all the emotions that we wanted to be alive and in the present moment, without exposition. You know, a normal biopic would show you when they first Met and show you their first hit song and show you when they won their award and show you when they're on the COVID of Time magazine and then show you the 15 times he showed up drunk. But we're just getting to see them on this last conversation. And it. One of the things that was important to Andrew, we know a lot about. I mean, the two of us have been involved in the theater and artistic life our whole lives. And artistic breakups are different than romantic breakups. They're similar. There's an intimacy. These guys wrote a thousand songs together. I mean, they wrote so much music. That's so many late nights sharing your innermost thoughts, trying to get at something real, talking about what their relationships, their fathers are like, what their relationships to the lovers are like. That's a lot of nights drinking and carousing at burlesque houses. I mean, if you see interviews with Richard Rogers late in his life, he is powerfully angry about the end of their relationship. And he's full of so much love and humor when he talks about the beginning. It's very moving. The relationship meant a lot to him. But it's kind of like. I don't know if you. What Andrew and I thought about. It's kind of like the ex wife showing up at your new wedding and wanting them to thrive and be good and wanting this breakup to be good for both of them, you know, and it's not going to be okay for Larry.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. It's interesting because it kind of sent me to the dictionary. Is it envy or is it jealousy? When I looked up the two, like, you know, envy is when a person wants what someone else has, but jealousy is when you fear losing what you have to a third party. And I thought maybe it's both.

[Ethan Hawke]

Yeah, it's. And I also think it's complicated for Larry because I think he's seeing it's not just Richard Rogers fault and it's not just his alcoholism. He wants something else from his art and what it's kind of like. I likened it to this. Imagine if you were the greatest mandolin player in the world and then you watched Elvis break. And you now know in the days following that no one in the world cares how good you are at a mandolin.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Ethan Hawke]

And your whole life has been dedicated to something that people think is antiquated and how difficult that would be because you want to be. Hey, guys, we. Don't you remember the mandolin? It's amazing. Check out this amazing mandolin solo. And when the world is kind of loose, is. Is. Is waning out of what their. That great American songbook work. The musical theater was changing, getting more and evolving for the better in many ways. But it wasn't what Larry did.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, you know, he starts to cling to the hope of a relationship with a woman named Elizabeth, a much younger girl, a college girl half his age, played by Margaret Qualley. She's just bee's knees. She's exc.

[Ethan Hawke]

I know she is.

[Alison Stewart]

What does the sort of. It's an impossible romance, really. But what does it reveal about his character? Him wanting to be with Elizabeth? Whatever Bea is.

[Ethan Hawke]

Yeah, whatever Bea meant to Larry, she might have represented to him the idea of a 1943 quote unquote normal relationship. If he could just carry off something, maybe that would change people's perception of him. And maybe her beauty was staggeringly inspiring to him. Maybe he really did love her poetry. But more, what I came to see is it reminded me of someone self cutting that. It's the trauma and pain of losing Richard Rogers is so great and so significant, it's almost like a lance to his chest. And if he looks at it, he knows he's going to die. So he creates a new pain. He kind of starts, you know, putting all his energy on Elizabeth, and that's a pain. I think he's smart enough to know this relationship is never gonna work out, but it's a pain that feels familiar and uncontrollable, whereas the Richard Rogers pain is just overwhelming.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, let's listen to another clip from Blue Moon. This is Ethan Hawke and Margaret Qualley as Larry and Elizabeth when Elizabeth shows up at the party.

[Ethan Hawke]

Elizabeth.

[Alison Stewart]

Larry.

[Ethan Hawke]

My irreplaceable Elizabeth.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm so happy to see you. Do you like the hair?

[Ethan Hawke]

I love it. It's much better than the red.

[Alison Stewart]

I think so.

[Ethan Hawke]

I mean, I like the red too, but this is much more otherworldly.

[Alison Stewart]

I have to go set up for the party. No, no, no.

[Ethan Hawke]

I got you some flowers. Aw. I'm overwhelmed. I have that effect on people.

[Alison Stewart]

I have so much to tell you. Like what I've been writing in my journal again.

[Ethan Hawke]

I hope you let me read it. No, no, no, no. The big one.

[Alison Stewart]

And these are what Richard Rogers is getting. Larry.

[Ethan Hawke]

What?

[Alison Stewart]

My mother would die if she saw this. With your permission.

[Ethan Hawke]

Permission granted.

[Alison Stewart]

That guy I told you about, Cooper. It finally happened. Yes, on my birthday. The night of my 20th birthday. Pretty dramatic, actually. You could write a play about it.

[Ethan Hawke]

A musical. He has risen, Larry. It's an Easter musical. It's very religious.

[Alison Stewart]

Let me clarify by Saying it almost happened.

[Ethan Hawke]

Clarify immediately.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm gonna tell you the whole story.

[Ethan Hawke]

I demand to know the shorthand version. Now.

[Alison Stewart]

The shorthand version. Okay. The skin on his back was flawless. Gotta run. You're going to introduce me to Richard Rogers, right? It's so interesting because she's practical in many ways. She's not evil. She really wants to meet Richard Rogers. How does Larry respond to that?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, I don't know. You can imagine, right? I mean, I.

[Alison Stewart]

So sad.

[Ethan Hawke]

I've spent half my life meeting, you know, actors and stuff and we're having a nice time and they say, are you going to introduce me to link letter? You know, like, you know, I mean, we all, we all know that feeling, but I think he's so thrilled to use whatever tool he has to get her attention. If that means the, the, the carrot of meeting Richard Rogers, fine. You know, he's going to use every card he's got.

[Alison Stewart]

What did you like about the script? What was unique about the script, which was written by Richard Kaplow?

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, listen, you know, my character does not stop talking. He. It's almost like a man who's put in front of a firing squad. And if he stops talking, he'll be killed. I mean, that's how I felt about it. And so it was an unbelievable amount of verbiage to have to memorize. But I giggled through the entire experience of memorizing. I would be sitting there running lines to myself, just cackling at me being a coffee shop looking like a lunatic as I. Just because he's so smart, you know, And I've been lucky enough. One time in my life I did this play, the coast of Utopia and got to spend nine months in a rehearsal room with Tom Stoppard. And when you're in the presence of a world class mind with a world class wit, it is so delightful. And Larry's just delightful to be near his insights, whether they're wicked or silly or whatever. They're so funny and so smart that I would. It was just so enjoyable in the. The screenplay is so disciplined, it's so precise, it's built so well. It's just a phenomenal piece of writing. And you know, as actors we have this thing. Sometimes you read a script and the more you work on it, the more it falls apart in your hands. You just wait. That doesn't make sense. Why would she say that then? And then sometimes you work on something in your admiration for it just blossoms because the level of difficulty is so hard. And to capture Rogers and Hart on this night, it's like, I just. Hats off to Robert Kaplo.

[Alison Stewart]

You're a musician. What song do you really like that they wrote?

[Ethan Hawke]

My Funny Valentine. You know, My Funny Valentine is one of my absolute favorites. But I didn't know Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered. And I promise you, stop what you're doing out there. For find time, put on some headphones. It's eight minutes long. Listen to Ella Fitzgerald's version. Listen to any version. But I love Ella's. And close your eyes. And it's like a little play. It's the most amazing piece of writing. It's just, it's. It's unlike anything in contemporary music. And I want to, you know, I have all these young people in my life and I want to send all these popular musicians. I'm like, please, please listen to the Rogers. These lyrics can be better.

[Alison Stewart]

You guys, you've been working so hard to get the word out about this movie, about this beautiful small movie, this independent movie. What is something that you want people to know about the movie? You've been working 24 7.

[Ethan Hawke]

Well, look, here's the hard thing about independent cinema is you do it and you don't get paid and it doesn't come out and nobody sees it, and it's this huge source of joy in your life. I don't know why. I can't explain it. I am the advertising budget for Blue Moon. And we live in a society and a culture where, you know, people can buy your time. You know, if they put this advertisement in front of you over and over again, it seems important, you know, and in. In that way, culture atrophies because we're only getting sent advertisements for things that people think are wildly commercial. And I don't want anything from people except for them to know it's coming out. And if it sounds interesting, if it. If it sounds boring and to you, then don't go see it, for crying out loud. You've got a busy life. But if you want us to. If this sounds intriguing and the thing that's important to me, I guess, is that you really don't need to know who Larry Hart is. I didn't. You know, he's a fascinating human being. You'll get to meet him in the movie and he's worth meeting. You know that. It's one of my favorite. Stoppard. When we were doing coast of Utopia, it was all about these mid 19th century Russian radicals. And the Times did this report about all the books you should read to really enjoy watching the play. And Tom was furious. He was like, I read all those books so you don't have to just come see the play, you know, accept it as a piece of theater you don't need. It's not. We're not here teaching anything. So really what I'm here. I love your program. I love news, not noise. I totally agree. I love the opportunity to tell people that Richard Linkletter is one of our great filmmakers. He really cares about people. One of the things that I love about the movie and it's in the writing and the direction and hopefully the playing, but that there are hearts broken and there are people killed in this movie, but nobody does it out of malice. No one. Everyone's acting out of goodwill and an attempt to try to be a good person. And still hearts get clobbered through blind spots, through indecision, through lack of clarity, through self harm. And it's really human. And I love that about. I'm proud of that about boyhood and I'm proud of that about before trilogy and all the movies that I've made with Richard Linklater. And this one is really unique. It's just Larry Hart is a unique soul and it delights me that he's being talked about on the radio today.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the movie is Blue Moon. Ethan, thanks for being with us.

[Ethan Hawke]

You kidding? Thanks for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

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[Ethan Hawke]

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