Exploring New York's Art World in the Eighties

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Host: Alison Stewart
Episode: Exploring New York's Art World in the Eighties
Date: October 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of All Of It spotlights the new exhibition “Downtown Uptown: New York in the 80s” at the Levy Gorvey Diane Gallery, which traces the electric, diverse, and politically charged art scene of 1980s New York City. Host Alison Stewart is joined by renowned dealer and 80s art scene trailblazer Mary Boone and exhibition co-curator/gallerist Brett Gorvey. Together, they discuss the artistic energy, key artists, social issues, and lasting legacies of this transformative era.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining the 80s Art Scene

• Energy and Possibility of the Era

  • Brett Gorvey describes the show as “a love letter to New York” — an era when the city was emerging from bankruptcy and creativity flourished despite material scarcity.
  • The show includes 78 works by 25 artists, capturing styles like Neo-expressionism, street art, and pop art, including icons like Basquiat, Warhol, Kruger, and Koons.
  • [01:42] Brett Gorvey:

    “I came to New York in 1983 as a 19 year old student and was immediately taken in by the energy … This was a time where you had young artists downtown … there was huge possibility. I mean, there was no money … graffiti on the streets, and that excitement is really what we wanted to capture for the show.”

• Physicality and Community Pre-Internet

  • Mary Boone reflects on a time when art was experienced in person, and a tightknit community of collectors and artists mingled in Soho on weekends.
  • She laments the impact of the internet on experiencing art, saying that viewing works online “is not positive for the art world.”
  • [02:58] Mary Boone:

    “Since it was pre-Internet, people were much more given to see things, actually … there was kind of an actuality to it that made it, I think, more relevant.”

• The “Freshness” and “Emotion” that Still Resonates

  • Gorvey notes that young audiences today are especially struck by how vital and emotional these works still feel, reinforcing the enduring relevance of the 80s art scene.
  • [04:33] Brett Gorvey:

    “The two words that I've heard from the most has been the freshness … People are talking about this feeling very fresh and original … The other thing is the word emotional … That people, these artists were really connecting with the city, they were connecting with the street and bringing the street into the gallery.”

Social Issues, Identity, and Diversity

• Spotlight on Women and Underrepresented Artists

  • Boone and Gorvey highlight the prominence of women artists and political critique in the era, referencing the Guerrilla Girls’ activism and artists like Cindy Sherman, Barbara Kruger, and Louise Lawler.
  • [06:11] Mary Boone:

    “Particularly the Guerrilla Girls … the number of women that were out there making work, like Cindy Sherman, Louise Lawler, Sally Mann, Barbara Kruger, Katie Noland … That was, I think, you know, just remembering back …”

• Impact of the AIDS Crisis

  • The 80s New York scene was deeply shaped by the AIDS epidemic, with artists like Robert Mapplethorpe and David Wojnarowicz creating work that addressed or was affected by the crisis.
  • [06:51] Mary Boone:

    “The whole AIDS crisis and having Robert Mapplethorpe and David Wojnarowicz and Ross Bleckner, whose work has always been about … has had a large part to do with AIDS.”

Avoiding Nostalgia: The Living Legacy

• Curating for Relevance, Not Nostalgia

  • Gorvey emphasizes that most of the featured artists are still alive and actively working, making the exhibition less about nostalgia and more about the ongoing influence of their pioneering early work.
  • The selection encapsulates how the artists' formative years in the 80s continue to inform their present.
  • [07:37] Brett Gorvey:

    “No one wants to be pigeonholed to what you were doing in 1982 or 83, when ultimately you're working today … It’s not about nostalgia … It's showing really what was the pioneering aspect of this period …”

• Community and Camaraderie

  • The exhibit brought together artists who still know and compete with one another, highlighting a strong sense of community that endures.
  • [09:49] Mary Boone:

    “Still competition, yeah.”

  • [09:52] Brett Gorvey:

    “It's that sense of community which I think we really feel when you walk through the space.”

Memorable Artworks and Anecdotes

• The Basquiat "Punching Bag"
  • Mary Boone recounts the story of a Basquiat piece in the show— a punching bag inscribed with her name and crowned — suggesting it represented Basquiat’s protection of her at a difficult time in her life.
  • [10:32] Mary Boone:

    “Normally the way Jean Michel worked was that people that were important in his life … he wrote their names on paintings. I think I kind of thought it was about … that he felt that I got picked on … But that he's going to crown me.”

  • [12:01] Mary Boone:

    “I don't feel very tough. I feel like I thought you were a wimp … Maybe he wanted to bring it out because he was really that kind of person. He liked to bring out the best in people.”

Downtown vs. Uptown: The City’s Dual Art Worlds

• Geography of Creation vs. Aspiration
  • Downtown was where artists lived, worked, and created; uptown was home to established galleries and influential collectors — the “aspiration.”
  • [12:34] Brett Gorvey:

    “Downtown was basically where the artists were living, where they were making the work. And it was very much about the street and ultimately the sense of community. But they had aspirations. Their aspirations was uptown … that's where, you know, the very established galleries were … the story of the city.”

Gallery Legends and Influencers

• Influential Galleries and Dealers
  • The group recalls titans of the gallery world like Leo Castelli, Paula Cooper, and the profound connections between gallerists and artists that shaped careers and movements.
  • [14:12] Alison Stewart:

    “It’s so interesting to hear you talk about, like, oh, Paula Cooper. Oh, Leo Castelli. I mean, these are huge galleries.”

Favorite Works & Exhibition Character

• Impossible to Choose a Favorite
  • When asked to name one standout work, Boone refuses, emphasizing the overall quality of the show— from Andy Warhol’s ‘Fright Wig’ to Barbara Kruger’s rediscovered “What Me Worry,” and Jeff Koons’ “vacuum cleaners.”
  • [14:50] Mary Boone:

    “That is impossible to answer because we took a lot of time to try to have everybody represented at their top level. I mean, the Fright wig of Andy's is a groundbreaking work. And the Barbara Kruger, what me worry, that's a piece that, you know, I had lost track of and I'm so happy to see it back again. And, you know, the Jeff Koons vacuum cleaners, I mean, just keep going on.”

  • The show draws primarily from private collections, creating an intimate and personal atmosphere:
    • [15:54] Brett Gorvey:

      “Most of this comes from private collectors. We didn't go to museums … Many of these works have come from people's homes, actually from the bedrooms of collectors. So that intimacy is something you really feel.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the 80s art scene’s pulse:
  • Brett Gorvey [01:42]: “I've often referred to this as a love letter to New York … New York was coming out of bankruptcy. There was huge possibility … that excitement is really what we wanted to capture for the show.”
• On experiencing art in person:
  • Mary Boone [02:58]: “It was more like, what was the routine? … It was a great thing because you saw things in person. There was a kind of actuality to it that made it, I think, more relevant.”
• On modern reception:
  • Brett Gorvey [04:33]: “People … see the vitality. The two words that I've heard from the most has been the freshness … and emotional.”
• On selecting pieces for the show:
  • Mary Boone [14:50]: “That is impossible to answer … Every single piece is a masterpiece.”
• On Basquiat’s punching bag:
  • Mary Boone [10:32]: “Normally the way Jean Michel worked was that people that were important in his life … he wrote their names on paintings. So I was no different.”
• On the show’s intimacy and private collections:
  • Brett Gorvey [15:54]: “Most of this comes from private collectors … Many of these works have come from people's homes, actually from the bedrooms of collectors. So that intimacy is something you really feel.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:42] – Gorvey on capturing the 80s energy
• [02:58] – Boone on pre-internet art viewing and community
• [04:33] – Audience response: freshness and emotional connection
• [06:11] – Inclusion of women artists and the Guerrilla Girls
• [06:51] – The AIDS crisis in art
• [07:37] – Curating to avoid nostalgia; living artists
• [09:52] – The ongoing sense of community
• [10:32] – The story of Basquiat’s “punching bag”
• [12:34] – Downtown vs. uptown art worlds
• [14:50] – On the impossibility of naming a single standout artwork

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is lively, animated, and deeply reverential of New York’s creative history. Both Boone and Gorvey speak with passion, warmth, and a sense of community, often peppered with personal anecdotes and insider references. Stewart’s questions are informed and enthusiastic, facilitating a natural, engaging discussion.

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Conclusion

This episode offers both an evocative snapshot of 80s New York’s transformative art scene and a meditation on the lasting, living legacy of its artists and community. Listeners gain an appreciation for not only the iconic artwork of the era, but the physical, social, and emotional environments that shaped it— and have the chance to see it anew at the Levy Gorvey Diane Gallery’s exhibition.

Transcript

[WNYC Announcer]

WNYC is supported by I'm here and.

[Mary Boone]

I'm Ready to Go.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. A new two floor townhouse gallery on the Upper east side reflects a period of the state of New York art scene that features people like Jeff Koons, Barbara Kruger, Jean Michel Basquiat and Andy Warhol. It's called Downtown Uptown New York in the 80s. It's on display at the Levy Gordon Diane Gallery at 19 East 64th street with works of about 78 artists. Excuse me. With 78 works by 25 artists, the exhibition captures a moment when styles like Neo expressionism, street art and pop art dominated the art world. It was also a time filled with political critique. For example, the show includes a 1985 Girl Guerrilla Girls poster highlighting how few women artists were exhibited in New York museums the previous year. Downtown Uptown New York in the 80s is on display now through Saturday, September. Excuse me, December 13th. The co curators join me in studio right now. Mary Boone opened the Mary Boone Gallery in 1977 and is credited with helping define the 80s. Mary, welcome to the studio.

[Mary Boone]

Thank you for having me here.

[Alison Stewart]

And Brett Gorvey is the co founder of the Levi Gorbin Diane Gallery and co curator of the exhibit. Welcome to you as well.

[Brett Gorvey]

Thank you.

[Alison Stewart]

I'm very excited to have you in studio. Brett, what is something about the 80s that you wanted to emphasize in this exhibition?

[Brett Gorvey]

I think for me, as you can hear from my accent, I'm British. But I came to New York in 1983 as a 19 year old student and was immediately taken in by the energy and really the, the show is really about New York. I mean, I've often referred to this as a love letter to New York. And this was a time where you had young artists downtown basically living off the Bowery, living basically in a very, you know, New York was a, was, was coming out of bankruptcy. So this was a time ultimately where there was huge possibility. I mean there was no money, there was, you know, art was, was basically people were, you know, graffiti on the streets. And that excitement is really what we wanted to capture for the show. And working with Mary because Mary was basically part of this history. I mean she, she was it, she was the queen of downtown.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, I came to New York in 88, graduated from school, came with my friend who was an art history major and like going to Mary Boone Gallery was a big deal. I just want to say that out loud.

[Mary Boone]

Very nice to say that it is. Well, come on.

[Brett Gorvey]

Legend.

[Alison Stewart]

Legend. Exactly how would You, Mary, categorize the people involved in the 80s art scene. What were they like?

[Mary Boone]

I think since it was pre Internet, people were much more given to see things, actually. So there was. It was more like, what was the routine? And it was on particularly on Saturdays, you had collectors, all kind of starting in mass uptown, all, like in the 70s and 80s, coming downtown to have lunch at Bellotto's and then going to the Soho Galleries. And it was a great thing because you saw things in person. You had Victor Ganz talking about how this was like going to Picasso Studio. And there was a kind of actuality to it that made it, I think, more relevant. And for the show that Brett and I have done at his gallery, so many people that come in are people that I knew from, like, the late 70s, early 80s that want to remind me of what they bought from me 40 years ago. And they're so happy to have this because so much now is seen on the Internet. And I mean, various industries grew as a part of the Internet positively. I think the Internet has not been positive for the art world.

[Alison Stewart]

Why not?

[Mary Boone]

Because people shouldn't see art. They should see it in person. Yeah, I mean, don't you agree?

[Brett Gorvey]

Totally. I think. I mean, one of the things which has been amazing about the show because we've had, you know, this is the biggest response we've had to any show we've ever done, really. We had more than 800 people on Saturday. And as Mary said, it's been fascinating. Fascinating to see people come either because they lived it and they survived it, which I think is also part of it. But I think, you know, so they're people who obviously are, you know, who were young in the 80s, but actually it's the younger audience. I think what's been the most interesting for me was to see people in their 20s who don't necessarily realize, you know, what the 80s were. You know, they were basically. They probably weren't even born at that stage. And yet they come in and they see the vitality. And the two words that I've heard from the most has been the freshness. You know, we talk about works that were made 40, 50 years ago, and yet people are talking about this feeling very fresh and original. And I think it's the sum of that which people are really seeing. And then I think the other thing is the word emotional, because again, when we put the show together, it was meant to be very sort of a historical survey and to hear people talking about emotion. And I think it's their connection. I mean, you talked about that sort of actuality of living in this experience. I think the fact that people, these artists were really connecting with the city, they were connecting with the street and bringing the street into the gallery. And I think that's where the excitement is, that people really feel the vitality of this moment through the art.

[Alison Stewart]

Mary, what were memories that came flooding back to you as you selected works for the show?

[Mary Boone]

Hmm, that's a hard question because, like, I think we had a hard time choosing because there was so much good work.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Mary Boone]

And also kind of representing what the real issues were at the time. I mean, particularly the Guerrilla Girls, as you stated it, but, you know, the number of women that were out there making work, like Cindy Sherman, like Louise Lawler, Sally Mann, Barbara Kruger, Katie Noland, and these people are all really great artists. And that was, I think, you know, just remembering back and then the whole AIDS crisis and having Robert Mapplethorpe and David Wojnarowicz and Ross Bleckner, whose work has always been about, I mean, has had a large, large part to do with aids. And he's dedicated a lot of his personal time to crea, which was an AIDS driven charity.

[Alison Stewart]

Brett, as thinking about the show, thinking as a curator about this show, how did you want to curate the experience, the time of living in the 80s, but you didn't want to veer into nostalgia?

[Brett Gorvey]

Yeah, I think that's a very important point because these are all working artists. We're very lucky in the sense that we've chosen a decade where most of the artists survived. Apart from Warhol, Basquia, Keith Haring and Robert Mapplethorpe, everyone in the show is very much alive and working and present. And I think that, you know, when we talk to the artists and the artists have been amazingly supportive and being very much part of the show, you know, no one wants to be pigeonholed to what you were doing in 1982 or 83, when ultimately you're working today and you think that what you're doing today is the most relevant. So I think for me, it's not about nostalgia. It's ultimately, in a way, it's showing really what was the pioneering aspect of this period of time where there's a, you know, these are artists, this was sort of the formative moment for them, but they're all working today. And many, most of the things that you're seeing in the gallery space really connect to artists working in the present. But I think one of the joys of the building that we have because it's this Fantastic Beaux Art. From the outside, it looks very sort of difficult to actually even open the heavy door, but once you're in, it's a palace of art. And I think people. We were amazed on Saturday to see this. Literally from the moment we opened at 10 o' clock till 6 o' clock at night, it was packed with people. And to see young people thriving on what we're showing. And I think what Mary said, you know, being physically there, present and seeing the art. And I think one of the things, one of the takeaways that we are so I would say surprised by both the freshness of the work, but also how the work lives together. Because you. What you realize the 80s was not just a simple sort of trajectory from, you know, starting in January 1980 and ending in 1989. It was a legacy of the. Of the 70s. And these were artists that, you know, basically went to college and came to New York in the late 70s and exploded really in the. In the early 80s. So in a way, it's really much about community. And I think that's the one thing which you really sense, because these are artists who are still, as I say, living together or living today. And the show brought them back together in a very meaningful way. And to see actually the camaraderie amongst the artists. Incredible respect, a lot of competition. Still competition.

[Mary Boone]

Still competition, yeah.

[Brett Gorvey]

But it's that sense of community which I think we really feel when you walk through the space.

[Alison Stewart]

We're talking about an exhibition at the Levy Gordon Diane Gallery. It surveys New York's art scene of the 1980s. I'm speaking with co curators Mary Boone and Brett Gorvey. They're discussing downtown uptown New York in the 80s. There is a piece. I know you've spoken about it. I'm going to ask you to speak about it again. It is a Jean Michel Basquiat piece with your name on it.

[Mary Boone]

Mm.

[Alison Stewart]

You're like, uh huh. And it's like a punching bag and it's got his little crown on the top. Why did he write your name on this piece?

[Mary Boone]

Why did he write my name on this piece?

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah.

[Mary Boone]

Well, I don't know. I mean, we could ask him, but it's not gonna happen. Normally the way Jean Michel worked was that people that were important in his life, like Charlie Parker or he wrote their names on paintings. So I was no different. I mean, he actually did a painting of the Mona Lisa. That kind of look was made to look like me. And this piece, you know, the Crown is what he did to kind of Guard you or add safety to you. I think I kind of thought it was about, you know, that he felt that I got picked on. And he joined my gallery the same week that Julian Schnabel, who was a very important artist for me, left my gallery. And I was very upset about it. And I cried for several days. And Jean Michel would come into the gallery and hug me and make sure I was okay. And I kind of think that's what the punching bag is about. That a lot of people pick on me. They give me a hard time. But that he's going to crown me.

[Alison Stewart]

And also that maybe you're tough very much.

[Mary Boone]

I don't know. I don't feel very tough. I feel like I thought you were wimp.

[Alison Stewart]

Maybe he thought you were at the time.

[Mary Boone]

Maybe he saw that in you, maybe. Or maybe he wanted to bring it out because he was really that kind of a person. He liked to bring out the best in people. And I think his bond with. His bond with Andy was very familiar as well.

[Alison Stewart]

The show contrasts the downtown art scene and the uptown Arncyne. Brett, what was the difference between the two?

[Brett Gorvey]

Well, I think downtown was basically where the artists were living, where they were making the work. And it was very much about the street and ultimately the sense of community. But they had aspirations. Their aspirations was uptown, basically. That's where, you know, the, you know, the very established galleries were. That's where ultimately where many of the collectors lived. And Andy Warhol was on 66th Street. So, you know, and Mr. Charles was basically one of their, you know, sort of main gathering points. So the notion of, you know, you'd be working in the studio if you were Jean Michel Basquiat, you were actually on the street finding material literally in the garbage bins. And then basically, by night, you were traveling uptown and ultimately partying and being part of a scene. So the notion, in a way, you know, we are an uptown gallery. And so, in a way, it's a. It's a. It's taking one's hat off at, you know, that incredible creativity that was downtown. But it is, as I said, it's really. It's a story of the city. Because New York was so important really, to these artists, both as a place where they met, where they came to New York for real. You know, there was an optimism of possibility, but that sense of community. Because, you know, in the early period, you know, there wasn't a market. You know, when Mary was down in 77, I mean, what were you doing down in Soho? You were a pioneer yeah.

[Mary Boone]

Yes, she was, I guess. But soon after that, like, Leo started being down there. Sonna Bend. And it kind of grew pretty quickly. I think Paula Cooper was the first person there. I think she was there in 66.

[Alison Stewart]

It's so interesting to hear you talk about, like, oh, Paula Cooper. Oh, Leo Costello. I mean, these are huge galleries.

[Brett Gorvey]

Yeah.

[Mary Boone]

I mean, Leo Castelli and Juliana were amazing.

[Brett Gorvey]

Yeah. That's why I talk about Mary in the same breath, because we're talking about legends, ultimately. These are gallerists who ultimately created what we, what we see today. And I think that's the other thing which is so amazing about the show is Mary's connection to the artists, because the artists, you know, I would not, as a gallerist, normally have the buy in of so many amazing talents, but it's really because of their respect and their love of Mary because she was there for them at the beginning.

[Alison Stewart]

Mary, what is one piece you'd like people to spend an extra 5, 10 seconds in front of that's in the show when they go see it?

[Mary Boone]

You know, I have to tell you, that is impossible to answer because we took a lot of time to try to have everybody represented at their top level. I mean, the Fright wig of Andy's is a groundbreaking work. And the Barbara Kruger, what me worry, that's a piece that, you know, I had lost track of and I'm so happy to see it back again. And, you know, the Jeff Koons vacuum cleaners, I mean, just keep going on.

[Alison Stewart]

I get your point.

[Mary Boone]

Every single piece is a masterpiece. And that has a lot to do with Brett because Brett was relentless about the Basquiat and everything. Sometimes he'd stick me on people, but mostly he, you know, secured these loans and did an incredible job of it. It was just a wonderful experience working with them.

[Brett Gorvey]

But I think that's a very important aspect of the show, is that we've been able to basically bring private material. Most of this comes from private collectors. We didn't go to museums. We really wanted this to be a very personal show. And many of these works have come from people's homes, actually from the bedrooms of collectors. So that intimacy is something you really feel.

[Alison Stewart]

You should go see it at the Levy Gordon Diane Gallery, downtown Uptown New York in the 80s. Thank you so much for being Brett Gorvey and Mary Boone. Thank you so much.

[Mary Boone]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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[Mary Boone]

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[Brett Gorvey]

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[Mary Boone]

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