Podcast Summary: Exploring the Psychology of 'Inside Out 2'

Podcast: All Of It by WNYC
Date: June 17, 2024
Host: Kusha Navadar (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests:

• Dr. Lisa Damour (Consulting Psychologist for Inside Out 2)
• Dave Holstein (Writer, Inside Out 2)

Overview

This episode of All Of It explores the psychological themes and cultural impact of Pixar’s new film, Inside Out 2, focusing on the representation of emotions during adolescence, with a special emphasis on anxiety. Host Kusha Navadar speaks with Dr. Lisa Damour, a clinical psychologist who consulted on the film, and Dave Holstein, one of its writers. Together, they discuss how Inside Out 2 delves into puberty, the role of new and existing emotions, and how the film serves as a meaningful tool for families, teachers, and mental health conversations. Listeners also call in to share their personal and professional perspectives on the film’s portrayal of emotional development.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Film’s Premise and Evolution

[03:35–04:50]

• Inside Out 2 picks up with Riley, now 13, entering high school and facing new emotional challenges, including puberty.
• The mind, not the brain, is the center of action—emotions are personified, acting out Riley’s inner world as she encounters new situations and feelings.
• "[Inside Out is] a metaphysical place where you can watch an 11-year-old girl navigate a big traumatic moment in her life ... and how she learns ... the power of sadness throughout." – Dave Holstein (04:06)

2. Psychological Grounding: The Shift in Adolescence

[05:16–07:09]

• Dr. Damour explains that around age 13–14, the mind’s capacity for abstraction increases. Teens begin to see situations from multiple perspectives, enabling self-conscious emotions like embarrassment, envy, and especially anxiety.
• Emotional intensity increases dramatically during puberty; the film humorously captures this through “the puberty button” at emotion HQ.
• "You put a kid to bed one night ... the next day you wake up and you’ve got a teenager and they are feeling things very, very strongly." – Dr. Lisa Damour (06:20)

3. Realism, Anxiety & Its Role

[07:32–08:34, 13:00–14:25, 16:43–19:09]

• Anxiety is depicted as multifaceted: it’s neither wholly good nor bad, but rather essential for alertness and safety—unless it goes unchecked.
• Dr. Damour and Dr. Dacher Keltner ensured the film’s portrayal of anxiety reflects clinical reality: useful in moderation, problematic in excess.
• "Anxiety is complicated. She’s not all good, she’s not all bad. ... it can get out of control, and it is also an important part of how we keep ourselves safe." – Dr. Lisa Damour (07:54)
• Dave Holstein describes writing anxiety as character: "There’s something about anxiety as an antagonist that you need to live with ... we can’t defeat it. We have to learn how to manage it." (13:31)

4. Family and Educator Perspectives

[09:21–11:38, 14:25–16:14]

• Teachers use Inside Out clips in social-emotional learning, highlighting the film’s educational value and the elevated anxiety seen post-COVID.
• Parents appreciate the film as a tool for conversation with their children and as reassurance regarding adolescent emotional turbulence.
• "My daughters ... resonate with the emotions ... I asked them what I appear to be showing, and they said, anxiety and joy—which I feel is perfect for motherhood." – Nicole, parent caller (10:50)
• The film provides comfort by also showing the mother’s internal emotions—a perspective parents find validating.

5. Gender and Socialization in Anxiety

[16:43–18:59]

• Girls tend to internalize distress (anxiety, depression); boys externalize (acting out).
• Perfectionism and anxiety disorders are more prevalent among girls, often reinforced through social expectations.
• Management tips: Reframe exaggerated fears, focus on coping skills, and encourage expressing and naming emotions.
• "For Pixar to put in front of us these ... personified versions of feelings means that families can talk about feelings in a new way." – Dr. Lisa Damour (18:40)

6. Healthy vs. Unhealthy Anxiety

[19:09–20:03]

• The objective isn’t to eliminate anxiety, but to keep it healthy and proportional.
• Suppressing or avoiding emotions can lead to unhealthy coping (distraction, substance use).
• Unhealthy anxiety is disproportionate or disconnected from real threats.

7. The Creative Process & Comic Relief

[20:03–21:46]

• Writing for Pixar involves continuous iteration, with input from psychologists, parents, and diverse teams.
• Giving emotions names and personified traits helps viewers name and discuss their own feelings.
• The film deliberately focuses on internal, psychological markers of puberty and uses humor to visualize "abstract" mind functions—like sarcasm—in a way only the Inside Out universe can.

8. Resonance with Adults

[22:52–23:52]

• Adults, especially parents, find comfort and reassurance in the film’s depiction of the adolescent journey and their own parallel emotional experiences.
• "It’s very isolating to be the parent of a teenager ... for Pixar to put up on the big screen what we see in so many homes ... is a real service to families." – Dr. Lisa Damour (23:27)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Abstraction & Puberty:
  "Suddenly Riley seems to be overreacting to everything ... they all turn on anger and he’s like, ‘I barely touched it.’ ... It really captures ... family life." – Dr. Lisa Damour (06:10)
• On Anxiety’s Role:
  "It’s a very hard thing in a Pixar movie to create an antagonist that you can defeat. And there’s something about anxiety as an antagonist that you need to live with." – Dave Holstein (13:17)
• Language for Emotions:
  "As soon as you talk about a feeling, the feeling actually comes down to size. As soon as a kid says, 'I feel anxious,' they feel less anxious." – Dr. Lisa Damour (18:50)
• Parents’ Relief:
  "It was a relief as a mom ... they actually have it from the mom's point of view in the movie ... comforting." – Nicole, caller (11:24)
• Process at Pixar:
  "My job is sort of to pluck ideas from that stream of conversation ... and try to make them into scenes ... that make you care and also get it right." – Dave Holstein (20:43)
• Reassurance for Families:
  "A lot of parents are going to feel great reassurance that they're not alone ... your kid is changing, your relationship is changing ... it’s a real service to families." – Dr. Lisa Damour (23:30)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction to Film and Guests: 01:35–03:08
• Explaining the Mind vs. Brain: 04:06
• Puberty, Emotional Intensity, & Abstraction: 05:16–07:09
• Anxiety Characterization and Relevance: 13:00–14:25
• Listener/Caller Educational Perspective: 09:21–10:18
• Parental Perspective on Emotions & Puberty: 10:27–11:38, 14:30–16:14
• Gender & Socialization Differences: 16:43–18:59
• Healthy vs. Unhealthy Anxiety: 19:09
• Pixar Creative Process: 20:33–21:46
• Why Adults Relate: 22:52–23:52
• Closing Remarks: 23:52–24:05

Tone & Language Style

The conversation is accessible, warm, and gently humorous, reflecting both the supportive intent of the guests and the Pixar film itself. Dr. Damour and Dave Holstein are empathetic, candid, and focused on bridging psychological science with relatable storytelling. The exchange welcomes diverse family, educator, and clinical perspectives.

Takeaways

• Inside Out 2 provides families, educators, and clinicians a fun, effective framework for discussing complex emotions, especially during puberty.
• Anxiety, while sometimes overwhelming, is a natural, manageable, and often helpful part of life.
• The film and this discussion offer vital reassurance: intense feelings and emotional change are normal parts of adolescence (and parenthood!), not crises in themselves.
• Giving emotions names and stories—“externalizing the internal”—makes them less intimidating and more manageable for everyone.

Listeners are encouraged to use the language and concepts from the film to foster open emotional conversations in their own homes, classrooms, and communities.