Podcast Summary

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)

Episode: Exploring the Unique Relationship Between Twins

Date: November 21, 2023

Host: Alison Stewart

Guest: Helena DeBres, Author & Philosophy Professor, Wellesley College

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart interviews Helena DeBres, a Wellesley philosophy professor and identical twin, about her new book, "How to Be Multiple: The Philosophy of Twins." The conversation delves into cultural and philosophical questions surrounding twinhood—identity, individuality, relationships, and societal perceptions. Through personal anecdotes, callers’ stories, and philosophical reflection, the episode challenges common stereotypes and explores the unique experiences and insights twins bring to broader questions about what it means to be a person.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Philosophical Lens on Twinhood

• Helena DeBres discusses combining her professional and personal perspectives as a philosopher and an identical twin (02:20).
• She explains that questions twins frequently receive ("Which one are you?", "How many of you are there?", "Are you two in love?") are deeply philosophical and relate to issues of identity, love, and free will.

"Twins vividly breach some of the central physical, cognitive and emotional boundaries we assume hold between individual people. Thinking about their case can help us think about the more general human case with far reaching implications."—Helena DeBres (quoted by Alison Stewart) [00:16]

2. Terminology: “Single Egg” vs. “Different Egg” Twins

• Helena prefers using “single egg” (identical) and “different egg” (fraternal) to clarify distinctions and reduce misconceptions.

"People will often ask, are you identical? You'll say, yes. And then they'll look like they're being cheated... So you can avoid that whole thing by just calling yourself a single egg twin."—Helena DeBres [03:49]

3. Twin Relationships: Unity, Difference, and Societal Anxiety

• Helena and her twin, Julia, have always been close, but she notes not all twinships are the same.
• Society oscillates between idealizing twinship (as perfect harmony) and pathologizing it (as unhealthy or intense).

"I think those two images... don’t reflect twinship itself, but singleton attitudes to twinship. There’s something unusual, sort of deviant and alarming about our relationship at the same time as it being appealing." —Helena DeBres [06:27]

4. Nature, Nurture, and Individuality

• Parent callers discuss efforts to foster individual identities among twins.

"We have to remind people a lot that they are two individuals and they do have...different feelings, different emotions, do have different experiences in life as everybody does."—Andrew (parent caller) [08:07]

• Some parents consciously withhold birth order to avoid dominance/submission dynamics.

"They don’t know who’s born first and who’s born last...they switch the roles...just based on what day it is."—Dee (parent caller) [09:46]

• Helena critiques the impulse to differentiate twins, arguing that similarity among twins doesn’t negate individuality, and society’s discomfort with sameness is ideologically charged.

"Twins are meant to be very similar. People are sort of disappointed—we're sort of failed twins if we're not similar enough. But there's also a lot of pressure...to differentiate."—Helena DeBres [08:41]

5. Conjoined Twins & The Boundaries of Personhood

• The discussion around conjoined twins reveals assumptions about the one-body-one-person model.

"One of the trippy things about conjoined twins is that they violate that assumption...Thinking about that case started getting me thinking about whether we could also say that a single person could be spread across two bodies."—Helena DeBres [12:51]

6. Gender & Twin Experience

• No single twin experience exists—gender is less significant than commonly thought. Each twinship is unique.

"I'm inclined to think that gender isn't going to be the most significant dividing line or at least there's going to be a diversity of experiences between different sex and same sex twins."—Helena DeBres [13:59]

7. Media Perceptions, Tropes, and Stereotypes

• Common tropes (e.g., the evil twin, opposite personalities) reflect singleton anxieties and the tendency to homogenize minorities.

"There’s a tendency for the larger group to homogenize the smaller group. They're different by contrast to the majority and so their difference seems the most dominant thing."—Helena DeBres [14:53]

8. Callers’ Stories: Twin Life in Practice

• Diane (senior citizen twin): Shared experiences spanning a double wedding to traveling together in widowhood. [05:10]
• Margaret (81-year-old identical twin): Reflects on a childhood among three sets of twins. [15:34]
• Sheila (mother and grandmother of twins): Success as a parent is observed in adult siblings who are close, and the challenge of intrusive public questions. [18:31]
• Marilyn (identical twin and mother-in-law to another twin): Inter-generational experiences of "the twin thing." [21:18]
• Robbie (identical twin artist): He and his brother deliberately chose different paths to avoid competition (artist vs. rocket scientist). [29:26]

9. Intrusiveness, Objectification, and "Twinters" (Twin Intersectionality)

• Helena draws a parallel between the objectification of twins and that experienced by (especially young) women—public attention, intrusive questions, and being reduced to "sameness."

"There’s a similar kind of objectification of twins and women...an obsessive focus on their similarities, and a tendency to ask these invasive questions."—Helena DeBres [20:16]

10. Innate Connection and “Twin Languages”

• Some twins remember early connection or develop unique forms of communication. Helena is skeptical but open to the idea of special "twin intuition."

"I haven't had any experiences...of telepathic communication with her [Julia] that she claims she's had some in relation to me."—Helena DeBres [23:24]

11. Free Will, Social Sorting, and Binarization

• Society tends to cast twins as binary opposites (good/evil, outgoing/shy), which shapes self-perception.

"Often in stories of twins, they're binarized...We have this tendency to either treat twins as exactly similar or to treat them as binary opposites."—Helena DeBres [27:03]

• The discussion touches on whether twins’ differences are inherent or the result of deliberate individuation.
• Helena challenges the notion that closeness between twins is pathological or an obstacle to developing proper individual identities.

"You can be deeply, intimately attached to someone else, define your identity partly in relation to them, and still be a fully fledged, functional, mentally healthy person. It's a lesson I think we need to learn."—Helena DeBres [28:18]

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• "Twins vividly breach some of the central physical, cognitive and emotional boundaries we assume hold between individual people." — Helena DeBres (quoted) [00:16]
• "People will often ask, are you identical? You'll say, yes. And then they'll look like they're being cheated... So you can avoid that whole thing by just calling yourself a single egg twin."—Helena DeBres [03:49]
• "My husband was never a serious competition for Julia, and none of her romantic partners were ever serious competition for me."—Helena DeBres [05:48]
• "Twins are meant to be very similar... But there's also a lot of pressure... to differentiate."—Helena DeBres [08:41]
• "The dominant twin shoves out the first one as a kind of scout...There's different ways of understanding it." —Helena DeBres on birth order [10:47]
• "One of the trippy things about conjoined twins is that they violate that assumption...Thinking about that case started getting me thinking about whether we could also say that a single person could be spread across two bodies."—Helena DeBres [12:51]
• "There's a tendency for the larger group to homogenize the smaller group... their difference seems the most dominant thing."—Helena DeBres [14:53]
• "There's a similar kind of objectification of twins and women...a tendency to ask these invasive questions."—Helena DeBres [20:16]
• "You can be deeply, intimately attached to someone else, define your identity partly in relation to them, and still be a fully fledged, functional, mentally healthy person."—Helena DeBres [28:18]
• "We chose not to compete."—Robbie (identical twin artist) [29:37]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:16] Introduction of Helena DeBres and her book
• [02:20] Why philosophy is suited to exploring twinhood
• [03:49] Clarifying "identical" and "fraternal," and personal terminology
• [05:10] Call: Diane shares her experience as a senior twin
• [06:27] Twins and romantic relationships
• [08:07] Andrew (parent) on individuality among identical twins
• [09:46] Dee (parent) on managing birth order and identity in fraternal twins
• [12:51] The uniqueness of conjoined twins and philosophical implications for personhood
• [14:53] Media tropes, minority/majority perspectives, and stereotyping
• [18:31] Sheila (mother/grandmother of twins) on identity, public perception, and parenting
• [20:16] Objectification of twins, parallels to women's experiences
• [21:18] Marilyn (identical twin + mother-in-law of a twin) on passing down “the twin thing”
• [23:24] Innate connections, "twin talk," and Helena's experiences
• [24:40] Story about simultaneous eye rashes as a thought prompt about destiny and biology
• [27:03] Free will, individuality, and twin binarization
• [28:18] Challenging the idea that closeness impedes individuation
• [29:26] Robbie, an artist, and his identical twin at NASA choosing non-competing paths

Conclusion

This episode combines philosophy, memoir, and community voices to explore deeply-rooted questions about what it means to be a twin, how society views twins, and the implications for personal identity, individuality, and connectedness. Helena DeBres and a diverse set of callers illustrate that there is no universal twin experience—only a myriad of fascinating, instructive variations that challenge conventional thinking about sameness, difference, and the boundaries of the self.