All Of It — “Femme,” A Queer Thriller on Betrayal and Desire
WNYC, March 20, 2024
Host: Tiffany Hansen (in for Alison Stewart)
Guests: Sam Freeman (co-director, "Femme") & Nathan Stewart-Jarrett (actor, “Jules”)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the new film "Femme," a queer thriller that subverts the revenge genre by confronting issues of betrayal, desire, gender, and identity through the lens of its complex protagonists. Host Tiffany Hansen speaks with co-director Sam Freeman and lead actor Nathan Stewart-Jarrett about the origins of the film, its thematic ambitions, the process of playing and writing complicated characters, and the film's significance in the queer cinematic landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin and Genre Subversion

[02:35–04:21]

• The film began as a feature idea, inspired by neo-noir thrillers and a desire to see queer characters centered in a typically hyper-masculine genre.
• Freeman describes the intent as “flipping” traditional thriller tropes, saying:

  “As queer artists…these films are filled with a very particular kind of sort of hyper masculinity… queer characters sort of don’t center in them. If they are, they’re often to the side or for comic relief.” (Sam Freeman, 03:07)

• The filmmakers made a short film first to prove their directorial abilities, during which they uncovered the nuanced relationship between Jules and Preston—each struggling with masculinity and sexuality.

2. Attraction to the Project & Complexity of Roles

[04:21–05:32]

• Stewart-Jarrett on embracing the role of Jules:

  “It was really the script...so economic, so tight and classical...playing Jules is basically playing four different characters. As an actor, it’s an absolute gift.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 04:44)

• He praises the script’s richness and opportunity to portray layered, dynamic characters.

3. Challenging Moral Binaries

[05:32–09:16]

• Freeman and Stewart-Jarrett delve into refusing simple “good guy vs. bad guy” narratives:

  • Freeman:

    “We weren’t interested in making...here’s a good guy, here’s a bad guy. The film is not interested in binaries in any sense.” (Sam Freeman, 06:01)

  • Both agree the revenge thriller often plays to binaries, but "Femme" resists this, leaving questions for the audience.
  • Stewart-Jarrett:

    “You pose those questions...the film is amazing...because it poses questions and it doesn’t answer any. That’s what makes it really powerful, I think.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 07:09)

• Freeman adds:

  “I think all the best stories ask questions rather than making statements of like, 'this is what the world is.'” (Sam Freeman, 07:49)

4. Ambiguity & Audience Engagement

[08:50–09:53]

• Nathan appreciates the film’s ambiguity, giving the audience room to interpret:

  “Audiences are so, so smart...just feeding them things is not always a good idea. I love ambiguity.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 08:50)

5. The Nature of the Central Relationship

[09:16–11:33]

• The host asks if Jules and Preston’s relationship is "love/hate":
  • Stewart-Jarrett considers it a “twisted love story,” complicated by Jules’ compromised feelings toward Preston.
• Freeman describes the relationship’s arc, touching on the impact of drag:

  “Jules is stripped of that drag by Preston at the beginning. A lot of Jules’ power, personal power...is with that drag; it’s where he found his identity.” (Sam Freeman, 10:40)

6. Drag as Identity and Plot Device

[11:33–14:21]

• Drag serves both as a thematic anchor and a narrative device:
  • Freeman:

    “Drag really, at its core, is a performance of identity and of gender... the film is about how we perform ourselves and how we choose performances that give us safety, that give us power. And what happens when those performances are stripped from us?” (Sam Freeman, 11:57)

  • He references RuPaul:

    “We’re all born naked and the rest is drag.” (Sam Freeman, 12:31)

  • Stewart-Jarrett links it to Shakespeare’s “All the world’s a stage.”
  • The drag element is also key in the plot: Preston fails to recognize Jules out of drag, a device Freeman calls “quite Shakespearean.” (Sam Freeman, 14:07)

7. Jules’ Empowerment and Vulnerability

[13:19–15:46]

• Stewart-Jarrett reflects on embodying Jules/Aphrodite:

  “Drag is an expression of someone’s interior...Aphrodite is Jules at his most empowered...gives Jules license and a voice.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 13:19)

  • He discusses the pain of losing that empowerment after the attack.

8. Chosen Family in Queer Lives

[15:35–17:33]

• Stewart-Jarrett speaks to the importance of chosen family:

  “Oftentimes...kids that have run away from home...choose their family out of necessity, choose who will love, who accept them, who will take care of them. And it’s incredibly important, as I think it is to Jules.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 16:58)

9. Expanding Queer Cinema

[17:33–18:26]

• Freeman hopes the film helps expand representation in queer film:

  “Queer thrillers have been something that we haven’t seen a lot of...sometimes we feel that we’re sort of kept within a box. It’s an exciting time to expand the kind of stories that we are allowed to tell.” (Sam Freeman, 17:42)

• Stewart-Jarrett adds recent films to this expanding canon: “Rotting in the Sun—it’s amazing.” (Nathan Stewart-Jarrett, 18:23)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Genre Subversion:

  “We weren’t interested in making a...black and white, overly moralistic movie. We wanted to put two very human characters on the screen in a really sort of murky, difficult situation and explore what happens.”
  — Sam Freeman (06:01)

• On Ambiguity:

  “I love ambiguity...the audience actually does some work, and audiences are so, so smart.”
  — Nathan Stewart-Jarrett (08:50)

• On Drag and Identity:

  “Jules is stripped of that drag by Preston at the beginning. A lot of Jules’ power, personal power...is with that drag; it’s where he found his identity.”
  — Sam Freeman (10:40)

• On Chosen Family:

  “They choose their family out of necessity, choose who will love, who accept them, who will take care of them.”
  — Nathan Stewart-Jarrett (16:58)

Key Timestamps

• [01:19] — Intro to the film and guest introductions
• [02:35] — Film’s origin and genre inspiration
• [04:21] — Nathan Stewart-Jarrett on the appeal of the role
• [06:01] — Writing morally ambiguous characters
• [07:49] — The value of posing questions, not answers, in storytelling
• [11:33] — Drag’s significance in narrative and character
• [13:19] — Jules/Aphrodite’s empowerment and crisis
• [15:35] — Chosen family’s role in the film (and reality)
• [17:33] — The film’s contribution to queer cinema

Tone and Takeaways

The discussion is thoughtful yet energetic, marked by deep respect between the host and guests. Both Freeman and Stewart-Jarrett emphasize the film’s refusal to reduce queer characters to archetypes, instead opting for ambiguity, nuance, and a challenge to audience expectations. "Femme" expands the representation of queer experience in genre cinema and invites viewers to grapple with uncomfortable, complicated questions about revenge, identity, and desire—while celebrating queer resilience and chosen family.

Final note:
Fans of thrillers, queer cinema, and character-driven storytelling will find this conversation insightful, as it reveals the filmmakers’ intentions to challenge conventions, center marginalized experiences, and trust the audience’s intelligence.