WNYC Host/Interviewer (4:16)

It's so interesting in the book, there are beautifully shot pictures, portraits, and then there are sort of moments you capture in time that people don't necessarily know you're there when you're taking their picture. When do you decide to reach out to someone? Say, I want to take your portrait. And when do you decide, I'm just going to capture that moment? Nobody knows I'm taking a picture. I'm just going to take a picture of this special moment.

Jamel Shabazz (4:40)

It's really hard to say. You know, one of the things that I. That I look for in the part was a theme that I've been focused on for pretty much most of my career. And that's love and joy. And when I see people that love each other, when I see innocence and joy and inner peace, my mind is directed towards that, not only to photograph them, but to also to engage them. Like with the COVID of the book, I had just entered the park on the Parkside street side, and when I walked in, I saw that couple on the tree, and I knew that was a very important photograph to document. And in my approach, it's always about engagement whenever possible. And I let the subjects know that this is a very important photograph that's going to mean so much. As time goes on, would you allow me to freeze this moment in time? And. And so that's a very important process of mine, to see individuals that love each other, to see families, and just to document them. Of course, it gives me a sense of hope at the same time, and there's other situations where you might see people running or riding their bicycles, where it doesn't really warrant you to engage them. It's just a moment of just capturing that moment, and that's it. But for me personally, I believe in engagement. I really believe that everybody I meet in life I meet for a reason. And if I take a moment of pause to engage you in conversation, and I might find out why we met, and I want to embrace you and shake your hand and get your contact information and send that photograph to you. So, again, the foundation of my work is rooted in love and the human connection.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (6:02)

Listeners, especially those in Brooklyn, as we discuss Jamel Shabazz's Prospect park photography, we want to know from you, where's your favorite place in Prospect Park? Give us a call at 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. And for those of you who want to see pictures of Jamel's, we're going to put up on our Instagram. It's all of it. Wnyc. Check out the stories in just a few minutes. When you were a little kid, what were your memories of Prospect park like?

Jamel Shabazz (6:34)

I think what I remember most is just the intimate moments I had with my aunt and my two cousins. And she would pick us up from Captain School on a Friday and bring us there. And it meant everything. I lived about 15 minutes away in the Red Hook section of Brooklyn, so it would be either a short bus ride or a train ride, and we would be there. And it's just to smell, you know, the smell, nature, the beautiful scents. To hear the birds singing, you know, to look at the lake. And it's just. It was a sense of freedom and it just felt good. Especially, you know, enduring five days of Catholic school and then living in the projects, you know, to go to Prosper park was just a great feeling. It's Just freedom and independence, and that's what I remember the most. Those are some of my most fondest memories of my life because it gave me exposure to a world outside my community. Many cases I've only seen in photography books. So here I have this oasis right in the heart of Brooklyn that I'm 15 minutes away from, and I can go and feel a sense of relief. And again, like, as the years went on, I needed a place to go to decompress. Having gone to captive school, I needed a place, a place to decompress from. From just the strenuous learning that I had to endure, you know, during those five days.

Alison Stewart (7:41)

You use the word decompress a lot when you describe Prospect Park.

Jamel Shabazz (7:45)

Yes.

Alison Stewart (7:46)

What were you trying to work through?

Jamel Shabazz (7:49)

Trying to understand the world around me. You know, I was born in 1960, so I was a very visual person. So growing up during the time of the Vietnam War and the civil rights movement, I took a lot of that in. You know, I was one that always read Life magazine and National Geographic. So I was seeing things that my parents weren't aware of, what I was witnessing. And I never got answers to it. Even in Catholic school, nobody explained to me the wars that were going on in the world at that time. And I was taking in all of this stuff. I mean, I was looking at some very extreme, extremely violent images. So as a young boy, I'm trying to make sense of the world around me, and I needed a moment of pause where I could just think about it, you know, and pretty much throughout my life, I've witnessed a lot of trauma, you know. You know, being a visual person, this has been going on throughout my life. I've witnessed so many wars, suffering, misery. I needed to try to better understand it and find humanity at the same time. And then when I worked in the. The jail system, I was witnessing a lot of things, you know, I was there for. Really. Let me rewind back a little bit. When I came home from the army, the AIDS epidemic had hit, and there's a lot of death and uncertainty around me. And then a few years later, the crack epidemic hit. And now I'm looking at the destruction of my community. And it was devastating me, and I needed a moment of pause to try to make sense of it so I could persevere and to continue to be a sense of light in the street. Because not only was I a photographer, I was trying to be a healer. I was first trying to heal myself, but I was trying to heal a lot of the young men, in particular around Me who were dealing with this situation even greater level, you know, because I came onto a world of violence where a lot of young men were dying at the hands of other young men. And I was forced into position now to be an elder, a big brother, to try to end the violence. So, you know, in trying to bring about peace, which I did a lot of times, I needed a place to go to. To think about what I. What I just had witnessed and to re. Strengthen myself, to go back and to continue the work that needed to be done. So Prospect park was that place where I was always able to process what I've experienced, because if I didn't have that place, it would build up in me. So I was able to process it, understand it, write about it, document it, and move on to continue the next mission.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (10:01)

I'm speaking with photographer Jamel Shabazz. He has a new book out called Proskit Prospect Park Photographs of a Brooklyn Oasis, 1980-2025, featuring his photos over the years of Prospect Park. We're also hearing for you, what's your favorite place in Prospect Park? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC. Jamel, let me read you a couple of texts. We have here. This says the doggie pond. So relaxing to see the dogs play. The park moves me to tears so much. Conn.

Alison Stewart (10:37)

Beautiful.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (10:38)

This one also says, hi. I used to watch my friends do bike racing in Prospect park early in the morning. Did you ever photograph those races? Looking forward to seeing the book. That's a reader from Westchester.

Jamel Shabazz (10:50)

Okay, Very good. Wow. Excellent. You know, I appreciate all of that, you know, because I went, I love the dogs. I love nature. So it was always. That's a major part of my book. People and their pets. And I know that's important. As time goes on, the dogs transition. So those photo reps mean everything to the owner of the bike racing. My brother was an avid bike racer, so I've never really documented them racing. I regret it, but I always was fascinated behind that. And I once had my bike and I rode a lot. So the bikers. I have photographed a lot of the iconic bike races, you know, imposed images, but I never really caught them. Maybe one image in my contact sheet, you will see that.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (11:26)

Well, it's interesting you sat down to look at your archive during COVID Yes. What did you realize about your photographs, looking at them in moss like that?

Jamel Shabazz (11:37)

I realized that I followed my father's advice because one of the things he told me when I first started out to carry your camera everywhere you go and document your journey. I was amazed with how much of my life I had documented, how rich it was. And it just blew me away to know that I am without memory because I documented so much of my journey throughout the many years. And it made me feel good. It was really healing for me because when Covid hit, there was a lot of uncertainty and people weren't going out as much as you didn't have to. So I stayed home. And in looking at my negatives, particularly from Prospect Park, I was able to go to the park. I was able to relieve relive a frozen moment in time. And it brought me so much joy, where I would spend a minimum of eight hours in my studio just looking at negatives. And it just made my heart smile to know that I documented so much of my life. I had a saying back in the early days, I used to tell a lot of people, I would photograph that. It may not make sense now, but it's going to make sense in later. And when Covid hit, that became a reality because I stayed home for about six months, just going through my archive, developing my work into themes, and it made me feel so good. I was able to revisit all the places, not only Prospect park, but Central Park, Coney island, and all these different spaces that meant the world to me.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (12:50)

For anybody like to see more of Jamel Shabazz's photos, you can go to our Instagram stories at all of it wnyc. We're getting some good calls in. Let's talk to Desmond, who's calling in from Crown Heights. Hi, Desmond. Thank you for taking the time to call. All of it.

Desmond (Caller) (13:04)

Well, thank you for offering up this young man and allowing him to give his testimony. I just want to say that I'm about approximately 10 years his senior, but I spent a lot of time in Prospect Park. At one phase of my life, I would go in the park and I would do 10, which is 10 laps of the park, which meant that I was doing 33 miles there. But the one thing about the park, and he's right about it decompressing. And a lot of people don't understand that. It's a green space. You spend all your time on asphalt, around buildings. And Crown Heights used to be. Brooklyn, used to be a place where all the buildings were at most four stories tall. And as far as I'm concerned, it's being corrupted with a lot of skyscrapers, a lot of glass. But the one thing that you could always Count on was that green space and the fact that it is so congested now and the borough is becoming so much more populace. People who would never want to come to just like, what was that. That show about the three girlfriends, the four girlfriends. They would talk about Brooklyn. Like, you were big.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (14:09)

You were basically living like girls. I like girls. He was talking about that TV show. Thank you so much for calling in. Desmond, let's talk. Yeah, Drew, let's talk to you. Drew is calling in from Brooklyn. Hey, Drew, thanks for calling, all of it.

Drew (Caller) (14:23)

Sure.

Drew (Caller, continuation) (14:23)

Thank you. Yes. So one of my favorite places in Prospect park is the boathouse. I actually grew up close to Prospect park and a lot of childhood memories in the snow and definitely going to the boathouse. And when I started working in the 90s, I was able to rent the boathouse for $100 for the day and have barbecue parties there, and it was so beautiful. So that's definitely one thing that comes to mind when I think about Prospect Park.

Alison Stewart (14:52)

Thank you, Drew, for calling as well. What have you noticed about how Prospect park has changed since the 1980s?

Jamel Shabazz (15:01)

I said the biggest change that I noticed is just the diversity of people that come from around the world. In the early days, it was pretty much, you know, the side that I stayed on. It's pretty much the African American community. But as time progressed, I noticed some of the early people I documented actually were Cambodians and Vietnamese boat people that came into America after the war in Vietnam. And I started to see a change as time would progress. I would start seeing a lot of people from Eastern Europe, many who would live in the Ditmas section of Brooklyn and just range. And as time went on, even more people from Bangladesh. So what I noticed was the diversity of different cultures that came. And they also looked at the park as a place of solace where they could just have inner peace. And I noticed the culture from the different styles that they had in the customs. So those are some of the greatest changes that I've noticed is just people coming from different countries, you know, and how they found Prosper park to be just an important place to just kind of like, embrace nature and get away from the concrete.

Alison Stewart (15:57)

Let's talk to Patrick from Brooklyn. Hey, Patrick, thanks for making the time to call all of it.

Patrick (Caller) (16:03)

Hey, Allison. So, so good to hear you. Thank you for this. This segment. Peace, brother Jamel.

Jamel Shabazz (16:10)

Peace.

Patrick (Caller) (16:10)

I call Jamel our. Our visual griot. He's a storyteller. He's the preserver of our culture and visual preserver of our culture. So important. Thank you and Prospect Park. As someone that was born and raised in Brooklyn, it was a place of so many firsts for me. First time I ever saw any exotic animals was at the zoo, Prospect Park Zoo. First time I was ever out on water was, you know, getting a paddle boat. One of my first dates, and taking my date out on the paddleboat. I thought I was big time.

Jamel Shabazz (16:51)

I identify with everything you're saying. I could appreciate my dad, you say all the time.

Alison Stewart (16:56)

That was big time, man. If someone were interested in getting involved in street photography, what advice would you give them?

Jamel Shabazz (17:05)

I think the best advice I can give you is learn the craft. You know, learn the basics. Digital photography is one thing, but, you know, learn the foundation of photography, analog photography. Study the grace, you know, answer Adams, Gordon, Parks, James, Vanity. I mean, so many, but study photographers, but learn the craft. My father told me, carry your camera everywhere you go. Have it out, have it set, and be observant. And I think those are some of the keys when you carry your camera. You'd be the surprise of things that you see when you have your camera out and you just start to look around and to be respectful of the people that you document. But, you know, again, it's important to study the great so you can just develop your vision. And as time goes on, you know, in. In studying the work of other people, you will start to create your own vision.

Alison Stewart (17:49)

This text says it's a little bit long, but it's worth it. When my grandmother died in 2018, we chose to dedicate a bench to her in Prospect Park. As she grew up in Brooklyn and looked back on her childhood with joy or walking around the lake in the dead of winter. I found out the way. A way spot near the skating rink behind the World War I memorial, and I never visited. It was quiet and somewhat secluded, but you could hear happy kids voices wafting over from the rink, which she would have loved. I don't have a grave where I can go visit her, but going to that spot makes me feel like she's with me.

Jamel Shabazz (18:29)

Wow, that's beautiful.

Alison Stewart (18:30)

Do you have a favorite place in the park that you like?

Jamel Shabazz (18:33)

I have a lot of them, but the place that has really helped me over the many years get through some very dark times has been Drummers Grove during the summer months. You know, that's a very special place for me because what I love about that is the unity of artists and creators and how they come together collectively, you know, and they, you know, they play these ancestral instruments and it's very spiritual for me. To see. And what I find so fascinating about it, how people could just come with an instrument. It could even be a. A bottle, and you take a rock and you make a sound. It could be you dancing in. In a circle. But that's a very special place for me. It's extremely spiritual. A lot of relationships have been born out of those experiences and friendships. So that's like my number one spot. And then it's around the lake. You know, I love the fact that I could just go and just kind of like just sit by a tree and just meditate. So the whole range, you know, the. The wide. The whole radius of the lake itself, I walk it quite often and just reflect. So that's my second. You know, that's my. I could say that's number one because that's all year round. But the summer months is definitely Drama Grove. And. And that whole experience of just listening to the drums and the various instruments has been very instrumental in helping me throughout my life because there's something spiritual about that space. And I leave there feeling so reinvigorated, you know, during those summer months.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (19:51)

I think we've got time for one more call. Let's talk to David, who's calling in from Princeton, New Jersey. David, you're on the air.

Drew (Caller) (19:59)

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. So when I was a kid in the late 1950s, we lived in Brownsville in Brooklyn, and my dad took me to Prospect park in the dead of winter when it was really deep snow. I think it was a blizzard, and. And he climbed onto the sled with me. I don't know where in the park. This very steep double hill. It was like you go down and then flat for a little bit and down some more. It was spectacular. And we did it again and again. And then he had a thermos of hot cocoa with marshmallow and that. It was just a marvelous memory of that park.

WNYC Host/Interviewer (20:39)

Sounds like a really wonderful day. You know, so many people go to the park, Jamal, either for their craft, to take photos, or they just want to take pictures with their Instagram. What's your message to young people? How to get the most out of taking pictures in public spaces.

Jamel Shabazz (20:54)

Again, it's to have your instrument with you all the time and just be observant. You know, walk around and look for the beauty, you know, look for the good, look for the best of humanity. You can't go wrong with that when you have that type of theme. And you're looking for joy, you're looking for love, you're looking for hope. Friendship. Keep that in mind. You know, it's good to have themes in the forefront of your mind because it makes the process easier, you know, and I know for me personally, you know, when I think about joy and I'm actually looking for it, I find it's all around me. So it's good to have a clear vision of what it is you want and just be ready. You know, just keep, keep camera with you and engage people. Because if, you know, for me, the camera is a compass that puts me on a path that has allowed me to meet so many amazing people throughout my life. I'm in conversations with people I met in Prospect park back in the 80s today, and based off that brief encounter of me engaging and giving them my business card, we have established friendships. So, you know, go out there with an open mind and just go with the flow and embrace it.

Alison Stewart (21:53)

I've been speaking with photographer Jamel Shabazz. He has a new book out called Prospect Park Photographs From a Brooklyn Oasis 1980-2025. It was a pleasure talking with you.

Jamel Shabazz (22:06)

And likewise, thank you so much for having me. And I thank all the listeners for tuning in.

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