Podcast Summary: "Flavors And Recipes As A Gateway To The Past"

Podcast Title: All Of It
Host: Alison Stewart
Episode Title: Flavors And Recipes As A Gateway To The Past
Release Date: April 17, 2025
Produced by: WNYC Studios

Introduction

In this episode of All Of It, hosted by Alison Stewart, the focus shifts to the intersection of food and history through the engaging platform of YouTube personality and food history enthusiast, Max Miller. Max, known for his channel Tasting History, explores how culinary practices offer a tangible connection to past cultures and societies.

Tasting History with Max Miller

[02:22] Alison Stewart:
"So you describe this channel as being about history first, food second. Why did you first want to look at history through the lens of food?"

[02:31] Max Miller:
Max explains his lifelong passion for history, which naturally led him to cooking and baking. Inspired by segments from the early seasons of The Great British Bake Off that delved into the history behind recipes, Max created Tasting History to make historical lessons more accessible and engaging through the universal language of food.

Choosing Historical Subjects

[03:12] Alison Stewart:
"You have different ways into the story. Sometimes it's something very specific like what they served in first class on Titanic, or perhaps it might be the oldest recipe on record. How do you go about choosing historical subjects to explore?"

[03:31] Max Miller:
Max emphasizes that his choices are story-driven. He seeks out intriguing historical narratives that can be complemented by a relevant recipe, whether the focus remains on the food itself or extends to broader historical events, such as the differing experiences of Titanic passengers during its sinking.

Engaging with History Through the Senses

[04:19] Caller:
"History by engaging our other senses, like their sense of smell, our sense of taste."

[04:26] Max Miller:
Max highlights that experiencing historical food offers an immediate, sensory connection to the past, making history more tangible and relatable compared to abstract concepts.

Challenges in Recreating Historical Recipes

[06:24] Alison Stewart:
"What are some of the challenges or eccentricities in recipes that make it hard for you to decipher? How am I going to do this?"

[06:24] Max Miller:
Max discusses the difficulties in sourcing extinct or unavailable ingredients, such as silphium from ancient Rome, and navigating ambiguous historical measurements. He mentions substitutes like asafetida (Hing) for silphium and the complexities of translating measurements from old cookbooks, which often lack standardization.

Notable Quote:
"Immediacy is one of the only ways that we can really connect with people from the past." — Max Miller [04:26]

Simnel Cake and Easter Traditions

[09:29] Alison Stewart:
"Let's talk Easter. We're approaching Easter in an episode about an Easter cake which is called. How do you say it? Simnel."

[09:37] Max Miller:
Max delves into the history of simnel cake, exploring various origin stories—from its name derived from the Occitan word for flower to Victorian-era myths involving fictional baker couples. He explains its association with Easter as a celebration of the end of Lent, a period of dietary restrictions.

Notable Quote:
"If there is a wonderfully crafted origin story where there's a lot of specific information... it's probably not true because typically people did not write down when they create a dish." — Max Miller [09:56]

Ancient Desserts: Mersu

[14:15] Caller:
"You have a dessert you called the History History's oldest dessert, Mersu. Am I pronouncing it correctly?"

[14:30] Max Miller:
Max explains that Mersu is traced back to ancient Mesopotamia, based on records from the palace of Mari. While the exact nature of Mersu remains unclear, it likely involved sweet fillings like dates and pistachios. Interestingly, modern desserts in the region bear resemblance to these ancient recipes, highlighting the longevity of certain culinary traditions.

Notable Quote:
"Nothing has changed... they had the same desires, wants, hang ups." — Max Miller [14:47]

Converting Historical Measurements

[17:44] Alison Stewart:
"The White House cookbook with some odd measurements. I know that you have methods for converting measurements across time. What kinds of tools or references do you use to approach the conversions?"

[18:02] Max Miller:
Max discusses the complexities of converting historical measurements, noting that units like "teacups" and "wine glasses" varied significantly across regions and time periods. He utilizes historical conversion charts and resources from the late 19th and early 20th centuries, acknowledging the inconsistencies even then. This meticulous work is crucial, especially for baking, where accurate measurements are essential.

Notable Quote:
"The standardization of measurements is something we take for granted now. But it is relatively new, and it does make things difficult." — Max Miller [18:02]

Evolution of the Girl Scout Cookie

[21:11] Caller:
"You had an episode that talked about the history of the Girl Scout cookie, and it talked about the basic sugar cookie. How is it different from what we expect from Girl Scout cookies today?"

[21:23] Max Miller:
Max explains that the original Girl Scout cookies were simple sugar cookies baked by Scouts at home or rented kitchens, differing from today's commercially produced varieties like Samoas and Thin Mints. While the fundamental recipes remain similar, the shift to professional kitchens changed the production dynamics.

Notable Quote:
"The main difference was who was making the cookie and the cost." — Max Miller [21:23]

Experiencing Historical Recipes: Successes and Surprises

[22:33] Caller:
"Do you ever get any surprises? Perhaps you don't like it that much?"

[22:45] Max Miller:
Max candidly shares that not all historical recipes turn out delicious. His primary goal is authenticity and historical accuracy, not necessarily taste. Examples include an ancient Roman jellyfish dish called patina and boiled leather used for survival, both of which he personally found unappetizing.

Notable Quote:
"If it's delicious, great. If it's not, it's not my recipe. I don't care." — Max Miller [22:45]

Conclusion

Alison Stewart wraps up the episode by appreciating Max Miller's dedication to making history accessible and engaging through food. Max's work on Tasting History not only brings ancient recipes to modern kitchens but also illuminates the cultural and societal contexts in which these dishes were created.

[24:21] Caller:
"We've been talking with Max Miller. Max, thanks for making the time today."

[24:33] Max Miller:
"It was my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me."

Key Takeaways

• Max Miller's Approach: Combines a passion for history with culinary exploration to create engaging content that connects modern audiences with the past.
• Historical Recipes: Recreating ancient dishes offers sensory connections to history but comes with challenges like sourcing extinct ingredients and interpreting old measurements.
• Cultural Insights: Food serves as a lens to understand broader historical narratives, societal norms, and cultural practices.
• Authenticity vs. Taste: The primary focus is on historical accuracy, even if the resulting dish isn't always palatable.

This episode of All Of It provides a rich exploration of how food can serve as a gateway to understanding history, emphasizing the importance of sensory experiences in connecting with the past. Max Miller's insights offer both educational value and culinary inspiration for history enthusiasts and food lovers alike.