FUTURA2000's Homecoming Retrospective at The Bronx Museum

Summary

All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: FUTURA2000's Homecoming Retrospective at The Bronx Museum
Aired: September 10, 2024

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Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" on WNYC, hosted by Alison Stewart, features a vibrant and deeply personal conversation with Futura 2000 (Leonard Hilton McGurr), a legendary figure in New York's early graffiti scene. Now celebrated with a major retrospective at the Bronx Museum, Futura reflects on his journey from pioneering subway artist in the 1970s to international collaborator, designer, and respected elder of the street art world. Together, Stewart and Futura explore the evolution of graffiti into a recognized art form, the importance of creative authenticity, and what it means to come home to the Bronx for his first institutional solo show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Futura’s Beginnings and the Birth of Graffiti as Art

• Early influences and context:
  • Futura discusses growing up on 103rd and Broadway, being shaped by a mixed-race household, and the challenges his parents faced ([03:29]).
  • He began engaging with graffiti in 1970, describing himself as “1.0” of the movement, seeing the act as a means of self-expression and personal identity ([03:11], [04:09]).
  • “I saw graffiti, you know, the pioneers. I mean, I'm certainly 1.0, but… there was a foundation before I arrived.” – Futura 2000 ([03:29])
• Graffiti’s role as a social vehicle:
  • For young New Yorkers without access to cars, the subway system became both literal and figurative vehicle for their art.
  • The iconic 1980 “Break Train” was Futura’s farewell to subway graffiti, captured by legendary photographer Martha Cooper ([04:09]–[05:43]).

Mentors, Peers, and the Subway School

• Paying homage to legendary figures Taki 183, Phase 2, Stay High, Riff 170, and the foundational United Graffiti Artists collective led by Hugo Martinez ([05:49]).
• Emotional story about a fire while painting in 1973, resulting in injuries to his friend “Ali” and prompting Futura’s enlistment in the Navy ([06:38]–[07:41]).

From Graffiti to Galleries: The Transition

• Post-military reintegration and artistic rebirth:

  • After returning to a vastly changed scene, Futura feels a generational gap: “I came back to the block. My boys didn't even get off the block… This ain't it.” ([08:50])
  • Reunites with old friends to reignite the Soul Artists crew—“We rekindled what was a crew called Soul Artists, the sa and that was our crew. And we recruited Zephyr.” ([09:01]–[10:12])

• Graffiti moves above ground and downtown:

  • Collaborations and friendships with luminaries including Fab Five Freddy, Zephyr, Dondi, Eric Haze, and Jean-Michel Basquiat ([10:29]–[10:39]).

• Entering the art world:

  • The pivotal role of early 1980s East Village galleries (esp. Fun Gallery) in legitimizing graffiti.
  • Dealing with the art world’s tendency to reference historic painters whose work he didn’t know:
    • “People were comparing me to Kandinsky… I was like, who that? Like, I don't know. Right. So… it's not really applicable to make references to an artist about someone he or she may be copying when they, in fact, don't even know who you’re talking about.” – Futura 2000 ([11:06])

• Economic realities:

  • While transitioning, Futura takes work as a bike messenger, highlighting the need for side hustles for many artists, even as he continued to create ([14:07]–[14:29]).

Impermanence and the Spirit of Public Art

• On the ephemeral nature of graffiti:
  • “That's life, okay. And work in the public sphere… it's ephemeral. It's like, okay. Transient.” – Futura 2000 ([14:33]–[14:39])
  • Temporary public art as a metaphor for life’s impermanence and the need for constant renewal.
  • In his Bronx Museum show, a freshly painted wall installation is deliberately temporary, juxtaposed with permanent artifacts ([22:01]–[24:30]).

The Magic Black Book: Recovery and Synchronicity

• A lost-and-found story:
  • Futura’s original black book, filled with tags from 1980 and stolen decades ago, serendipitously returns for the exhibition.
    • “At that show, they say, hey, we got this great black book… I started looking at the book and I'm like, it's my book. This is the book that went stolen back in 1980. That’s amazing.” – Futura 2000 ([15:40]–[18:20])

Technical Mastery: The Aerosol Secret

• Practical advice: Always ventilate when using spray paint ([19:09]).
• Signature style:
  • Futura paints with an inverted spray can, producing ultra-thin, precise lines—his “secret” developed over decades:
    • “One of the secrets of my technical style is I paint with an inverted spray can… I kind of hacked the can. Right. To kind of achieve this stuff I needed to do based on the principle of a propellant coming out of a thin nozzle.” ([19:43]–[20:54])

The Current Era: Acceptance, Change, and Mentorship

• Evolving legitimacy of graffiti and public art:

  • Museums and galleries now embrace the form; communities engage with it as families:
    • “I love that public art is temporary. And I think the reception of people today 40 years later is amazing… they're not offended by it. But, you know, back in the day, people were aggressed by it.” ([22:01]–[24:30])
  • The importance of the Bronx Museum’s acknowledgment—"The fact that Bronx is honoring me in this way is a testament...that they stand behind our creativity and our history." ([22:01]–[24:30])

• On legacy, influence, and the next generation:

  • Futura advises young artists to “get off your device…get your hands on some materials… don’t copy, find your own voice.”
    • “Being a copycat of, you know, one thing, I see a lot, and it’s sad to say… how many young artists are just so into Basquiat’s work… It looks like it’s redundancy… He’s someone to be admired, not copied.” ([28:19]–[29:45])

• Evolving practice and accessibility:

  • Currently interested in creating smaller, more accessible works:
    • “Maybe a series of smaller paintings that could find their way in people’s hallways…some kind of a small scale show.” ([26:10]–[28:03])

Friendship and Remembrance

• Touching tributes to peers (Phase 2, Lee Quiñones, Rammellzee):
  • “What I cherish… is my friendship with them… we all know who we are, and we’re very fortunate to be…whether it's the Mount Rushmore metaphor…” ([24:37]–[26:01])
  • Futura recalls a favorite quote from Rammellzee and reflects on health and longevity in the scene ([30:01]–[31:05]).

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Notable Quotes

• On identity and graffiti:
  "It was just about identifying myself in a city... metaphorically, graffiti, as it applied itself to trains in the city, was the vehicle of our expression." – Futura 2000 ([04:09])

• On institutional recognition:
  "I never imagined... this shouldn't be the case. Right? Like, I shouldn't be having an opening at the Bronx Museum. I shouldn't be a celebrated artist graffiti any, you know, tag, label you wish to identify me as." – Futura 2000 ([07:41])

• On impermanence:
  "That's life, okay. And work in the public sphere... it's ephemeral. It's like, okay. Transient." – Futura 2000 ([14:39])

• On the evolution of graffiti’s acceptance:
  "Back in the day, people were aggressed by it. Right, because it represented… a negative element of the culture... That’s all accepted now and people embrace it." – Futura 2000 ([23:01])

• On advice to young artists: "Get off your device, for one. Get your hands on some materials. Start working with your hands..." – Futura 2000 ([28:19]) "I will not give you directions because it’s not my job. It’s your job." ([28:19])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:06 – What a first major museum exhibition means to a New Yorker
• 04:09 – How graffiti became Futura’s form of self-expression
• 05:49 – Key inspirations and peers in early graffiti
• 06:38 – The tunnel fire and its impact (joining the Navy)
• 08:47 – Return from military service and seeing the evolution of graffiti
• 09:01 – Re-establishing with Soul Artists and Zephyr
• 10:29 – Working with Fab Five Freddy, Dondi, Basquiat, and others
• 11:06 – Transitioning into the East Village art world
• 14:33 – Coping with the ephemerality of graffiti
• 15:40 – The lost black book, rediscovered decades later
• 19:09 – Aerosol painting advice and Futura’s secret technique
• 22:01 – How acceptance of graffiti has changed, and what public art represents
• 24:37 – Remembering Phase 2 and friendships
• 26:10 – New directions: smaller works for accessibility
• 28:19 – Advice for young artists and warnings about imitation
• 30:01 – Reflections on Rammellzee and community

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Memorable Moments

• The emotional narrative arc: Futura’s journey from graffitied subway cars to being celebrated by the Bronx Museum is powerfully emblematic of hip-hop and street art’s acceptance into mainstream culture.
• Futura’s rediscovery of his stolen 1980 black book, now on view, blends serendipity with the sense of creative destiny ([15:40]).
• Specific, endearing tips on spray paint technique, including the “hacked” inverted spray can methodology ([19:43]).
• Clear-eyed advice to new artists about creative authenticity, exemplified by his aversion to copycatting Basquiat ([29:45]).

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Conclusion

Futura 2000’s homecoming retrospective at the Bronx Museum is more than a career survey; it’s an affirmation of individual vision, cultural memory, and the enduring vibrancy of New York’s street culture. Through candid storytelling and technical insight, Futura imparts both history and inspiration, emphasizing resilience, reinvention, and the critical importance of charting one’s own creative path.

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Exhibition:
Futura 2000: Breaking Out is on view at the Bronx Museum through March 30, 2025.

Transcript

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[Futura 2000]

Listener supported WNYC studios.

[Alison Stewart]

This is all of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. A new retrospective at the Bronx Museum displays decades of work from a New York artist who found himself amid a cultural revolution. Futura 2000 was a pioneer of graffiti culture in the 70s and 80s when young people in the Bronx and Brooklyn started writing, as they called it, using the trains as a canvas to share their work with New York. Futura is well known for the unique style of bombing one train, covering the entire car with solid colors for a piece he called Break. An archival photo of the train in operation is displayed in this exhibition. Since those early years, Futura has continued to work. He's designed for major brands like Nike and Uniqlo and collaborated with artists like the late Virgil Abloh. Pieces made as recently as 2022 are also on view. Futura 2000 Breaking out is the artist's first show in a major New York institution. It's on view now at the Bronx Muse through March 30th. Futura 2000 is with me now in the studio. Welcome to WNYC.

[Futura 2000]

Thank you, Ellison. Thank you for having me.

[Alison Stewart]

Well, someone who grew up in New York, what does it mean to have a first major exhibition?

[Futura 2000]

Well, it's quite a big thing. I could say I never imagined, you know, as you described my arrival. Yeah, quite a long time ago. It predates hip hop, so 1970, when I was 15.

[Alison Stewart]

So, yeah. Where did you grow up in New York?

[Futura 2000]

I'm from 103rd and Broadway, which had a subway stop. I grew up as an only child with a black mother and a white father. So if you want to consider the. You know, what that must have been like for them. Right. Very difficult. And as a result, just had a very interesting upbringing. And, yeah, in 70, I saw graffiti, you know, the pioneers. I mean, I'm certainly 1.0, but there was a. There were a foundation before I arrived.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. When did you first get interested in art?

[Futura 2000]

Well, art came later. I was interested in writing graffiti because I saw it as a means of self expression. And that sounds like art. Yeah, it totally does. That's a class right now in Columbia. But, you know, it's just about identifying myself in a city. You know, we didn't have a car. My dad worked very hard, and so I used public transport my whole life. I still do. And so, you know, it was just the vehicle. I don't know if you said that, but it, you know, metaphorically, graffiti, as it applied itself to trains in the city, was the vehicle of our expression. And that whole car. You speak of, the Brake Trainer that I painted in 1980, it was my. My kind of love letter to graffiti because I was leaving that school. I called it the subway school. And so, yeah, it's really remarkable that it was photographed by Ms. Martha Cooper, who is a goat in terms of. She's. Along with Henry Chalfont. I mean, there's a list of photo documentarians who've done our movement an incredible service by simply, you know, photographing back then and, yes, documenting. And so the photograph on display at the Bronx Museum of the Brake Train, which is a moment for me creatively, is only made possible through her photography. So I'm kind of connected to the hip with Martha in a very good Way. And I love her so much.

[Alison Stewart]

You mentioned that you were sort of 1.0 in the graffiti revolution. Who did you look up to?

[Futura 2000]

Well, there was a. Okay, as a toy, which is a neophyte, you know, a beginning graffiti writer with no recognition, no respect, no name to speak of. I was looking at those names of writers, most obviously. Taki 183, a crew from Uptown Writer's Corner, 188, in the Fort Washington area. Snake 1 Stitch 1 Cat 87. And then ultimately, in the early 70s, the UGA was the first organized movement with phase two, Stay High, Riff One Hundred and Seventy, that was run by a gentleman named Hugo Martinez. So that was my first insight into who was who. And although I was not known, I was old enough and smart enough to understand where to be, to be around them. And, you know, I feel I learned a lot. Sadly. I have a story. In 1973, literally 51 years ago this week, this Labor Day weekend, with a friend of mine named Mark, we were painting in Manhattan and a fire broke out and he was badly burned. And we were. We were illegally painting graffiti in what's called the one tunnel between. On the one line, the one and nine. Now, there was no nine when I grew up, but on the one line between 137 and 145th street on that line. And there was a fire, and as a result, he was badly burned. And as a result, subsequent to that accident incident, I joined the military in February of 1974.

[Alison Stewart]

You joined the Navy?

[Futura 2000]

Yeah, I did, yes.

[Alison Stewart]

Wow.

[Futura 2000]

So I was doing that. You know, what's remarkable about my story, Alison, is that I shouldn't. This shouldn't be the case. Right? Like, I shouldn't be having an opening at the Bronx Museum. I shouldn't be a celebrated artist graffiti any, you know, tag, label you wish to identify me as. I shouldn't be any of those things because I had done a departure based on that fire to where I was trying to evolve. And my God, this is terrible. My boy almost died. Perhaps not so severe, but was badly burned. And after years later wore the scars. I mean, you know, he somehow. 1978, when I got out of my four year enlistment, I came back to New York only to discover what had happened with graffiti. It had evolved. Now you have all the really great painters of that story. The Lees, the Dandies, the scenes, the blaze. Like, everyone who just destroyed, in a beautiful way, the subway system and did remarkable work. And that kind of blew my mind when I came back. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Did you? What? How did it change how you felt about graffiti?

[Futura 2000]

Well, I mean, I still admired it, you know, I had a. It was like a love affair with it. But I was also like, oh, no, I'm not a graffiti writer anymore. I had a car. I just come out of the military. I had all this like worldly experience. I'd been to all these countries as a result of my enlistment or during my service. I came back to the block. My boys didn't even get off the block. So there was a kind of a gap between me and my people. And I was like, this ain't it. Went to Georgia, had a short lived moment in Savannah. Was kind of all over the place. Trying to readjust, in fact, to civilian society after a four year military stint. Right. It's not college, it's not a bid, you didn't come out of jail. But it is a kind of have to come back into society moment. And I just couldn't do it initially. Ran away. 79. I come back, Mark. My friend who had burned his graffiti name was Ali. Muhammad Ali was his inspiration. And he's like, yeah, I'm getting the band back together again. We're gonna. So we were squatting in a storefront on 107th and Columbus and we rekindled what was a crew called Soul Artists, the sa and that was our crew. And we recruited Zephyr.

[Alison Stewart]

My guest is Futura. We are talking about his Bronx Museum, Futura 2000 breaking out. It's on view at the Bronx Museum through March 30th. So you were talking about all the people, you were talking about all the people that you were working with. And you said Fat five Freddie.

[Futura 2000]

Yes, Fab was there. I mentioned Dondi Zephyr, Eric Hayes, of course, and then Jean Michel, you know.

[Alison Stewart]

So Jean Michel Basquiat, right?

[Futura 2000]

So this is 1980, 79 into 80 into 81. All these events were happening and now we're above ground right now we're not. I mean, people were still being illegal. I was not.

[Alison Stewart]

What was. What sort of changed your mind? Like, you'd been away, you'd been in the military, you came back, you weren't quite so sure. What changed your mind about, oh, I want to do this again?

[Futura 2000]

I can't really answer that, Alice. And I don't know. You know, once again, I could tell you it's a destiny play because it. And even at that time, I was simply following other people. You know, Fab, specifically Fred was a real bridge for us in terms of uptown meets downtown. And Fred and I would Form a fantastic relationship. We had studio together in Lower east side and went on tours together. And, you know, we just did a bunch of stuff. And so he's very instrumental in my story, early days. But the vibe was, yeah, we weren't going to be illegal. We were going to explore this creativity we had in a more, you know, positive fashion. And all of a sudden, all these East Village galleries started popping up, and one specifically called the Fun Gallery, we just lost the Miss Patty Astor, who was the leader of all that. But that whole scene in the early 80s was pretty incredible, with the rise of obviously Keith and Jean more specifically even than the subway folks, because I think we were there, but we were now in the art world, and we didn't really have the academic wherewithal to hang there. You know what I mean? Like, people were comparing me to Kandinsky, which I don't take as a diss. Now I'm like, wow, thank you. That's quite a compliment. And I kind of said the same thing then, but I was like, who that? Like, I don't know. Right. So. So it's not really applicable to make references to an artist about someone he or she may be copying when they, in fact, don't even know who you're talking about. Right. So that's when I realized that, wow, the art world is all about, like, identity, identifying, and also shouting out that inspiration. See, if I would have just played dumb and been like, well, great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yes, he's been very influential. You see what I mean? I didn't know the parlance. And so I got played, basically. I really did. And so end. I won't even say the 80s didn't end well, or that by 1984, I have a child, my firstborn, my son Timothy, very. You know, it's like he and his sister's my best work. I've said that, obviously, of course it's true. But just that at that moment, the art world wasn't there for me, and I got to support a child. And so for a few years, I was one of the first adventurous bike messengers in New York City. And it's funny, in the museum show, I have a little display of, like, my messenger bag, my. My beeper, you know, like, let people know, like, I had to work. I had to work, okay, for a few years when the art world, or actually nobody was really being receptive. And not that I was complaining or crying, because no matter what station of life I've ever been in, I'm doing better than Someone else. Right. So I'm not going to cry about my situation. I'm gonna fix it in some way.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, but your point was that you had to work while you were doing that.

[Futura 2000]

I did and I did work, you know? And the thing was, I hadn't worked for a while because I don't call what I do my creative passion. That's not really work, you know? I mean, yes, I'm compensated for my time, but I know that I enjoy what I do, you know, it's not. I'm not like. It's not labor.

[Alison Stewart]

How do you deal with the. Especially the early days, the impermanence of art?

[Futura 2000]

I love it.

[Alison Stewart]

Yes. Tell me more.

[Futura 2000]

I love it. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Because some of the cars get cleaned up.

[Futura 2000]

Yeah. And you know what? That's. That's life. Okay. And work in the public sphere. Space. Yeah. It's ephemeral. It's like, okay. Transient. It's all these things. So for my exhibition, I have works, canvases, sculptures, paper, blah, blah. I got the whole litany of all my creativity on display. Products, tchotchkes, everything. NW Henweis.

[Alison Stewart]

We're having a conversation with Futura 2000.

[Futura 2000]

What's wrong with me?

[Alison Stewart]

His work is called Futura 2000 Breaking Out. It's at the Bronx Museum through March 30th. We're just having a conversation. It happens sometimes. Used to be a sailor. That's so funny. That's so funny. I used to be a sailor. That is the best explanation I've ever heard.

[Futura 2000]

We hear that sometime, but sorry, mea culpa.

[Alison Stewart]

In the museum, there are sketchbooks from, I think 80. It is, yes. What were you sketching at the time?

[Futura 2000]

Okay, so that's a very strange story, Alison. I'll quickly do it. So when.

[Alison Stewart]

Don't curse again.

[Futura 2000]

No, I certainly. I'm gonna hold myself. That S word. So when the show was coming together and so prior to Bronx, this show, really, the catalyst and the birth of this show began in Buffalo, New York, last year. They gave me a great exhibition, kind of the retrospective that we see now. This is a truncated version here in the Bronx of what I had there in addition to current work. It was a wonderful moment in Buffalo, and I was so grateful for all of them to kind of put all this on the map and get the Bronx interested enough to give me this show. But at that show, they say, hey, we got this great black book and a black book. Every graffiti artist in the world knows it's an art book. We all have. And we go to openings and we Exchange signatures and we gather other individuals tags. So I had one over a period of a couple of months in the studio in 1980, and everybody signed it. You know what? The 59th day of those two months, someone stole the book. And you know, this is 44 years ago. No use crying over spilled milk. Oh, by the way, black books do get stolen because emotionally they might have value to someone. They see it, they're like, oh, hey, that's mine. Right, okay. No honor among thieves. And we, we did steal paint. So there was a thievery element of the culture, which. So, okay, forget it. Last year I'm opening this book that they have on loan and I'm like. And they're like, oh, yeah, Lenny, for sure. There's some of your tags in it. I started looking at the book and I'm like, it's my book. This is the book that went stolen back in 1980. That's amazing. So there was this incredible boomerang effect that happened, which I took as a sign from above. It might not be religious, it might be extraterrestrial. Okay. But something happened and I was like, man, that's so amazing. So that black book is on display. We brought it to the Bronx show. So that's there. And I was explaining to people, like, well, that's a remarkable boomerang story. No doubt. It's like, what great karma. But that book predates anything I ever made creatively because when that session was happening, I hadn't painted the break train yet. This is summer of 80 when this happened. So none of my breakout stuff has even. I don't even think I've made a painting yet.

[Alison Stewart]

But you were thinking about it.

[Futura 2000]

I was. So that was a wonderful addition to the show. And yeah, we have that in the Bronx at the moment.

[Alison Stewart]

The name of the show is Futura 2000 breaking out. It's now on view at the Bronx Museum. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of it. This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Futura 2000. He has a new exhibition at the Bronx Museum, Futura 2000 breaking out. It is on view through March 30th. You're a master at the aerosol with aerosol spray paint. What. What is something that you would want people to know who don't have never worked with aerosol, that you would want them to know about what it takes to use aerosol?

[Futura 2000]

Yeah, I mean, adequate ventilation. Okay. Number one, if you're going to be ever using aerosol, Paint of any level for anything, any aerosol propellant product. Ventilate outdoors, which is where our culture started. We didn't really consider that so much, you know, because we were outdoors and. But I mean, wearing a mask is always recommended as well. But yeah, I mean, I don't want to plug myself, but I did a masterclass, so.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, right on.

[Futura 2000]

You want to check that out? I mean, I kind of try to show people, I guess, you know, how to spray paint, but. But it's, it's the kind of thing also, like, that's not really. My advice is just you need to experiment and figure out the medium yourself. It's not that difficult to control. I mean, you're not going to pull off lines that I'm probably doing. Because one of the secrets of my technical style is I paint with an inverted spray can. So if you can imagine, in order for me to achieve what they talk about, oh, you get all these remarkably thin lines and blah, blah, blah. And so that's a result of. Yeah, the cans upside down. Because over a 40 year period, 50 if you will, I've learned the physics and the whatever of how an aerosol can works and I figured out how to, you know, I kind of hacked the can. Right. To kind of achieve this stuff I needed to do based on the principle of a propellant coming out of a thin nozzle. You know, it's, it's technical, but.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah. When did you discover that?

[Futura 2000]

Early days. Early days, because when you are asked to, if you look at the can and read the instructions after you've used it in the upright, normal position, they tell you to turn the can upside down and spray it. What you're doing there is you're unclogging this straw and the nozzle system that it is, its function. While I was doing that, I noticed that the line got super thin to the point where it almost disappeared. And then I understood what was happening. Yeah, I'm pushing out all the paint and there's not. And there's basically no more paint. I'm pushing out air. So then it's a four or five year study of like, well, where is that? What's happening in that gap? And that's my secret right there. So if you guys and gals want to try to figure that out, go for it. Go for it.

[Alison Stewart]

You know, public art is much more accepted in culture these days. There are museums, there are galleries for graffiti artists. How do you think the acceptance of the art form has affected the nature of it?

[Futura 2000]

Well, that's a thank you for asking that, because I didn't finish the point about public art and the ephemera thing. So at the museum, I painted a wall there as an installation and that's intended to show people, hey, this isn't permanent, okay? We're looking at all this other permanence, this product, the chatsky, all that stuff. But this is a wall I've simply painted that is temporary in the same way that work is in the public space. Someone can come and buy the property, new ownership. I hate that paint over. It rivals others toys. Anyone can come and deface, go over, do whatever. Once you put it up there in the public space, quote unquote, the streets are talking and they will determine the outcome of that tag mural wall. It's sad. Sometime a beautiful mural is created by some fantastic artists from imported from South America or Europe or whatever. And some kid from down the block, a local crew will just come and tag right over. You see what I mean? So there's nothing really to control out there other than to understand nothing is permanent. So to me, it lets the young people know, hey, at a certain point, you need to start over and recreate and keep creating. So I love that public art is temporary. And I think the reception of people today 40 years later is amazing because they're as evident Sunday in the public opening, people coming in the door with their kids as a workshop for them to doodle and draw and be engaged with the art. And I think they're not offended by it. But, you know, back in the day, people were aggressed by it. Right, because it represented a kind of a negative element of the culture, whether it was the music, the fashion, the look, the color. Yeah, that's all accepted now and people embrace it. And I think from a New Yorker's point of view, we realized like, yeah, we did start hip hop culture, we did start this urban street art movement, and we need to take ownership for that. So the fact that Bronx is honoring me in this way is a testament to that, in fact, that they stand behind our creativity and our history. And yeah, right now, I guess I'm the poster boy for it. And that's great, you know, it serves me well. But I hope in turn will open doors for other individuals as well.

[Alison Stewart]

We did a piece on Phase two, had a gallery show. Angela Ortiz had, like, in the past few years, it's been a real thing.

[Futura 2000]

I mentioned Faze as one of the original UGA members. And Lonnie, rest in peace, he was an individual in that school. I won't Say the graffiti word because he was opposed to it, but the subway school, he would have accepted that was not only a genius and someone who was a style master and really, like, ahead of his time. But what I cherish, Alison, with all these characters is my friendship with them and the fact that, like, you know, we all know. You know, it's like we all know what's up, and we know who we are, and we're very fortunate to be. Whether it's the Mount Rushmore metaphor or whatever you want to call it, about a movement and who's important in it, you know, Lee Quinones made a very famous painting called the Bench, which is a famous location in the Bronx, 149th street and Grand Concourse stop, where graffiti writers used to watch trains bench. Sitting on a bench, watching trains go by, that's called Benching. But a famous location. And he depicted various artists from our story. Blade is one and Faze and got myself in there. It's kind of like a Dutch Masters kind of a moment in a painting. It's a remarkable painting. But, yeah, Faze is someone who I. I think about every day. Yeah, I really do. I love Lonnie.

[Alison Stewart]

Yeah, you've been. There are some paintings that are recent of yours in the show as well. 2022. How do you work today?

[Futura 2000]

You know, I'm onto something else. I mean, I'm trying to evolve. Right. Obviously, I think. But I mean, I do have my toolbox and I have my iconography and my cranes and my atomic elements, and, you know, I have reoccurring themes. Right. But I'm also still looking to, you know, move beyond those things that are. I find comfort or are, you know, kind of standard examples of a futura painting. But, yeah, I mean, I'm pursuing a whole new series of work at the moment. It's, strangely enough, you know, I'm considering bringing my scale down in terms of size of work.

[Alison Stewart]

Oh, interesting.

[Futura 2000]

Yeah. But I think actually that's more of even like, try to accommodate. I don't want to call them a new collector base, but, you know, another price point. Right. Because everything is determined ultimately by size. You know, that's the scale of economics. Right. Small, medium, large, and. And in the sense that, you know, those three items will cost. You know, it's like three different prices. So I'm looking at that because I've been working in a large scale of late. The show. I had, as I mentioned, in Buffalo, some of my newer work, you know, couple two, three meters, six to nine feet by four or Five feet. You know, those are big pieces you could call institutional. Ish sizes. Certainly gallery work, but nobody in the, you know, nobody in the. In the hood's going to have this in their apartment. So maybe a series of smaller paintings that could find their way in people's hallways. That's cool. Dens, bathroom. You know what I mean? Something like that. Like some kind of a small scale show where I could do a lot of work. You know, it's something I was thinking about.

[Alison Stewart]

Keep thinking about that.

[Futura 2000]

Thank you. I will.

[Alison Stewart]

If there's a young artist who's. Who's listening today and is saying, well, I can't get on the trains, I shouldn't be painting, where would you. What would you suggest they do to touch their creativity? Where can they go? What should they do?

[Futura 2000]

Get off your device, for one. Get your hands on some materials. Start working with your hands, you know, whatever the case may be. But for young people trying to get into the game or trying to, hey, how do I. How do I do this? You know, one of the things I said is, well, you know, good luck. Like, don't really. I mean, role model. Okay. I mean, great father. Yes. But just to say I'm not someone who you're ever going to be able to replicate, you know, this is not. The mold is broken. I'm not a cookie cutter. However, I would love to help young people pursue their creativity and aspirations. And I can draw you a map exactly of the terrain that you're in and what's going on. I'll highlight all this and that and. And brands, galleries, all this stuff, but I will not. And this is a very detailed map, but I will not give you directions because it's not my job. It's your job. I can help you, and I want to help. Yeah. I'll provide everything you need. Maybe resources or something, but you need to go figure it out, because being a copycat of, you know, one thing, I see a lot, and it's sad to say, but how many young artists are just so into Basquiat's work that it's. It looks like it's redundancy? And it's sad because he's someone to be admired, not copied. Right.

[Alison Stewart]

So figure out who you are.

[Futura 2000]

Yes. What you're gonna do, take from Jean, take from any artist in history those elements you find interesting and explore them, but do something with them, you know what I mean?

[Alison Stewart]

Our next guests, we're gonna be talking about this.

[Futura 2000]

I heard about that. I spoke with Max, I believe, at one point, and I Love that book. I looked all through it and it's incredible. I have a great quote in there about voice answering machine messages that Ram sent me. It's one of my greatest memories. I mean, he was a great friend also. I know Ram. Yeah.

[Alison Stewart]

Tell me a little bit about it before we wrap up.

[Futura 2000]

Yeah, I mean, I met Ram when he first arrived just after he'd written his iconoclast Panzerism, you know, Opus. Yeah. Wow. Just, you know, the kind. Not, not Jekyll and Hyde, but like you're a maniac, but you're a genius. Right. Like you have a crazy side, but you're so brilliant. Right. And sadly, I think, you know, just over abused of it a bit. Right. Like a lot of people have. And you have to also take care of your body. You know, it's. That's your temple right there. But I loved Ram.

[Alison Stewart]

Futura 2000 Breaking out is now on view at the Bronx Museum. In all through March 30, Futura 2000 has been my guest. Thank you so much for coming.

[Futura 2000]

Thank you, Alison. Thank you, wnyc. I've been a listener for a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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[Futura 2000]

Let's go.

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[Futura 2000]

The Gecko.

[Geico Fan]

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[Alison Stewart]

I'm always honored to meet fans out in the wild.

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[Alison Stewart]

Well, the Geico app is top notch.

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[Futura 2000]

Sign what?

[Alison Stewart]

The app. Yeah, sure.

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[Alison Stewart]

Anything to help, I suppose.

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[Futura 2000]

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