All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: FUTURA2000's Homecoming Retrospective at The Bronx Museum
Aired: September 10, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of "All Of It" on WNYC, hosted by Alison Stewart, features a vibrant and deeply personal conversation with Futura 2000 (Leonard Hilton McGurr), a legendary figure in New York's early graffiti scene. Now celebrated with a major retrospective at the Bronx Museum, Futura reflects on his journey from pioneering subway artist in the 1970s to international collaborator, designer, and respected elder of the street art world. Together, Stewart and Futura explore the evolution of graffiti into a recognized art form, the importance of creative authenticity, and what it means to come home to the Bronx for his first institutional solo show.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Futura’s Beginnings and the Birth of Graffiti as Art

• Early influences and context:
  • Futura discusses growing up on 103rd and Broadway, being shaped by a mixed-race household, and the challenges his parents faced ([03:29]).
  • He began engaging with graffiti in 1970, describing himself as “1.0” of the movement, seeing the act as a means of self-expression and personal identity ([03:11], [04:09]).
  • “I saw graffiti, you know, the pioneers. I mean, I'm certainly 1.0, but… there was a foundation before I arrived.” – Futura 2000 ([03:29])
• Graffiti’s role as a social vehicle:
  • For young New Yorkers without access to cars, the subway system became both literal and figurative vehicle for their art.
  • The iconic 1980 “Break Train” was Futura’s farewell to subway graffiti, captured by legendary photographer Martha Cooper ([04:09]–[05:43]).

Mentors, Peers, and the Subway School

• Paying homage to legendary figures Taki 183, Phase 2, Stay High, Riff 170, and the foundational United Graffiti Artists collective led by Hugo Martinez ([05:49]).
• Emotional story about a fire while painting in 1973, resulting in injuries to his friend “Ali” and prompting Futura’s enlistment in the Navy ([06:38]–[07:41]).

From Graffiti to Galleries: The Transition

• Post-military reintegration and artistic rebirth:

  • After returning to a vastly changed scene, Futura feels a generational gap: “I came back to the block. My boys didn't even get off the block… This ain't it.” ([08:50])
  • Reunites with old friends to reignite the Soul Artists crew—“We rekindled what was a crew called Soul Artists, the sa and that was our crew. And we recruited Zephyr.” ([09:01]–[10:12])

• Graffiti moves above ground and downtown:

  • Collaborations and friendships with luminaries including Fab Five Freddy, Zephyr, Dondi, Eric Haze, and Jean-Michel Basquiat ([10:29]–[10:39]).

• Entering the art world:

  • The pivotal role of early 1980s East Village galleries (esp. Fun Gallery) in legitimizing graffiti.
  • Dealing with the art world’s tendency to reference historic painters whose work he didn’t know:
    • “People were comparing me to Kandinsky… I was like, who that? Like, I don't know. Right. So… it's not really applicable to make references to an artist about someone he or she may be copying when they, in fact, don't even know who you’re talking about.” – Futura 2000 ([11:06])

• Economic realities:

  • While transitioning, Futura takes work as a bike messenger, highlighting the need for side hustles for many artists, even as he continued to create ([14:07]–[14:29]).

Impermanence and the Spirit of Public Art

• On the ephemeral nature of graffiti:
  • “That's life, okay. And work in the public sphere… it's ephemeral. It's like, okay. Transient.” – Futura 2000 ([14:33]–[14:39])
  • Temporary public art as a metaphor for life’s impermanence and the need for constant renewal.
  • In his Bronx Museum show, a freshly painted wall installation is deliberately temporary, juxtaposed with permanent artifacts ([22:01]–[24:30]).

The Magic Black Book: Recovery and Synchronicity

• A lost-and-found story:
  • Futura’s original black book, filled with tags from 1980 and stolen decades ago, serendipitously returns for the exhibition.
    • “At that show, they say, hey, we got this great black book… I started looking at the book and I'm like, it's my book. This is the book that went stolen back in 1980. That’s amazing.” – Futura 2000 ([15:40]–[18:20])

Technical Mastery: The Aerosol Secret

• Practical advice: Always ventilate when using spray paint ([19:09]).
• Signature style:
  • Futura paints with an inverted spray can, producing ultra-thin, precise lines—his “secret” developed over decades:
    • “One of the secrets of my technical style is I paint with an inverted spray can… I kind of hacked the can. Right. To kind of achieve this stuff I needed to do based on the principle of a propellant coming out of a thin nozzle.” ([19:43]–[20:54])

The Current Era: Acceptance, Change, and Mentorship

• Evolving legitimacy of graffiti and public art:

  • Museums and galleries now embrace the form; communities engage with it as families:
    • “I love that public art is temporary. And I think the reception of people today 40 years later is amazing… they're not offended by it. But, you know, back in the day, people were aggressed by it.” ([22:01]–[24:30])
  • The importance of the Bronx Museum’s acknowledgment—"The fact that Bronx is honoring me in this way is a testament...that they stand behind our creativity and our history." ([22:01]–[24:30])

• On legacy, influence, and the next generation:

  • Futura advises young artists to “get off your device…get your hands on some materials… don’t copy, find your own voice.”
    • “Being a copycat of, you know, one thing, I see a lot, and it’s sad to say… how many young artists are just so into Basquiat’s work… It looks like it’s redundancy… He’s someone to be admired, not copied.” ([28:19]–[29:45])

• Evolving practice and accessibility:

  • Currently interested in creating smaller, more accessible works:
    • “Maybe a series of smaller paintings that could find their way in people’s hallways…some kind of a small scale show.” ([26:10]–[28:03])

Friendship and Remembrance

• Touching tributes to peers (Phase 2, Lee Quiñones, Rammellzee):
  • “What I cherish… is my friendship with them… we all know who we are, and we’re very fortunate to be…whether it's the Mount Rushmore metaphor…” ([24:37]–[26:01])
  • Futura recalls a favorite quote from Rammellzee and reflects on health and longevity in the scene ([30:01]–[31:05]).

Notable Quotes

• On identity and graffiti:
  "It was just about identifying myself in a city... metaphorically, graffiti, as it applied itself to trains in the city, was the vehicle of our expression." – Futura 2000 ([04:09])

• On institutional recognition:
  "I never imagined... this shouldn't be the case. Right? Like, I shouldn't be having an opening at the Bronx Museum. I shouldn't be a celebrated artist graffiti any, you know, tag, label you wish to identify me as." – Futura 2000 ([07:41])

• On impermanence:
  "That's life, okay. And work in the public sphere... it's ephemeral. It's like, okay. Transient." – Futura 2000 ([14:39])

• On the evolution of graffiti’s acceptance:
  "Back in the day, people were aggressed by it. Right, because it represented… a negative element of the culture... That’s all accepted now and people embrace it." – Futura 2000 ([23:01])

• On advice to young artists: "Get off your device, for one. Get your hands on some materials. Start working with your hands..." – Futura 2000 ([28:19]) "I will not give you directions because it’s not my job. It’s your job." ([28:19])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:06 – What a first major museum exhibition means to a New Yorker
• 04:09 – How graffiti became Futura’s form of self-expression
• 05:49 – Key inspirations and peers in early graffiti
• 06:38 – The tunnel fire and its impact (joining the Navy)
• 08:47 – Return from military service and seeing the evolution of graffiti
• 09:01 – Re-establishing with Soul Artists and Zephyr
• 10:29 – Working with Fab Five Freddy, Dondi, Basquiat, and others
• 11:06 – Transitioning into the East Village art world
• 14:33 – Coping with the ephemerality of graffiti
• 15:40 – The lost black book, rediscovered decades later
• 19:09 – Aerosol painting advice and Futura’s secret technique
• 22:01 – How acceptance of graffiti has changed, and what public art represents
• 24:37 – Remembering Phase 2 and friendships
• 26:10 – New directions: smaller works for accessibility
• 28:19 – Advice for young artists and warnings about imitation
• 30:01 – Reflections on Rammellzee and community

Memorable Moments

• The emotional narrative arc: Futura’s journey from graffitied subway cars to being celebrated by the Bronx Museum is powerfully emblematic of hip-hop and street art’s acceptance into mainstream culture.
• Futura’s rediscovery of his stolen 1980 black book, now on view, blends serendipity with the sense of creative destiny ([15:40]).
• Specific, endearing tips on spray paint technique, including the “hacked” inverted spray can methodology ([19:43]).
• Clear-eyed advice to new artists about creative authenticity, exemplified by his aversion to copycatting Basquiat ([29:45]).

Conclusion

Futura 2000’s homecoming retrospective at the Bronx Museum is more than a career survey; it’s an affirmation of individual vision, cultural memory, and the enduring vibrancy of New York’s street culture. Through candid storytelling and technical insight, Futura imparts both history and inspiration, emphasizing resilience, reinvention, and the critical importance of charting one’s own creative path.

Exhibition:
Futura 2000: Breaking Out is on view at the Bronx Museum through March 30, 2025.