Podcast Summary: "Get Lit: Imani Perry on 'Black in Blues'"
Episode Details:
- Title: Get Lit: Imani Perry on 'Black in Blues'
- Host: Alison Stewart
- Guest: Imani Perry
- Release Date: March 7, 2025
- Podcast: All Of It by WNYC
- Description: In this episode, Alison Stewart engages with scholar Imani Perry to discuss her latest book, exploring the profound significance of the color blue in black history and culture.
Introduction to Imani Perry’s Book
[00:35] Alison Stewart introduces Imani Perry’s book, Black in How a Color Tells the Story of My People, highlighting its focus on the color blue as a lens to explore black history. She mentions that the book delves into various themes, including debunking myths about black people with blue gums and examining the power of the blue note in music.
"It's called the blues for a reason. In a wide-ranging conversation, Imani and I discuss a harmful myth about black people with blue gums, the power of the blue note and more."
— Alison Stewart [00:35]
The Significance of Blue in African American Culture
Imani Perry explains how the color blue became a central theme in her work, noting its prevalence among contemporary black artists and its personal significance rooted in her grandmother's blue-painted bedroom.
"It was this brilliant sky blue. And he said that one. And so it was just this, so that sense of it being a portal and being surrounded in blue."
— Imani Perry [01:39]
She emphasizes that blue represents both beauty and suffering, acting as a portal to understanding the dualities of the black experience.
Research Process and Discoveries
Imani Perry describes the extensive and multifaceted research process behind her book, which included exploring dental journals, archaeological digs, and color theory.
"It was lots of pieces of paper and lots of files and lots of rabbit holes and then sorting and pruning and trying to get the pieces right in relation to each other."
— Imani Perry [05:45]
Myths and Folklore Surrounding Blue
One notable myth discussed is the lore that black individuals with blue gums possessed the deadly ability to kill with a bite. Perry uncovers this myth through sources like Faulkner's writings and dental journals, exploring its implications on racial stereotypes.
"It's old fat, right? And it's a tricky one. And I write about because it's, you know, it's like it, it hinges on this idea of black people as dangerous and threatening."
— Imani Perry [06:36]
She reflects on how such myths perpetuate harmful stereotypes and the complexities of race and perception.
The Duality of Blue: Emotion and Symbolism
Perry delves into the emotional spectrum that blue encapsulates—ranging from sadness to happiness—and its spiritual and aesthetic significance.
"Blue can be used for sad, it can be used for hopefulness, it can be used for happiness. Contrapuntal."
— Imani Perry [09:52]
She attributes this versatility to blue’s association with natural elements like water and sky, which hold deep spiritual meanings across various cultures.
Blue Jays and Symbolic Resistance
The conversation touches on folklore about blue jays visiting hell to report white misdeeds, symbolizing resistance and ethical behavior within black folklore.
"It's a reminder that these people who were telling the story had a sense of ethics and decency that was in deep contrast to the society in which they live."
— Imani Perry [11:40]
Perry appreciates how such stories embody everyday wisdom and subtle resistance against injustice.
The Story of Indigo and Colonialism
Perry recounts a Liberian folktale about the origin of indigo, illustrating the destructive desire for beauty and its ties to the indigo trade and racial injustice.
"Race and racism are not natural. Cruelty to other human beings is not natural. It's something though, that is produced by greed and certain kinds of drives for possession."
— Imani Perry [15:19]
She uses this narrative to highlight the artificial constructs of race and the profound impacts of colonialism.
Appearance and Racial Identity
The discussion includes the historical perception of blue-eyed black individuals as threats due to their ability to "slip into" whiteness, reflecting anxieties about racial boundaries and identity.
"The presence of blue-eyed black people was considered a threat because of their proximity to whiteness and that they could slip into whiteness without being detected."
— Imani Perry [15:52]
Perry explores how these perceptions reveal the constructed nature of racial identity.
The Democratic Republic of Congo and Global Connections
Perry dedicates significant attention to the history of the Democratic Republic of Congo, emphasizing its influence on African American culture and the global connections inherent in black studies.
"Congo, the culture of the Congo Kingdom, is so central to the formation of African American culture and something that we don't talk about that much."
— Imani Perry [17:12]
She underscores the importance of anti-colonialism and global solidarity in understanding black history.
The Blue Note in Music
Exploring the musical concept of the blue note, Perry explains its foundational role in black and American music, embodying emotional depth and complexity.
"The blue note is the heart of black music and the heart of American music too. It gives the music its fullness and its emotional complexity."
— Imani Perry [19:42]
She argues that the blue note transcends being merely a musical anomaly, serving as a profound linguistic and emotional tool within music.
Conclusion
Alison Stewart wraps up the conversation, noting that the discussion took place during the February "Get Lit with All Of It Book Club" event, where listeners engaged with Perry’s book through a reading program supported by the New York Public Library.
"This was my conversation with author Imani Perry from our February Get Lit with all of It Book Club event."
— Alison Stewart [21:32]
The episode concludes by introducing the next book club selection, Mothers and Sons by Adam Hayslett.
Key Takeaways:
- Imani Perry’s exploration of the color blue serves as a multifaceted lens to examine black history, culture, and identity.
- Blue symbolizes a spectrum of emotions and carries deep spiritual and cultural significance.
- Myths and folklore, such as the dangerous blue gums and the ethical blue jays, reflect societal perceptions and resistance within the black community.
- Global connections, particularly with the Democratic Republic of Congo, highlight the intertwined nature of black history worldwide.
- The blue note in music exemplifies the emotional and cultural depth intrinsic to black and American music traditions.
Notable Quotes:
"Blue is ever present. And so I said, well, if I'm going to tell these stories, I'm going to engage people's senses fully."
— Imani Perry [03:10]
"If we think about it in the context of Western music, it's the outlier. But in the context of our music, it's what makes the music what it is."
— Imani Perry [19:51]
"Home is where your dead are buried, and it was a way of making home in this place."
— Imani Perry [08:41]
This episode offers a profound exploration of how a single color can encapsulate the complexities of a people's history, emotions, and cultural expressions, inviting listeners to engage deeply with the multifaceted narratives that shape African American identity.