Podcast Summary: All Of It – "Get Lit: Laila Lalami on 'The Dream Hotel'"

Introduction

In the episode titled "Get Lit: Laila Lalami on 'The Dream Hotel'," hosted by Alison Stewart on WNYC's All Of It podcast, celebrated author Laila Lalami delves into her latest novel, The Dream Hotel. This episode, recorded on May 9, 2025, offers a comprehensive exploration of the book's themes, character development, and the societal implications of advanced surveillance technologies. Engaging a sold-out audience at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library, Lalami provides insightful perspectives on her work, enriched by audience questions and her personal reflections.

Overview of The Dream Hotel

The Dream Hotel presents a near-future dystopian society where an AI algorithm analyzes individuals' dreams to predict potential criminal behavior. The protagonist, Sara, a new mother of twins, inadvertently becomes a target after using a device meant to enhance her sleep quality. Misinterpreting her dreams, the AI brands her as a future threat, leading to her detention at a facility known as Madison. The novel scrutinizes themes such as surveillance capitalism, the flaws within the justice system, the efficacy of protest, and the ethical dimensions of artificial intelligence.

Character Development and Gender Dynamics

Initially, Lalami had envisioned the protagonist as a man. However, she made a pivotal change to a female character to better explore gender-based surveillance and control. As Lalami explains at [01:54], "I thought, well, this is interesting because obviously I'm taking the world of technological surveillance to its absurd limit... one of the most basic forms of control that we have in our society is sort of like this gender-based form of control, AKA the patriarchy." This shift allowed her to delve deeper into how societal expectations and internalized behaviors affect women differently under pervasive surveillance.

Setting and Technological Plausibility

Lalami chose to set the novel approximately 20 years into the future to maintain a sense of realism and plausibility. At [04:15], she states, "Twenty years into the future is just about far enough that none of us know what kind of technology will exist. The entire world that we now live in... it felt to me that picking a time that is about 20 years in the future would give me the ability to create a world that felt extremely real and plausible and frightening."

Surveillance and Privacy Concerns

A central theme of The Dream Hotel is the erosion of privacy through technological advancements. Lalami articulates her concerns at [06:18]: "We're trading our freedoms and even our free will... for the convenience of being able to... see the faces of loved ones and stay connected." She emphasizes the dangers of unchecked data collection and the potential for such technologies to be exploited by both corporations and governments, leading to a loss of individual autonomy.

Madison Retention Center: A Symbol of Control

Madison, the retention center where Sara is held, serves as a microcosm of the broader societal control mechanisms. Lalami describes the facility's creation, mirroring the disinvestment in education and community support, at [19:24]: "It's about this continual and just ever-increasing investment in punishment... rather than in nurturing people and educating and taking care of them."

Language as a Tool of Control

Lalami highlights the manipulation of language as a means to normalize oppressive systems. At [10:37], she explains, "Language is like one of the primary sites of our arguments about politics... To get people to accept that people are being detained for no crime, the language around it had to change." By renaming detention centers to "retention centers," the narrative becomes less accusatory, facilitating broader acceptance of invasive practices.

Technological Surveillance and Identity

Sara's Arab American identity plays a crucial role in her detention. Lalami discusses how appearance and societal biases influence surveillance practices at [12:44]: "Some people, by virtue of their appearance... are going to be more noticeable to law enforcement... It's because she dared to name that thing... that everything starts to go wrong." This underscores the intersectionality of technology and systemic bias.

Author’s Personal Reflections on Technology

Lalami shares her personal relationship with technology, revealing attempts to minimize unnecessary digital engagement. At [28:56], she mentions, "I take the trouble... to decline everything... I use VPN when I can... I'm done with promoting this book, is to kind of quit social media altogether." Her reflections add depth to the novel's exploration of technological dependence and resistance.

Audience Engagement and Questions

The sold-out audience engaged with Lalami through thought-provoking questions. One audience member at [25:20] inquired about the possibility of a sequel, to which Lalami responded thoughtfully, contemplating future narratives that might explore the broader societal impacts of the retention centers and the lives of those who opt out of the surveillance system.

Another audience member raised concerns about the plausibility of completely removing oneself from technological surveillance ([29:07]). Lalami reiterated that while individual actions are vital, collective efforts and systemic changes, such as a digital bill of rights, are essential to effectively combat surveillance overreach.

Themes of Trust and Reality

The novel challenges readers to question the reliability of their perceptions under constant surveillance. Lalami explains at [21:56], "When you are continually observed... you start to doubt yourself... Do I trust this subjective narrative or the objective data?" This tension between subjective experience and objective monitoring forms the crux of Sara's psychological struggle within Madison.

Conclusion

In this episode of All Of It, Laila Lalami provides a nuanced examination of The Dream Hotel, blending her personal experiences with speculative fiction to highlight pressing societal issues. Through in-depth discussions on gender, surveillance, language manipulation, and personal agency, Lalami invites listeners to reflect on the delicate balance between technological convenience and the preservation of individual freedoms. The conversation not only sheds light on the novel's intricate narrative but also resonates with broader concerns about the future of privacy and autonomy in an increasingly monitored world.

Notable Quotes

• Laila Lalami [02:04]: "We're taking the world of technological surveillance to its absurd limit... one of the most basic forms of control that we have in our society is sort of like this gender-based form of control, AKA the patriarchy."

• Laila Lalami [04:24]: "Picking a time that is about 20 years in the future would give me the ability to create a world that felt extremely real and plausible and frightening."

• Laila Lalami [10:37]: "Language is like one of the primary sites of our arguments about politics... To get people to accept that people are being detained for no crime, the language around it had to change."

• Laila Lalami [17:43]: "Do you own your body and do you own the rights to all of the data that it emits? To my mind, the question is very simple. Yes."

• Laila Lalami [28:56]: "I try to cut as much as I can to unnecessary technology... I think the information environment has gotten really... dangerous."

This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of the podcast episode, providing listeners with a thorough understanding of Laila Lalami's discussions about The Dream Hotel, its thematic concerns, and the author's perspectives on surveillance and personal autonomy.