Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: All Of It (WNYC)
Episode: Get Lit Preview: 'Kavalier and Clay' Becomes an Opera
Host: Alison Stewart
Guest: Mason Bates (Composer)
Date: September 8, 2025

This episode of "All Of It" previews the Metropolitan Opera’s new adaptation of Michael Chabon’s Pulitzer-winning novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, celebrating its 25th anniversary. Composer Mason Bates joins host Alison Stewart to discuss the process of transforming the sprawling, superhero-infused novel into an opera, exploring the creative and musical challenges encountered along the way. The conversation also previews the “Get Lit” Book Club event, where both Chabon and Bates will appear live with musical excerpts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis of the Opera Adaptation

• Origin of the idea: Mason Bates shares that the project began when Peter Gelb, the Met Opera’s general manager, asked him for ideas after hearing his previous opera, "The (R)evolution of Steve Jobs."
  • “It just so happened I was reading the Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay and felt that it would be the perfect opera for the Met. It was big, it was sprawling, but it also, at its core, is a very simple story of these two cousins trying to make enough money to save their family.” – Mason Bates (01:47-02:16)

2. Musical Worlds and Influences

• Blending musical styles: Bates outlines three musical “worlds” for the opera, each reflecting a central aspect of the novel:
  • Superhero Soundworld: Symphonic electronica, techno, and sound design representing the comic book escapism.
  • 1940s New York: Big band influences to evoke the era’s energy.
  • Occupied Prague: Darker, Eastern European sounds to capture historical weight.
• Quote: "I was imagining this kind of symphonic electronica with techno and sound design. But of course, you also have New York in the 1940s, so there's a lot of big band in the show. And we're cutting back to Prague during the occupation, so we're hearing this kind of darker, Eastern European space. So it's kind of like three different sound worlds." – Mason Bates (02:28-03:10)
• Audio Excerpts: Clips from the opera’s score, including "Open Your Eyes" and "The Escapist," demonstrate these musical ideas in action.

3. Adapting a Modern Classic to the Stage

• Influence of superhero media: The book pre-dated the current superhero-dominated pop culture landscape, but its influence is now omnipresent.
  • "When Michael wrote this novel in like, you know, 2,000, I mean, this was in front of all of this stuff we're living in now of the cinematic universe and DC Comics really exploding on the big screen. And, you know, this was kind of a high art treatment and novel form of comic book artists. Now we're living in it…" – Mason Bates (05:21-05:44)
• Compositional inspirations: Bates credits his background as a DJ, contemporary film composers (John Williams, Hans Zimmer), and classical influences like Wagner and Gershwin, blending new and old for the opera’s score.

4. Opera, Electronics, and Storytelling

• Balancing genres: Bates reflects on integrating electronic music without overpowering the traditional opera experience.
  • “You can't just full on, bring in, you know, four on the floor techno that you might spin at like a Detroit warehouse...it has to kind of evolve, have more trap doors and more surprises.” – Mason Bates (06:46-07:11)
• Literary adaptation challenges: Bates discusses condensing the novel’s multi-decade timeline and making literary devices like letters work dramatically onstage.
  • “...In our adaptation, you know, Joe doesn't...disappear for like 10 plus years. It's more for the period of the war. And there are also certain characters that we love in the novel, but we need to sort of see them on stage.” – Mason Bates (07:51-08:21)

5. Themes and Mysticism

• Jewish mysticism and authenticity: The conversation touches on the influence of Jewish mysticism in the novel, as well as the importance of authenticity and personal experience in adaptation.
  • “One of the interesting things that people ask about is the Jewish mysticism that Michael has woven throughout the story and how we have dealt with that...Gene can speak so movingly about that. It is this kind of almost magical realism that kind of underpins some elements of the story.” – Mason Bates (09:15-09:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge of adaptation:
  “We want to stay true to all the elements of this incredible novel that Michael has brought to life, but we have to find ways to adapt it and compress things when we're coming to the stage in order to stay faithful to it.” – Mason Bates (08:05-08:21)

• On musical influences:
  "I look at a composer like George Gershwin who took two things, jazz and classical music, and really kind of bumped up both of them and in an original way. And I look up to him as a composer who could mix two different kinds of music in a very substantive and authentic way." – Mason Bates (07:11-07:27)

Key Timestamps

• 00:09 — Alison Stewart introduces the episode and Book Club pick (The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay).
• 01:38 — Mason Bates joins the interview.
• 02:28 — Discussion of the opera’s three distinct musical sound worlds.
• 03:12 — Audio excerpt: "The Escapist"
• 05:21 — Bates reflects on superhero culture and musical inspiration.
• 06:46 — The challenge of balancing electronic music with opera conventions.
• 07:51 — Adapting the novel’s timeline and dramatic devices for the stage.
• 09:15 — Jewish mysticism in the story and the opera.

Conclusion

This episode offers an insightful peek into the ambitious operatic adaptation of The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay, highlighting Mason Bates’s boundary-pushing approach to composition and adaptation. Through lively discussion and evocative music samples, listeners gain a richer appreciation for the challenges and artistry involved in bringing a modern literary classic to the grand scale of the Metropolitan Opera.

Don’t miss the live “Get Lit” event at the New York Public Library on September 24th, featuring author Michael Chabon, librettist Gene Shear, and composer Mason Bates with special performances from the new opera.