Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Get Lit: S.A. Cosby's Dark Thriller 'King of Ashes'
Air Date: November 3, 2025
Guest: S.A. Cosby
Host: Alison Stewart
Key Theme: Examining the intersections of family, crime, Southern culture, and identity through the lens of S.A. Cosby’s latest novel, King of Ashes.

Episode Overview

In this episode of All Of It, host Alison Stewart sits down with acclaimed crime novelist S.A. Cosby to explore his new novel, King of Ashes. Chosen as the October selection for the Get Lit book club, the novel follows the Carruthers siblings as they struggle with generational trauma, family loyalty, and the corrosive shadow of organized crime in Southern Virginia. Through audience questions and candid discussion, Cosby and Stewart delve deep into the book’s themes, the significance of its setting, character construction, and larger cultural conversations about masculinity, trauma, and race.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Literary Influences

• Opening with Faulkner and Escobar (01:06)
  • S.A. Cosby: Quotes from Faulkner and Pablo Escobar set up the novel’s dual focus on Southern tradition and the truths revealed by crime.
  • Quote: “Crime tells us the truth about society… crime and crime fiction is the gospel of the dispossessed.” (S.A. Cosby, 01:24)

2. Setting & Southern Gothic Roots

• Jefferson Run, Virginia as Microcosm (02:12)
  • Based on Petersburg, VA, with its history of economic decline and gentrification.
  • Cosby: “The curse of Southern Gothic fiction is that the corruption of the land represents the corruption of the soul.” (S.A. Cosby, 03:12)

3. Naming — Symbolism and Meaning (03:47)

• Each sibling’s name has symbolic weight:
  • Roman: Late-stage Roman Empire—decaying from within.
  • Nevaeh: “Heaven” spelled backwards—caught in purgatory.
  • Dante: As in Dante’s Inferno—searching, not inherently bad, just lost.
  • Quote: “The names always mean something.” (S.A. Cosby, 04:36)

4. Funeral Industry & Empathy (05:15)

• Research & Personal Experience
  • Cosby worked in a funeral home, shaping his view of empathy and the cycle of grief.
  • Crematorium is both literal and metaphorical—fire as destruction and revelation.
  • Quote: “Fire burns away the false artifices… and once you burn it away, you see who people really are.” (S.A. Cosby, 06:26)

5. Evolution of the Novel (06:43)

• Original book concept was about estranged friends; pivoted to family drama driven by crime, influenced by mafia epics like The Godfather and Goodfellas.

6. Money, Morality, and Masculinity (08:54)

• Roman’s Relationship with Wealth

  • Money as both bridge and poison—enables but corrodes.
  • Quote: “Money is sort of like gasoline… you can use it to start a fire to warm yourself. You can also use to burn down your whole house.” (S.A. Cosby, 09:02)
  • Roman compartmentalizes morality, justifies increasingly dire actions by prioritizing family.

• Masculinity & Kink (10:44)

  • Roman’s use of a dominatrix introduced early to break traditional molds of masculinity, open a dialogue about sexual openness in the Black community.
  • Quote: “There are multiple types of masculinity. And no one’s definition is correct, and no one’s definition is wrong.” (S.A. Cosby, 11:54)

7. Dante — Accountability and Honesty (12:54)

• Dante, often despised by readers, doesn’t compartmentalize—he owns his mistakes, tells the family the truth.
• Cosby: “Dante is the one that speaks truth to power.” (S.A. Cosby, 13:09)

8. Street Smart versus Book Smart (14:38)

• Explored through Roman’s confrontations with gang members.
• Highlights a broader tension in the Black community between intellectualism and street survival.
• Quote: “For Roman… he learns very quickly that he has to be both.” (S.A. Cosby, 16:09)

9. The Book of Five Rings vs. The Art of War (17:02)

• Roman is drawn to the Book of Five Rings for its philosophy of thinking many steps ahead—strategy and long-term planning.

10. Nevaeh — The Burdened Caretaker (18:31)

• Nevaeh embodies the familiar trope of Black women holding families together; Cosby worked to avoid the “angry Black woman” stereotype.
• Quote: “Nevaeh’s never put her mask on. She’s always helped everybody else get theirs on.” (S.A. Cosby, 19:36)

11. Realism and the Consequences of Violence (20:23)

• Cosby avoids gratuitous violence; insists that violence in crime fiction should always have real consequences.
• Quote: “I want you to taste the copper in the air when someone gets shot in the face. I want you to feel those things because if you don’t, then you don’t realize how much danger the characters are in.” (S.A. Cosby, 21:21)

12. Family, Guilt, and Complicity (23:02)

• Roman is not a sociopath but someone adept at compartmentalizing guilt and pain for what he considers a greater cause—the family’s survival.
• Quote: “There’s a part of him that likes being the smartest guy in the room… for lack of a better word, gets off on that.” (S.A. Cosby, 23:21)

Audience Q&A Highlights

Conceptual Continuity & Cosby’s Shared Universe (24:47)

• Cosby’s works exist in the same world, with references and cameos connecting characters across novels.

Therapy, Trauma, and Taboo (26:08)

• Audience member Anaise points out the absence of therapy in the book; Cosby confirms it was intentional to reflect real taboos about mental health, especially in the Black community.
  • Quote: “If they would just talk to each other and go to therapy, this book’d be 30 pages… there is a taboo about admitting you have a psychological component that you need to deal with.” (S.A. Cosby, 26:28)

Jealousy’s Future (27:56)

• Cosby hints at possible sequels and further exploration of Jay "Jealousy"’s journey, but stresses her role as someone who accepts Roman as he is.

Sympathy for Dante (29:37)

• Dante’s flaws are not ingratitude but the result of trauma and self-loathing; audience pushback reflects the difficulty of loving messy, honest characters.

Room for Roman’s Growth? (31:31)

• Roman’s arrogance is a shield—acknowledging it would mean losing his edge, something he’s not prepared to risk.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Crime and crime fiction is the gospel of the dispossessed.” — S.A. Cosby, 01:31
• “Fire is a metaphor for both change and destruction… it burns away the false artifices.” — S.A. Cosby, 06:27
• “Money is the bridge from the person he used to be to the person he wants to be.” — S.A. Cosby, 09:02
• “Roman has a flexible morality when it comes to money.” — S.A. Cosby, 09:18
• “There are multiple types of masculinity… and no one's definition is correct, and no one's one definition is wrong.” — S.A. Cosby, 11:54
• “Dante is like the fool in King Lear. He’s the one person in the book who always tells the truth.” — S.A. Cosby, 13:09
• “The curse of Southern Gothic fiction is that the corruption of the land represents the corruption of the soul.” — S.A. Cosby, 03:12
• “Violence has consequences. Violence itself has consequences for both the people that mete it out and the people that receive it.” — S.A. Cosby, 20:39

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:06 — Opening quotes from Faulkner and Escobar
• 02:12 — The making of Jefferson Run, VA
• 03:47 — The meaning behind the siblings’ names
• 05:29 — Research and metaphor of the crematorium
• 08:54 — Roman’s relationship with money and morality
• 10:44 — Masculinity and sexual openness with Roman’s dominatrix visits
• 12:54 — Dante’s accountability, honesty, and reader perceptions
• 14:38 — Street smart vs. book smart: race, respect, survival
• 17:02 — Book of Five Rings vs. The Art of War
• 18:31 — Nevaeh’s burdens, survival, and breaking familial patterns
• 20:23 — Violence: reality and consequence in crime fiction
• 23:02 — Compartmentalization and the psychology of family protection
• 24:47 — Cosby’s literary universe
• 26:08 — Mental health, trauma, and cultural taboos around therapy
• 27:56 — The fate of Jealousy and relationships
• 29:37 — Challenging reader dislike of Dante; creating complex characters
• 31:31 — Roman’s arrogance and the limits of self-awareness

Conclusion

S.A. Cosby’s candid, humorous, and insightful conversation with Alison Stewart reveals the rich layers beneath King of Ashes—from its allusions to Southern history and literature to its deeply human exploration of trauma, masculinity, and the struggle to break generational cycles. Engaging directly with audience questions, Cosby roots his fiction in real social contexts, challenging readers to find empathy and truth in even the darkest of characters.