Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Gluten Free-Baking is Easier and Tastier Than You Think
Date: October 2, 2025
Host: Alison Stewart (A)
Guest: Aran Goyaga (B), Author of The Art of Gluten Free Bread
Podcast: WNYC’s All Of It

Overview

In this episode, Alison Stewart sits down with acclaimed Basque pastry chef and cookbook author Aran Goyaga to discuss her new book, The Art of Gluten Free Bread. The conversation explores the technical and emotional aspects of transitioning to gluten free baking, debunks myths about gluten free breads, and provides listeners with practical tips, ingredient guidance, and recipe inspiration. Listener calls and texts broaden the discussion to real-world challenges—from allergies and diet restrictions to bakery recommendations across NYC and beyond.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gluten’s Role in Baking and the Gluten-Free Challenge

• What Is Gluten?
  Aran explains that gluten is the protein in wheat and other grains that, when hydrated and kneaded, stretches to trap fermentation gases, allowing bread to rise.
  • "[Gluten] stretches... when you make bread and you ferment yeast, all the gases... get trapped by these elastic strands." (01:56, B)
• The Gluten-Free Dilemma:
  Without gluten, bakers must find ways to mimic its texture and structure using other ingredients.

2. Aran’s Personal Journey

• Diagnosis:
  In 2010, Aran discovered her gluten intolerance after health issues during pregnancy. Eliminating gluten led to immediate health improvements. (02:41, B)
• Emotional Perspective:
  Rather than despair, Aran embraced the challenge:
  • "I was actually kind of excited... it was a challenge and I was excited for it." (03:16, B)
• Supermarket and Bakery Landscape:
  Early in her journey, options were limited and largely unappetizing, but today the market has improved greatly. (06:41, B)

3. Common Misunderstandings About Gluten Free Bread

• Myth Busting:
  The notion that gluten-free bread is "dry, flavorless, like hockey pucks" is false. Gluten-free breads can be "tender, super flavorful, and nourishing." (03:51, B)
  • "If you’re a baker and love the art of baking, you should know all the other naturally gluten free flours that exist." (03:51, B)

4. Getting Started with Gluten-Free Baking

• Mindset:
  Aran encourages a mindset shift: "embrace, don't feel like you’re missing out." (05:21, B)
• Initial Investment:
  Expect to buy more ingredients—diverse flours and binders—but once you learn the basics, the process is simple.
  • "Once you understand this, everything else is actually quite simple." (05:21, B)
• Technique Tip:
  Without gluten, you don’t have to manipulate dough as much. Focus on "mixing, shaping, proofing, and baking." (05:21, B)
• Ingredient Consistency:
  Quality can vary across brands; experimentation and reading up is important. (05:21, B)

5. Nutrition & Mental Health

• On Disordered Eating:
  Aran shares her ongoing awareness around control and restriction, acknowledging that dietary focus can trigger "orthorexia-type" behaviors. But she strives to frame food as joyous and inclusive. (07:41, B)
  • "I don’t want people to feel deprived or haunted by food... I always wanted to make it joyous." (07:41, B)

6. Listeners Call In: Practical Questions

Low-Carb, High-Fiber, and Protein Breads (09:05-11:29)

• Advice:
  • All gluten-free recipes are high-fiber (binders like psyllium or flaxseed).
  • Buckwheat is a pseudo grain (actually a seed), and a great starting point.
  • Try combining carbs with higher-protein options to blunt glycemic impact.
  • Flatbreads (cassava/tigernut tortillas or with squash) are grain-free options.
  • "There are ways without having to give up bread altogether." (11:29, B)

Does Removing Gluten Impact Flavor? (11:35)

• Response:
  No loss of flavor—using flours like buckwheat, teff, oat, sorghum, or millet adds complexity versus bland all-purpose wheat flour. The crumb (texture) may differ (fewer big holes). (11:35, B)

Most Accessible Recipe for Home Bakers (Montclair Caller, 12:14-13:08)

• Tip:
  Flatbreads like pita are easy, low-effort, and versatile. (13:08, B)
  • "It doesn’t require a lot of technique… low-effort, high reward." (13:08, B)

On Gums & Starches (13:35-14:48)

• Which Gums:
  Xanthan gum is necessary for some pastries (like croissants), but avoid overuse. Methylcellulose, common in industrial products, is a byproduct of wood and best limited.
  • "It's not the best ingredient to eat every day... use sparingly, more for treats." (13:49, B)

7. Recipes, Holidays, & Technique

Streusel and Seasonal Bakes (15:02-16:30)

• Streusel Ratio:
  Simple: one part flour, one part sugar, one part butter by weight (can use rice flour, gluten-free blend, etc.) (15:02, B)
• Texture Described:
  The “spiced apple streusel brioche crown” is fluffy, filled with spiced apples, and topped with crunchy streusel. (15:46, B)

Croissants and Pizza Questions

• Gluten-Free Croissants:
  It’s possible but difficult—requires fermentation and lamination for stretch and flakiness. (18:55–19:20, B)
  • "People send me photos of their croissants all the time. Maybe you can try it…"
• Pizza Crust Issue:
  Chew/bounce comes from a high-hydration dough and the right balance of psyllium husk powder, not just added starches/gums. Watch for wheat starch, which is sometimes labeled "gluten free." (19:58, B)

Pantry Staples for Beginners (21:10)

• Starter Set:
  Tapioca starch, brown rice flour, and (if tolerated) almond flour.
  • "Especially tapioca starch and brown rice flour are sort of the basics..." (21:10, B)
  • Use a gluten free flour mix at first to keep things simple.

Using Sweet Rice Flour (22:05)

• Suggestion:
  Try a Dutch baby (puffy oven pancake) with sweet white rice flour and blueberries—chewy texture, crispy outside. (22:05, B)

8. Listener Resource Sharing and Local Recommendations

• NYC/Regional Bakeries:
  • Modern Bread and Bagel (Upper West Side & 14th Street), “best bagels in NYC” (18:23, F)
  • Plum Bakery (Montclair), 100% gluten free (12:16, G)
  • International tip: A GF bakery in Montreal with excellent croissants (23:46, H)

9. Restaurant Advice

• For Pizzerias (Pizza Box NYC):
  • Always use a dedicated pan and avoid cross-contamination with wheat doughs. (24:35, B)

10. Holiday Breads and Looking Forward

• Holiday Recipes:
  Whole holiday chapter: challahs, panettone, babka, semla, Spanish roscón.
  • "It's a full chapter dedicated to holiday breads that are sweet and also savory." (25:49, B)
• Hopes for the Future:
  Aran wants gluten-free recipes to “come out of the fad category” and be celebrated alongside classic baking.
  • "I hope… my book and other books live next to the other baking books… and that nobody feels deprived." (26:21, B)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On perception:
  "You can have really tender breads, super flavorful and nourishing. If you’re a baker and you actually love the art of baking, you should know all the other gluten free, naturally gluten free flours that exist out there..." — Aran Goyaga (03:51)
• On early GF options:
  "Bakery is non existent... anything you found in the supermarket was usually pretty, you know, frozen… They have a little bit more additives to extend shelf life." — Aran Goyaga (06:41)
• On disordered eating:
  "That part of control... is kind of at the root cause of an eating disorder or mental health, [it] doesn't go away. So I'm always having to keep myself in check. And… I really always wanted to make it joyous." — Aran Goyaga (07:41)
• On croissants:
  "There's one in my book and it's really delicious and actually people have already been sharing it with me... it's probably the hardest recipe in the book." — Aran Goyaga (18:55/19:19)
• On the future:
  "I want this book… to come out of this fad category or special diet category and… live next to the other baking books… that nobody feels deprived." — Aran Goyaga (26:21)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:46 | What is gluten & its importance in baking | | 02:41 | Aran’s diagnosis and health journey | | 03:51 | Myths about gluten-free bread | | 05:21 | Advice for transitioning to gluten-free baking | | 07:41 | Discussing eating disorders and food joy | | 09:05 | Listener question: Low-carb, high-protein breads | | 11:35 | Does removing gluten impact flavor? | | 13:08 | Most accessible home recipe: flatbreads | | 13:49 | Discussion about gums, xanthan gum, and industrial starches | | 15:02 | Streusel and fall recipes | | 18:55 | Gluten-free croissants: is it possible? | | 19:58 | How to avoid "crackery" pizza crust, and ingredient tips | | 21:10 | Pantry essentials for newbie GF bakers | | 22:05 | What to do with sweet rice flour | | 24:35 | Restaurant advice for GF pizza | | 25:49 | Holiday breads and “future hopes” for gluten-free baking | | 26:21 | On changing perceptions around gluten-free breads |

Tone & Takeaway

Spirited and practical, the episode aims to empower listeners—gluten-free or not—to see gluten free baking as creative, delicious, and accessible. Aran’s passion, technical guidance, and openness about the emotional aspects of dietary restrictions make the subject both inviting and deeply human.

"Think about all the things you can have and that are actually good for you." — Aran Goyaga (07:41)