Pauline Vermar (3:06)

So that's a very good question because really when you look at the show and at the publication and the work, the collection in general, it's astounding. It's really that same level as Dorothy Alang and her contemporaries, who she was very close with. But it seems like there are many reasons, but perhaps the trait of character that defined her the most was that she was really good at supporting her peers, but not really good at self promotion. And I would think that that's one of the elements that might explain why today she's less known than all of her friends, including Lange and many others. But when I look at her work, it reminds me so much of Gerda Taro, for instance, who is also one of the first female documentary photographers and photojournalists. And she has that same passion. So she's really equal in every single way to all the more famous photographers, women photographers of all time and male photographers, I should say her work is just as powerful and important as the work of the photo leak collective that she was part of or even Robert Capa, I mean, all of those incredible photographers of the 30s, 40s. And so the mission that we have is really to establish that connection between, you know, she was really part of that world.

Drew Sawyer (4:31)

Drew the exhibition points out that Kanaga was one of the first female staff photojournalists at a major paper in the States in 1915. She began with the San Francisco Chronicle when she was just 21. What were some of her most notable early assignments?

Drew Sawyer (4:47)

Yeah, well, you know, the. Another to go back to your first question, which is kind of related to this, is that a lot of her early work is lost. And this was partially a result of her moving back and forth between San Francisco and New York several times, many of them due to relationships with men, which kind of, you know, took priority over her career in many instances. So that's, you know, I mean, one of the things about especially the work from the teens and early 20s, outside of her more well known kind of portrait practice, there's very little that remains. But there are a few images that are quite powerful and I think those are mostly from when she moves to New York in the early 1920s for another job at a newspaper. And she really gets the beat of covering single mothers. So there's some, a couple famous images or her more well known images from this time period that show a mother with her children that, you know, again, to go back to Dorothea Lange, predate Dorothea Lange's famous migrant mother by over a decade and you can see the connection and influence that Kanaga had on Lange in terms of her thinking about composition in the way to really create an effective image in terms of communicating a content and a cause.

Drew Sawyer (6:06)

We're talking with Pauline Vermar and Drew Sawyer. They are curators. There's a new exhibition at the Brooklyn Museum called Consuelo, Catch the Spirit. It's on View through Aug. 3. The show was inspired by one of Kanaga's quotes. She said, when you make a photograph, it is very much a picture of your own self. That's the important thing. Most people try to be striking to catch the eye. I think the thing is not to catch the eye, but the spirit. Pauline, how do you think Kanaga catches the spirit in her pictures?

Pauline Vermar (6:40)

So what's interesting about Kanaga is the range of her entire work. She goes from documentaries, photojournalism, to put to portraits. And throughout all of these works, you can sense her presence. And I think that's because. And again, I would have loved to meet her. She passed away in 78, but she seemed like an incredibly warm human being. And what really transpired from her work is a spirit of collaboration. And this is how we introduced the presentation also, as to, you know, what kind of photographer was she, what kind of woman was she, and how did that show in her work? And this is what it is. She caught the spirit because she was close to the spirit. I feel like there was no real distance. She was really present and interested and engaged. And that's something that's quite unique, I would say. And that really is what makes all of those photographers that we named before, but that generation that was so political and so socially engaged, I think her presence in the work is fundamental.

Drew Sawyer (7:46)

Drew, I want to ask about her portraiture practice. How did portraiture factor into the overall scope of her work? And how would you describe it?

Drew Sawyer (7:56)

Yeah, so after she worked in photojournalism, she was connected with Alfred Stieglitz, and she really decided she wanted to become a photographer, artist. Right. Not just a photojournalist. But to do that, she kind of moved away from the photojournalism newspaper work. And so to support herself, she opened up a portrait studio, first in San Francisco, and then when she moved to New York, she continued to do that to kind of, again, support herself. So I think what Kanaga does that's really interesting is the way she synthesizes a kind of modernist portraiture practice with a social documentary lens. Right. So many of her portraits are around kind of social causes, whether that's geared towards Poverty and inequality, Again, thinking about the kind of single mothers or around racial justice during the 1920s and 1930s. And I think, again, it's, as Pauline was saying, right, kind of this idea of the catch the spirit is around her idea of collaboration, which is so central to portraiture. And you can see the degree to which, I mean, that's expressed in how her portraits are, right? They're really tight on people's faces, which convey a certain level of intimacy and proximity with her subjects.

Drew Sawyer (9:23)

Pauline, the exhibition makes the case that Consuelo Canaga's photography could also be quite experimental. What did she do with her camera that was visionary for the time?

Pauline Vermar (9:35)

Oh, she did. I mean, what you can see in the show really well and that Drew really beautifully did with his selection of the images, is how much she. How much pleasure she took in taking the photographs, but also making the objects, making the print in the darkroom and experimenting with the tonalities, what the photos looked like, if they were slightly cropped or if it's by darkening some zones. And you can see that she really had a very good eye. You know, some photographers are not really interested in printing. Cartier Bresson, for instance, had no interest in it. Interested in. But you can see in the show, comparing a few photographs of the same image, for instance. In fact, we have a section where we have five prints for one session, one subject. And it's extraordinary the way she was thinking. You can see the process of her, you know, the way she was thinking about what a person, in this case, a young woman is going to look like if she looks at her in this way or that way. And then in the darkroom, if she enhances this tone and crops this or that way.

Alison Stewart (10:46)

Drew. Consuelo. Consuelo Canaga, thank you. Was known for her photographs of African Americans from the Harlem Renaissance to the Civil Rights movement. What kind of images did she want to capture? What does she want people to understand about this time?

Drew Sawyer (11:05)

You know, I mean, I think at the end of the day, Kanaga was a real humanist, right? And so she wanted to convey the humanity of black Americans in particular, at a time when they were seen lesser than. And I think, again, her approach was really through portraiture rather than maybe other modes that were more typical during the 1930s, which would have been, you know, you think of the Photo League and you think of the Harlem document which went in. You know, these were largely white photographers, although many of them, of course, Jewish immigrants, who were also seen as racially other during the time. But still, nonetheless, they went into Harlem, photographed, you know, scenes of everyday life scene, interior scenes of people. But the reaction during that time towards a Harlem document was fairly critical. Right. Many people felt that it only reinforced what the broad public thought of when they thought of Harlem and African Americans in particular, which was an idea of poverty, right. And despair. And it didn't convey any of this sort of joy and other aspects of of course, that people, regardless of the circumstances in which they find themselves, might experience. And I think Kanaga really countered a lot of the images both that you one would find in sort of social documentary practices, but also just broadly in popular culture, especially kind of stereotypical images of black Americans. So she really sought at. At photographing the sort of humanity and really close up and intimate detail and the degree to which many people then eventually sought her out, including Langston Hughes, who when he was in the Bay area in the 1930s, you know, sought Kanaga out because she'd already kind of established herself as particularly adept at photographing black subjects, which, you know, and even again, through printing techniques that really captured the kind of skin which was not. Which was not easy for maybe some other white photographers.

Alison Stewart (13:10)

Pauline, she was billed as a. A media activist. First of all, what did that mean? And what were the social issues that.

Drew Sawyer (13:17)

Were important to her?

Pauline Vermar (13:19)

So that's where I would say Kanaga really joins Capa, you know, Robert Capa, Gerda Taro and Shim at the time in the 30s and the front popular in France. And it's interesting to see that it all happens at the same time. 35, 36, around the years. So Kanaga was very conscious of the power of photography in that sense of raising awareness to social issues, in this case in the 30s, the social workers movement. And she used photography and the photographs in magazines. She would. Her photos would be used in magazines supporting those struggles. And so in the same way as Capa and Tarot in France at the time of the Spanish Civil War, would use their photographs of the Spanish Civil War to raise awareness for the Republicans in Spain who were left to their own device. And I think that Kanaga was very much part of that movement and was very, very passionate about being part of that and being an essential part of it. In fact, one of the quotes that we use at the very end in that section about the workers movement is she said that she thought photography could change the world. And there was something, you really feel that this is exactly how she felt when she was making those portraits of workers. Some of them really, you know, close up portraits, other photos of Groups at protests, and she was very much part of the movement.

Drew Sawyer (14:48)

Now, Drew, you're curator of photography at the Whitney Museum, but you were formerly of the Brooklyn Museum, so I can ask you this. The Brooklyn Museum houses one of the largest collection of Consuelo Canzaga's work. 500 vintage prints, 2,500 negatives and other materials.

Alison Stewart (15:02)

How did the museum have so much.

Drew Sawyer (15:04)

Access to her material?

Drew Sawyer (15:06)

It's a great question. Yeah. So the museum actually put on a small kind of survey in the 1970s, towards the end of her life. And when she passed away, her widower offered to donate the materials to the museum. They had shown interest. Of course, 1970s was really a period of rediscovery, especially of broadly in the history of photography, but especially of women photographers. And Kanaga was amongst those, like Lange and many others, who were kind of finally given their due, especially in institutional context. And because the Brooklyn Museum had, you know, built a relationship with her, he offered to donate the negatives and the majority of her vintage prints at that time.

Alison Stewart (15:53)

Pauline, how did you discover Consuelo Canaga?

Pauline Vermar (15:57)

Well, in fact, funnily enough, you were commenting on the name earlier, Kanaga. For me, I thought Kanaga was Japanese when I first saw the name, and also because when I was researching recent, I was researching a project on. For a project on Japanese women photographers. And it so happened that a very famous Japanese woman photographer called Eiko Yamazawa had been her assistant in the 1930s, 40s. And so I really came to Kanaga's work through Japan. And so it was a beautiful connection. And in fact, in the exhibition, we have portraits of Kanaga by Yamazawa and of Yamazawa by Kanaga. And so that's when I started looking into the work. And then when I arrived at the Brooklyn Museum, I looked into the collection online and I was amazed by the amount of prints and the beauty of print, you know, and sometimes many prints for one image and the variants and the fact that Drew had been just before me selecting those prints and putting them into this beautiful show and catalog was really, for me, it was such a joy to be able. This is my first big project at the museum. And I thought this is just the perfect, perfect and such a timely show.

Alison Stewart (17:06)

The name of the exhibition is Consuelo Catch the Spirit. It's on view at the Brooklyn Museum through August 3rd. My guests have been Pauline Remar, Brooklyn Museum's Curator of photography. Andrew Sawyer, curator of photography at the Whitney Museum, formerly of the Brooklyn Museum. Thank you for your time today.

Pauline Vermar (17:23)

Thank you very much. I just wanted to add one thing back to your previous segment. Many, many great photographers were dyslexic students.

Alison Stewart (17:30)

Thank you.

Pauline Vermar (17:31)

I want to add that.

Alison Stewart (17:32)

Thank you so much. There'll be more, all of it after the break.

Progressive Insurance (17:37)

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