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- [00:10]
A
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In her latest album, musician Hannah Francis weaves powerful personal displays of stories about love and failure and grace. It's titled Nested in Tangles. It follows it's a follow up to her critically acclaimed 2024 album, Keeper of the shepherd, which is about her father's. A Pitchfork review states, Frances musical action mirrors the personal quest that makes Nested In Tangle so compelling. More than just a string of dazzling musical moves or private grievances gone public to outstrip the woe and grief of her upbringing to become more than such a life should allow. Nested in Tangles is out now. Hannah Francis is currently headlining a tour this fall. She also has has a show at the National Sawdust in Brooklyn next Friday, November 14th. But today she joins me in studio for a special performance. Hannah, did I say the name of your album right?
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B
Yes, you did.
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A
Say it one more time.
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B
Nested In Tangles.
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A
Love it. Thank you so much.
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B
Thank you so much, Alison.
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A
Let's start things off with a performance. What are you gonna play?
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B
This first song is called Falling from and Further.
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A
This is my favorite song.
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B
Right?
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C
Sandcastles Every day Built again and washed away when all came and passed through I never knew what I meant to you in diminishment the weight of a lacking trust Breathe the breakage fast and let it last to feel it it.
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All.
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The blinding lights on the highway Hurts shoulders narrow guide the brevity of.
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B
The time.
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Fear of everyone leaving Keeps me leaving first when my world grows smaller Falling from and further toward It's I lose track of my life I've lived Recall through sudden losses.
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B
It'S all.
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There and gone the sad lessons forgetting.
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D
More than this.
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C
I wish for time back More than this I wish for.
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A
Time.
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D
More than this Love.
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C
Feel it.
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D
All Sam.
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E
That was Hannah Francis from.
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A
Her album Nested in Tangles. Would you please introduce us to. Who else is here?
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E
After hearing you harmonize with the saxophone. That was cool.
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B
Yes. On woodwind, saxophone and clarinet, we have Sarah Claussen.
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E
Hi, Sarah.
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B
And we have Meredith Nesbitt on bass.
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E
Nice to meet you.
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B
Meredith as well. Both are Chicago based.
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E
All right.
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B
Musicians. Yeah.
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E
You wrote this album over 20, 23, 24 ish.
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B
Yeah.
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E
What was going on with you creatively during that period of time?
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B
Creatively, I think, yeah, I was wanting to expand from Keeper of the shepherd, which, yeah, was. Was a very expansive record, but, yeah, was trying to explore more instrumental music, more avant garde music, and I think that creatively influenced the album. And, yeah, so there's. There's new creative ventures on Nested and Tangles. But, yeah, personally, there was. It was a very intense time. And so that definitely fed into my. Yeah, the energy of this record, for sure.
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A
What.
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E
What were you wrestling with? What questions did you want to answer with what you were writing?
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B
I think I was processing a lot about my relationships in general. So, like, relationships with family. I think at the heart of this record. Well, maybe at the heart, it's like my relationship with myself. I think, as always, when we're processing relationships with others, it's so much reflection. And so, yeah, I was going through a lot with my family and some, like, resurfaced, like, conflict and dissonance. And so it was just. Yeah, processing that and how I think being raised in a very dysfunctional household and a dysfunctional family, how that has, like, impacted my. The way I move through the world and the way I've moved through relationships and the ways that I fear intimacy or have been working with my trust issues and trust of myself. And so it was just this huge confluence of very entangled experiences. And so, yeah, this metaphor of a nest and, like, the family and safety and then entanglement and how, like, you know, working through that and releasing yourself from a lot of patterns and pain and things like that. So huge questions, really.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Life's work, if you will.
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E
Sometimes when you. When you see those things in yourself, you look in the mirror and you've been through all those process and all that trauma. One thing people do is sometimes they hide, definitely. And other times they pick up their guitar or they write about it. When you sit down to write about it, how does that work? Is it the kind of thing where you just scribble out lyrics? Do you write songs? Do you have little pieces of music that are in your head?
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B
I think all of my songs definitely start on guitar. That kind of creates the foundation for everything else to kind of move on top. And so, yeah, I sit and tinker a lot on the guitar. And I think, especially when I'm depending on what I'm moving through, whether that's sorrow and. Or anxiety or. Yeah, that. That kind of informs what. What I'm. What I like. And so, like, when I'm working through, yeah, guitar parts, then, yeah, from there, I think a story kind of just arises where I'm just like. This really encapsulates this emotional experience. And how can I go deeper into that narratively? And then the lyrics start to. Kind of imagery starts to form, and then I just start Piecing things together. And then, yeah, I do lots of vocal melody work where I'm just kind of like, you know, what makes sense with phrasing? And it's kind of this, like. It's a very nebulous, magical process. I think anyone who's a songwriter, it's pretty hard to articulate, but it definitely.
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A
Feels like putting a puzzle together.
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B
Yeah, it does.
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A
Does this piece go? No, no, not exactly, but. Oh, this one's perfect.
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B
Totally. It does feel like that. And sometimes it's very, you know, emotional. And then I reach a point where it's just pretty intellectual, where I'm just like, this makes sense. And I kind of like, getting down to business of, like, what am I writing about? And then I get like, you know. Yeah, just write diaristically, but also. Yeah, metaphorically in lots of ways.
- [11:20]
A
There was this funny line in an interview with you, and you just kind of went by. You just said it quickly, and it was interesting. It said that you thought that you write based on the seasons. So what's happening with you this time of year? Is this touring time? Is this writing time? Is this sort of just being fallow and letting it all just chill out?
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B
That's a great question, I think. Yeah. What I've been experiencing for years now is that summer is obviously just a very active, extroverted time. And that's usually when I get really busy and festivals and tours start coming together and I travel a lot. And then in the fall, yeah, I start to slow down, which is not happening this year. And so I am feeling like a little bit of a push pull because I. Oh, interesting. I want to go into my slower state and my writing zone, but I kind of can't until January, which is just fine. But, yeah, January, the winter is really, like, just historically when I have done, like, all of my deepest writing and, like, yeah, I really, like, sit with myself in a deep way, like, every winter. And then, yeah, start to kind of come out in the spring, and then the summer is just usually pretty chaotic.
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A
And is that because you live in Vermont?
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B
I do live in Vermont, yeah. I think this. Yeah, the winter and spring are long in Vermont. Summer's pretty short, but, yeah, I do feel very connected to the land there. And I think living outside of the city, you really can connect with the cycles of the year much more than living in the city. And I've lived in many cities, and I struggled with my creative process when I lived in cities.
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A
Oh, where'd you live?
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B
I've lived in Brooklyn. I've Lived in the East Village in Manhattan. I've lived in Philadelphia, Chicago, and that's it. And then I lived in Northern California. Not a city, but. But you felt like the North Bay.
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A
You felt like Vermont really is your place.
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B
Yeah, definitely. Chicago's definitely a deep place of mine as well. But, yeah, it's a different. It's a different kind of place. It feeds a lot of, like, creative energy. All my best friends are there. I have a lot of family there. So I get a lot of those needs met. And then Vermont, I'm like, you know, I see like four people a week and the same four people every single week. And so it's a nice, small. It's a small world, which I really like. Yeah.
- [14:05]
A
I'm speaking with Hannah Francis. Her new album is called Nested in Tangles. She's here ahead of her national Sawdust show next Friday, November 14th. You think we might hear another song?
- [14:17]
B
Yes, let me really quick check my tuning.
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A
The tuning. The tuning.
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B
The tuning. The tuning, the tuning. But yes, we're gonna play a song called Steady in the Hand.
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E
All right.
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C
Ready?
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B
Yeah.
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C
Keep me in mind in my eyes you're the ego Seeing the blind child of the sun Leaning beyond my back is bending Finding the long light leading.
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B
The way.
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C
To you I own to step in my hand is you are to study in my head I wanna give the best of me to you the life rising through into my ar Wrapped around your shoulders folding again.
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B
Everything.
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C
I came to know from you rose through from the heart of the wound Hearing your laughter brings me down like anchorage You I owe to study in.
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D
The hand.
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C
You I owe to study in the hand. Now where were we so close then a barren field burned Buried in the clearing bruised n bleeding Nowhere were we so close to the child and wild branches beneath me the weight of leaving it takes living and losing to know what matters the loving shatters the edges and softens me again and the morning breaks me open open to know.
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B
Where.
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C
You are from here to study in the heavens you I o To study in the heaven you are old to standing you.
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E
We'll have more with Hannah Francis after a quick break. This is all of.
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A
You are listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. In studio with me is Hannah Francis. She just released her new album, Nested in Tangles. She's performing at national sawdust next Friday, November 14th. A lot of your albums have been self released. Yes.
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B
Yeah. Up until Keeper of the Shepherd.
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A
So what are steps in the process that you don't Think you would have known before had you not released your own albums before?
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B
Oh, there's. Well, I think there's a lot of backend work. There's just so much administrative work. And even though I'm working with a label now, it's a small label and I still have so much responsibility in the release and in the self promotion and in the marketing and editing videos and stuff like that. And so I feel like I've been doing that for a really long time. But yeah, I think it's really important to release your own music also. Yeah. To know how to talk about it and connect with it and present it. And I think sometimes to have that experience, I think, and practice, I think, has helped me a lot.
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A
What advice would you give to someone who is two steps behind where you are now?
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B
Hmm. I think as much as you can believe in your project, because no one will believe in your project more than you. And that's something that my manager tells me a lot. She's like, you have to advocate for yourself and no one will believe in this more than you. And so it's like you have to keep that, I don't know, the momentum and keep that fire burning, if that makes sense.
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A
That's really good advice, I think.
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B
I mean, that's just what's helped me, I think, because if you keep advocating for it, I mean, someone will care. People care. Yeah.
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A
You're on tour now. What do you like about performing these songs live?
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B
Oh, I think they're all challenging in their own way, and I think I feed off of that. I think the best part of playing my music is playing with other people. And so there's. It feels fulfilling to play solo and often a lot of my touring is solo. But it is so rewarding to realize these songs in their, like, fullest vision. And so I would say just the collaborative aspect of this record and in. I'm touring with a four piece and at National Sawdust next Friday, where 10 piece ensemble.
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A
Oh, 10 piece.
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B
So that's like. That is the most. I mean, that's the fullest vision I could possibly have of this. I mean, maybe I would also have like a four person choir, but you know, we're out of funding. But yeah, I think just playing with other people, giving other people creative freedom to realize this music and perform it. And I think that's the best. That's the best part of my life, just in general. Yeah.
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A
We're gonna hear one more song.
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E
What are we gonna hear?
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B
This is called Life's Work.
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C
How long does the love last here and then F past the point proven through abstraction through the absence of concern for the hollow avoidance revealing the door behind another door Revolving around the fragments.
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D
Of resentment Learning to trust in spite of it is large work Learning to trust in spite of it is lost.
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C
Or reconcile the child through hostile family rupture Is tradition born into dissonance Blamed for all the shadows of ocean remain blind to themselves Meaning in mirrors of.
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D
Deflected projections Learning to trust in spite of it is life's word Learning to trust in spite of it is life's work Learning to trust in spite of it is lives work.
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C
Blue herons flew over our house as it burned down Lingering lingering on and all that's left of it has left and gone nowhere Everywhere like edges of water I reach each last shoe and find my way.
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D
Through to the end Is Learning to trust in spite of it is life's word Learning to trust in spite of it is life's word Learning to trust in spine of it is life's work Learning to trust in spine of it is life's work Life's work.
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C
Last walk.
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D
Last work last.
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A
I've been speaking with vocalists and guitarist Hannah Francis, who just released a new album titled Nested in Tangles. She's a Show next Friday, November 14th at National Sawdust in Brooklyn. Thank you so much for being with us.
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B
Thank you so much for having me, Allison.
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A
And that is all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.
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F
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B
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