Loading summary
Transcript69 lines
- [00:00]
Progressive Insurance
All of it is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [00:24]
Hans Zimmer
Listener supported WNYC Studios.
- [00:37]
Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart and my next guest is the man behind the famous scores for the Lion King pilots of the Caribbean and more, including this sound. That is, of course, a piece of the score from the epic Dune. But this recording comes from a new concert film called Hans Zimmer and Diamond in the Desert. The movie was shot in Dubai and is filled with some of Zimmer's most famous compositions, set against conversations with an eclectic bunch of friends and collaborators from these films like Christopher Nolan from Inception, Billie Eilish and Phineas from no Time to Die, and Timothee Chalamet from Dune. You learn about his process and why a woman named Doris is very, very important to the music he makes. The film enters limited release on March 19th. I'm joining me live in studio Academy and Grammy award winner Hans Zimmer. It is nice to speak with you.
- [01:46]
Hans Zimmer
Thank you very much for having me. I think you undersold the limited release. I mean, I've heard of limited release, but we are like really, really limited. Two days and we're gone.
- [01:58]
Alison Stewart
That's it.
- [01:59]
Hans Zimmer
Well, three maybe.
- [02:00]
Unknown Host
All right.
- [02:01]
Alison Stewart
In the film, you talk about Doris and how she's very, very important to the music that you make for film. Could you tell us about Doris?
- [02:10]
Hans Zimmer
Do you want me to go and ruin my movie by telling you the story? Okay.
- [02:15]
Alison Stewart
I've heard a million times and it's really important.
- [02:17]
Hans Zimmer
Yeah, my directors know it. So when I was young, when I was a teenager and I was in a band traveling up and down in this sort of very. These very poor towns in the northern part of Eng. You know, it was always raining and inevitably there would be a woman walking to work with, you know, like sort of a gray raincoat on sort of an indetermined age with sort of indetermined bleached hair and two horrible sons by her side. She was obviously a single mother, but you could see she was doing her best and she was going to work and she was going to work hard. And I kept thinking about her and I kept thinking, so come the weekend when she has a choice, she can go to the pub, spend her money there, or she can go to the cinema and see a movie. And now if she sees a movie, I better have to have done a great job that makes it worth her while and gives her an experience because her life is really hard. And I just want to. I just want her to have those two hours of dreaming.
- [03:25]
Unknown Host
It makes you realize, like, what you do. People are playing. They're earning their money. They're spending their money. It's all they have. You hope to give them something.
- [03:36]
Hans Zimmer
No, absolutely. Look, Doris doesn't exist. But.
- [03:42]
Unknown Host
But she does.
- [03:43]
Hans Zimmer
But she does. But she does. And even now, after all these. I mean, God, I was in my. I was maybe 18 or 19, right? But. But even now, every time I write, I'm writing, you know, there comes a moment where I pause and I sort of look up into. I don't know. I don't know where I'm looking, But I'm just saying to myself, do you think Doris would like this? You know, So I check, you know, and it tells us a lot about what you do. You saw the film. You didn't see that. Actually, Doris has a credit on the film. Fame at last.
- [04:19]
Unknown Host
Listeners, do you have any questions for legendary composer Hans Zimmer? Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Do you want to hear about his creative process? What it' to work with directors on these films? Our number is 212-433-9692. You may call in, join us on the air, or you can text that number as well. In the documentary, Johnny Marr and Farrah Williams both appear, and they really wanted you to put this film together.
- [04:48]
Hans Zimmer
No, they didn't. I tell you what they did. They sat me down one day in my couch, and they sat a little too close, you know, so that I couldn't actually show up. And they said this. They said the following. They said, you know, eventually you have to start looking people in the eye in real time. You can't hide behind a screen for the rest of your life. You have to go and play live. And I kept going, oh, no, no, no, no. I got stage fright. And they go, yeah, so do we. So that shouldn't be stopping you, right? So for an hour, I went, no. And then they both sort of got up pretty disappointed. And just before Pharrell walked out, he said, I'm playing the Grammys this year. Do you want to play guitar for me? And I thought only an idiot would say no. And that's really where that started because it was fine. It was, you know, actually, it was fine because he kept his eye on me like, you know, like a mother, you know, he's such a good friend.
- [05:50]
Unknown Host
What convinced you that you could do it?
- [05:53]
Hans Zimmer
Nothing convinced me that I could do it. I did it. And people didn't throw things.
- [05:58]
Unknown Host
And people.
- [05:58]
Hans Zimmer
People seemed to actually enjoy it. And then we did a sort of a bigger show in London in a place that I absolutely loved, which was the Hammersmith. It's now called Hammersmith Apollo. It was called Hammersmith Odeon when I went to see the Stones and David Bowie and, you know, as a teenager there. So. No, no. And I tell you, the other thing is, and this is no exaggeration, I do really think I have the best band in the world at the moment. So it's. I sort of wanted to make the movie, to just. Just capture this moment in time where everybody's playing at their best. And it just seemed, you know, it just seemed impossible that it could get any better. But now that they have the film, they're, of course, all running around going, we can do this much.
- [06:52]
Unknown Host
The concert part of the film was filmed in Dubai. Why there? Who was your audience?
- [06:58]
Hans Zimmer
You know, Dubai is a strange place because it's so modern and at the same time so ancient. So, for instance, for Gladiator, we went out into a Bedouin camp and I insisted on goats. But. But the other thing was, it just felt like such a frivolous, fabulous, wonderful thing to do to take an orchestra and a choir out into the desert. And you have to realize our orchestra is actually quite special because our orchestra is from the Ukraine.
- [07:30]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [07:31]
Hans Zimmer
So our orchestra came with us a few times and then the war started and we sort of just managed to get them out, but they can't get back in, if you see what I mean. So I better play. Keep playing. No, but, you know, we sorted something out for them whereby they have homes now in Germany, which works really well. I mean, the German government was fantastic in helping us. But, you know, actually the whole band is, you know, just culturally so diverse. I mean, it's, you know, three girl drummers and stuff like that.
- [08:13]
Alison Stewart
That's very cool, by the way.
- [08:16]
Hans Zimmer
And they work it hard, right? You know. Yeah. You don't want to get them crossed.
- [08:22]
Alison Stewart
Let's hear a little bit from the film. This is a clip of Pirates of the Caribbean section, one of your most famous compositions. We can talk about it on the other side. This is Hans Zimme.
- [09:53]
Unknown Host
And the crowd goes wild and the crowd goes wild.
- [09:56]
Hans Zimmer
Yeah. So you took actually the very end of that concert piece because I was trying to do a trick. I was trying to do Pirates and not play the main theme until the very end. Because I knew the audience knew that theme and they were going, is he crazy? He's not playing. He's not playing.
- [10:15]
Unknown Host
It's still not playing it.
- [10:16]
Hans Zimmer
He's still not playing it. So there was that level of anticipation. I mean, here's the thing. I mean, we, you know, when I set out to do this, you know, lots of experts told me that the audience's attention span has really diminished into like nothingness. And if I play anything long, it won't work. I just didn't believe that. I didn't believe people were that, I don't know, you know, were that unmovable. So, for instance, Pirates is a 14 minute piece. The Dark Knight, I think, is 22 minutes. You know, I mean, they're all pretty chunky. I mean, you know, Dune and we do quite a bit of Dune is none of them are short.
- [11:03]
Unknown Host
Look, but people will be there for them. They will be there.
- [11:06]
Hans Zimmer
Yes, but you can't do Gladiator and, you know, in one minute.
- [11:11]
Unknown Host
Let's take a call. Michael is calling in from Forest Hills. Hi, Michael, thank you so much for making the time to call today. You're on the air.
- [11:19]
Michael
Hi. Comment and a question. My favorite Hans Zimmer tracks were from the movie Rain man came out in the late 80s. And I remember sitting in the theater, you know, while the credits were rolling at the end, for 10 minutes just to listen the music. And then I bought a new car a couple of years later and that became my, my reference disc. You know, I would just, just play it and listen to the percussion and the treble and the bass and, you know, I just love the music. Even now I play it. My question is, where did you get inspired, you know, for that, that incredible soundtrack?
- [12:00]
Hans Zimmer
Actually, that's. It's sort of a funny story because I was working in London and I had done a small. I mean, I was a complete unknown. You know, I was even more complete unknown than Timothy Chalamet in the film by the same name. I was a complete unknown, but I had done one small movie in England called A World Apart. And Barry Levinson's wife Diana saw it in London because they were there promoting Good Morning Vietnam. And she said, that's the music for your. For your next movie. And she bought him the cd. She could have just said it, but she actually went to a record shop and bought him the cd. So the problem was he didn't have my phone number, but somebody had given him the address to my little studio. So on a rainy London night, there was a knock on the door in this really dangerous alley. You know, well, when you first start your studio, it's not gonna be in, like, some amazing place, this knock on the door and the door. And I open the door and I'm going, yeah. And this guy standing out there, and he's going, hello. Actually, he goes, hi, I'm Barry Levinson. Pause, because I'm looking at him quizzically, and he goes, I'm a movie director. And I say, you and my mom both, right? No. He goes, no, no, no, really. And as he says this, I sort of look behind him, and there are not one, but two ginormous limousines there. And of course, we don't really have those in London except for famous Hollywood directors that come in. So I believe him, and I call him in, and we start talking about Rain Man. We talk about the way I work with computers and all this crazy stuff. And he said, would I like to come to Los Angeles and do the film? Would I ever? But I tried to not look incredibly excited, like a little dog yapping around. So me and my chief engineer, Big Al from the East End of London, off we went. And we set up in Barry's office because we didn't know anybody. We didn't know any studios or anything. So that whole score that seems to sound beautiful with great bass and great drums was all done by myself in Barry Levinson's. In Barry Levinson's office, which was actually sort of great because he was right there. And we could. It's a tricky film to get the sort of the. The metal off because it ends sadly, but you don't want the audience to go out sadly. So together we sort of shaped the music and the film, you know, like, a little bit at the time. So that was a. A really good way of making a film which other people in town sort of couldn't make because they didn't have synthesizers and computers and ridiculous things they have to go play, you know? The director had to wait until there was a big orchestra in front of them before he said that he hated the music. With me, it was much easier to say, I hate it.
- [15:05]
Alison Stewart
My guest is Hans Zimmer. We'll have more after a quick break. This is all of It. You're listening to all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Hans Zimmerman. We're talking about his new concert film, Hans Zimmer. And diamond in the Desert. In between these giant orchestral pieces are conversations you have with various people.
- [15:36]
Hans Zimmer
Are they giant orchestral pieces? Well, I suppose I go a little bit over the top here.
- [15:41]
Alison Stewart
There you have Timothee Chalamet, you have Christopher Nolan, you have Phineas, Billie Eilish. First of all, why were these people important to you to have in the film?
- [15:52]
Hans Zimmer
Because we had a great working relationship, like Timmy Timothy. Very few people know this, but I've done two movies with him, actually now three. But he was an Interstellar. He was the young boy in Interstellar. So we go back, as it were. You know, people like Jerry Bruckheimer have done. I don't count that many movies. Who else we got there? Well, obviously Pharrell and Johnny Marr, you know, so they are very, very naughty boys. I mean, honestly, I mean, they just. They just kicked me out of. Out of that studio. They ruined a perfectly good film composer. You know, I mean. I mean, Johnny goes in the movie. Wow, you've become a real road dog. You know, I think he's right, you know, tragic, but there it is.
- [16:48]
Alison Stewart
What did you want people to get from those conversations?
- [16:52]
Hans Zimmer
Actually, it wasn't so much me. Sorry. Paul Dugdale, who directed the movie, suggested the conversations, and I thought it was just the worst idea, and I fought him on it. But then it seemed like a really good opportunity to get together with some of my friends.
- [17:09]
Alison Stewart
Why did you fight him on it?
- [17:11]
Hans Zimmer
Well, because I didn't know how that would work. You know, I just didn't know. You know, sometimes it's really. You know, here was the funny thing. I've made a lot more movies than Paul, but Paul knew a lot better how to make this movie, so I would absolutely acquiesce to him. And once the conversation started going and once that stuff started coming. Coming in, it really showed something about me, I think, as much as about them. And I sort of liked that. I like that the whole. I like that the virtuoso musicians somehow expose themselves to the world through their music, through their playing. I mean, you know, because it comes from their heart, it comes from their soul, and it comes from their technique. With me, less so. I'm a composer, which means I write impossible parts that other people have to suffer through. And I don't play that well, so I don't. I don't know, I might express myself somewhat well, but really, you know, those chats, I think, are very illuminating, especially because nobody held back.
- [18:27]
Alison Stewart
Nobody. We've got a piece for Phineas Finneas. Asked you in the film, how you decided what instruments you were going to play live. Let's listen.
- [18:37]
Phineas
How do you decide what you want to play on each song live? Because you played most of everything often when you recorded it, right? So you cherry pick, you go, this was the most fun part to play. I'm gonna play guitar. What did you like? How did you choose what instrument you were gonna play?
- [18:50]
Hans Zimmer
Pretty much that. Pretty much that.
- [18:53]
Alison Stewart
Pretty much that.
- [18:54]
Hans Zimmer
Yeah, exactly. And usually the guitar, because it's more fun than anything else, you know, which.
- [18:59]
Alison Stewart
Instruments do you find really just fun? Do you have a good time playing?
- [19:05]
Hans Zimmer
I'll go. Pirates, for instance, has the banjo in it. Right. And you know the definition of a gentleman? A gentleman is somebody who can play the banjo but refrains from doing so. And so I just love, you know, like Sherlock Holmes banjo. And I just. I just love playing the instruments that are loathed, hated, and people have disdain for them.
- [19:31]
Alison Stewart
Very funny. Let's talk to Michael, who is calling in from Bridgewater, New York. Hi, Michael, thank you so much for calling wnyc. You're on the air.
- [19:41]
Michael
Yes, thank you. The question I have for Hans is, have you ever felt stifled by a director or a producer or anyone on the production team based on creative differences, where you believe the music should go in this direction and they have a difference, and how do you handle that?
- [20:03]
Hans Zimmer
It's sort of a little bit. Has appeared in the past, very, very rarely. Because most directors know that if they start talking music to me or if they try to explain the music they want in their movie as opposed to explaining the movie to me, it's probably not going to work out all that well, because my job is to do the thing that they can't even imagine, because if they could imagine it, they could just get a secretary to do it. They could just get somebody in and do it. So disagree? Yeah, disagreements. Absolutely disagreements. You know, but, you know, and sometimes they go on for a week or two. But, you know, but funny enough, all those movies, they still seem to have music. So I think. I think I was convinced. You see, here's the thing. Music is indefensible. You play somebody a piece of music and it either touches them or it doesn't. So that's it. I mean, we were working on one movie and we had to go to a preview, which is basically where we show it to a bunch of people who tell us how rotten our movie is and what we need to change and fix. And on the way there, it was a short plane ride. Luckily, the producer was sitting opposite me and telling me how I was ruining the movie for 45 minutes. He found new ways of telling me how I was ruining the movie with the music. And we get there and I'm feeling a little apprehension and movie is actually playing really well. And then we get to the bit that he really singled out as, you know, the death of the movie. There's a lady sitting next to me. I have no idea who she is, and she turns to me and she goes, that's genius. And all I could say is tell him, you know, which of course means nothing. But afterwards, you know, they take numbers and they ask the audience, da, da, da, da, what did you think of the movie? And they really drilled down on the music because they really wanted to prove that the movie was bad and that the music was bad and hurting the movie. And lo and behold, the audience sort of loved it. And the more they drilled down on it, the more the audience loved it. So on the way back, we sat opposite each other again, and I said, look, I happy to change it. I'm happy to change everything. And he goes, don't touch it. Don't do a thing. So this is not a. This is a cynical story until you actually get how it works. If you have three people, two producers and a director sitting in a room, there's a very different atmosphere than when you have 600 people who have nothing, nothing to gain or nothing at stake. They're just there to enjoy themselves. So I don't believe anything until I've previewed it and found out how the room felt. I don't even need to hear the question answers, you know, if they want to go and hang you, you can.
- [23:08]
Unknown Host
When you were in the room.
- [23:10]
Hans Zimmer
Yeah.
- [23:11]
Unknown Host
And you heard something, someone say, I'm not so sure about that. You still like the piece, but. But I'm not so sure about that. Would you go back and revisit it?
- [23:20]
Hans Zimmer
Yeah, I constantly revisit things. You know, I'm not so sure about it means it didn't touch them fully emotionally, you know, I am not. So I am absolutely sure about it, and I hate it. That makes me proud.
- [23:39]
Alison Stewart
I know exactly what you mean. As you were putting together the concert list for this film, how did you know what you wanted to start with? How'd you know what you wanted to end with?
- [23:52]
Hans Zimmer
I knew what I wanted to end with. Oh, God, am I going to tell you this. I ended with the last piece. My publicist, Ronny Chasen, heard great New Yorker and a wonderful lady, and she was murdered in Los Angeles.
- [24:12]
Alison Stewart
I'm so sorry.
- [24:13]
Hans Zimmer
I was really, like, stupid as well. You know, somebody was trying to rob her. And the last piece she heard was that piece. So I always pray that for her, you know. So that's my goodbye to Ronnie. And the first piece is a little bit from Dune that, you know, you have some amazing singers here in Brooklyn. Loa Kotler sings, and she has an incredible courage because she sings in front of the audience for four minutes by herself before a machinery of drums and guitars unleashes on you. And the rest of the song, it's just sort of, you know, there's a sort of a democratic thing going on where people go, yes, I want to play this. No, I want to play this. I didn't want to play Lion King. Lion King's a children's movie, you know. And what I didn't realize is, you know, so many young people in my band, they were all going, get over yourself, Zimmer.
- [25:14]
Alison Stewart
We want Lion King.
- [25:15]
Hans Zimmer
That's the music of my youth, you know. So, yes, I love that. But it's great because I want it to be. I want it to be things that they want to play.
- [25:30]
Alison Stewart
The film is called Hans Zimmer and Diamond in the Desert. It will have a limited Screening Starting on March 19th. Hans, it was such a pleasure to have you.
- [25:40]
Hans Zimmer
Thank you for having me.
- [25:41]
Alison Stewart
I think we're going to go out on something from Interstellar, and that's all of it. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.
- [27:13]
Ira Flatow
This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.