Podcast Summary: All Of It with Alison Stewart

Episode: Harris Dickinson's Directorial Debut 'Urchin'
Date: October 10, 2025

Overview

In this episode, host Alison Stewart sits down with writer/director/actor Harris Dickinson and lead actor Frank Delane to discuss Dickinson’s debut film Urchin. The conversation dives into the film’s sensitive portrayal of homelessness and addiction, the intentions behind its realism, the collaborative process between director and actor, and the film’s journey from script to Cannes acclaim. Both guests offer personal insights into the creative process, the challenges on set, and the hope that audiences come away with new empathy for the vulnerable.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis and Development of Urchin

• Long Creative Gestation:
  • Harris Dickinson spent six years developing the story, building it from the idea of a man “falling between the cracks" of society (02:28).
  • Script development was a collaboration with organizations and people with lived experience in homelessness, prison reform, and probation. This ensured authenticity—"It really felt like a big collaboration... to really try and push it into the best place possible." (Dickinson, 02:38)

Character and Performance

• Mike, a Non-Typical Lead:

  • Frank Delane was drawn to Mike for being “a really broad character" and because the film tackles "big, meaty themes." (Delane, 03:39)
  • Both emphasized the importance of showing Mike’s complexity, shaped by trauma, but also dignity and humor.
  • "There is no generic homeless person. You know, it's all of us. We could all find ourselves in that position, believe it or not." (Delane, 05:42)

• Preparation and Realism:

  • Both actors participated in research with real organizations, reinforcing that “there is no simple solution to complex problems.” (Delane, 05:42)
  • Dickinson was intent not to “sanitize” nor “victimize” Mike, instead aiming for a balance of realism and empathy:
    • "It was showing the truth of it, trying to depict it accurately, but allowing humor as well and allowing levity... the mikes of this world deserve that as well." (Dickinson, 07:08)

Directorial Choices and Challenges

• Being an Actor’s Director:

  • Delane celebrated Dickinson's actorly background: "It was just like having this extra support network... Harris is an actor’s director, which I think is becoming a rarer thing." (Delane, 08:37)
  • Dickinson’s hands-on approach extended even to minor roles, ensuring space for exploration.

• Tangible Realities of Filming:

  • Dickinson cited costume choices as surprisingly pivotal:
    • “Which jacket Mike wore? ... You commit to that and then you say, well, he's wearing that throughout the whole film..." (Dickinson, 10:15)
  • Logistical hurdles included frequent night shoots, lost locations, and 36 distinct settings, but also exciting energy given a 28-day shooting window (19:08–19:52).

Storytelling Moments & Symbolism

• Scenes of Dignity:

  • A standout moment is a thrift-shop fitting, which underscores Mike’s pride in simple pleasures.
    • “The story that we wanted to tell in that moment was... dignity, and feeling good about yourself... the experience of going into a shop and finding a nice jumper and really feeling yourself..." (Delane, 11:51)
  • Dickinson notes the idealism present even in bleak circumstances: “There’s an idealistic element to it... we're on Savile Row fitting a suit, you know, and there's something quite sweet about that.” (Dickinson, 13:08)

• Mike’s Backstory:

  • His history as an adopted child is purposefully left open, prompting viewers to contemplate his past without over-explanation.
  • Dickinson’s father, a social worker with experience in the field, was a resource in shaping these aspects (14:01–14:25).
  • Frank Delane’s real mother voices Mike’s mother in a phone call scene in the film (14:25).

Thematic Depth

• Cycle of Desperation and Hope:

  • The film’s opening—Mike robbing a kind stranger—embodies the at-times unavoidable cycle of desperation.
    • “Desperation has its own language that maybe we’re not all tapped into if we’re not desperate.” (Delane, 16:13)
  • Mike’s ambitions (owning a limousine service) are “overly ambitious”—a symbol of both hope and the limits imposed by his circumstances (17:25–17:53).

• Moments of Triumph:

  • A night out with coworkers is a “happiest night” for Mike, feeling clean, included, and “whole again” even if fleeting (18:27).

Visual and Stylistic Choices

• Magical Realism & Surrealism:
  • Dickinson made deliberate departures from gritty realism with “trippy” moments—the “resistance to absolute reality,” illustrating how people cope with trauma (20:59).
    • “I always had an interest in that kind of storytelling... magical realism, more surreal elements, escapist cinema, fairy tale, fables, folklore.” (Dickinson, 20:59)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Empathy and Universality:

  • "There is no generic homeless person. You know, it's all of us. We could all find ourselves in that position, believe it or not." (Delane, 05:42)
  • "Mike is you, Mike is me... There is no other person. There is no homeless person. You know, there is no refugee. It's you. It's me." (Delane, 22:38)

• On Acting and Directing:

  • "Harris is an actor’s director, which I think is becoming a rarer thing... just really holding space for the creative process and for exploration." (Delane, 08:37)

• On The Collaborative Approach:

  • "It really felt like a big collaboration between lots of different people that had lived experience with it as well." (Dickinson, 02:38)

• On the Film's Purpose:

  • "If this film can stand in resistance to that impulse... and humanize another person who maybe some people don’t give the time of day to... I think that is a massive achievement." (Delane, 22:38)

Important Timestamps

• 00:07–03:39: Introduction to Harris, Frank, and the premise of Urchin
• 04:24: Insights from working with organizations on authentic storytelling
• 05:42: Frank Delane on the universality of homelessness
• 07:08: Dickinson on balancing realism, dignity, and levity
• 08:37: Frank praises Dickinson's actor-focused directorial approach
• 10:15: Discussion of on-set decisions and costumes
• 11:51: Thrift shop scene and symbolism of clothes
• 13:08–13:39: The idealism within bleak settings
• 14:01–14:57: Mike’s backstory and the inclusion of Frank's real mother
• 16:13: Frank describes Mike’s motivations and desperation
• 17:05: Mike’s dreams and ambitions
• 18:27: Mike’s happiest moments, fleeting triumph
• 19:08–19:52: 28-day shoot, logistical challenges, and creative energy
• 20:59: Magical realism and escapist sequences
• 22:38: Hopes for audience impact and empathy

Tone & Style

Throughout the conversation, the tone is empathetic, reflective, and occasionally humorous. The guests are candid about the creative struggles, passionate about telling an honest story, and hopeful for the film’s impact on public perception of homelessness.

Closing Thoughts

This episode of All Of It offers an intimate look at the making of Urchin: a film that forgoes easy answers in favor of nuance and empathy. Listeners get a strong sense of both the emotional and practical work behind the film, the depth of collaboration required, and the filmmakers’ hope to provoke understanding for people experiencing homelessness. Both Dickinson and Delane emphasize that Mike is not an “other,” but a reflection of all of us—a human being worthy of dignity, humor, and hope.

Listen from [04:24] for insights on research for realism, or from [22:38] for the most resonant statements about the film’s message on empathy and shared humanity.