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- [00:01]
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Alison Stewart
This is all of it on wnyc. I'm Alison Stewart. Romance novels are surging in popularity after a few TV and film adaptations like Heated Rivalry. Based on a book series, it captivated audiences. Just a small suggestion from Mayor Mamdani during the snowstorm led to a 529% increase in downloads for the second book in the series through the New York Public Library. This is just one of the latest novels reaching new audiences. In 2020 it was the Bridgerton series. In 2022 it was the Summer I Turned Pretty series. And this year it's the dark romance Weathering Heights with a new film adaptation being released this weekend. In turn, NYPL just released a list of best romance books of 2026 for adults and Book Riot composed a list of the best romance books of the cent US Understand why more people are seeking out these stories. I am here with a romance novel enthusiasts. Leah Koch is the owner of the Ripped Bodice Bookstore which she co founded with her sister Bia Hodgeskoch. I hope I'm saying her name right back in 2016. Leah welcome to all of it. Thank you so much listeners. Are you a frequent romance reader? How did you fall in love with the genre? What's your favorite novel and why? What would you recommend to someone who wants to read more love stories? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC maybe you read the Heated Rivalry series. Did you read the books beforehand or did you see the show first? Our Phone number is 2124-3396-9221-2433. WNYC print sales for romance books in the US have more than doubled in the last four, five years. Why do you think there has been this interest in this genre?
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Leah Koch
I attribute it to a few different factors. The pandemic, the rise of TikTok, and I hope I'm not bumming everybody out, but the worse things get in the real world, the better romance sales get.
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Alison Stewart
I have to admit that like you want something that's going to end on a good note when you're reading in a really difficult times.
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Leah Koch
Yeah you know, we. I've been doing this for about 10 years now. It'll be our 10th anniversary of our LA store next month. And we used to see a lot more sort of spikes and dips in terms of sales going up and down. And these days, honestly, it's. We see a lot less of that. It's pretty much riding great sales for us, which I don't know what that says about the state of the world, but it's good for us.
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Alison Stewart
A lot of TV series and films been. Have been used for inspirations for these kinds of texts over the years. How did novels capture romance in words that we may not have seen on screen or we may not have seen on screen yet?
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Leah Koch
You know, with a romance novel, you're able to be in somebody's head in a way that you can't by nature of the medium of film. And that's something that I've always loved about romance novels and just books in general is you get a much, much deeper understanding of a character's inner emotional life and feelings. And it's. It can be hard to translate that to the screen. Some people do it really well, but I think that's kind of the superpower of books.
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Alison Stewart
How do fans of series of novels.
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Host/Interviewer
Typically respond when they see this series brought to the masses, brought to the greater.
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Alison Stewart
The greater good?
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Leah Koch
I think it depends on how good a job they do. I think if you do a great job, then. Then those OG fans are thrilled. Unfortunately, sometimes if you don't do such a good job, maybe they're. They're not as excited. But I think it's. It's kind of like the, you know, I knew the band before they Were.
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Alison Stewart
Cool kind of phenomenon.
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Leah Koch
So I think a lot of people feel like, you know, they've been there since the beginning. But I. The great thing about, about romance is there's always room for growth and we're always happy to welcome new fans.
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Host/Interviewer
Let's talk to Heather, who's calling in from Harlem. Hi, Heather, thanks for making the time to call all of it.
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Caller Heather/Elizabeth
Hi.
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Caller Heather
I've actually read romance novels since I was a teenager. And back then I really got interested in historical romance particularly. And over the last, probably 20 years or so, I'm mostly reading Regency romance, which I particularly like, and it's very popular, as Bridgerton can attest. But the thing that I wanted to mention about it is, you know, people have this idea that reading romance is just about sex. And, you know, a lot of romance novels are very steamy, and that can be an appealing aspect, but what I really love about them is how interior they tend to be. Most of the best ones I've read are really talking about, like, the character development that's required for the couple to get together. You know, usually there's, there might be some external aspects that are keeping them apart, but most of the issues are about, like, personal growth, which I think is really fascinating and makes for really deep and interesting reading.
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Host/Interviewer
Heather, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Elizabeth from Manhattan. Hi, Elizabeth, you're on the air.
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Caller Heather/Elizabeth
Oh, hello. I'm so excited to have heard this show. I started reading romance novels while I was going through a divorce and I read a number every week, really also into the Regency and era. And men written by women are amazing men, which is wonderful. But I have really had this question. I'm so excited because I've been wanting to go into the rift bodice and ask this question. Are there any stories, any romantic stories that we have even in our collective consciousness that don't continue to forward patriarchal ideas? Because I have not found them even where the heroines are really, you know, very feminist or in some way, you know, independent? I feel like we're still. I don't feel like we're looking at a large enough idea of romance.
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Alison Stewart
Let's ask Leah. What do you think about that, Leah?
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Leah Koch
I think that's a great question. And also, please come in and ask us whatever you want.
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Alison Stewart
I.
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Leah Koch
In my opinion, if you're looking for less patriarchal stories, you need to go beyond a male female pairing, which is not to say you can't find them for those, but it's pretty hard. So I would take a look at some of the amazing queer romances that are out there and in the historical genre. Highly recommend checking out Cat Sebastian as well as Alexis hall has a book called A Lady for a Duke, which I just love. And when you're thinking about relationships that are outside of a strict gender sexuality binary, you tend to see less reliance on the rigidity of patriarchal norms. So I would, I would start with those two authors and, and see where you get.
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Alison Stewart
My guest is Leah Koch. She is the Ripped Body Bookstore co founder and owner. We are talking about romance novels, listeners. We'd like to hear from you as well. Are you a frequent romance reader? How did you become interested in the gen? What's your favorite novel and why? Our number is 2124-3396-9221-2433 wnyc. Okay, I'm gonna take the next four minutes and talk about heated rivalry. Okay. And I want you.
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Leah Koch
That sounds great.
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Alison Stewart
All right. So in the last two months, people have been talking about heated rivalry. It's sort of this long term love story between two professional hockey players. One who is somewhat closeted and the other one sleeps with whoever he wants. Let's listen to a clip from. From the show. This follows Shane Hollander and Ilya Rozanov who play for opposing teams, we should say. And in this scene, they're discussing what their relationship means.
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Actor from Heated Rivalry
It's not just being gay, it's you, it's this. Being gay is one thing, but this, your arch rival is another thing. That's right. There's a secret. I know that. But last time, and for the record, I am sorry about last time. Okay. I'm sorry I freaked out. But before that it was nice. It was. And it felt like we were something. We can't be something Hollander. Would you want to be if we could. We can't.
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Host/Interviewer
That is based on the 2018 Game Changer series. What is unique about Heated Rivalry?
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Leah Koch
It's a fantastic book. I have been a fan of this book for a long time, long before it was TV show. The show. I'm one of the, you know, I knew the band before it was cool people. And I think there's a lot of things. I think sports romance is really popular in general and I think it kind of goes back to what Elizabeth was saying. It sort of allows for a more in depth exploration of masculinity and patriarchal structures. And I think in particular with gay romance, in this case two men, you are interacting with male emotions on a level that is pretty rare in the media in general. And it also has just a depth of yearning which I think people really respond to and be, as you said, it's a pretty long term relationship. It's going on over years and years and years, so you really get to see it develop and change.
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Host/Interviewer
Author Rachel Reed's Game Changer series features six novels and only two of them actually deal with the romance between Hollander and Ilya. Another gay couple is featured on the TV show Scott Hunter and Kip Grady. They make an appearance. Tell us how Scott and Kip in the series offer a different perspective on romance.
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Leah Koch
Yeah. So Scott and Kip's book, Scott is a professional hockey player and Kip works at a smoothie shop and that's how they meet. He's a student. So it's a very different dynamic in terms of Shane and Ilya are arch rivals, both professional players. It would be a Huge, huge scandal beyond just, you know, being an out NHL player. So Scott and Kip, like don't really have as much of that pressure. However, Scott is the mild spoilers ahead. Scott is the first NHL player in this universe to come out, so sort of faces a different pressure in that way.
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Host/Interviewer
All right, let's get on to some more recommendations from you. You have a book here called the Kennedy Rule by Casey Carmichael. This is another gay hockey romance. What's different about it?
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Leah Koch
I really enjoyed this book a couple of months ago. Very appropriate for the time of year given that the Olympics. I think the interesting thing with when a book like Heated Rivalry sort of goes mainstream and people get really excited about it is people like it for a lot of different reasons. And so if you, you know, are very focused and you want another gay hockey romance, like this is the direction I would go. But there's also people who like it solely for the sports aspect or solely for the queer aspect or solely because they haven't read romance before and they really like the emotions of it.
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Host/Interviewer
It's worth noting that that book and and the Game Changers books are written by women.
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Leah Koch
Yeah.
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Alison Stewart
Why do you think female authors are interested in exploring romance between two men?
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Leah Koch
You know, I can't speak for an author and I don't write books and there are wonderful mm romances written by men, which I'll get to in a second. But I think that I'm guessing writers are interested in romance and emotion between all kinds of people. I also think that it's important to note that especially for women of all sexualities, part of the appeal of reading a book about two men is that there's no threat of violence against women. It which I know is a little dark, but it's true. It's true. But I mentioned Alexis hall before. Fantastic writer of gay romance in all genres, historical, contemporary, fantasy. I would also recommend the work of Austin Chant. And there are just a pretty much endless amount of titles and authors to get excited about.
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Alison Stewart
We're talking to Leah Koch. She is the Ripped Bodice Bookstore co founder and owner. We're talking about romance novels. We want to hear from you as well. Are you a frequent romance reader? How did you become interested and what is your favorite Novel and why? 2124-339692-21243 wnyc I wanted to ask you about Alex Martin. She's a USA Today best selling author. I think she's a mom of four. She was married to a guy who played for the NFL for While. What intrigues you about her writing?
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Leah Koch
Yeah, I, I, it's just the authenticity, you know, Alexa, her husband played for the NFL for many years, and so I don't know that much about football, to be honest with you, but there's sort of a level of trust that I have in terms of she knows what she's talking about. And she has a great series of football romances that I definitely recommend.
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Alison Stewart
Yeah, she's got a book published last.
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Host/Interviewer
Year called how to Sell a Romance. Another coming out this spring called by the Bootstraps. Do you have a favorite of hers?
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Leah Koch
I think it is that football series, how to Sell a Romance is great. It's just not, you know, the sports aspect of it. And so I, I think I'd go with the, the football series.
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Host/Interviewer
This text says, with economic freedom for women came the realization that we could opt out of dissatisfying relationships. And the romance and satisfaction that come.
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Alison Stewart
From romance or from smut or from.
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Host/Interviewer
Whatever you want to call it is far superior to most heterosexual relationships I've been in. Until reality can beat fantasy, why on.
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Alison Stewart
Earth would we settle for any more? This is a good point.
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Host/Interviewer
Let's go to another recommendations of yours. It's called, Let me get this right. Cleat Cute by Meryl Wilsner.
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Leah Koch
Yes, that. I love Meryl's books, all of them. I am a big women's soccer fan myself and so I love this book. This is a sapphic romance, so two women who play for the U.S. women's National Soccer team. And it's, it's just wonderful. Highly recommend. Um, generally, Meryl's books tend to be a little bit more on the spicy side, so keep that in mind. But if you're, if you're a women's sports fan, I think you would really like that one.
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Host/Interviewer
What's the tone of the books?
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Leah Koch
This one specifically? Yeah, it's, it's a good mix of that sort of rom com feel, but there's certainly dramatic elements there. There's discussions about sort of dealing with fame as an athlete as well as different aspects of neurodivergence. So I think it strikes, it strikes a really good mix.
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Host/Interviewer
Another book on the list is Playing for Keeps. Who is Playing for Keeps by?
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Leah Koch
That's Alexandria Bellefleur, who also writes fantastic Sapphic romances. And this one I think people will really respond to because it's Taylor and Travis, except it's not them, it's their publicists. So there's a fictional, a fictional football player and there's a fictional pop Star and they start dating and they're two respective publicists get involved with each other. So I think it has that really fun, lots of current references. Obviously it's fake. It's not the real Taylor Travis, but maybe it's a very fun imagining of what that could be like.
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Host/Interviewer
It's interesting. How does sort of the workplace fit into this novel? You're talking about them being publicists. Do we get to see behind the scenes?
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Leah Koch
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's all about, you know, them managing crisis after crisis, you know, interviews and you know, when she, the fake Taylor Swift shows up at one of his football games. So it's, it's very much a semi realistic peek behind the curtain in terms of sort of being around that world.
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Host/Interviewer
And finally, you mentioned this earlier, but I want to get to it. Alexis hall, tell us about their books.
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Leah Koch
Yes. Heather was mentioning Loving a lot of historical romances. And Alexis has a book called A Lady for a Duke, which is a trans historical romance which is so, so beautiful. It's a little bit more on the serious tone. But I think for me, when I love reading queer romances that really embrace the tropes and conventions of the genre, don't run away from them and really make them part of a queer story. There's also, if you're a fan of the Great British Bake Off, Alexis also has a GBBO inspired contemporary series about people who are on a fake version of the Great British Bake Off.
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Host/Interviewer
We got a lot of recommendations from Leah Koch. She is the co founder and owner of the Ripped Bodice Bookstore. Thanks for walking us through some romantic novels.
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Leah Koch
Absolutely, my pleasure. Happy Galentine's Day and Happy Valentine's Day tomorrow.
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Alison Stewart
Coming up, we got a little Mardi Gras preview for you. We'll hear some New Orleans jazz live in studio with musician Julie Banko and her new album Euphonic Gumbo. That's next after the news.
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